[Super Smash Land] - Final Build 1.1 Online

[Dantarion]

Write a emulator for the NES sound hardware, then create something that can take files from famitracker and play them back in real time, and then let your SFX play through the same thing!

Thats what Capcom did for Mega Man 9 and 10, if you pay attention you can actually hear a music channel drop out during SFX

 

[libertyernie]

Thats what Capcom did for Mega Man 9 and 10, if you pay attention you can actually hear a music channel drop out during SFX

Whoa. They really did stick to the classics, didn't they?

 

[4nace]

Hey Dantarion.

While that is a fun idea and all, its not exactly what we are going for. We are going for a Gameboy presentation and therefore are not picking up all the limitations. The game itself actually plays at 4x the size of the gameboy screen, but all the assets are scaled up. That makes the engine smoother.

The sound we figured the same thing. I know I could program in a way to mimic channel limitations, but we decided that it would not be worth the time and headaches when it would probably just sound better to not do it. As for the sound effects, I can assure you that they sound authentic because Inversephase is taking much care in creating songs and effects with Gameboy Limitations.

If I do get the game ported to flash, I may look into coding a channel system there.

Also, there are some Kirby Sprites floating around at the site- Check them out now!
http://www.danfornace.com/?page_id=99

-4nace

 

[4nace]

Demo v1 released today!

Check the first post for information.

Download
Video

Leave me feedback!

 

[Segtendo]

Saw the video. I am very impressed with you. I'm lovin' your sound guy lol

 

[Jaklub]

Nice. I like the remix of SSB character select music.

I found Kirby much easier to play than Mario, though.

 

[Tinnitus]

The game runs very well and as far as I've seen, no bugs!
Controls took a little getting used too at first, even my custom ones, but I got the hang of it.

This is probably the most well put together Smash Bros fangame on its first demo, engine is smooth, really good music, title screen, menu, and even a result screen!

I can't wait to play more characters and stages, props to you 4nace, and I hope to see more great things from you even after you finish Smash Land.

Now I'm gonna go play it more, keep up the good work.

 

[TommoPuppy]

That looks great, but I can't help but nitpick about the Peach's Castle stage having layers. The GB can handle scrolling like the with the moving platform (see Megaman 4 GB) but it doesn't actually have background layers, so it wouldn't be possible to have the clouds in the background behind that moving platform.

But i'm just being technical. It looks pretty sweet. I'll play it in a sec.

EDIT: It's awesome. Mario feels klunky.

 

[toddtj]

I have thought of palette swapping in GM. I believe it's possible, but it would be slow as hell.

Perhaps I'm missing something because I don't see why you would bother with sincere palette swapping. All of the color schemes you presented in your recent picture look like they could be achieved by color blending a gray-scaled sprite.

In-game ones are ok. Scrolling (at least horizontal) would be nice too.

I kinda feel like the lack of scrolling compliments the Gameboy atmosphere.

 

[Jaklub]

Perhaps I'm missing something because I don't see why you would bother with sincere palette swapping. All of the color schemes you presented in your recent picture look like they could be achieved by color blending a gray-scaled sprite.

From what I remember, most of them, not all. You are replying to a pretty old post, you know.

I kinda feel like the lack of scrolling compliments the Gameboy atmosphere.

I feel the opposite. Slow, horizontal only scrolling should make it. Also, percent numbers being centered, "Press Enter" and note about Game Maker really ruin the mood.

It's a good fangame, regardless.

edit: also, the middle button position in menu needs a little fix.

 

[PurDi]

Would there be a way to port this to an actual GB through 'some means?' That'd be freaking sweet!

Btw, The demo is GREAT! Only addition was maybe more hitstun at lower damages so that combos don't get interrupted. But I'm loving Mario, Kirby just has killing problems it seems.

Thanks for being AWESOME :D

EDIT
Glitch (maybe?): The AI Kirby's will never suck you in, they'll press b but they'll never eat you. That and they stay in rock until it ends, even if they're dieing from it.

 

[4nace]

@Tinnitus

Thanks alot! I wanted to make sure the game was pretty bug-free before releasing it. I've found a few since then, but nothing too major.

@toddtj

Yeah, I think that going with black and white and then overlaying colors might actually be what i do. I would just put an option in the options menu where you can change the color of the overlay.

@Jaklub

Yeah I do break the no-scrolling rule in some cases, but I kinda like how each stage has a static sky. I might play with it a bit in later stages, but for now I like the composition.

@PurDi
Yeah, Kirby has a bit of trouble killing, but downsmash really is a bit overpowered haha. And I agree that a bit more hitstun could help at lower percentages. I am going to tweak the way it scales i think.


@ Everyone

Thanks alot for the feedback. I plan on adding some of the kind words to my website when i get a chance. Now i'll update you on what I am working on now:


I knew I was going to add options in the next demo, but after getting some feedback, I plan on adding some options to the select screen. After playing brawl competitively, I know that is annoying to wait for people to change controls at the beginning of each match, especially since 90% of the people only turn tap jump off. So here is a mockup for the select screen changes.

What tap jump will do is register up as a jump if you press and release it in the designated time. It will be off by default but easily changeable by just pressing your button at the select screen.

Also, as you can see, I plan on adding some difficulty levels to the cpus.


And before I develop new characters, I was planning on fixing up the engine a bit and making options.

Planned engine changes:
*You can press down to fast fall in the air. Tap and release it quickly to begin fastfall.
*Possibly adding this tap for fast fall to fall through platforms. (Will have an even shorter time needed to press and release it than fast-falling)
*Adding ducking by pressing and holding the down key. Now you might be able to duck under those pesky fireballs.
*Changing the way getting hit again works. Right now each attack makes you invulnerable for a short period of time so that attack cannot hit again. However in 4 player matches this means some strong attacks could miss someone who just got hurt. I plan on changing it so the player knows which attack hit them so they can get hit by a different attack directly after.
*Possibly adding ledge grabbing.
*Possibly speeding up all attacks by around 5-10%
*Changing the screenshake to get rid of rotate and adding it to more effects

Planned Options Menu:
* Music on/off
* SFX on/off
* Player 1 - 4 control changing in-game.
* Possibly Palette Swapping Color


Haven't really thought up any other options yet, but let me know if there are anything you think I need.

I also haven't decided if I will release a demo with these changes or just wait to release more characters and stages with these updates =P

Also, I've already drawn the next stage. Just gotta code it now =).


-Dan

 

[Luxor]

I was impressed, quite honestly. The game turned out quite professional and I'm really enjoying it. Keep on coming with the updates, you're doing a great job!

 

[Jaklub]

Yeah I do break the no-scrolling rule in some cases, but I kinda like how each stage has a static sky. I might play with it a bit in later stages, but for now I like the composition.

Well, I didn't mean moving sky. I meant stages a little bigger than GB resolution (only in horizontal).

 

[DeeNinjaa]

I know this is replying to an old situation, but:
Have Mario, Kirby, Pikachu, and someone else as your default 4, each with one stage already available. Put those stages in the top row. For their second stages, make them unlockable by either:
1) Win 10 matches in Vs. Mode with that character.
2) Finish Arcade/Classic Mode with that character.

Have the second stages in the bottom row, under their respective stages.

For the 2(I'm guessing we have 6 total?) unlockable characters, give each one stage, both in the last column of the SSS.
Also make their stages unlockable by winning a Vs. Match with that character.


How does all that sound? It makes for 6 characters and 10 stages. Pretty balanced, IMO.

And if possible, please do one of the following:
1) Add a GBColor option in the options menu, unlockable by playing 150 Vs. Matches AND beating Arcade/Classic Mode with all characters. It gives the game actual color instead of tint overlays.
2)Make a seperate version of SSL for actual color.

Just pitchin' some ideas.

 

[Luxor]

Played a bit more today. I have a few small issues that I'd like to mention.

1. Tapping attack with Kirby makes you begin to Inhale but doesn't finish it- related to why AI Kirby's never fully inhale you. I think tapping Inhale should progress far enough into the animation where you can actually swallow them.
2. Kirby's Final Cutter seems kind of useless. It could be cool if the hits comboed into each other better, but right now they kind of knock the opponent out so they can hit you in the endlag. Design-wise, I much prefer Mario's Up air, since it fills a nice role as a combo ender/breaker/ kill move at high percents and altitudes.
3. I wish Mario's Forward air came out a bit faster or had a bigger hitbox, but that's just me. I kind of feel like it's hard to hit with. I'd also love it if Kirby's Forward air had more knockback and hitstun- when you land in the middle of it your opponent lands right next to you and gets a free hit.
4. Lower trajectories for moves all around to make combos easier would be GREAT.
5. By far my biggest request: More hitstun globally. As it is, it seems like you get hit for every time you hit your opponent- Mario might dash attack, then Kirby Hammers in the endlag, to which Mario might Dash attack again, etc. More hitstun would let these moves be safe on hit and let people pull off a few good combos. Right now the only "true" inescapable combo I've found is short hop back air--> land--> repeat as Kirby, which felt awesome to pull off on the computer.

I've also been thinking that it would be interesting if every character had a sidestep dodge or spotdodge to give them a second of invincibility while on the ground. An airdodge would be good too; short hop--> airdodge could even take the place of a spotdodge if you're lazy at coding (lol). Not a request, but something you might want to play around with.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

Also, for the roster, I was thinking this:
Mario
Kirby
Pikachu
Link
DK(Unlockable)
Meta Knight(Unlockable)

I mean, MK has some really unique moves he can use. His tornado, teleport, infinite slashing thingy(his "jab"), and drill rush for starters.

As for unlock methods, I was thinking:
DK: Clear Arcade Mode on medium difficulty or higher.
Meta Knight: Win 40 Vs. matches with Kirby.


One last thing: After unlocking all characters and stages, a new mode will open up under Arcade: Endless/Survival. Think All-Star, but opponents are randomly chosen, and it never ends. The rest area appears every 5 fights, containing only 1 heart container.

...Am I pushing the whole "Smash at bare minimum" thing? I think I am.

 

[4nace]

@Jaklub

Hmmm... I hadn't thought about that. I knew I didn't want zooming, but just scrolling could work. Maybe I'll try it out and see how it feels. It would make it so you could actually see some of the sweet offstage kills. And I could expand the horizontal blast zones a bit.

@DeeNinja

I was waiting for someone to come in and discuss further development and how to handle unlocking and characters and whatnot =).

For the unlocking that seems like a pretty good system. I will probably alternate the numbers making some a bit harder and some a bit easier, but using both vs. matches and arcade matches is definitely a good idea.

As for the stages, that was my plan to have 2 for each character, but i wasn't sure about giving the secret characters stages. I was actually thinking of doing more gameboy inspired stages such as a Tetris stage (still thinking about how that would work haha)

For the gameboy color idea, I really do like it and I had been pondering if I would add color. Having it as an unlock would be pretty awesome, but so would having a second release with color. Both would require new sprites, but it might be easier to just re-release a color version after the game is complete.

Which brings us to the roster. For the 4 starters, I was actually planning on having the 4 that you suggest. Those seem like the best fit for a Gameboy Smash. For the 2 secrets, I was originally hoping to do 2 characters not from the Smash Series that had a strong showing on either the gameboy or handheld systems in general. I already have 1 idea that I am pretty sure I am going to go with. I came up with the idea based around a unique mechanic i think everyone will enjoy (that is, if i can balance it)

As for the second secret character, I have no idea what I could go with. I want to keep it first-party I am pretty sure, but some of the most memorable GB games featured f characters like Megaman and Bomberman =P.

DK is a good option for the 6th spot, but I worry his size may render him unplayable in four player matches. I also don't want to do a character that is hardly recognizable. I will go out and say it right now that my first idea for a secret character is from a series represented by the first starters.

As for the mode idea. I think its brilliant. I just planned on having arcade, but having an endless mode where you push for a high score would be pretty awesome. Especially if I can get it to show up on my website =) It would give my game lasting ability in both single and multiplayer. Something that no smash game has really accomplished to date (imo). Could you please elaborate on how you think the rest area would go? Would it keep returning even after you use the heart? Would you have to go there? What would it look like? Similar to melee's all star mode?

Overall, very good contributions and stuff that I have had trouble coming up with so I could always use that help. I am also struggling with some unique ideas for stages inspired by the series. I have already drawn another n64 stage for the next demo, but I haven't even tried to tackle an original stage yet. So please share if you have any. I would like them to have something unique but doesn't render the stage unplayable like some Brawl stages.

@Luxor

Thanks for playtesting! You've obviously taken some time out to write down these bugs/insights and I really appreciate it!

1.) Hmm.. I hadn't noticed that you can't inhale if you just tap it. I assume there was one frame where you could absorb him since it has to pass that frame it normally lingers on. I will check it out. As for the AI sucking with it (pun intended), I do plan on fixing both that and brick in the next demo. The problem is that it requires a little hardcoding in the AI part and I just haven't gotten around to it. I will probably check it out after tackling the next character.

2.) I actually was playing with the way getting hit works (see earlier post) so now if you manage to get the second hit (the downward hit) of cutter off then you should get the projectile guaranteed. I am thinking of adding a bit more vertical knockback to this projectile to make it a kill option at higher percents.

3.) For the forward air, I kinda like that it is the slowest aerial in the game (so far at least) but i do think the hitbox could be a bit larger. It really is about timing it since there are no shields. For the hammer, that move is hard to balance since you can kill with the last few frames of it pretty early if you get the spike off. I do agree that it is hard to combo after, maybe i will up the amount of speed players get from it after getting hit.

4. and 5.) Lower trajectories as in angle? As in not as vertical upward? Or lower as in lower the speed so they don't move as fast away? Right now, I don't want the game to be completely combos because then some characters (faster characters really) could break really easily. I might try to get the characters done with little comboing and then go back in and try to balance it with some cool combos. As the game stands, Kirby can actually combo pretty well as low percents. Also fireball combos into many different attacks for Mario at higher percentages.

I might up the hitstun a little bit, but i also think that i will down how it scales then, I hate it when you get hit by an attack and can't do anything for a while (which is what happens in my game when you are in hitstun, much like smash64)

As for dodging, I don't plan on adding another button, so i'm not sure how that would work (Down+Jump) I am also not sure if it is needed at this point, but it may be worth exploring. I do agree that the game feels like pretty much all spacing and knowing your hitboxes right now, which isn't a bad thing persay. But having a dodge would add more to the prediction and punishing gameplay of smash.

Thanks alot for all the feedback. I have posted the game at 4 forums now and smashboards is definitely the most useful in terms of analyzing the gameplay and coming up with ideas!

-Dan

 

[Luxor]

Yeah, I meant lower angle for trajectory. It's pretty hard to combo when you have to jump-->double jump just to get in range, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I like where this is going though- everyone I've shared the game with agrees that it's pretty awesome.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

First off, dodging is easy. Tap down twice, quickly(like, within half a second). If Tap Jump is off, you can add a jump dodge as well(tap up twice quickly while standing).

As for the rest area: Yes, you'd return to it, even after you've used the heart. It gives you a nice break from all the fighting. Let's give it a simple appearence: A flat platform going from edge to edge of the screen, with a white/black checkerboard pattern. You spawn on the left, with the heart in the middle and the teleporter on the right. Use a nighttime sky, filled with stars. For it's BGM, go for a more relaxed version of the title screen music.

You could add one last unlockable pertaining to endless mode:
1) Win 10 battles in Endless Mode to unlock Vs. Rules under the options menu.
This should include:
Damage Ratio(1.0 default)
Items ON/OFF(ON by default)
Stock Time Limit ON/OFF(ON sets a 10-min timer on stock matches. OFF by default)
Sudden Death ON/OFF(if off, No Contest will occur if the battle ends in a draw(IE: Time runs out and all players have a score of 0). ON by default)

As for DK: There's a reason unlockable characters are unlockable. They're usually different from the rest of the cast, and giving DK a bigger size can achieve that. Powerful, yet easier to hit. But since he's easier to hit, make him harder to send flying.


I hope that clears stuff up.


And I'm all for the Endless Mode leaderboards idea.

OH! I almost forgot!
List of Items:
Beam Sword
Maxim Tomato
Homerun Bat
Bob-omb
Koopa Shell
Lolipop(The invincibility item in Kirby games. After all, Kirby debuted on the GB, didn't he?)

 

[Luxor]

I had an idea about blocking or whatever- crouch cancelling, Melee-style! You're already implementing ducking, so it shouldn't be too hard. Just throwing that out there.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

Um, what's crouch cancelling ._.

 

[Luxor]

*facepalm*

In Melee and Smash 64, if you get hit while crouching you suffer drastically reduced knockback and hitstun, and kind of slide along the ground if the attack is weak. So if player 1 runs up and does a dash attack but player 2 was crouching, player 2 will take full damage but be able to punish player 1 with a move of their choice, usually a Dsmash. It was in earlier smash games but pretty much removed from Brawl. Try looking for it on youtube.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXFkF5KrZMw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[4nace]

@Luxor

Hmmm... crouch cancelling eh? It is a good idea. I'm still a bit confused on how it would work other than lowering trajectory. I am not quite grasping the down smash part. If you think you could elaborate on its exact effects in Smash Land context then that would be awesome!

Either way, it sounds like a great idea and definitely something to look into!

@DeeNinja
Rest area sounds like a good idea.
Which comes to the questions?
What stage(s)?
Are they single fights or 1 vs 3 or free for all?
Normal damage ratio or more like the All star matches from melee?

As for the unlocking settings, they all sound good and would definitely fit into the versus settings. I plan on having the menu come up when you click the word stock instead of the arrows.

Which comes to items. I am still on the fence about them, but I am 75% sure I don't want to include items. At least not very many if i do. I might make it so you can unlock items mode, but I wouldn't have very many items still. Thats my feelings currently. But if i did do items i would keep it very short like your list =P

-4nace

 

[DeeNinjaa]

1. All stages
2. Randomized, but you will always be on your own
3. Gradually increasing with each rest area. I.E. Match 1, you can kill around 40-50%, Match 6, around 70-80%, match 11, 100-110%, and so on.

I never thought of making items unlockable. It could be like, every 20 Vs. matches or so, you get a new item? That would gradually unlock them, still keeping the list short 'n' sweet.
Or, you could just have Items OFF by default, and allow them to be switched on once you unlock Vs. Settings.

One last thing: Did GB games always run in 60fps? It looks weird seeing a game like SSL running that smoothly.

 

[TommoPuppy]

Yeah most/all 2D games from those eras ran at 60fps. Maybe you're just used to playing them on the actual systems where the screens have lower refresh rates, causing some ghosting.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

Yeah, the ghosting really irks me :/
I'll get used to it eventually, I suppose.

 

[Xane]

Well, I guess you delivered.
I knew it had the biggest potential due to it's simplistic assets and small roster.
And in my opinion, you did it right!

It has aspects that really feel professional.
I like the audio, even tho it doesn't sound like 100% could be made on the gameboy hardware, it's pretty damn close!
Just two minor issues; some sound effects are louder than others (Mario's coin SFX for example, needs it's volume to be lowered a little) and the music isn't looping correctly (Starts all over from the beginning when looping), you should make use of looping points.

You need to polish the physics engine a bit; Remember - the physics engine is the most important thing in a Smash game, so you really want to work on it until it's perfect.
Right now it feels a bit too floaty, and try to make use of freezing frames to pronounce some hard hitting attacks.

But even as of now, it already feels and sounds like the most professional fan Smash game to date.
If I had time, I'd be willing to help you translate your game and ideas into a real programming language.

 

[4nace]

Thanks alot guys.

@DeeNinja

I'll get back to plotting out the Endless Mode soon, but all your ideas are solid!

@Xane

Yeah, I am still working on some of the sound stuff, but I'll tweak the coins now. As for the physics. I am try to get it closer to what I want. I am adding fast falling now, but I am still trying to decide if I would rather just make characters less floaty or do fast falling to handle the floatyness issue.

Also, my sound guy has told me that he knows someone that is willing to write about the game, so I am adding some polish to the engine right now!

Please let me know if you recognized any little things in this demo that could be fixed. Most of the comments I have gotten, I have addressed. I even added crouch cancelling and I must say, it works pretty darn well haha. I will also have a new stage out in this polish demo, which should be out by tomorrow so please give me feedback tonight if you have a chance.

I am changing some hitboxes now from things i feel are broken.

-4nace

 

[Luxor]

I am changing some hitboxes now from things i feel are broken.

KIRBY'S BAIR MY GOODNESS

wall of pain on computers all dai

As far as crouch cancelling, I think it would be nice if, when hit with something that doesn't send you straight up, you'd slide back a bit on the ground while taking full damage, and at the end of a small timeframe you can move freely to punish the opponent in their endlag. Just like in Melee- if you don't have access to Melee so you could feel what it's like, I can't really describe it as well.

And if you added directional influence I'd love you forever.

 

[4nace]

Polish demo is getting pushed back to a monday release. Which could should be better because it will be more awesome.

Also, all videos for the game have been taken down for the re-release.

Basically, the demo on monday will be replacing Demo v1.0. We're starting fresh again!

-4nace

 

[DeeNinjaa]

Can we expect new content, or just polished physics?

 

[4nace]

A new stage! And tap-jump, cpu-levels, a couple new SFX and 2 new songs, some polished physics. These are all done.

And over the weekend, I hope to make the entire options menu with

SFX - on-off
Music - on-off
FullScreen - on-off
Change Controls


I think that's it. At least all the options I can remember. But like I said, we plan on releasing this demo as if it were the first demo released online. And it should be released on monday! I'll certainly hit you guys up with a link to the article and where to get the demo.


Also, thanks a ton for all your feedback. In later versions, I will have credits for QA and I greatly value all the input from smashboards.

-4nace

 

[Dark_Ermac]

For the 6th character, why don't you have Samus? Like DK, she's heavy, somewhat slow, and heavy-hitting. Plus, you can't forget about Metroid II: Return of Samus.

 

[DeeNinjaa]

...what, no new characters? *sob*

Samus definitely sounds like a good idea. I think we have our roster.

Moveset that just came to mind:
Neutral Ground: One-two Jab
Side Ground: Super Missile
Down Ground: Charge Shot
Up Ground: Her Up-smash
Neutral Air: Kick
Forward Air: Grapple Beam
Back Air: Backhand Shot(She turns half-way around, stick her gun-arm out and fires a small shot ala PK Fire.)
Down Air: Bomb
Up Air: Screw Attack


Edit: Actually, you wanted a non-smasher right? Knuckle Joe! He's from a series represented by one of the four starters, and was never playable in a smash game.

Moveset:
Neutral Ground(Tap): Vulcan Jab
Neutral Ground(Hold): Vulcan Shot(A downward punch sends out a shockwave)
Side ground: Lunging Kick(He hops forward with a kick)
Down Ground: Sweep Kick(Slides forward with a kick)
Up Ground: Uppercut
Neutral Air: Kick
Forward Air: Drill Kick(Kirby's SSB dair but forwards)
Back Air: Sex Kick
Down Air: Diving Kick
Up Air: Shoryuken, but lightning instead of fire

 

[Smash0holic]

Yayz!A demo!!!!

 

[4nace]

http://kotaku.com/5713194/super-smash-bros-de+made-for-game-boy-looks-crazy-enough-to-work

 

[Segtendo]

The author of that article seems to like it. The commenters have mixed opinions. :/

 

[DeeNinjaa]

I lol'd at the youtuber that wanted online for this.
>GB
>Online

Riiight...

 

[Jaklub]

I lol'd at the youtuber that wanted online for this.
>GB
>Online

Riiight...

It has 4 player mode on a SINGLE gameboy.
I don't see a single reason why online wouldn't be included. Graphics are way too detailed for a Gameboy (looks like only colour limit and resolution are kept), screen is infact four times bigger than GB resolution (there is some pixel inconsistency when it comes to character positions, I can't explain that well) and game definitely couldn't be processed by GB.