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Successor of Earth! Saki for SSB4! (Returns as AT Veteran)

Discussion in 'Wii U / 3DS Character Discussion' started by Young Horsetail, Jun 23, 2012.

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  1. Young Horsetail

    Young Horsetail Smash Hero

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Introduction [​IMG]
    Sin & Punishment was an action game developed by Treasure and Nintendo R&D 1 released in Japan for the Nintendo 64 in 2000. It is best described as a rail shooter, though its game engine requires platforming and evasive maneuvering along the way. The playable characters move independently of their shooting, which is done using a combination gun and sword that can be set to lock onto targets or be aimed manually with higher damage output. The sword can be used at close range, and well-timed slices can deflect projectile attacks toward other opponents.
    - Tv Tropes
    Sin & Punishment has been known for 3 reasons:
    • - It was the one of the most highly sought import titles for N64 back in early 2000's.
    • - One of the most highest requested games to be released for Virtual Console on Wii.
    • - Lastly, due it's type of a game being quite liked by Sakurai, seen as how he tended to tease us about Saki blending well as a fighter despite being an Assist Trophy. Kid Icarus Uprising would be later on be heavily borrowing from Sin & Punishment as well.
    [​IMG]


    For many people, this has pretty much lead to us expecting Saki to be featured in Smash Bros 4 quite much as a playable character. But what would Saki bring within anyway aside from universally approved character archetype and "coolness" he has?

    [​IMG] Overview and Playstyle [​IMG]

    Many envision him as all-around specialist on both longrange attacks and close combat. His Cannon Sword (Also dubbed Dolphin Gun or Night Stick in some occassions) is a hybrid between a laser sword and a gun. His bullets hit the opponent rapidly and can be aimed at any direction. Sword is a good for close combat and can even reflect back projectiles if hit in the right time. (Something which was carried on Kid Icarus Uprising.)

    One of the most interesting attributes to Saki is that his blood is infused with those of the ruffians, the mutant creatures which are the enemies of the game. This transforms him nearly 50 foot tall hideous monster with very devastating powers and durability. This can be easily signed as a fit Final Smash for Saki and could also be used as a good story element during hypothetically upcoming Adventure Mode for Sm4sh.

    [​IMG] Movesets [​IMG]


    PowerHungryFool and LEGOfan12 like this.
  2. Shorts

    Shorts Zef Side

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    I would have saved this for Star or Oasis :c

    :phone:
  3. Young Horsetail

    Young Horsetail Smash Hero

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    Shortie: Oasis would make a Ridley-topic instead, and I don't think Star's gonna mind!

    I hope...

    EDIT: Someone made Ridley-topic already?!

    Goosh now I feel bad...
  4. Arcadenik

    Arcadenik Smash Hero

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    Isa Jo or Saki Amamiya... what is the difference? I don't care. They are the same in my eyes. A Sin & Punishment protagonist would be pretty cool.
  5. ---

    --- Moderator

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    Oh, now you care. :laugh: :p


    But yeah, Saki's cool and has my back. He's by far one of the most likely newcomers IMO, and is the 2nd most likely AT character after Little Mac.
  6. Oasis_S

    Oasis_S Smash Legend

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    No no, you're fine Horsetail. Star would probably get all "grown up" and grow tired of tending to this thread anyhow.

    ANYWAY YES. Please Saki. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Alt costume.
  7. tirkaro

    tirkaro Smash Champion

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    As much as I love me some S&P, even if I still have no idea what the hell is going on in it's story, Sin and Punishment 2 was a far, far superior game in every way.

    Shame that the character designs were utter crap in comparison to the first, so Saki has my vote anyway.
  8. Junahu

    Junahu Smash Ace

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    From a pragmatic standpoint, I think Iso Jo or Kachi would be the more likely rep, with Saki returning as an Assist like last time. I'm hoping for Kachi personally, since she is Sin and Punishment's recurring character.
    Being able to riddle the opponent with bullets whilst flying around with her 'jet-pack' would be pretty fun, and I wouldn't want to sacrifice that just because Saki looks cooler.
  9. shinhed-echi

    shinhed-echi Smash Master

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    I approve of this very very much. :)


    Love the character, love the franchise, and it's more sci-fi elements for Smash, so I give this thread...

    [​IMG]
  10. Young Horsetail

    Young Horsetail Smash Hero

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    I dunno really about that, you could just transfer that to Saki anyway. Saki's though more know than his son and now is seen as the face of the series since his debut in Smash. It'd really put many people off if Saki was an assist trophy again and his son is playable... shouldn't it be other way around?
  11. Junahu

    Junahu Smash Ace

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    As I said, I'm personally hoping against hope for Kachi, but even I admit that Saki is a million times cooler than Iso Jo. I just worry that, as the more recent title, S&P2 would receive higher priority for a rep character.

    But whatever the rep turns out to be, I certain hope they can run and gun (and jump) at the same time. Being stuck in one place while shooting wouldn't be very S&P-like.
  12. GoldenYuiitusin

    GoldenYuiitusin Smash Legend

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    I used to be somewhat neutral yet supportive of Saki. And then I saw his Ruffian form.

    Saki all the way.
  13. KingRidley

    KingRidley Smash Rookie

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    He'd be great....
  14. Azure Warrior

    Azure Warrior Commander of the European Army

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  15. Venus of the Desert Bloom

    Venus of the Desert Bloom Zone B Secured

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    I made one but it is kind of old. Take a look:

    Saki Specials

    Cannon Sword allows Saki to pull out his gun and, while holding down B, release a stream of bullets. However, once the ammo is depleted, Saki must wait to it can restock itself. His gun has twenty rounds of ammo until it runs out. Cannon Sword can be altered by Saki’s Down B move Manual/Target Lock On which will be explained in detail then. Opponents stand stand next to Saki when he pulls out his Cannon Sword receive 5% damage with medium knock back. Saki can shoot ammo while jumping, running, crouching, or crawling.

    Dashing Strike causes Saki to rush in a straight line for 3 seconds. It can also be used as a recovery move however. Additionally, Saki can wall jump if he lands near a wall and reset his second jump. If a opponent is hit by this attack, Saki will pause and the opponent will be electrocuted. This exchange happens for 2 seconds. It has a high vertical and horizontal knock back as well as KO potential but a slow lag after wards. If Saki hits a opponent in mid air, there will be no free fall allowing him to move, attack, or dodge after the initial attack. Does 14-17% damage.

    Bullet Storm causes Saki to jump in the air in a display of acrobatic prowess. During the attack, Saki will release a hail of bullets (usually around six rounds of ammo) which will spray in different directions. Each bullet does 10% damage. It has very low KO potential but it is one of the highest recovery moves for a non-flying character.

    Manual/Auto Lock On allows Saki to switch ammo types. Manual ammo is stronger, slower, or only moves in a straight line. When performing any attack that requires a gun, it will use up ammo. The gun can carry only 20 rounds of ammo of each ammo type and then needs 30 seconds to recharge that ammo type. Target Lock On ammo is faster, weaker, but automatically locks on to the closest opponent unless they are too far away or can obstacle lies in the way. For example, a player playing as Saki uses up his Manual ammo so, in order to perform the other attacks, he has to switch to Target Lock On Ammo to fight. If the player runs out of both ammo, he has to rely on grabs and physical based attacks with the beam sword. Saki begins flashing red when the ammo has 3 rounds left. Once Saki runs out of his bullets, his gun flashes red as well.

    Manual ammo does 3% damage. Manual ammo is slow but strong and recharges faster while Auto Lock-On Ammo does 2% damage and is faster, but weaker and recharges slower. As well, Auto Lock On ammo does not stun opponents much like Fox’s lasers in Melee. Thus, Manual Ammo does 60% damage when fully used while Auto Lock On does 40% damage when fully used.

    It takes roughly 3 seconds for Saki to switch ammo and can be down in mid-air. If Saki is KO’d or falls of the stage, all his ammo goes back to 20/20. Every attack save for his Final Smash, Final Melee, and Final Brawl use ammo.

    Final Smash

    Ruffian Transformation is Saki’s Final Smash. Saki transforms into a Ruffian. Saki gains a huge amount of bonuses which include +20% damage, +20 speed, and +20 damage resistance and doesn’t flinch. Saki can release powerful energy blasts from his guns by pressing A that travel across the field and causes between 30-45% damage. Near the end of the Final Smash, Saki will stop and a massive shock wave will shoot from his body resulting in an additional 10% damage with a high knock back.

    Move Set


    Normal

    Neutral Attack – Delivers three hits. One is a short saber strike that does 2% damage, a second stronger hit with a long reach that does 3% damage, and then a final attack where Saki begins shooting the opponent. Holding down the A button allows Saki to continue shooting. It does damage depending on the ammo being used. A low knock back after the opponent is hit with the bullets.
    Dash Attack – performs a running dash where Saki slices with his Cannon Sword. Damage only occurs after Saki rushes past. It has moderate vertical knockback damage and hits 3 times with 3% damage for total of 9% damage.
    Forward Tilt – Leans forward and performs a vertical cut using his Cannon sword. Hits 4 times with 2% damage with each hit thus totaling to 8% damage.
    Down Tilt – Performs a sweeping sword strike that has high vertical and horizontal knock back at high percentages. Can KO. Does 5 hits at 3% damage for each hit thus totaling to 15% damage.
    Up Tilt – Thrusts his sword in a arc cutting above his head. Does 3 hits for 2% damage for for each hit thus totaling for 6%. Low damage but moderate vertical knock back.
    Smash Attacks

    Forward Smash – Saki begins shooting the opponent. Hold down the A button to continue shooting. Release the A button to swing Saki’s sword forward but only does 1 hit at 5% damage. The bullet attack can do an additional 3%-60% or 2%-40% damage with an additional 3% damage with the right perks. This damage fully depends on what ammo is used and how many rounds is used. In total in can do between 8%-65% or 7%-45% damage.
    Up Smash – Performs a upward sword thrust followed by a burst of gunfire that can be continued by holding down A. Same physics as the Forward Smash but less knock back and reversed with the sword attack first and gun fire second.
    Down Smash – Does a round house ground kick along with a burst of gun fire. It pumps out 6 rounds. The round house does 20% damage with no added perks plus additional damage from the bullets depending on the ammo used. Thus the attack can do between 32% damage or 38% damage depending on the ammo used.
    Other attacks

    Ledge attack -Saki quick jumps onto the stage and squeezes off 2 rounds of ammo. Does 6% damage or 4% damage; depending on the ammo used.
    100% Ledge attack – Saki pulls himself up, hoists himself up into a flipping jump over the opponent and with his cannon sword extended. Deals 2% with 5 hits each thus totaling at 10% damage.
    Floor attack – Rises and slices on one side of his body, then the other. Does 7%.
    Aerial Attacks

    Neutral Aerial – Saki spins around in the air with his cannon sword extended. Hits 3 times with a 3% damage at each hit thus totaling at 9% damage with some Hit Stun at the end.
    Forward Aerial – Swings his cannon sword forward for 5% damage that 5 times for a total of 25% damage with a high horizontal knockback.
    Back Aerial – Saki shoots 4 rounds behind him. Deals 12% or 8% damage depending on the ammo used.
    Up Aerial – Swipes in an arc above his head. It has little start-up lag and a moderate amount of ending lag, and has a wide hitbox with low vertical reach. It has low vertical knockback, making it effective as a juggler, but ineffective for the purpose of KOing. Does 12%.
    Down Aerial – Saki turns upside down and starts shooting right below him. He squeezes off 10 rounds at once in this attack. The last bullet is a possible meteor strikes. Manual ammo does 30% while Auto Lock On does 20% damage. It suspends opponents in mid air.
    Grabs & Throws

    Pummel – Hits his opponent with his elbow. Very fast but only does 2% damage.
    Forward Throw – pushes his opponent and then slashes forward with his cannon sword. Hits 4 times with 2% damage each thus totaling at 8%.
    Back Throw – Throws the opponent backwards like a judo throw and fires a 3 round burst at the opponent. The throw does 2% damage while the bullets do 9% or 6% damage thus totaling to 11% or 8% damage.
    Up Throw – Throws the opponent upward and fires off 4 rounds of ammo. The throw does 1% damage while the bullets does 12% or 8% damage thus totaling at 13% or 8% damage.
    Down Throw – Slams the opponent on the ground for 4% damage and fires 3 rounds into him. Manual deals 9% while the Auto Lock On does 6% damage thus totaling to a overall 13% or 10% damage.

    Again it's old and I haven't read through it to add changes or new ideas.

    :phone:
  16. Mario_and_Sonic_Guy

    Mario_and_Sonic_Guy Cosmic Beauty

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    I may not be familiar with Saki's game series, but he would be a good playable addition to the Super Smash Bros. series. Maybe his Ruffian form could be a Power-Up type of Final Smash.
  17. Young Horsetail

    Young Horsetail Smash Hero

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    I'll add these to the main post. Also gonna use Oaster's sprite above as little thumbnail buttons for the subject titles. (-lwl-)^
  18. shinhed-echi

    shinhed-echi Smash Master

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    That's a great moveset, Venus. My only critique is... Why does Saki use ammo? Is it just for balancing measures?

    I think a great special for Saki would be that while you press B, you can strafe, and perhaps even jump and move while he's firing. The "bullets" would inflict damage, but never flinch an opponent. Perhaps while holding SIDE-B (another special) Saki would be able to tilt the fire up and down, but not moving this time.

    They have to represent his rapid-fireyness well, even if it takes two special moves to do it, imo. :)


    Also... why does this thread have so little support? :U
  19. Young Horsetail

    Young Horsetail Smash Hero

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    I love the moveset too Venus. One question too though: why Saki has no function of being able to reflect back the projectiles with his sword? I think this would either fit as Side B or Down B.
  20. shinhed-echi

    shinhed-echi Smash Master

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    My (Full) special ability ideas to share.


    B: Gun and run:
    >While holding B, Saki will unleash a stream of bullets straight ahead. While he's doing this, the player can tilt the joystick left or right to move, down for crouching, and up to jump (if tap-button is enabled)

    B-Tilt: Aim and gun:
    >Saki stands up while shooting a stream of bullets ahead. Tilt the joystick up or down to aim the fire at an angle (max angle is 45º up or down).

    B-Down: Defelct
    > Saki uses his weapon to slash at an incoming projectile to deflect it. When used on opponents, this causes them to flip around.

    B-Up: Jetpack
    > Saki uses a jetpack (S&P2) to boost upwards, and then starts to hover back to the playing field. While hovering, you can open fire if you press B repeatedly while hovering.


    Final Smash: Ruffian Saki
    >A Giga-Bowser deal. Saki will become a giant Ruffian, and becomes much faster and stronger. His dodge-rolls become teleports, and his attacks all have mortal knockback. This lasts for 10 seconds.



    The idea for my moveset is that Saki becomes an annoyer. He's a spammer, but his ranged attacks don't flinch the opponent. He forces opponets to move, while he himself can backtrack to get out of reach while still firing.
  21. Venus of the Desert Bloom

    Venus of the Desert Bloom Zone B Secured

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    Basically. I know ammo isnt a worry I'm S&P but I feel using ammo in Smash would lessen the ability to spam indefinitely with Saki while still making him a trigger happy character. Plus adds a little bit of technicalness to his character. Maybe the gun could have a overheat function instead...

    @Young Horsetail: I'd quote you but im using my iPhone to reply so it's kinda hard.

    I think a deflect move would be interesting. I've never fully played a S&P game so I'm not too knowledgeable in it.


    By the way I made a palette swap for Saki

    [​IMG]
    :phone:
  22. Junahu

    Junahu Smash Ace

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    Isn't overheat functionally similar to ammo? They're both about conserving your fire, which as you say goes against the feel of the game.

    I feel like most of his regular attacks should involve gun fire (limited range but capable of flinching/pushback if multiple bullets hit in succession)and especially all his aerials, so that you're almost always shooting if you're always attacking. And a single special can be used to aim and shoot whilst standing still (Gunstar Blue style).
    So long as the aerials and up/forward tilts involve shooting, Saki won't even need a dedicated Special for shooting while moving.
    electric mouse likes this.
  23. MelMoe

    MelMoe Smash Journeyman

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    I enjoyed Sin & Punishment 2, though I thought is was too short. I wouldn't mind a playable character. Saki would need to shoot & move at the same time. A mechanic needs to be developed that would allow this.

    :phone:
  24. shinhed-echi

    shinhed-echi Smash Master

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    I agree with this. Saki needs to have a "special" which will allow him to "strafe" forward and backwards (and even jump) while shooting.

    It makes so much sense, I cannot think of anything more fitting to him.
  25. Oasis_S

    Oasis_S Smash Legend

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    Don't remember if this was on any movesets, but Saki should definitely have a special that allows him to deflect shots with his sword and turn them into those little "homing missile" things. THEY'RE NOT REALLY HOMING MISSILES but I always thought they looked like that.
  26. shinhed-echi

    shinhed-echi Smash Master

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    I really like those color swaps, Venus. Would've been great to see an Isa color scheme (light aqua and black) but then again, not really needed.

    I wonder why they decided to give these protagonists really small shorts... To the point they look real girly. :p
  27. 鉄腕アトム

    鉄腕アトム Earth's Mightiest Robot

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    Thread has been dead for like two weeks? For shame.

    Saki Amamiya is my most wanted newcomer for a new series. As far as things are concern, he fits like a glove and seems to be that SSB4 newcomer that is going to be a seriously special addition that is going to become one of the most popular additions to the cast.

    Saki of course fits the criteria pretty well with high requests worldwide and fantastic move set potential. Not to mention that Sakurai has a bias for Saki and this is the biggest reason why he has the shot that he does. He is the only Assist Trophy that has hints of being seriously considered for a playable slot, so you bet he's going to get considered again.

    Then take a look at Kid Icarus: Uprising. The game play takes a lot of influence from Sin & Punishment, with it's fast pace on-rail shooter with enemies flying all around. Which is pretty important as it shows that Sakurai considered this game to be an important influence on his revival game.

    I have a very good feeling about him getting in. So this thread definitely has my support.
  28. Ninka_kiwi

    Ninka_kiwi Smash Ace

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    I dunno if this would be okay for balancing, by why not give saki the property of deflecting the bullets by using a smash attack or an a attack instead of limiting it to a side special?
    I dunno just my thoughts. It'd be a cool property like links shield deflecting projectiles.
  29. MasterGorf

    MasterGorf Smash Cadet

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    >.< I can't believe I haven't posted in this thread yet, I feel Saki has a very good chance for Smash 4, based on his popularity and also statements from Sakurai. I also think one of his specials should be some sort of reflector sword(like pit's side B except maybe just a quick swipe instead of spinning it) as that was one of his main moves in the game.
  30. Ember Reaper

    Ember Reaper Smash Journeyman

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    They sort of worked in the shoot and move mechanic in brawl. Maybe that was a precursor to get Saki in, Sakurai did comment specifically on Saki. So maybe he was thinking about it early on and the idea stayed in the form of shooting items.
  31. GoldenYuiitusin

    GoldenYuiitusin Smash Legend

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    The way I see it; either Saki or Isa is getting in.
    While Sakurai has talked about Saki directly, who knows what he feels about Isa, who's near the same deal.
    And it might be another Earthbound situation.

    Not saying I support Isa over Saki, but the possibility is out there.
  32. Venus of the Desert Bloom

    Venus of the Desert Bloom Zone B Secured

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    Isa does have the ability to propel through the air with his jet pack. That would prove to be very interesting. A jet-propelled sword/gun fighter would be very enticing. I think it`s 60/40 in Sakis favor of getting into Smash. Due to his AT and mascot status, he seems to be the most popular character for S and P.
  33. GoldenYuiitusin

    GoldenYuiitusin Smash Legend

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    ....I hardly think he has "mascot status". I doubt the series even has one with it's limited releases.

    Anyways, what also bodes well for Isa is that he actually has some hand-to-hand combat in his game.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdqbgSHxwvA
    Start at 2:45
  34. Venus of the Desert Bloom

    Venus of the Desert Bloom Zone B Secured

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    I was referring to Saki being the character everyone recognized (who is familiar with the series). He's the face of S and P. Mascot may of been too strong of a word but he's the most recognizable character for S and P.

    Sorry if I was vague on that part.

    :phone:
  35. Oasis_S

    Oasis_S Smash Legend

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    Huh. Dunno why I forgot about that.

    Saki could borrow some of those moves, I suppose. Probably not many though. Not too important I guess.
  36. Ember Reaper

    Ember Reaper Smash Journeyman

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    Some of the music should be put on here, it's soem good stuff. Just beat it today. ...very short :(
    but fun! very fun and hectic.
    so yeah music
  37. Metal Overlord

    Metal Overlord Smash Hero

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    Wanted Saki ever since I first saw him as an AT in Brawl
  38. genhutalla

    genhutalla Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    Remind of the days when I am still addicted to levitra online games. I used to play Ragnarok before but now I sometimes play LOL. Though this one new to me. Gonna check this later.
  39. Opossum

    Opossum HoHoHopossum

    • Moderator
    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    7,655
    Location:
    Some small town you've never heard of...
    3DS FC:
    4742-4911-3431

    I've been thinking about getting Sin and Punishment on the VC. Based on the outcome, I may start to more actively supporting Saki.
  40. Azure Warrior

    Azure Warrior Commander of the European Army

    • Premium
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,572
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    3DS FC:
    1375-7346-9605
    NNID:
    Takamaru64
    I actually played the second one and is torn between getting Saki or Isa. Isa should have his charge shot, jetpack, and the Griffin Keeper as the Final Smash. While Sakli depends on his athletics, multishot, and true Ruffian form as the Final Smash. These are the differences they can have.
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