Squirtle Advanced Techniques, Strategies, and Cool Names for Things - Video Added!

[dettadeus]

Some of this is grabbed from the Brawl Pokemon Trainer guide, the rest is P:M specific or otherwise not directly grabbed from the Brawl guide.

Dash Pivot Stuff (ShellShifting etc)

Spoiler

Shellshift

Description- Squirtle goes into his shell out of a dash as he pivots in the opposite direction.
How to perform- Hit back on the analog stick while you're dashing. This is Squirtle's regular dash pivot, but how quickly and how smoothly he turns is so special that it gets its own name, and allows for many of the following ATs. Shellshifting is simply a way of changing your direction of motion very quickly. Dart in and out of your opponent's range and try to bait attacks or read patterns that can be exploited later on. Note that you can dash in the original direction again if you change directions while still in the pivot animation, or you can wait for the pivot animation to finish and pivot again to change directions. Mix it up, and use Squirtle's great manouverability to your advantage.
Project: M Addition: Shellshifting has a 3% hitbox right as he turns around.​

Shellstalling

Description- Squirtle enters his shell as he does in his shellshift, but stays in it and doesn't move at all for about half a second.
How to perform- Do a pivot but let the analog stick return to neutral as quickly as possible.
Alternate method: While holding an Attack input and running, flick the C-Stick in the direction opposite to that which you are running in and continue to hold the control stick in the original direction. This causes a very long stall. (during any point of a Shellstall, you can move the control stick into the direction you would have ShellShifted in and you will begin moving as if you had performed a normal ShellShift)​

Shellslinging

Description- Squirtle is dashing forwards, then quickly jumps forward while turning around, getting a sort of "sling" to his jump.
How to perform- Dash forwards, then input a pivot and jump and the same time. You shouldn't see Squirtle turn around at all, but when he jumps he'll be facing backwards.
Project: M Addition: ShellDash/SlingDash/Some other cool name for it? : Wavedash in the direction you were running right out of a ShellShift. This gives you a really long wavedash because you have a lot of pre-existing momentum.​

Hydroplane Techniques

Spoiler

Hydroplane u-smash

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he slides a big distance while unleashing a u-smash. The u-smash can be charged or uncharged.
How to perform- Do a shellshift, and when you're heading in the opposite direction (but still in the pivot animation), input Up+A at the same time. Hold A if you want to charge it. If you turn Tap Jump off, you'll need to hit Up+Jump(X/Y)+A. How much you slide depends on the timing of your Up+A - maximum distance should be about 2/3 of Final Destination. This applies to all hydroplane techniques - timing is important.​

Hydroplane d-smash

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he slides a big distance while unleashing a d-smash. The d-smash can be charged or uncharged.
How to perform- Do a shellshift, and when you're heading in the opposite direction, hit the c-stick at a 45 degree angle between the down position and the position opposite from where you're facing. If you want to charge the d-smash, press Z as you c-stick and hold it. This can travel nearly the entire length of FD if timed perfectly (and charged).​

Hydroplane f-smash

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he slides a big distance while charging an f-smash, eventually releasing it.
How to perform- Do a shellshift, and when you're heading in the opposite direction, hit the c-stick away from where you're facing and hold Z (or any Attack input). You should be charging an f-smash aimed backwards. Note that the f-smash must be charged because it stops any sliding momentum you have when you release it. Aiming the f-smash forward (in the direction of your slide) is also possible. You need to input an extra direction - just before you c-stick you'll want to hit backwards one more time, then c-stick in the forward direction. The time between the backwards on the analog stick and the forwards on the c-stick should be so small that Squirtle doesn't actually turn around a second time. So to smash forwards, you need to shellshift, then hit backwards on the analog stick, forwards on the c-stick and Z, basically all at the same time. This can reach about 3/4 the length of FD when fully charged and timed perfectly.​

Forward Hydroplane u-smash

Description- Squirtle quickly propels himself forward out of a dash and unleashes a u-smash. He propels himself in the direction he was dashing.
How to perform- While dashing forward, quickly input backwards on the analog stick followed by Up+A. This should be done as quickly as possible for the maximum slide distance. What you're doing is you're shellshifting, cancelling your shellshift with a jump, then cancelling your jump with a u-smash. If you're having trouble with your inputs, think of it as a quarter circle. If you're dashing to the right, you need to do a quarter circle from left to up and hit A. Alternatively, you could hit diagonally up-back on the analog stick while pressing Y+A at the same time. This will register the pivot with your analog stick still in a position to u-smash, while jumping with Y. This is how you'll need to do it if you turn Tap Jump Off.​

Hydrojab

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he does his jab while still getting the same slide as the hydroplanes.
How to perform- Perform a shellshift, but instead of hitting straight backwards to pivot, hit diagonally backwards-down. Once you're heading the other direction, with the analog stick still held diagonally, hit diagonally backwards-down on the c-stick. To be clear, your analog stick and c-stick should both be pointing diagonally side-down, one on each side, separated by 90 degrees. This can also be done with the analog stick diagonally-up, so your analog and c-stick would form a 180 degree angle instead.​

Hydrotilt

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he does his Forward Tilt while getting a slightly shorter slide than other Hydroplanes (but the momentum is constant; he doesn't slow down until the end of the animation)
How to perform- Perform a shellshift, and right before you exit your shell, gently tilt the control stick backwards and press A. This will cause you to slide backwards while performing a Forward Tilt. His other tilts do not get a noticeable slide from this method.​

Itemplane

Description- Squirtle can perform the hydroplane f-smash while holding an item too. This is most useful in the Diddy Kong matchup, where you can keep holding the bananas while hydroplaning.
How to perform- Same inputs as the hydroplane f-smash.​

Hydrotoss

Description- Squirtle will slide the distance of a hydroplane while tossing a held item up or down. Again this is most useful in the Diddy Kong matchup, as it can be used with bananas.
How to perform- Follow the same inputs as a hydroplane u-smash to hydrotoss up, or a hydroplane d-smash to toss down.​

Hydrograb

Description- Out of a pivot, Squirtle lunges forward while doing a grab. If the grab lands, he'll slide with his opponent a decent distance. If you reach the edge and they break out when you still have momentum, you'll both fall off, which can lead to a footstool gimp.
How to perform- Do a shellshift, then hit R and c-stick away from the direction you're facing.​

Jump-Cancelled Hydrograb

Description- Out of a ShellShift, Squirtle performs a JC Grab and slides a massive distance. If you run into an edge you will likely slide off and momentum is generally preserved even when you perform a throw.
How to perform- Do a ShellShift, then perform a JC Grab (X/Y + Z).​

Note: Due to the lack of buffering in P:M, the True Hydroplane technically cannot be performed. However, there is a similar technique (the HydroPivot) explained below which achieves essentially the same effect.
True Hydroplane

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he stands up and slides the length of a hydroplane. He is in his standing animation while he slides, so he can do any move.
How to perform- Perform a shellshift, and just before you come out of your pivot, buffer a pivot by hitting back on the analog stick one more time. Timing is the important factor here - if you input the last direction too quickly you won't get much of a slide, and if you input it too late you'll simply initiate a dash backwards.​

HydroPivot

Description- As Squirtle comes out of a ShellShift, he performs a short standing pivot animation while retaining full momentum from the SS. It's possible to travel the entire length of FD with this if timed absolutely perfectly.
How to perform- While holding an Attack input (A or another button set to Attack), perform a ShellShift, and towards the very end (possibly right as Squirtle comes out of his shell), flick the C-Stick diagonally up and backward to the direction you face after the SS.​

Video version - Everything but Itemplane, Hydrotoss, and HydroGrab
Feel free to suggest stuff to add (and also a good name for the SlingDashing thing?)

 

[Translucent]

This is pretty cool, I don't have to find the brawl thread when I want to see this data. I can't wait for more things to be added as we discover more.

 

[Eaode]

Isn't there a 3-frame buffer option? So is true Hydroplaning still possible?

 

[Translucent]

I think dettadeus was able to do a true hydroplane once he said.

 

[dettadeus]

With the 3 frame buffer it might be possible, although most people don't play with buffer.
I did say I thought I did it once. It may be possible, but it would have to be frame perfect due to having no buffering.

 

[Translucent]

Yeah it seems like it would be hard as balls to be able to do consistently.

 

[DoH]

I am too old to learn all this technical bull****!

 

[dettadeus]

it's not even technical

it's just flicking the control or cstick around for most of them

 

[DoH]

Gurl I play Peach

 

[dettadeus]

float forward > fair with cstick > floatcancel > dsmash

that's about as hard as most things in the OP

 

[bubbaking]

DoH, after seeing what you do at HYPERPhoenix, you struck me as really technical for a Peach. It was a refreshing change from watching Ben Grimm dsmash all day.

@Dettadeus: Are there any terms here that people have been using abbreviations for? In case you aren't already aware, I have a Terms, Abbreviations, and Concepts thread that I am trying to update with all the new char stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

float forward > fair with cstick > floatcancel > dsmash

that's about as hard as most things in the OP

I'm no Peach player, but why does Peach need to fair with the C-stick? If she's floating forwards already, can't she just fair with the control stick and dsmash with the C-stick?

 

[dettadeus]

fairing with the cstick would make it as hard as most squirtle techs

 

[Dubforce]

Waveslinging:

What it does: Make's you slide farther after wavedashing
How it is done: Run in either direction > input a pivot > immediately wavedash in either direction

This basically is an idea I got from shellslinging. It uses the initial momentum of his pivot to make him slide more. The makes his wavedash move about 3/4 of FD if you time it perfectly. The frame you want seems to be the third or fourth frame of the pivot animation.

EDIT: I see you already added this. Sorry for the wasted post.

EDIT 2: Not really a wasted post. Waveslinging is definitely a cooler name. Also you don't have to WD the way you were already moving as the extra momentum carries over in either direction.

 

[Translucent]

Is there any use for squirtle dash grab over his JC grab?

 

[Dubforce]

Is there any use for squirtle dash grab over his JC grab?

Not unless you're doing the odd brawl AT where you press R and c-stick out of SS. I think that counts as a dash grab. However, I can't get it to work in PM, so I just JC grab or pivot grab.

Also, you can shield out of SS, so its easier (for me) to just shield-grab instead of JC grab out of a SS that has made contact.

 

[Translucent]

I feel we should put how to get Squirtle shades on here so everyone can know and be a better squirtle.

 

[bubbaking]

Agreed.

 

[dettadeus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2oDf7ILu4A

 

[traffic.]

I'm going to try and put together some footage soon as well, at this point hydroing everywhere is just going to be pretty staple play with squirtle, traditional dash dancing is obsolete with the cancels you can do with this stuff. you should work on your jump cancel timing for those smashes, your usmash should get about twice the distance during the slide, and your dsmash can be charged with Z to keep momentum as well. boost grab off the return sling should also get about twice that length, the JC timing feels different for me still, but i'm dialing it in. good job compiling all the moves like that though, its helpful to see some of the techs ive not practised yet, and gives me a few ideas to work into my play.

 

[Translucent]

Good video detta, that hydro pivot gave you a crazy long slide...

 

[dettadeus]

you should work on your jump cancel timing for those smashes, your usmash should get about twice the distance during the slide, and your dsmash can be charged with Z to keep momentum as well.

may i direct you to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2oDf7ILu4A&t=2m36s

also i saved this replay at about 1 in the morning several weeks ago so i was probably too tired to get everything at max distance

also also i claw to do hydroplane fsmash and dsmash, charging with A

Good video detta, that hydro pivot gave you a crazy long slide...

that's why it's the best hydroplane technique

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Do we really need all those different names for techniques? No one's going to remember them all, and they're all just Shellshift->JC->Something, Shellshift->RAR->Something, or Shellshift->Run Cancel->Something.

And traditional dash dancing is still useful, not obsolete. There are plenty of times it's useful and shellshifting isn't. We just have a second option, whereas most characters can only dash dance.

 

[traffic.]

obsolete was definitely a strong term, obviously any kind of back and forth pivot dash janks are dash dancing just the same, in the same way falcons have moonwalking to add to their run mixups. as far as "what the hell is he doing" goes, dashdancing is fairly easy to read and understand, some of the pivot/dash cancels squirtle can do are just plain confusing to look at it, throw in a few rolls and a hop or two and it can be very hard to know where he's going next. same mixup, stronger effect than the standard <<>> game.

I completely agree with reducing the amount of names being thrown around. hydroplaning is pretty good for describing the whole momentum slide system, but coming up with names for each move is excessive. for notation's sake, we'll just make things really simple and call it pivdchpjcupsmashing someone. Yeah. B-)

 

[dettadeus]

The general prefix is Hydro-whatever. Hydroplane F/D/USmash, HydroGrab/Jab/Tilt/Pivot etc are basically the same term since they use the root Hydro, it's just specifying what you're doing with the Hydroplane momentum.
And it's not like anyone came up with these terms recently. They've been in circulation since early 2008. The only new ones are the P:M specific ones.

 

[traffic.]

Yeah it was in reference to pivot > jump warranting a name, or pivot WD being something else, or pivot pivoting is a slingshifteroo. there is nothing significant enough about the act of turning around quickly and doing something afterwards to give it a name and call it an Advanced Technique.






Unless you're playing barlw

 

[dettadeus]

How can Waveland be its own term and SlingDash can't? They both give a different amount of momentum from a normal wavedash.

It's not like Melee didn't have its fair share of sparklewavecopterdashes.

 

[traffic.]

well the difference is that one is a universal mechanic and the other is one character's slight take on said mechanic. I'm hardly johnsing over it, it's just more comparable to calling luigi's wavedash a weegeedeegee because it's different. from a strictly mechanical input perspective, fastfalling and airdodging perfectly into the ground and platforms is universal and all characters have their own slight variation of the technique. However because it's something everybody can do, and takes a substantial amount of work to incorporate into regular gameplay, it warrants being called something and described as advanced.

I'm not taking away your names for things, I just think there's a pretty big difference between wavedashing and one character's abuse of the friction system

 

[JayMan-X]

Yeah, but... how the heck do you describe SlingDashing without that name?

 

[traffic.]

pivot wavedash... playing squirtle. it's not a complicated process. some of these names in no way describe what it is you're doing, and convolute the entire idea of naming techniques. making up new names to describe basic concepts based on which character is doing them is totally unnecessary. keep it simple, concise and universal terms for the techniques being done make it easier for newcomers to understand whats going on, and stops the oldcomers from shaking their heads.

 

[dettadeus]

Because Space Animal Slayer totally describes U-Throw > Rest to the point of a new player understanding it without it being explained. And Wavedashing totally describes air dodging into the ground.
Advanced Technique names are never completely intuitive. We have ShellSlinging, which is just Squirtle's Reverse Aerial Rush, which is just every character's jump-cancelled dash pivot. And we have Wavedashing, which is just every character's jump into airdodge into the ground. Combine the two for SlingDashing, which produces a noticeably different effect from either of its contributing techniques on their own.

 

[traffic.]

So why exactly do we need more names for the same thing? right?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Who calls u-throw rest "Space Animal Slayer"?

 

[JayMan-X]

no but Slingdash is only out of shellshift, and youre doing it b4 you start turning around
Slingdash is the fast way to say it. Slingdash or SlingJump

Edit: u could just call it a Forward Shell Shifted RAR Wavedash/Jump, but thats soo long. I understand why nicknaming things like Snake's Dacus "Snaking" bcuz u could just say Snake's Dacus, but in this case its soo much easier to just call it a Slingdash

 

[dettadeus]

So why exactly do we need more names for the same thing? right?

It's either SlingDash or Jump Cancelled Dash Pivot into Airdodge into the ground (JCDPiAitg).

Pick your poison.

Who calls u-throw rest "Space Animal Slayer"?

Last time I checked, most of the competitive Melee community?

 

[traffic.]

The issue that melee/brawlers get into is that in melee, wavedashing is just how you move around. you do it off platforms, you do it back and forth to dashdance, and you do it to get around faster and space your attacks. you don't throw a wavedash into the mix like it's some complex part of a combo, you do it because if you do not, your opponent will have a distinct speed advantage over you and crush you. there is no special name for wavelanding a platform, or some trick tech for wavedashing and then turning around and wavedashing again. these things don't need names, because they are basic components of high level play, just like you dont have top secret move names for when you go running and occasionally turn a corner.

so if turning around is an advanced technique, then what do you consider hard combos? half of these "techniques" are nearly useless considering your opponent is not going to let you dash around the stage back and forth so you can hit him with a super fast jab 1. using the momentum boost for a boost grab and usmash are the only things on this list with real application, occasionally fsmash if you can KO to the side, but usmash is faster and has wilder knockback. i feel confused by the term advanced being applied to these, especially considering they are the first thing any squirtle player will pick up.

pivoting with squirtle is a great addition to his dash game, and can give him a little extra zing in the right direction, but once you commit to using it to launch an usmash across the stage, you need to know you can land it, and its usually only useful when your opponent is ready to be KO'd, and doing everything he can to space you.

and again, if you're hydroplaning an usmash for the momentum boost, anyone you are talking to about squirtle moves already knows that he does it super fast and slides everywhere. and anyone who doesnt know, it's the first thing you explain about squirtle. so yeah, i really dont think we need to apply names and terms to every move squirtle can do when hydroplane sums up all of the janks his pivot does, and the second part is the name of the move anyway. just concerned with the playerbase that finds this "advanced" and thinks they are speaking for the competitive scene.


edit- for the record, i'm really not trying to be a **** about anything, i dont care what you guys call ****, there's enough ridiculous terminology being thrown around the boards that i tend to ignore most of it until i see a video where someone does something awesome and then tells everyone else how to do it. i just want to set the expectation a little higher as to what an advanced technique is really referring to, in that they are not sweet moves you do to get your opponent, they are additional components to your core gameplay that will provide you with a solid edge if you can control them.

 

[bubbaking]

Hydro- and SS. That's literally all I need.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Last time I checked, most of the competitive Melee community?

lol, I've been part of the competitive melee community for 6 years, my training partner for a long time was a puff main, and I've never heard it called that (sorry for derailing the discussion, I just thought that was a really strange example).

 

[dettadeus]

changed the title

hopefully this fixes things

 

[RaphaelRobo]

There's a problem with that title. It implies the names are cool.

To be serious, though, having all those separate terms makes the post look really cluttered. If you really want to stick with having all those names for things, then why not combine them into a few sections, such as the JC section, the RAR section, etc. Throw each section in a collapse tag, and suddenly the post becomes much easier to look at and read through.

And I've never heard the term space animal slayer.

 

[JayMan-X]

Yeah putting them in groups would help it look much more organized and easier to read.
I say you should separate them by Smashes, Jump Cancels, and Pivots.

And @ traffic, its not that we are naming it because its a "technique", I would think that giving it a name is mainly just to identify what it is, because describing it without that name takes too many words and if you just call it RARing out of SS, it becomes a little vague.

Anyways, lets quit talking about nicknames and start talking more Squirtle