Source Gaming: Alph Was Once A Full-Blown Clone!

[LiteralGrill]

Source Gaming is constantly finding awesome information on Smash and providing translations for all to enjoy. Masked Man (known as @Aeris on Smashboards) recently released an article with some interesting information involving Olimar and Alph in Smash 4. To learn all about how Alph was once being worked on as a full on clone character you can read a preview of the article below.

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Hey all! Masked Man here.

The team has been reviewing some of Sakurai’s Super Smash Bros. for Wii U / 3DS design documents, and we’ve discovered that Alph was once considered as a potential full-blown clone character!

We hadn’t realized until reading through several separate interviews and comparing the terminology Sakurai uses to describe clone characters (モデル替え/”model swap”) and palette swaps (カラーバリエーション/”color variation”). Sound like an arbitrarily confusing-yet-subtle semantic difference? Rest assured you aren’t alone in thinking so!

In addition, I mentioned this in a previous article, but Rock Pikmin were also considered for inclusion. As originally planned, Rock Pikmin would be heavy and short-ranged, but extremely powerful. Ultimately, however, they were scrapped, presumably due to time constraints.

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Want the rest of the information? Be sure to check out the full article over at Source Gaming. While you're there consider supporting Source Gaming's efforts on Patreon as they provide all of these amazing translations and articles absolutely free.

SmashCapps always loves all of the articles from Source Gaming as they are incredibly high quality and interesting work. To keep up with his own writing adventures follow him on Twitter.

 

[ChikoLad]

I already expressed my thoughts on this elsewhere yesterday, but this was a huge missed opportunity. Alph could have made for much more interesting clone potential than any of the ones we got, in part because the character he would have been based off of is already quite unique and intricate. While Mario, Pit, and Marth are all pretty standard characters, meaning you can't really make interesting clones of them.

 

[Nelkoy]

I wish Lucina and Dark Pit were palette swaps too...

 

[Arcadenik]

What a shame... I would have enjoyed as a Rock-only clone of .

 

[Yoshister]

Dang, I would've liked to see Alph as a separate character.

 

[ewItsBoo]

If only Dark Pit was a palette swap....

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Would have been better than this thing ->

 

[C_Mill24]

If he were implemented as a full clone, people would complain anyway.

 

[ChikoLad]

If he were implemented as a full clone, people would complain anyway.

The only reason people don't like the clones we got this time is because they were all poorly executed. If Alph was a clone and was well executed, it would have been fine.

 

[Sakuraichu]

Rock Pikmin would make him more unique than two of the three clones we have now.

 

[Sp1nda]

It would actually have made Alph more interesting as a clone, since he has a different gimmick than Olimar.
Oh well, I'd rather have new characters than another clone tbh.
Wouldn't we all though?

 

[Thegreenblur]

I like how most people are complaining about Dark Pit YET most of you use him anyways. Besides, Sakurai said they took almost no time to make. No Harm done so stop complaining.

 

[Nefnoj]

The only moment where people aren't complaining about clones, haha! I, too, would've preferred Alph a clone. Smash 4 Olimar was pretty disappointing compared to the Project M and Brawl versions.

 

[U-Throw]

Personally, if I were in charge of designing Alph as a clone, I'd do something like this...

-Alph would have Flying and Rock Pikmin in place of White and Purple ones.

-Flying Pikmin would take flight when thrown, and would home in on nearby enemies. However, they would be a little slower than other types of Pikmin. These Pikmin would be abnormally weak when used during regular attacks, but would also fly much farther than normal.

-Rock Pikmin wouldn't fly very far, and they wouldn't latch onto opponents, but they would meteor smash airborne enemies, bury grounded ones, and inflict high shield damage. When used during regular attacks, Rock Pikmin would be stronger than other types of Pikmin.

-Alph would also have a 1/10 chance of plucking a Yellow Pikmin holding a Bomb Rock, which would explode after a few seconds or after touching an opponent, causing the Bomb Rock to explode, killing the Yellow Pikmin and inflicting high damage and knockback on anyone within the vicinity of the explosion.

-Finally, Alph would have Dizzy Whistle as his default Down Special.

 

[90007000]

Would have been better than this thing ->

*Nairo* But I main that thing! ->

 

[Kingslayer77]

Well, this is infuriating, to say the least. If alph was decided to be better as a pallet swap for olimar, why didn't the same happen for lucina? Heck, even chrom could have been made into a alternate costume for marth, much like how the koopalings are just alternate costumes of bowser jr.

 

[Reila]

Would have been better than these things ->

Fixed.

 

[U-Throw]

Well, this is infuriating, to say the least. If alph was decided to be better as a pallet swap for olimar, why didn't the same happen for lucina? Heck, even chrom could have been made into a alternate costume for marth, much like how the koopalings are just alternate costumes of bowser jr.

It's because they prioritized Lucina over Alph. In fact, Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit were all prioritized over Alph. By the time the devs got around to him, it was too late to code in any differences between Alph and Olimar, so they left him as an Olimar Alt. It's all about priority.

Besides, I see no reason to demote Lucina to an Alt. just because Alph is one. It's more reasonable to wish Alph had had priority over Lucina than to wish for less content. I would disagree with you there, but I have no right to disrespect your opinion, so I would simply agree to disagree with you. I don't, however, see the logic in wishing for less content over some arbitrary reason. Perhaps you could help me understand your thought process better?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

*Nairo* But I main that thing! ->

Pit fans: Screw that, use the real deal

 

[mario123007]

The only reason people don't like the clones we got this time is because they were all poorly executed. If Alph was a clone and was well executed, it would have been fine.

Yeah, I actually hope that Dark Pit and Lucina had slightly a bit different moveset compare to their clone counterpart.
Just look at how they remade Roy, and Falco and Ganondorf. Even though they also got criticize because they were clone back in Melee, but after some refining. They are really good clone characters.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's because they prioritized Lucina over Alph. In fact, Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit were all prioritized over Alph. By the time the devs got around to him, it was too late to code in any differences between Alph and Olimar, so they left him as an Olimar Alt. It's all about priority.

Besides, I see no reason to demote Lucina to an Alt. just because Alph is one. It's more reasonable to wish Alph had had priority over Lucina than to wish for less content. I would disagree with you there, but I have no right to disrespect your opinion, so I would simply agree to disagree with you. I don't, however, see the logic in wishing for less content over some arbitrary reason. Perhaps you could help me understand your thought process better?

Lucina, how she is now, barely counts as "content", since she doesn't do anything meaningful as a clone or otherwise. Roy's inclusion really didn't help her either, and only further displayed how poor of a clone she was.

 

[U-Throw]

Lucina, how she is now, barely counts as "content", since she doesn't do anything meaningful as a clone or otherwise. Roy's inclusion really didn't help her either, and only further displayed how poor of a clone she was.

Well, first of all, Lucina was designed to be a "beginners' Marth." She has her niche. Moreover, demoting her to an Alt. and making her a complete carbon copy certainly isn't adding anything to the game. There's really no reason to do something like that.

 

[Kingslayer77]

It's because they prioritized Lucina over Alph. In fact, Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit were all prioritized over Alph. By the time the devs got around to him, it was too late to code in any differences between Alph and Olimar, so they left him as an Olimar Alt. It's all about priority.

Besides, I see no reason to demote Lucina to an Alt. just because Alph is one. It's more reasonable to wish Alph had had priority over Lucina than to wish for less content. I would disagree with you there, but I have no right to disrespect your opinion, so I would simply agree to disagree with you. I don't, however, see the logic in wishing for less content over some arbitrary reason. Perhaps you could help me understand your thought process better?

It's not really that i'm upset lucina is in the game as her own character. I'm upset because they didn't even bother giving her different frame data than marth. She is by far the most"clone" caharacter in the game, and as an FE fan, it upsets me greatly.

 

[---]

Probably would have added more than Lucina if only because of Dark Pit not having access to the Three Sacred Treasures, but whatever, visually he's probably harder to tell apart.

 

[U-Throw]

It's not really that i'm upset lucina is in the game as her own character. I'm upset because they didn't even bother giving her different frame data than marth. She is by far the most"clone" caharacter in the game, and as an FE fan, it upsets me greatly.

I see. That's a reasonable complain, I suppose. In that case, I agree. I personally have no problem with clones, and I do like the niche that Lucina fills, but I'll respect your stance on the subject. There's always next game.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well, first of all, Lucina was designed to be a "beginners' Marth." She has her niche. Moreover, demoting her to an Alt. and making her a complete carbon copy certainly isn't adding anything to the game. There's really no reason to do something like that.

Marth isn't all that hard to use. Even if you don't know how to do the tipper thing, you can still do fine with him casually (and casuals are the only ones who need "beginner friendly" stuff anyway). He's the last character that needed training wheels. There is also the fact that Marth's attack animations and frame data are built with spacing for the tipper in mind. They didn't alter this at all for Lucina's tipper-less playstyle, which makes her flawed by design, since you still need to space in order to not whiff your attacks and get punished. So no, I really don't feel she added anything there. Especially since she is an unlockable character, and the most reliable way of unlocking her involves using Marth. The easiest and quickest method for unlocking "beginner Marth", is to play as regular Marth.

There's also the fact that, canonically, Lucina fighting one handed, like Marth, doesn't make sense. Her fighting style comes from Chrom, since he is her father, and that is a two handed fighting style primarily. Her render even makes a nod to it:

Lucina's fighting style is that of a fencer (a one handed fighting style) in Smash due to copying Marth's moves. But she fights with a two handed style canonically. Her fighting style doesn't even properly represent her character in Smash. Which actually goes against one of Sakurai's own design philosophies in designing characters for Smash.

 

[U-Throw]

Marth isn't all that hard to use. Even if you don't know how to do the tipper thing, you can still do fine with him casually (and casuals are the only ones who need "beginner friendly" stuff anyway). He's the last character that needed training wheels. There is also the fact that Marth's attack animations and frame data are built with spacing for the tipper in mind. They didn't alter this at all for Lucina's tipper-less playstyle, which makes her flawed by design, since you still need to space in order to not whiff your attacks and get punished. So no, I really don't feel she added anything there. Especially since she is an unlockable character, and the most reliable way of unlocking her involves using Marth. The easiest and quickest method for unlocking "beginner Marth", is to play as regular Marth.

There's also the fact that, canonically, Lucina fighting one handed, like Marth, doesn't make sense. Her fighting style comes from Chrom, since he is her father, and that is a two handed fighting style primarily. Her render even makes a nod to it:

Lucina's fighting style is that of a fencer (a one handed fighting style) in Smash due to copying Marth's moves. But she fights with a two handed style canonically. Her fighting style doesn't even properly represent her character in Smash. Which actually goes against one of Sakurai's own design philosophies in designing characters for Smash.

Fair enough. As a person who's never played a Fire Emblem game, I see nothing unfitting about Lucina using a fencer's fighting style, but I suppose that it could be a little jarring to those who have played Awakening. And, in regards to her niche, I guess you're correct, there, as well. Personally, I see no problem with holding casual players' hands a little bit, but your other points stand.

The bottom line is, demoting Lucina to an Alt. isn't adding anything to the game, regardless of however little she may have added as a clone. Therefore, there's no reason to do such a thing.

 

[gyasim]

The only reason people don't like the clones we got this time is because they were all poorly executed. If Alph was a clone and was well executed, it would have been fine.

He is a pallette swap and there's no rock pikmin for time restraints. So he wouldn't have been executed well. There is evidence of this because the clones that made it in game are not executed well. Dark Pit could've been a really unique character but he isn't. The same would happen with Alph.
Even with Lucina there's a missed opportunity for a good clone, as we see Roy came after her, who is a faster Marth with bigger sweet spots and worse recovery with two different moves.

All clones (Not semi clones) like melee Falco, melee Roy, Young Link, Lucina and Dark Pit could have been executed better. And they weren't . There's no use in noting this one. Alph is better off as a pallette swap, just like every smash brothers clone.

 

[Frostwraith]

Olimar was already difficult enough to implement on the 3DS, so I can see why they didn't give priority to Alph and the Rock Pikmin.

The fact Olimar's moveset is more complex didn't end up favoring Alph. Same can't be said about Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit.

 

[PokÉmblem]

Should have been a seperate character and he's consistent by only using rock pikmin and flying pikmin for up b. Charlie dlc?

 

[ChikoLad]

Fair enough. As a person who's never played a Fire Emblem game, I see nothing unfitting about Lucina using a fencer's fighting style, but I suppose that it could be a little jarring to those who have played Awakening. And, in regards to her niche, I guess you're correct, there, as well. Personally, I see no problem with holding casual players' hands a little bit, but your other points stand.

The bottom line is, demoting Lucina to an Alt. isn't adding anything to the game, regardless of however little she may have added as a clone. Therefore, there's no reason to do such a thing.

I'd rather play as a Lucina that's just as viable as Marth, than a Lucina who is less viable than Marth.

Not that Marth is all that viable, but yeah, she would have added more to the game as an alt. As she is, you constantly have that feeling of "I should eventually just move on to Marth if I want this playstyle to show it's full potential".

He is a pallette swap and there's no rock pikmin for time restraints. So he wouldn't have been executed well. There is evidence of this because the clones that made it in game are not executed well. Dark Pit could've been a really unique character but he isn't. The same would happen with Alph.
Even with Lucina there's a missed opportunity for a good clone, as we see Roy came after her, who is a faster Marth with bigger sweet spots and worse recovery with two different moves.

All clones (Not semi clones) like melee Falco, melee Roy, Young Link, Lucina and Dark Pit could have been executed better. And they weren't . There's no use in noting this one. Alph is better off as a pallette swap, just like every smash brothers clone.

Time constraints is not an argument that is valid due to DLC being a thing that is still happening for this game.

 

[Kingslayer77]

Marth isn't all that hard to use. Even if you don't know how to do the tipper thing, you can still do fine with him casually (and casuals are the only ones who need "beginner friendly" stuff anyway). He's the last character that needed training wheels. There is also the fact that Marth's attack animations and frame data are built with spacing for the tipper in mind. They didn't alter this at all for Lucina's tipper-less playstyle, which makes her flawed by design, since you still need to space in order to not whiff your attacks and get punished. So no, I really don't feel she added anything there. Especially since she is an unlockable character, and the most reliable way of unlocking her involves using Marth. The easiest and quickest method for unlocking "beginner Marth", is to play as regular Marth.

There's also the fact that, canonically, Lucina fighting one handed, like Marth, doesn't make sense. Her fighting style comes from Chrom, since he is her father, and that is a two handed fighting style primarily. Her render even makes a nod to it:

Lucina's fighting style is that of a fencer (a one handed fighting style) in Smash due to copying Marth's moves. But she fights with a two handed style canonically. Her fighting style doesn't even properly represent her character in Smash. Which actually goes against one of Sakurai's own design philosophies in designing characters for Smash.

Thank you! Finally someone says it!

 

[U-Throw]

He is a pallette swap and there's no rock pikmin for time restraints. So he wouldn't have been executed well. There is evidence of this because the clones that made it in game are not executed well. Dark Pit could've been a really unique character but he isn't. The same would happen with Alph.
Even with Lucina there's a missed opportunity for a good clone, as we see Roy came after her, who is a faster Marth with bigger sweet spots and worse recovery with two different moves.

All clones (Not semi clones) like melee Falco, melee Roy, Young Link, Lucina and Dark Pit could have been executed better. And they weren't . There's no use in noting this one. Alph is better off as a pallette swap, just like every smash brothers clone.

I'd like to know how subtracting content that some people, however few they may be, happen to enjoy is making anything better.

 

[gyasim]

Yeah, I actually hope that Dark Pit and Lucina had slightly a bit different moveset compare to their clone counterpart.
Just look at how they remade Roy, and Falco and Ganondorf. Even though they also got criticize because they were clone back in Melee, but after some refining. They are really good clone characters.

What refining did Ganondorf get? They changed Gerudo Dragon too whatever his side b is now, isn't that it?

 

[Kingslayer77]

I'd like to know how subtracting content that some people, however few they may be, happen to enjoy is making anything better.

It isn't really subtracting content, though. As she is, lucina is worthless, and ironically goes against sakurai's mentality for keeping smash characters close to their canon selves. Most people who playlucina over marth don't play her because of the lack of tipper, but because they like her character. Having her be a costume instead of a character wouldn't make them lose anything.

 

[gyasim]

I'd like to know how subtracting content that some people, however few they may be, happen to enjoy is making anything better.

How would that be subtracting content? They are the same characters in the first place, put them on one space in the character select screen. IN a game with custom moves, there is no need for a clone.

 

[gyasim]

Clones only belong in Street Fighter.

 

[U-Throw]

It isn't really subtracting content, though. As she is, lucina is worthless, and ironically goes against sakurai's mentality for keeping smash characters close to their canon selves. Most people who playlucina over marth don't play her because of the lack of tipper, but because they like her character. Having her be a costume instead of a character wouldn't make them lose anything.

How would that be subtracting content? They are the same characters in the first place, put them on one space in the character select screen. IN a game with custom moves, there is no need for a clone.

I know quite a few people who enjoy Lucina's lack of a tipper. They are few, but they exist. Just ask @ミスティック Speed. She greatly enjoys Lucina, and not because of her character. I highly doubt she would main Lucina if she were an Alt. As for the game not needing clones due to Custom Moves, I'd like to point out that most clones' differences extend beyond Special Moves. Dr. Mario, Lucina, and even Dark Pit all have differences that can't be encompassed with Customs.

Besides, Lucina can always be buffed and made viable, even without a tipper. That's a poor reason to demote her to an Alt. The "clones only belong in Street Fighter" argument is illogical to me, so I'm not going to address it until it's elaborated upon such that it makes sense.

 

[gyasim]

I'd rather play as a Lucina that's just as viable as Marth, than a Lucina who is less viable than Marth.

Not that Marth is all that viable, but yeah, she would have added more to the game as an alt. As she is, you constantly have that feeling of "I should eventually just move on to Marth if I want this playstyle to show it's full potential".



Time constraints is not an argument that is valid due to DLC being a thing that is still happening for this game.

Time constraints is totally a valid argument. The game came out the time that it did with the roster that it did so no one would be disappointed when the game was delayed. Clearly they had bigger fish to fry with the DLC after the game came out.

Sakurai has touched on DLC and clones in his Famitsu columns. I am not quoting him directly when I say that he has stated his knowledge of the want of Roy, Lucas and Mewtwo's return during the final days of development. I doubt he knew that a couple people in the comment section of a fansite wanted Alph. And if you do want Alph, you have a direct feed to tell him so with the Smash Ballot.

I didn't even need to say all of this. I could've just put a picture of one of the most popular characters from one of Nintendos most popular franchises (Mewtwo) next to Alph, who is a pallette swap for a game that was ironically delayed for years.

 

[LancerStaff]

The only reason people don't like the clones we got this time is because they were all poorly executed. If Alph was a clone and was well executed, it would have been fine.

People were complaining about Lucina when we thought she took Marth's speed... Similar idea with Dark Pit.

People only wanted Alph because that's not what we got, if you're talking about the initial complaints. Would of whined just as hard if he got in with everybody else.