Sub-ground float (tech discussion)

[TrashWizard]

This is a really situational tech and its probably nothing new in the first place, however, its just a small observation that I wish to talk about.

The basic overview of this tech is basically where one holds down and jumps to low hover at the slopes on yoshis story and then move in stage so as to hide Peach's feet in the stage probably through some physics exploit.

This 'tech' has one major implication which is Peach's stage control on Yoshis story in particular, It allows for the peach player to force the opponent onto the platforms, to achieve the stage control, use B-Air and it automatically float cancels the move. meaning if they try to punish you, retaliate with Peach's bair, and if that is not an option, then you can shield, spotdodge or roll out of the way. What you do with the stage control that you can achieve is up to you.

Minor implications of this include:
Punishing predictable ledge recovery
Overpowering opponents with high advantage moves on ground
and very minor surface area reduction.

 

[Archelon]

Yeah, this seems pretty useful in some situations.

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

this has been known, its a sub-ground float. here is the oldest reference to it that I know of
http://smashboards.com/threads/new-techniques-ghost-floating-and-ghost-landing.171580/#post-4547928

and here is a video from last month that @The Irish Mafia posted on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1582476295345704/permalink/1645689285691071/

in case you cant see the facebook link, here is his post:

Whatup all, here's a bit of tech I've been fooling around with.
Shbair has a large iasa window at the end but never enough to do anything but jump. The use I've found for this is to float out of the first 6 descending frames of peaches doublejump. When done right this let's you float at a height lower than groundfloat. There are other ways to do this but I believe this setup is practical, and achieves a certain happy medium in terms of results. I can go into more depth about that later, just know this particular height I end up at in this video is insanely useful as you will land the frame you drop float regardless of fastfall.
When people say "peaches fair is +4 on block", this is the fair float height they're talking about.

tldr, whiff a shorthop bair, get a frame perfect float cancel.
the risk is trading and losing your float and doublejump. the reward is getting the most advantage on block possible in super smash bros melee.
conceptually, taking a risk with the first part of the sequence gives you an insanely strong 2nd part which will guarantee the 3rd.

for comparison, dropping a groundfloat with no fastfall takes 10 frames to land, landing on the 11th. a perfectly fastfallen groundfloat takes 3 frames to land, inputting fastfall the frame after jump is released

basically its a way to set this up on any stage, not just ys. not sure if id say this forces opponents onto platforms or greatly increases her stage control, but its definitely a neat trick for shield pressure

 

[TrashWizard]

this has been known, its a sub-ground float. here is the oldest reference to it that I know of
http://smashboards.com/threads/new-techniques-ghost-floating-and-ghost-landing.171580/#post-4547928

and here is a video from last month that @The Irish Mafia posted on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1582476295345704/permalink/1645689285691071/

in case you cant see the facebook link, here is his post:


basically its a way to set this up on any stage, not just ys. not sure if id say this forces opponents onto platforms or greatly increases her stage control, but its definitely a neat trick for shield pressure

Thanks for clarifying that this is an existing tech.

Also, just to elabourate on the stage control, it just allows her to ward off opponents with bair and bair during the sub ground float basically removes the lag at the end of the move, allowing Peach to follow up with anything, including shield if they are going to attack, and it gives a lower hitbox surface area, meaning that certain moves might not hit Peach, which to be honest improves her already good stage control, potentially to the extent of conditioning the opponent to staying on platforms if used to its fullest extent.

Has there been any examples of this tech being used in high level play?

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

Thanks for clarifying that this is an existing tech.

Also, just to elabourate on the stage control, it just allows her to ward off opponents with bair and bair during the sub ground float basically removes the lag at the end of the move, allowing Peach to follow up with anything, including shield if they are going to attack, and it gives a lower hitbox surface area, meaning that certain moves might not hit Peach, which to be honest improves her already good stage control, potentially to the extent of conditioning the opponent to staying on platforms if used to its fullest extent.

Has there been any examples of this tech being used in high level play?

mafia is playing around with it, but not sure how useful its been in high level play for him.

keep in mind that this is nearly identical to a normal low float bair, the only difference is that your float cancels can get a frame or two more advantage on shield since you don't have to fall as far to the floor. its going to help with shield pressure because of this, but i cannot think of a situation where it will be any better for stage control than a normal low float bair.

the reason for this is that it still exposes you to the same dangers as low float bair, and being in subground float doesnt actually 'hide' anything. as you can see in the attached image, she doesnt have a hurtbox where her skirt is while in float ( I think you meant to say that it hides her hurtbox, not her hitbox). it only shifts her entire hurtbox downward by a few pixels, so despite looking like she is clipping through the stage, very little if any of the hurtbox is actually 'underground' (MAYBE it will be low enough to duck under some hitboxes, im not sure)

the yellow area is where she can be hit in float, you can see this in debug mode too or hitbox viewing in 20XX