Super Smash Bros. Classic - HELP NEEDED!

[Zantetsu]

REMEMBER: LEAVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SMASH 64 IN THE SMASH 64 FORUM LOCATED HERE. THIS THREAD IS FOR ONLY DISCUSSING THE PROJECT!


Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. The plans
III. The Progress
IV. FAQ


I. Introduction

So, due to this being a failing project in the past, I'd like to see if I could revive it myself as a director for the project.

I've been playing Smash 64 since around the age of 6 or 7 and have loved the smash series ever since. I never entered the competitive scene until summer of 2006 when I was introduced to emulation and Kaillera. These 2 together allowed Smash 64 to be played online (Not going to explain it in this thread, visit the Smash 64 forum for more details). I eventually became a pretty decent player and was usually winning matches all the time against the lesser known names on Kaillera. Basically, I'm not a person who doesn't know anything about the game. I've been playing Smash 64 competitively for around 3 years and I'm not a random person trying to direct a project of a game I have no knowledge about.

My goal for this project is simple. I would like to make brawl an upgraded version of Smash 64. Along with this goal, I hope to learn more detailed information about both games and hopefully make me a better player. I don't plan to ever give up on this project, even if I'm the only one working on it. I'll be honest and say I have no knowledge in coding and only partial knowledge in PSA, but I do have enough knowledge in Brawlbox to do my part in the creation of this project. I hope to have more people participate in this project, but if I have none interested, I will do as much as I can to the project as possible (which will not be much).

So as of now, anyone may help. This project will be completely open and codesets will come out anytime I feel needed. If you plan on working on this, please let me know so I can have a rough estimate of how many people I have for this project.


II. The Plans

My goal for this project is to replicate the original Super Smash Bros. 64 game and add techniques to it. Overall, I want this game to feel like an upgraded Smash 64. The changes are as follows:

• Side B's and Up/Down Throw's will not be removed
• Old moves will replace new ones (Mario's dair will be replaced with the drill, etc.)
• Increase hitstun by quite a bit, allowing 0 - death combos
• Increase shield stun
• Add SSB64 Z Canceling (Fully lagless aerials)
• Remove wall teching, tethering, wall jumping, air dodging, and spot dodging

(More to come soon. I'll think about this during my classes tomorrow and write down more changes to update)

III. The Progress

BHLMRO: Working on swapping Luigi's animations with his 64 ones - 70% done

Currently nothing has been finished. We need more people to contribute!


IV. FAQ

Why are you doing this?
I honestly need something to do with my free time and I've always wanted to see an upgrade to the original Smash 64. I don't see Melee and 64 being close to the same at all, and even though Melee was as amazing as it gets, I'd still like to see a sequel similar to the 64 gameplay style.

What will be used as a base?
vBrawl

This is stupid
Thanks for your input

How can I help?
Whatever you think would be helpful for this project, post it in the thread. Anything will do, from coding to artwork to suggestions. Anything is fine! Remember, the project still needs a name. Anyone can suggest one!

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

there was a thread related to this made by WheelOfFIsh, but it's closed for all the flamming and spamming it got

I may say this now >>>>>>> I'm not a good Smash Bros. 64 player nor know the metagame or whats over but here's the thing ^^

I'm ubberly interested on this :D

I know how to swap animations with brawlbox and working with psa by a fair amount, but I'm unawared if I can help in this or not since I know little of smash 64

I started playing it since 1998, and stopped playing it with the arrival of melee and atm I keep playing melee (not like I was used to)

but anywaysnow ontopic

I would be honored if this would be in consideration, making the this project but not give it to public until is heavily pullished

again I want the readers to please help with this... do not post... flamming or anything negative about the idea of this project... this is for us to have fun if the project is well done and if it goes well

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY TO THE CREATOR OF THIS THREAD... "Do not surrender on this... as I read on the OP you won't "

 

[IrohDW]

How exactly would this be different from brawl besides the lack of airdodges and spotdodging? I like the idea of making smash more like smash 64, but I'm not exactly sure how this would be different enough to differentiate it from the other smash bros. games and projects that already exist. Although smash 64 is what got me into the series it's been a very long time since I played it, so I think now more than anything, you need to establish more specific goals of the project.
The only thing I can offer you is help with testing once you get the pacs made.

 

[Zantetsu]

How exactly would this be different from brawl besides the lack of airdodges and spotdodging? I like the idea of making smash more like smash 64, but I'm not exactly sure how this would be different enough to differentiate it from the other smash bros. games and projects that already exist. Although smash 64 is what got me into the series it's been a very long time since I played it, so I think now more than anything, you need to establish more specific goals of the project.
The only thing I can offer you is help with testing once you get the pacs made due to my inexperience with hacking.

Smash 64 is very different then any other smash game. It lacks a lot of the features that were implemented into later smash games, has ridiculous hit stun which makes combos usually 0 - deaths, and a few other things. Dust off your 64 and put the game in, you'll see how much different it really is.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

How exactly would this be different from brawl besides the lack of airdodges and spotdodging? I like the idea of making smash more like smash 64, but I'm not exactly sure how this would be different enough to differentiate it from the other smash bros. games and projects that already exist. Although smash 64 is what got me into the series it's been a very long time since I played it, so I think now more than anything, you need to establish more specific goals of the project.
The only thing I can offer you is help with testing once you get the pacs made.

I am guessing Less DI (outisde of Sash DI), Throws are good at killing and comboing, more balance, etc.

 

[IrohDW]

Smash 64 is very different then any other smash game. It lacks a lot of the features that were implemented into later smash games, has ridiculous hit stun which makes combos usually 0 - deaths, and a few other things. Dust off your 64 and put the game in, you'll see how much different it really is.

That's not what I meant. What I am trying to say is which elements from the original game are you going to keep. For example, are you going to allow 0-death combos to exist, are dthrow and uthrow going to exist, are spotdodging and airdodging going to exist. The fact that you are allowing side b moves in the game shows that this isn't going to be 100% like the original game. Because not everything is going to be exactly like the original smash 64 I am asking which elements are you going to keep and which are going to be changed. This is very significant because if you take away functionality that already exists in melee and brawl it would probably have less appeal to those that play melee and brawl. If you allow all of the things that melee and brawl have added, the game might seem too similar to brawl/melee.

 

[Nintendude]

SSB64 also has many other differences that people forget about:
-Z-canceling removes all lag on aerials
-You can't fastfall during attacks
-No wall/ceiling teching
-There are 3 jump heights (stick jump, button jump, short-hop)
-Dashing into a standing pivot is possible (and easy)
-Multihits are way slower and easier to smash DI

I think this is a pretty silly project though. Just play the actual game.

 

[Zantetsu]

That's not what I meant. What I am trying to say is which elements from the original game are you going to keep. For example, are you going to allow 0-death combos to exist, are dthrow and uthrow going to exist, are spotdodging and airdodging going to exist. The fact that you are allowing side b moves in the game shows that this isn't going to be 100% like the original game. Because not everything is going to be exactly like the original smash 64 I am asking which elements are you going to keep and which are going to be changed. This is very significant because if you take away functionality that already exists in melee and brawl it would probably have less appeal to those that play melee and brawl. If you allow all of the things that melee and brawl have added, the game might seem too similar to brawl/melee.

I'm trying to make a clone for SSB64 as close as possible. Other then the Side B moves, I don't think anything else will be much different. It's a bit to early to decide since I haven't had a feel of the project quite yet. I'll update what will change when I can.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

SSB64 also has many other differences that people forget about:
-Z-canceling removes all lag on aerials
-You can't fastfall during attacks
-No wall/ceiling teching
-There are 3 jump heights (stick jump, button jump, short-hop)
-Dashing into a standing pivot is possible (and easy)
-Multihits are way slower and easier to smash DI

I think this is a pretty silly project though. Just play the actual game.

this thread is in the Smash Workshop "Code Sets" area... which is... not... for talking about to play the actual game

this area is for Projects to change the current game so suggesting to play the actualgame is really lame :/

Project M
Brawl+
Brawl-
Street Fighter Brawl
Smash Bros 64. (Brawl Edition) this on in this thread

all this are not based on the actual game cause we actually like new codesets cause they are alot of fun and has/have new stuff that we can learn from

I still agree with this project

 

[ss118]

I'll be happy to test stuff, as I went through a phase in my life where I was all about the 64 version. I think side-B's should be removed altogether but whatever ^^'

 

[shanus]

removing sideB's would actually only require about 4 lines of code. Let me know if you want me to send it your way.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

For starters, there is a lot of things we will have to change to the overall physics of the game before we can move on to anything else. We will have to remove a LOT of things that were not in the original Smash 64. This includes air dodging, wall teching, spot dodging, fast falling during aerials, and so on. This shouldn't be a hard task to complete and shouldn't take very long.

"wall teching"

Please, please do not do this.

 

[shanus]

For starters, there is a lot of things we will have to change to the overall physics of the game before we can move on to anything else. We will have to remove a LOT of things that were not in the original Smash 64. This includes air dodging, wall teching, spot dodging, fast falling during aerials, and so on. This shouldn't be a hard task to complete and shouldn't take very long.

"wall teching"

Please, please do not do this.

And how do you plan on doing all of these things

I generally have an idea on how to remove them, but a lot of them aren't simple fixes.

 

[Rikana]

Oh ****. Brawl64. Let me quote what I posted before for the other topic.

Edit:

I was just talking about ssb64 last night and hoping that someone would pick up on it and make Brawl a Brawl64.

I think the project is dead anyways so..

I think it should keep everything Brawl has. Only thing to add/readjust is:

-hitstun; amplify it like crazy
-shield hitstun; same as above
-gravity worked out for individuals; more floaty
-physics; can be more like Brawl+'s physics
-manual l-cancel; reduces ALL lag
-ledge cancels
-platform drop; we will leave side stepping in but include this also. make it specific like.. control stick down + shield is side step. cStick down + shield is platform drop (side step when not on a platform)
-DJC for the originals; ness and yoshi
-possibly little adjustments for certain attacks that are broken when these things are applied

Everything else left alone so its more of a "modernized" ssb64

Alright, now I'll read the OP's post. lol.

----------

Edit2: aw. You're removing the airdodges and such. I was hoping for more of a modernized Brawl64. Either way, I'd love to be a beta tester as I still do play ssb64 when I get the chance to. I used to play on Kaillera quite often as well but I've stopped for a while.

 

[Zantetsu]

My mind hasn't been conpletly made up on what I want to keep and what I don't. If there's enough users who want to keep something but I don't, I'll add it anyway. This isn't a project on just what I want. I want this to be more of a community thing. I'm just trying to keep the project going while still keeping the 64 thought in mind.
-iPhone reply

 

[BG3]

You should really remove side-B. While it was a good addition, it isn't......64ish.

 

[Epic Kovumon]

Hasn't Brawl 64 been worked on already?

 

[smashkng]

Side b doesn't really have to be removed. And spikes should always connect, last a long time and have an amazing speed.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

Hasn't Brawl 64 been worked on already?

No.

We did try to make some silly codesets and some PSA frame changes, but the answer is "NO"

Side b doesn't really have to be removed. And spikes should always connect, last a long time and have an amazing speed.

they can be kept cause they are fun

But that would give the game something it didn't had which makes it more or a smashbros 64 with melee/brawl stuff, idk... if you all want them well keep them, but it makes no sense for many and also for me

there is a thread in the smash 64 section which has the frame data of attack of many of the cast, also with the hitbox durations and stuff, thats where we should be able to start with

 

[comboking]

I'll help how I can.

 

[V-K]

I got Smash 64 here and play it sometimes with friends.
So I would help with testing and stuff. :D

EDIT: You could also ask Isai for help, he is the best Smash 64 player ever and knows everything about that game.

 

[BG3]

I got Smash 64 here and play it sometimes with friends.
So I would help with testing and stuff. :D

EDIT: You could also ask Isai for help, he is the best Smash 64 player ever and knows everything about that game.

LMAO that would be awesome.

 

[Zantetsu]

I got Smash 64 here and play it sometimes with friends. So I would help with testing and stuff. :D EDIT: You could also ask Isai for help, he is the best Smash 64 player ever and knows everything about that game.

Isai is the kind of person that wouldn't aprove of a project like this. He won't even call online 64 smash "real smash" and this would be a joke to him.
-iPhone reply

 

[Rikana]

Isai is the kind of person that wouldn't aprove of a project like this. He won't even call online 64 smash "real smash" and this would be a joke to him.
-iPhone reply

This. Let alone will he ever touch Brawl.

 

[BEES]

That's unfortunate. 64 with more characters, stages, and better graphics just sounds like a no-brainer.

 

[Zantetsu]

That's unfortunate. 64 with more characters, stages, and better graphics just sounds like a no-brainer.

No matter how much hacking we put into this project, it will never be the exact same as 64.

 

[ss118]

"never" isn't the right word: If it's possible for monkey's to type up the bible by randomly hitting keys for thousands of years, I'm sure that we'll EVENTUALLY be able to replicate the N64 engine. =3

 

[Zantetsu]

I've finished the basic up tilt animation for Luigi. I haven't been working on animation much recently due to being busy but after about 20 or 30 minutes, I got the bones adjusted right and everything.

Here's the preview: http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1939/utilt.gif

I'll release a beta pac file for him once I have all the animations correct.

 

[Dan_X]

Nice work on Luigi!

You know, as much as I like side-Bs I'd strongly suggest taking them out. The inclusion of side-Bs will only make the game feel different from 64. Now different isn't bad, but it is when you're trying to make a game that feels like 64. I play Falco, not having the ilusion would cripple my recovery. Do I care? No. It wouldn't be 64 if I could side-B.

This mod should have those ridiculous 0-death combos. They are very fun. DI will also have to be a ton less. The game is still good with high hitstun, the original game is proof of that.

Please.. Please make this game as authentic to smash 64 as you can, because I to would like it to feel like Smash 64

 

[BG3]

Nice work on Luigi!

You know, as much as I like side-Bs I'd strongly suggest taking them out. The inclusion of side-Bs will only make the game feel different from 64. Now different isn't bad, but it is when you're trying to make a game that feels like 64. I play Falco, not having the ilusion would cripple my recovery. Do I care? No. It wouldn't be 64 if I could side-B.

This mod should have those ridiculous 0-death combos. They are very fun. DI will also have to be a ton less. The game is still good with high hitstun, the original game is proof of that.

Please.. Please make this game as authentic to smash 64 as you can, because I to would like it to feel like Smash 64

Agreed. Side-B's shouldn't be in if this is going to actually feel like you're playing a modified version of 64.

 

[Baro]

if you manage to make simplified models of Melee/Brawl characters using N64 amounts of polygons, I will love you

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

I've played smash 64 since it came out and know a ton about characts and specifics.

DI needs to be increaed a HUGE amount compared to brawls, almost every move will have a ton of DI capability, huge hitstun increase, etc etc etc


i've spent some time making a falcon 64 PSA hack, got a decent amount of it done

throws are changed into kill moves
down and F are both falcons down throw
back and up and falcons back throw

his fair is now his nair
hitboxes have bee changed in angle and power to best match 64 style.

up-air first hitbox is changed to send them up at 64 angle.
(second part isnt working and i cant seem to get it to send the opponent behind them at 64 angle, needs reworked)

spike now comes out as 64 speed and stays out as long, its also at 64 streangth
*due to brawls physics, getting a comb off spiking them from the ground is much much harder since people dont bounce nearly as high as in 64*

falcon kicks hitboxes have been changed to best fit 64 power
(last hitbox has been changed to a weaker version of the same angle, and a weak spike from the air)

falcon punch hasnt had much work, and his UP-b is hard to code from my limited knowledge on it,
*punch needs to come out faster and be stronger, as well as his up-b to have the grab hitbox stay out much longer and be a killing move*


i also just had fun messing aroun d with his side-b, it has a half sec of hitlag, kills around 100% off the cealing, and he yells "come on" right as they get sent flying, this and his kick along with punch also break shields.
(i was having fun making this, but alot of it is still very usefull)

you guys can take the hack i've made and change it to your needs sinc i've done most of the work.
If you want it PM me.
up to you guys.

 

[V-K]

Isai is the kind of person that wouldn't aprove of a project like this. He won't even call online 64 smash "real smash" and this would be a joke to him.
-iPhone reply

I also don´t think Isai would join this project but you can still ask him things about deep gameplay frame stuff in SSB64.

 

[Rikana]

Now that I think of it.. a modernized Brawl64 wouldn't be a good idea as it wouldn't really be 64. I guess sideB's should be taken out but I don't think throws should be kill moves (well not until 120ish at least). Give them huge knockbacks. You can include dThrow and uThrow but you can always just increase the knockback of those as well so you don't need to entirely remove them. It'll be funny to starKO someone with uThrow (lol mewtwo in melee).

Need lots of shield stun. Lots. I'm gonna love the new shield break combos.

Edit: It's gonna be extremely hard or ever to replicate smash64 100%. I would suggest leaving most of the attacks as they are without changing animations and such. Like.. giving Mario his uSmash hitbox from smash64 would be ridiculous since you can hit with it without the animation even touching your opponent. I'm curious as to how you're gonna make the difference between Z-canceled moves compared to non-Zcancels though.

In smash64, it was either Kirby or Jigs, that can dAir but if you don't Z-cancel it, your foe pops up. If you do cancel it, you can combo from the ground.

A suggestion for lag from aerials. Have a universal amount of frame of ending lag for all A button aerials. Make it long enough for it to be punished. As for Zcanceled aerials, make them have no lag at all for possible zero to deaths (not broken z to d's though; irony much? not broken z to d's.. lol but you know what I mean.. I hope).

 

[Zantetsu]

I also don´t think Isai would join this project but you can still ask him things about deep gameplay frame stuff in SSB64.

Frame data is already completed for 64, if I remember correctly. If it's not, I can easily do it myself.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

the luigi model looks akward

you should only change the Rotations and the translations leave them same as luigi's that way luigi won't stretch to look like mario

an example of what I'm telling

C.Falcon using ganon's jab with just copying the animation completly

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o216/chicomelee/CFalcon-Attack11Ganon.jpg?t=1265810880

He looks Ganon size cause he's stretching he's translations

now this one

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o216/chicomelee/CFalcon-Attack11Ganon_Edited.jpg?t=1265810886

he has same ganon animation while I copy it, but I only changed the Translations to be the same as C.Falcon (I opened another BBox to see 2 C.Falcons to change the translations)

he looks better as this, and would be awsome if Kryal can make it so whenwe export animations the translations won't be touched only the Rotations, so this way, we can have character not look weird or awful

 

[Zantetsu]

the luigi model looks akward you should only change the Rotations and the translations leave them same as luigi's that way luigi won't stretch to look like mario an example of what I'm telling C.Falcon using ganon's jab with just copying the animation completly http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o216/chicomelee/CFalcon-Attack11Ganon.jpg?t=1265810880 He looks Ganon size cause he's stretching he's translations now this one http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o216/chicomelee/CFalcon-Attack11Ganon_Edited.jpg?t=1265810886 he has same ganon animation while I copy it, but I only changed the Translations to be the same as C.Falcon (I opened another BBox to see 2 C.Falcons to change the translations) he looks better as this, and would be awsome if Kryal can make it so whenwe export animations the translations won't be touched only the Rotations, so this way, we can have character not look weird or awful

I honesty don't know how the luigi model looks weird to you. I only changed the translations and rotations for him and the up tilt looks fine when put into the game.
-iPhone reply

 

[smashkng]

Reducing throws is unneccessary IMO, but making everyone have at least 1 kill throw is a good idea. And make non-tether grabs almost lagless, but don't remove the tether recovering, it's very important, or ZSS/Olimar/Link/Ivysaur will have an even more LOL recovery. Still, Zairs doing damage can be removed.

 

[Zantetsu]

I've decided to call the project "Super Smash Bros. Classic" since no one has given me anything better. I'm still up for changing it if anyone gives me something better, but until then, this will be the prototype name.

I've also updated the original post. Some goals were changed around since I wasn't so clear the first time. I'm not looking to make this as close as 64 as possible, but instead, I'm aiming to make an upgraded Smash 64 remake with a few changes.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

the animation didn't look weird exept for luigi's face (mustache) if you change only the rotations on everything not only 1 frame animation and I'm telling that this must be done to all bones, takes alot of time to make it look like luigi is actually doing this attack without shrinking to mario size

you can test this this way, make mario and luigi have the same up tilt

then go to a match in brawl and put mARIo and luigi almost next to each other facing the same way

then pause the match and input an Utilt

un pause

if mario and luigi look different but doing the same animation then the move was editted correctly


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

in Project Melee

they are not just replacing animations they are redoing them from scratch, falco may have now fox Nair and reflector but he doesn't shrunk himself to copy the animation, since they fixed the translations to fit falco's size instead of just export and replace animation with both XYZ Rotations and XYZ Translations

anyways, it's just that this game must look neat and needs work to make perfection if not perfection then to make it be well done

I'm now working on a C.Falcon psa or a Mario PSA won't release any details cause if I quit there will be no reason on giving hopes to a new BBox/PSA character :O

c ya later, and this was just some suggestions to make not luigi but all chARACTERs moveswaps look neat