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Successor of Earth! Saki for SSB4 DLC! (Vote for him in SSB4 Website!)

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Second Power

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So, time to reopen some discussion. Saki is one of those characters who is in the gray area as far as chances for inclusion. Sakurai most likely has an affinity for him and the games (based on Uprising's gameplay). But, S&P is still a two game series that has only recieved moderate success. It isn't unheard, considering Ness and Lucas, but it's noteworthy that their games were both hits while Saki's wasn't. So, can he be called likely?
 

Curious Villager

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Well if Sakurai want's him in then why not? really... :/ He seems to be a fan. Kinda surprised he still didn't make him playable. But with the new Wii game out featuring I believe new main characters. I suppose he will opt for those for smash 4 instead.
 

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Well I don't wish to see Saki being picked over Isaac, Little Mac and what else other characters just because Sakurai likes him so much. Otherwise I'd call Smash Bros "Sakurai's Fighting Game, featuring favorite Nintendo-characters of SAKURAI", if ya know what I mean.

Also there's the fact that he didn't add Dedede and Meta as quickly as he planned to save his series from overtaking representation compared to bigger ones until Brawl. So I don't see why he'd pick up Saki solely. He knows he has to balance his bias with something then to not confuse the fans.
 

Curious Villager

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Well I don't wish to see Saki being picked over Isaac, Little Mac and what else other characters just because Sakurai likes him so much. Otherwise I'd call Smash Bros "Sakurai's Fighting Game, featuring favorite Nintendo-characters of SAKURAI", if ya know what I mean.

Also there's the fact that he didn't add Dedede and Meta as quickly as he planned to save his series from overtaking representation compared to bigger ones until Brawl. So I don't see why he'd pick up Saki solely. He knows he has to balance his bias with something then to not confuse the fans.
True, that's a good point. Silly me. But now that both Sin and Punishment games are available outside Japan I'm pretty sure we will likely see someone repping this franchise this time around. :/
 

Second Power

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Well I don't wish to see Saki being picked over Isaac, Little Mac and what else other characters just because Sakurai likes him so much. Otherwise I'd call Smash Bros "Sakurai's Fighting Game, featuring favorite Nintendo-characters of SAKURAI", if ya know what I mean.

Also there's the fact that he didn't add Dedede and Meta as quickly as he planned to save his series from overtaking representation compared to bigger ones until Brawl. So I don't see why he'd pick up Saki solely. He knows he has to balance his bias with something then to not confuse the fans.
There really isn't much difference between Saki, Isaac, and Little Mac. Aren't you the one who said that plenty of C-list series are relying on Smash for survival? That statement applies to all the three above. The Wii-U won't see as many first party games as the Wii on the premise that it won't need to. No third party was going to make big titles for the Wii when there were two generally considered better systems out, which is why a lot of older series like S&P and Punch-Out were brought back. This, quite honestly, won't happen for the Wii-U. If those two get another game (and GS as well), it will have to be because of demand. Punch-Out has a better chance due to a more successful game, which puts S&P in the same tier as GS. Both are relying on Smash to continue. It seems like you're mad because Saki is more likely than Isaac. As an if, what if Golden Sun was Sakurai's favored series and S&P was being left out in the cold? Would you tolerate me saying that Isaac didn't deserve to be in just because Sakurai liked him? Isaac and Saki both have similar situations. Both of their series had overall good reception (well, not the DS GS, but I won't go there). Why be upset that one is more likely?

And, while bias doesn't totally determine the roster, you can expect at least one character that comes from Sakurai's bias. Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, etc. It's not a pattern, but if he feels like the characer would be a good addition, then he'll add them, popularity be damned.
 

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I'm fine with Saki or Isaac as long as Shulk gets in. That's all that really matters to me haha
 

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There really isn't much difference between Saki, Isaac, and Little Mac. Aren't you the one who said that plenty of C-list series are relying on Smash for survival? That statement applies to all the three above. The Wii-U won't see as many first party games as the Wii on the premise that it won't need to. No third party was going to make big titles for the Wii when there were two generally considered better systems out, which is why a lot of older series like S&P and Punch-Out were brought back. This, quite honestly, won't happen for the Wii-U. If those two get another game (and GS as well), it will have to be because of demand. Punch-Out has a better chance due to a more successful game, which puts S&P in the same tier as GS. Both are relying on Smash to continue. It seems like you're mad because Saki is more likely than Isaac. As an if, what if Golden Sun was Sakurai's favored series and S&P was being left out in the cold? Would you tolerate me saying that Isaac didn't deserve to be in just because Sakurai liked him? Isaac and Saki both have similar situations. Both of their series had overall good reception (well, not the DS GS, but I won't go there). Why be upset that one is more likely?
Vecause when comparing S&P to Golden Sun, the latter has lot more priority in many ways: it has a notably huge fanbase, it had three games which were all released outerseas and is more popular there too. S&P, as far as I've seen, pretty small fanbase. I don't want some stupid people to spread up a thought that S&P is an important, hugely beloved series to Nintendo because of Smash Bros all of a sudden. Especially when series like PunchOut showed more dedication to it's own series than S&P did. It'd just feel wrong. If anything, S&P wouldn't feel completely out of place if it had at least some other C-list series represented along with it.

But still, I hadn't said anything about Saki not being deserving, but I think it'd feel pretty wrong if Sakurai's bias was the factor why S&P would be in Smash over GS or even Punch-Out. If he picks them in terms of how he likes them, then Smash Bros isn't really calling out well on dedicated fanbases on some C-list franchises because it's mostly hit or miss and we need to analyze Sakurai's preferences so much to predict which next series he feels like giving another chance. And this would be my opinion, but it'd be also unfair to Golden Sun's and Punch-Out's successes which were much more higher than S&Ps. I mean what if I had a franchise that would be left out of cold for a franchise favoured by Sakurai despite my fave having more success and fame to it, including a big fanbase? I thought this was a Nintendo All Star-game, not "Sakurai's favourite Nintendo characters duking it out-game"!


Shortly, I want as much C-list to get in as possible, but preferably still looking how they are compared to each other rather than picking them around on Sakurai's bias. Otherwise supporting Isaac and to lesser extent, Mac would be redundant and just setting us up for a huge disappointment because Saki seems the most easily picked for playable character due bias. And even despite how much more demanded and dedicated GS-fans wanting GSpresentation and PunchOut!!-fans wanting PO!!-representation are out there.
Otherwise I'd have thrown my towel already here and said "Saki gets in, and who cares what happens to GS, it won't get in anyway. I mean Sakurai wants Saki more, right?".
There's that stinging feel of unfairness that bellows in me if I hear S&P getting only in. It's not very faithful to how much more successful C-list series had fared compared to it. (-l´l-)
 

Reyson

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I hope they both(and other smaller series) make it in, they bring so much more to the game than yet another Mario/Pokemon/Kirby/Zelda character. Why add sidecharacters that people don't care about when you can introduce them to awesome series that they might not have heard about.
 

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Yeah the C-Tier series will always get the short end of the stick (I want Samurai Goroh in Smash **** it! :p). But honestly there's not one realistic roster that takes into account every single character that the fanbase (to keep things simple) wants.

That said none of this is taking into account what we know about how characters are picked as well as the choices made in development for the sake of the game, that and sales don't matter. Popularity is only 1 of the 4 character criteria. One cannot also forget that only 4 of the 9 original Melee newcomers (5 of 14 if we included Ganondorf and the clones) were fan picked.

Yes Saki's not as popular as some of the other C-Tier franchises, and is also a little bit more obscure. That said, Sakurai said that he'd fit in great with the Smash formula (which shouldn't be taken as bias, though you're all right in thinking that Sakurai loves shooters), something of which only him and Dixie Kong have going towards their inclusion. If it's for the general good of the game and the roster, why wouldn't Sakurai include him if given the chance (assuming there aren't any other characters Sakurai dims even better than him)?

tldr: Sakurai makes the majority of the calls when it comes to the roster rather than fans, of which are often the better choices as they're for the sake of gameplay/balance/quality. Whether or not this is more or less subjective is up to you.
 
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Bear in mind also, that according to Sakurai, Saki had a lot of requests for his inclusion.
While this applies to Brawl, not Smash 4, it's still something. Kind of like how I feel Toad's requests pre-Melee (being 4th of Mario characters after Bowser, Peach, and Wario, who are all now already in Smash) will help him overcome the issue that currently befalls requests on Mario Newcomers.
 

FlareHabanero

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A lot of requests in Japan at least, but not exactly sure about more global areas though.

It seems to have died after Super Smash Bros Brawl was released from what I've seen.
 
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For the most part, the non-Japan support is superfluous.
While it helped in the case of Pit and Sonic (according to Sakurai), it isn't a defining stance.
Just because so-and-so is more popular in Japan than outside it doesn't mean that their chance is limited. The opposite does mean that though, unless their outside of Japan support is rather large as is the case for Little Mac and Ridley, who's support is recognised within Japan.
 

FlareHabanero

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Actually the Japanese only support thing does kinda limit the chances, with Sakurai himself saying so. It's probably the reason why characters with support only from Japan have a more rough time when it comes to inclusion; Marth and Roy in particular were almost scrapped for international releases of Super Smash Bros. Melee because of this.
 

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I don't see how a character not being popular in Japan would affect their chances, since the Japanese market is a smaller part of the fanbase than the western one.
 
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Actually the Japanese only support thing does kinda limit the chances, with Sakurai himself saying so. It's probably the reason why characters with support only from Japan have a more rough time when it comes to inclusion; Marth and Roy in particular were almost scrapped for international releases of Super Smash Bros. Melee because of this.
That's Japan-exclusive characters.
As in, they only have appeared in Japan.

Saki would be in that category if it weren't for his game being released outside Japan in Virtual Console for Wii.
 

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There really isn't much difference between Saki, Isaac, and Little Mac. Aren't you the one who said that plenty of C-list series are relying on Smash for survival? That statement applies to all the three above.
And this is pretty much the only thing those three have in common. I'd even argue that Little Mac and Punch-Out would not require Smash to continue, as the game was received well critically and commercially, and seemingly can stand on its own momentum. Other than the fact that both GS and S&P are in decline (though S&P was never that big to begin with), and the protagonists both happen to be blonde and wield "swords" (though pretty much the most opposite kinds of swords possible) doesn't mean they have anything else in common. They wouldn't play similarly, they don't come from the same genre, they won't directly effect each others chances, and they have pretty polarizing popularity (Isaac more popular in the west, Saki in the east). Little Mac is even more diverse than the other two.

The Wii-U won't see as many first party games as the Wii on the premise that it won't need to.
It's much too early to know this. And it's not like the Wii saw an extraordinarily large increase in the number of 1st/2nd party titles when compared to previous systems anyway.

No third party was going to make big titles for the Wii when there were two generally considered better systems out, which is why a lot of older series like S&P and Punch-Out were brought back. This, quite honestly, won't happen for the Wii-U.
Those series were brought back because their recent VC releases had been largely profitable and Nintendo still saw a potential market for sequels, not due to desperation for more Nintendo content on the Wii.

Plus, again it's too early to know what the future of the Wii U will entail.

It seems like you're mad because Saki is more likely than Isaac. As an if, what if Golden Sun was Sakurai's favored series and S&P was being left out in the cold? Would you tolerate me saying that Isaac didn't deserve to be in just because Sakurai liked him? Isaac and Saki both have similar situations. Both of their series had overall good reception (well, not the DS GS, but I won't go there). Why be upset that one is more likely?
I wouldn't say Saki is more likely than Isaac. Isaac's series is much more well known, has had universal release of the entire series, sold nearly seven times better than S&P, and overall has more popularity. S&P's future is even more dark than GS's. The only thing Saki has going for him that's kept him in the relatively high regard he's seen in is the fact that Sakurai might have a bias towards him. A bias which Sakurai very rarely actually acts on.

Even if he did have undeniably better chances than Isaac, I personally wouldn't be mad. I'm not mad at the characters that actually do have better chances than characters I would personally like to see, and I wouldn't be mad if Saki was one of them (which he's not). It would obviously mean that he's done something to earn his high likelihood chances, and there's no point in being mad that a character is legitimately likely, even if I don't particularly have any affinity for that character.

Also, again personally, if the only reason Isaac had a chance was because Sakurai liked him, then yeah, I would tolerate (and agree with) you saying he didn't deserve to be included, because he wouldn't. That being said, I believe Saki has more going for him than just Sakurai's bias (even if I do find him less likely than people give him credit for), so I wouldn't say the situation was that black and white anyway.

And, while bias doesn't totally determine the roster, you can expect at least one character that comes from Sakurai's bias. Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, etc. It's not a pattern, but if he feels like the characer would be a good addition, then he'll add them, popularity be damned.
Neither Captain Falcon nor Ice Climbers were added purely due to bias. Captain Falcon was included because he was the best fit for the prototype fighter's model and design (back when it was Dragon King) and Ice Climbers were not nearly Sakurai's first choice for a retro character (they were like fifth or something). In fact, Sakurai stated that his favorite retro (and character in general) for Melee was Mach Rider, yet Ice Climbers were the ones included. Sakurai acts on his bias very rarely, like I said above. Even by the time Meta-Knight and Dedede were added, they were among the most popular characters requested, so it's not like Sakurai said "popularity be damned" to them either.

shinpichu said:
I don't see how a character not being popular in Japan would affect their chances, since the Japanese market is a smaller part of the fanbase than the western one.
Yeah, it overall seems pretty unfair. However, while unfair, it isn't really anything new or surprising with Smash (or a lot of Japanese series), as both the Melee and Brawl polls were Japan only, and the rosters for all three so far were created with Japanese popularity first and foremost (not to say western popularity didn't play a part too - just not nearly as big a part). That said, so far for the most part, the characters chosen have been pretty popular in the west as well, which is fortunate. On the other hand, it's not like characters such as Pit and/or Sonic were only popular in the west, Sonic still managed to come in first on a purely Japanese poll.

However this is really the first time that there is quite a big divide between some of the most popular characters in the west and the east, and Sakurai might have to add a character due to purely western demand (Ridley, Little Mac), which hasn't happened as of yet. Of course, characters like Mewtwo, Roy, K. Rool, Palutena, Shulk, Zoroark, etc would appease both audiences, so it's not like popularity will be skewed to one side in particular.
 

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Again, it's not so much bias as it is making the decisions to keep the game on course and it's quality up. Popularity is what gets a character noticed, but the other 3 criteria always take the priority in the end.


@N3ON: Yeah some of us to do overrate Saki a little, but that doesn't change my opinion at least on Issac just yet. :p

Also technically Sakurai did say that it was mainly the west who got Sonic into Brawl. Either way the East/West divide definitely makes me think Little Mac and Takamaru will get in, it's just too perfect, but we'll save that for their respective threads.
 

FlareHabanero

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That's Japan-exclusive characters.
As in, they only have appeared in Japan.

Saki would be in that category if it weren't for his game being released outside Japan in Virtual Console for Wii.
Keep in mind that the roster for Brawl was finalized during 2006, which was a year before Sin & Punishment was available globally on virtual console. So technically, Saki was indeed a character only from Japan during a large portion of Brawl's development.

Also it's not Japanese-exclusive, it's Japanese-appeal. If only the Japanese care about a particular character, then their inclusion will be debatable. This is the reason we might expect Takamaru, but not Black Shadow.
 

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@N3ON: Yeah some of us to do overrate Saki a little, but that doesn't change my opinion at least on Issac just yet. :p

Also technically Sakurai did say that it was mainly the west who got Sonic into Brawl. Either way the East/West divide definitely makes me think Little Mac and Takamaru will get in, it's just too perfect, but we'll save that for their respective threads.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Isaac was super likely or anything close to a shoo-in, I admit his chances are so-so at best, I just personally think he's more likely than Saki.

And it's true, Sonic's inclusion was greatly because of the west, but it wasn't solely because of western popularity, like Ridley or Little Mac's inclusion would be. That's all I was trying to say. It still takes a lot of popularity to come in first on the Brawl poll. :smirk:
 
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Keep in mind that the roster for Brawl was finalized during 2006, which was a year before Sin & Punishment was available globally on virtual console. So technically, Saki was indeed a character only from Japan during a large portion of Brawl's development.

Also it's not Japanese-exclusive, it's Japanese-appeal. If only the Japanese care about a particular character, then their inclusion will be debatable. This is the reason we might expect Takamaru, but not Black Shadow.
It turns out you are right according to SamuraiPanda's old translations.
However, Black Shadow is not Japan only support. He has outside of Japan support. It's just that Goroh is more supported outside than he is within.

And as for popularity, BS is known even by people who don't know who he is due to the infamous Falcon Punch meme. Afterall, he's the one that gets hit.
 

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2. It is more of what the game stands for and not the sales. S&P2 was both the RETURN of the series and the LOCALIZATION of it as well. The VC game of the original was just an import.

Isa was the main character of that game, and Saki's game was around 2000 (he should have been in Melee). As an alt character? Sure. The actual character represent S&P? I don't think so.
Lol@ calling S&P a series. If it is, it may as well be dead at this point(and not just because of sales).
 
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Lol@ calling S&P a series. If it is, it may as well be dead at this point(and not just because of sales).
Well it will be when S&P3 comes to Wii U where Saki travels through time to fight alongside his son :awesome:

Why would it not happen? Because of sales?
 

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Well it will be when S&P3 comes to Wii U where Saki travels through time to fight alongside his son :awesome:
Well, that might happen if S&P3 had a chance of happening. The games' plots make, like, negative sense.

srsly, Final Crisis made more sense

Edit: S&P3 isn't likely to happen because Treasure doesn't like to make sequels(especially direct sequels). The only ones that come to mind in their 2 decades of development are Gunstar Super Heroes, Advance Guardian Heroes, Bangai-O Spirits, and S&P 2. And when they do happen, they tend to not happen until, like almost a decade after the original.
 
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Whether or not they like to make sequels or not, there IS a sequel hook to Star Successor that leads to possibility.

EDIT: Namely the fact that it is discussed that Isa's and Kachi's enemies will still come after them and
Kachi now regaining her memories as Achi from the first game, and her plan was to use Isa to destroy her enemies
.
 

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There's room in the story for a game that takes place between the first and second games. I would have preferred that to be honest. *kicksdust*
 

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I just recently beated Sin & Punishment: Star Successor. (My first S&P)
I think I can easily come up with a moveset for Saki (At least for Isa)
Are Saki and Isa alike to how they fight?
What are their differences?
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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I just recently beated Sin & Punishment: Star Successor. (My first S&P)
I think I can easily come up with a moveset for Saki (At least for Isa)
Are Saki and Isa alike to how they fight?
What are their differences?
Isa has a different Ruffian Form, he does hand to hand combat, and has a jetpack unlike his father. I'm sure the both of them can do charge shots.
 

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Come to think of it, a lot of people seem to justify Isa because he has a jet pack, giving him an obvious Up Special over Saki. But I mean, seriously. Doesn't that just sound so stupid. Think of how easily Sakurai could just give that same ability to Saki. The jet pack doesn't even need to be there. Just make Saki act as though he's moving with one. Though ROB already does that so who knows if Sakurai would go with it anyhow. Maybe have him teleport or something.
 

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What's even more funnier is that back in 64, Fox's Up B was called "Jetpack". Seriously. I guess it would be justified in the same manner.
 

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Come to think of it, a lot of people seem to justify Isa because he has a jet pack, giving him an obvious Up Special over Saki. But I mean, seriously. Doesn't that just sound so stupid. Think of how easily Sakurai could just give that same ability to Saki.
Yeah. For example: :lucas: and :ness:
 

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You could've used the AT Brawl model, but the end result is as sexy as ever. ;)
 

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You could've used the AT Brawl model, but the end result is as sexy as ever. ;)
Wasn't big enough (and the screenshots and hacked pics didn't work either), it looked pretty weird when I try to make it work. I tried though. And thanks! ;)
 

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Ohh really? Kinda surprises me cause it seemed to work good for the Isaac banner. And no problems of coarse. ;)
 

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I used to think that Saki was a girl. I realized that he is a boy only when saw his page on Smashwiki. :laugh:
 
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