The accepted Project M Stage List has been in place since Apex, but it looks like TOs are ready to start looking for change. Two major weekly tournaments, Xanadu and Smashing Grounds, are making alterations to their stage lists. This begs the question: is there room for stages to continue changing in the coming months?
Only 14 of these stages are acceptable according to the Apex ruleset. Is there room for more?
The Winds of Change
In recent weeks, two of the largest weeklies in the country have changed their stage lists from the Apex 2014 standard. The NZA, who is the TO of Smashing Grounds in Massachusetts, believes that further exploration of counterpicking possibilities will create a richer experience for players. "We create a stage list in order to test players in the greatest variety of ways while still making the game enjoyable and entertaining. The key is to maximize the forms of interaction between players, while still making it feel fair," he said.
Strong Bad, a well-known PMBR member, feels similarly. "'Bottom two rows legal' does not an optimal stage list make. A couple stages that really shouldn't be legal are, while stages that are more worthy candidates are doomed to 3rd-row bannage for no reason other than their physical position on the stage selection screen. In my opinion, Dracula's Castle, Distant Planet, and Metal Cavern are all better competitive stages than Pokemon Stadium 1 or Skyloft."
Xanadu's most current stage list removed the normally acceptable Pokemon Stadium 1 and Skyloft, replacing them with Distant Planet and Dracula's Castle. Smashing Grounds currently has PS1 and Skyword banned, while allowing Dracula's Castle.
What Else Should Be Considered?
If stage lists are to change, there are several questions to be considered. Should more counterpicks be added? Should there be a cap to the number of stages allowed in a single stage list? Should neutrals stay the same? What about the number of bans?
TKBreezy, the voice of Project M and TO/Commentator of Xanadu, had this to say: "If we can work out a good stage-to-ban ratio then we wouldn't have to worry about a cap. However I think two rows of stages, one being neutral and one being counter pick, is an excellent format. Let's just keep going with that." This would allow the current three-ban system to stay in place. "The Brawl in me says bring back Pictochat, but other than that I have no desire to really see any other banned stages return," he continued.
Would you be excited to see Pictochat in teams?
Strong Bad favors a more streamlined approach: "I personally go for 12-13 stages, with two bans. I think any more than two stage bans is unnecessary at this point in the game's lifespan. Most tournaments run 12-14ish stages; this means 28-33% of the legal stages get banned by players after the first game. You're also more likely to see situations of ban redundancy. For example, if you add Draculas Castle, Rumble Falls, Metal Cavern and increase the amount of bans, in many matchups these bans are simply used to ban similar stages. Players will ban Yoshi's Story/FoD/WarioWare/Metal Cavern if they're avoiding small stages, and Rumble Falls/Dreamland/Skyworld/Dracula's Castle if they're avoiding large stages."
The NZA, on the other hand, sees an opportunity for more sweeping stage changes. "Our goal with Smashing Grounds is to have new seasons bi-monthly that are accompanied by map pool changes, similar to professional Starcraft 2. This allows us to test the validity of several stages as 'fair' counterpicks and neutrals," he said.
"Every page one stage could potentially be adopted into Smashing Grounds’ future map pool. We are also not shy about rotating our starter list, and come this Thursday (that's tonight!) you can expect us to lose a starter and adopt a new one for Season 2."
Do We Need to Change at All?
Not every player is chomping at the bit for new counterpicks. GimR, head of the popular VGBootcamp stream, is just as happy to do without. "I'm one to only like Neutrals. I'm very quick to think a 'stupid' stage should be banned." He is not the only one to share that sentiment. "There is a rift between what the players want in my opinion, and it sort of comes from whatever game that person came from," explains TKBreezy. "Brawl players like diversity in stages and wanna see things like Castle Siege and Pictochat while many Melee players seem to be fine with just the neutral stages."
While changes in the tournament format may be exciting, it is important to keep our collective eye on what is important. The goal of diverse counterpicks is to keep gameplay from becoming stale. However, TKBreezy believes that focusing too much on stages may be missing the point. "[Crazy counterpicks] are not what makes this game exciting. It's the characters, the diversity in combos, the improvement you see in players as they continue to grow in the scene. A couple of jank stages isn't going to spice up the life of an already spiced up game."
No matter what version of Smash it may be, amazing moments between competitors are what make it great.
With even more stages on the way, there is sure to be even more debate on stages and whether they should be neutrals, counterpicks or banned. What stages would you like to see used in the next big tournament? Or do you think that counter picks are annoying enough as is? Make your opinion heard in the comments below!
*Writer's Note* A huge shout out to Strong Bad, The NZA, TKBreezy and GimR for taking time out of their busy lives to discuss this topic with me. I linked all of their Twitter accounts to their names - go follow them if you want to hear from some of the biggest voices in the Project M community!
The Derrit wants to take people to Norfair and Delfino Plaza. Come talk to him about what stages you want to play in Project M on Twitter at @TheDerrit!
In recent weeks, two of the largest weeklies in the country have changed their stage lists from the Apex 2014 standard. The NZA, who is the TO of Smashing Grounds in Massachusetts, believes that further exploration of counterpicking possibilities will create a richer experience for players. "We create a stage list in order to test players in the greatest variety of ways while still making the game enjoyable and entertaining. The key is to maximize the forms of interaction between players, while still making it feel fair," he said.
Strong Bad, a well-known PMBR member, feels similarly. "'Bottom two rows legal' does not an optimal stage list make. A couple stages that really shouldn't be legal are, while stages that are more worthy candidates are doomed to 3rd-row bannage for no reason other than their physical position on the stage selection screen. In my opinion, Dracula's Castle, Distant Planet, and Metal Cavern are all better competitive stages than Pokemon Stadium 1 or Skyloft."
Xanadu's most current stage list removed the normally acceptable Pokemon Stadium 1 and Skyloft, replacing them with Distant Planet and Dracula's Castle. Smashing Grounds currently has PS1 and Skyword banned, while allowing Dracula's Castle.
What Else Should Be Considered?
If stage lists are to change, there are several questions to be considered. Should more counterpicks be added? Should there be a cap to the number of stages allowed in a single stage list? Should neutrals stay the same? What about the number of bans?
TKBreezy, the voice of Project M and TO/Commentator of Xanadu, had this to say: "If we can work out a good stage-to-ban ratio then we wouldn't have to worry about a cap. However I think two rows of stages, one being neutral and one being counter pick, is an excellent format. Let's just keep going with that." This would allow the current three-ban system to stay in place. "The Brawl in me says bring back Pictochat, but other than that I have no desire to really see any other banned stages return," he continued.
Would you be excited to see Pictochat in teams?
The NZA, on the other hand, sees an opportunity for more sweeping stage changes. "Our goal with Smashing Grounds is to have new seasons bi-monthly that are accompanied by map pool changes, similar to professional Starcraft 2. This allows us to test the validity of several stages as 'fair' counterpicks and neutrals," he said.
"Every page one stage could potentially be adopted into Smashing Grounds’ future map pool. We are also not shy about rotating our starter list, and come this Thursday (that's tonight!) you can expect us to lose a starter and adopt a new one for Season 2."
Do We Need to Change at All?
Not every player is chomping at the bit for new counterpicks. GimR, head of the popular VGBootcamp stream, is just as happy to do without. "I'm one to only like Neutrals. I'm very quick to think a 'stupid' stage should be banned." He is not the only one to share that sentiment. "There is a rift between what the players want in my opinion, and it sort of comes from whatever game that person came from," explains TKBreezy. "Brawl players like diversity in stages and wanna see things like Castle Siege and Pictochat while many Melee players seem to be fine with just the neutral stages."
While changes in the tournament format may be exciting, it is important to keep our collective eye on what is important. The goal of diverse counterpicks is to keep gameplay from becoming stale. However, TKBreezy believes that focusing too much on stages may be missing the point. "[Crazy counterpicks] are not what makes this game exciting. It's the characters, the diversity in combos, the improvement you see in players as they continue to grow in the scene. A couple of jank stages isn't going to spice up the life of an already spiced up game."
With even more stages on the way, there is sure to be even more debate on stages and whether they should be neutrals, counterpicks or banned. What stages would you like to see used in the next big tournament? Or do you think that counter picks are annoying enough as is? Make your opinion heard in the comments below!
*Writer's Note* A huge shout out to Strong Bad, The NZA, TKBreezy and GimR for taking time out of their busy lives to discuss this topic with me. I linked all of their Twitter accounts to their names - go follow them if you want to hear from some of the biggest voices in the Project M community!
The Derrit wants to take people to Norfair and Delfino Plaza. Come talk to him about what stages you want to play in Project M on Twitter at @TheDerrit!
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If the PMBR figured out a way to have a stage hazards switch. Here's a list of examples off the top of my head listed below:
