Smash Wii U - First Hands on Impressions with CT ZeRo

[TSM ZeRo]

CT Zero continues his coverage of the Super Smash Brothers E3 Invitational and his experience with the game. Super Smash Brothers Wii U and 3DS are both currently available to play for those lucky enough to attend E3. For most everyone else, there are still Best Buy Smash-Fests this upcoming Saturday and you can share your experience, or learn from others, on the forums.

Get some advice from the first champion!​

Smash Wii U and 3DS - Game Engine
The game engine was said to be in between Melee and Brawl, and that's a great way to put it. However, the engine is a whole new one that is not like Brawl or Melee - it is unique. It is very sensitive, a minimal push on your controller will make that action happen. So in order to be precise, you must be very gentle with your actions. In previous Smash games, executing certain actions could be complicated, in Smash Wii U, some actions are easier or harder than before. For example, edge guarding is very difficult due to the ledge system kicking the player out when a new one is trying to grab it but pivot tilts are easier. Things like that. The game itself feels very smooth in my hands and looks beautiful. I can tell that there's a lot of effort put behind it and I'm very thankful that I played it this early.

Smash Wii U and 3DS - Stages
Battlefield - For some reason this stage feels smaller than in Brawl, maybe because of character size? Not sure. Looks stunning and is a staple stage in the competitive community. I really liked it how the final stage for Grand Finals of the Invitational was Battlefield. Thank you, Nintendo!

Pilotwings - Such a nice idea of a stage. Plays out very crazy. Players who stay underneath the wings will have the positional advantage here. Other than that, it is pretty similar to Final Destination...in some ways!

Super Mario Bros U - Crazy stage. Lots of movement, platforms, and transformations. You need a good recovery for this one. Due to platforms, I feel that characters that don't have a very strong aerial game tend to be in the disadvantage here. For example: Little Mac.

Wily Castle - The Yellow Devil really affects the matches with its movement and attacks. Overall, you want to stay behind him to avoid damage. This stage promotes heavy camping because of it's hazards!

Coliseum - Walk offs! The different transformations effect characters in different ways. When there are no platforms, Little Mac is very powerful! But when there are, he loses this advantage.

Town & City - The reincarnation of Smashville! Looks awesome. The platforms are actually very fast and it can be dangerous to stay in top of them at times! Overall, this stage offers very interesting and varied gameplay due to the platforms always changing things up with their movement.

Boxing Ring -This stage is huge. It definitely plays out a bit slow since you can camp on the sides. Remember, you can jump from the edges of the ring to jump very high. You can also position yourself at the top of the stage to get yourself out of danger. You can also hit this area to make it fall onto the stage for some KO's! It's powerful, so I'd definitely recommend it. Kirby's up throw is very strong if it lands in this area, so make sure to go for it whenever you can!

ZeRo's Zero Suit Samus took the Smash Invitational by storm!​

Super Smash Brothers Wii U - 5 Characters Tips
ZeRo Suit Samus - You want to use the Side B to space with her, catch spot dodges with your D-Smash, and mix it up with grabs for when they catch on. Go for a Down Throw (or throw them off the stage) and follow up with your aerials. You can combo with her Down B spike, into a double D-Smash followed by a dash attack into an Up Air! Sweet combo.

Mario - He has a great aerial game, especially his Up Air, and has solid Smashes. Overall, you want to grab and throw your opponent above you to maximize your aerial game. And cover the landings with Smashes! Up Air strings are real, so always go for them whenever its possible. His edge guarding game is also solid and he is overall pretty fast!

Kirby - Kirby is very fast and has little lag. You want to space out back airs like in the other Smash Games when playing defensive, and space out F-Airs, grabs (Kirby has a fantastic grab) and mix it up with shield to pressure your opponent. Kirby's Down Air is a very good spike off the stage, since you can't really get out of it! He also has great priority, so use that off the stage for some quick KO's! His up throw is a fantastic KO move, so always save it around ~90-100% for an easier time. Remember to time it to land on top of platforms for extra knock back!

Rosalina & Luma - She's very floaty and has good range and damage in her moves. Her moves struggle to obtain KOs at times but her Up Smash completes this task just fine. Overall, you want to space out Back Airs, mix it up with grabs, and use your Up Smash has an anti-aerial! She has a great recovery and solid combos if you move fast enough in the air.

Marth - He has changed quite a bit since the other games! His Up Throw is now a KO move and his F-Air has more landing lag. You want to space out jabs and F-Tilts in general - that is just how he spaces now. Mix in your pressure with his powerful shield breaker, and Up Air/Up tilt to counter airborne opponents. His Up Smash is very strong, but so is his tippered F-Smash! Careful of F-Smashing away, this time around it's slower overall.

Super Smash Wii U - Final Thoughts
I really like Smash Bros Wii U. Even though what I tried was just a demo, I really enjoyed it and I just cannot wait to play it more! ZeRo Suit Samus is so much fun, as well. If you get the chance to play the demo, definitely try her out!

And last but definitely not least, I'd like to give a big shoutout to my pro team CLASH Tournaments and you can click here to follow them on Facebook, Youtube and Twitter. A big thank you to our great sponsors and partners - Astro Gaming, Envy Gaming, SmashBoards, Brokentier, Apex Series, and Linode. Loving all of you guys!

PS: I'll be doing a Reddit AMA (Ask Me Anything) in r/SmashBros (LIVE!) today at 7PM PST. Come ask me anything you'd like about Smash 4, characters, match ups, mechanics and much more! Anything, really. I'll answer with as much detail (And honesty!) as possible. Please subscribe to me on Twitch, Facebook, and YouTube! And to hear more give me a follow on Twitter!

Thanks for reading,
ZeRo

ZeRo is the first Champion of Smash Wii U​

Image Credit: Polygon.com, ZeRo

 

[Tryst]

I hope another reason for this tournament was to see the balance of characters played by pros. I am really hoping that this game comes out and becomes a bridge that both Competitive and Casual Smashers can enjoy without disagreements. c:

 

[Aether9000]

Congrats on your win dude. You deserved it.
https://t.co/VS78GZQcbT

 

[THK]

Increased power on many throws give me Smash 64 feels, not a bad thing.

 

[Reila]

Fantastic read. Thanks for posting your impressions!

Edit: Also, you totally deserved to win there! Congratulations on winning the tournament.

 

[κomıc]

What were the boos about ZeRo?

I don't really follow the drama scene or whatever. Just found it interesting.

 

[Beninator]

Having played it myself, I'm unhappy with Marth. He has been slowed down a bit too much IMO. Fox was alright, but he had more ending lag on his moves than I expected.

 

[SDCBJR3]

What were the boos about ZeRo?

I don't really follow the drama scene or whatever. Just found it interesting.

He forced a Sudden Death. If the match wasn't timed Hbox probably would've won.

 

[κomıc]

He forced a Sudden Death. If the match wasn't timed Hbox probably would've won.

Even before that I heard boos everytime his name was called out...

 

[KayB]

For those who haven't seen this.

That's right. ZERO COSPLAY
THE END IS NIGH

 

[Negalith]

Good job dude. Wish I could have seen some Megaman action, but hopefully I will at Best Buy soon enough. Liking how the game looks, though obviously Moonwalking, L-cancelling, and wavedashing aren't there though, correct?

 

[Sahfarry]

Awesome, man! This kind of made me feel better about the stages.

 

[PyroTakun]

In b4 ZSS too stronk

 

[victinivcreate1]

Honestly this game feels kinda gross to me. I know im gonna get a lot of hate for this, but what ZeRo is describing for the characters is play oriented around defense and safeness. I wanted a new experience that allowed aggression, and this game doesn't give it to me. Too campy. Just like Brawl. The moves are too laggy to follow up/hit the opponent too far to combo. The throws don't help with comboing at all. Anyone who saw Grand finals of the Invitational saw ZeRo camp out Hungrybox last stock and took him to sudden death. This game reminds me too much of Brawl.

*I have played the demo myself at the Nintendo World Store.

 

[KayB]

EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116157281&postcount=16336

 

[pickle962]

Honestly this game feels kinda gross to me. I know im gonna get a lot of hate for this, but what ZeRo is describing for the characters is play oriented around defense and safeness. I wanted a new experience that allowed aggression, and this game doesn't give it to me. Too campy. Just like Brawl. The moves are too laggy to follow up/hit the opponent too far to combo. The throws don't help with comboing at all. Anyone who saw Grand finals of the Invitational saw ZeRo camp out Hungrybox last stock and took him to sudden death. This game reminds me too much of Brawl.

*I have played the demo myself at the Nintendo World Store.

OH BOO HOO DUDE! Take your negativity elsewhere!

 

[victinivcreate1]

OH BOO HOO DUDE! Take your negativity elsewhere!

I wanted a new experience. Not Brawl 2.0. Is that asking much? Besides. I'm not asking for wavedashing. I think its stupid tbh. I just want good movement options. Exciting movement allows for exciting matchplay. Like dash momentum carrying into your jump. Thats in ALL PLATFORMERS. Not in Brawl or Smash 4.

If you disagree with me, then we can debate. But don't try to get cute and post something with the intent to make it look like I'm the fool here, considering I posted a good paragraph up there explaining my reasoning for why I don't like the game, and you just come out of nowhere with a one liner.

 

[pickle962]

I wanted a new experience. Not Brawl 2.0. Is that asking much? Besides. I'm not asking for wavedashing. I think its stupid tbh. I just want good movement options. Exciting movement allows for exciting matchplay. Like dash momentum carrying into your jump. Thats in ALL PLATFORMERS. Not in Brawl or Smash 4.

If you disagree with me, then we can debate. But don't try to get cute and post something with the intent to make it look like I'm the fool here, considering I posted a good paragraph up there explaining my reasoning for why I don't like the game, and you just come out of nowhere with a one liner.

well both versions aint coming out for another 4-6 months respectively so movement options could still be in the final product? And don't talk down to me dude! You're allowed to whine like a child all you want on the internet, but if theres ONE thing the internet doesn't like, its people being negative so why bother posting your crap opinion if you know people are going to bash on you for it?

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116157281&postcount=16336

Sorry but that doesn't look like a good post to me.

The post he quoted is basically saying "If you like Melee, at least you have Melee to play. Others may want something new, and that's Smash 4".

The reply you linked here is missing something huge. He keeps insisting that Melee is more "competitive". This is a very vague and incorrect use of the word. He goes on to say how Melee is more aggressive and mobile and that's why it's more "competitive". Um, I'm sorry, but a game allowing more mobility and aggression does not make it more competitive; it means the gameplay is more aggressive and mobile. It's a preference.

I'll give an example explaining a competitive game versus something that's less competitive and a counter example of a game that's less aggressive and less mobile.

First, the latter. Take a look at the 2D fighting game genre. Let's compare the anime fighters like Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Melty Blood, to Street Fighter. Street Fighter is arguably the most popular or biggest fighting game title (smash not included). However, it puts a LOT of focus on spacing and defense. Sound familiar? (Brawl!) What do the anime fighting games lean towards? Aggression and mobility. Saying that Melee is more competitive because it's more aggressive and mobile is like saying Street Fighter (and Brawl) are less competitive.

Now I'll give an example of a game and how it would be less "competitive". Note that a game being less competitive does not mean it's not as good, fun, or intense. Imagine you're playing one of the newer Mario games, where you work together to beat levels. One feature of the recent games is that you can interfere with your teammates or even harm your allies' efforts of completing the game. At the end of levels (like 3D World) you see who got the highest score, etc. It would be less competitive if there were less chances to interact with your friends. For example, the removal of a score screen, or the removal of some ways to interfere with your allies.

Really, saying a game is less competitive doesn't mean much; it's vague and is not directly correlated to how good or fun a game is. People who like Street Fighter prefer slower games that focus on spacing. People who like Brawl like it for some of the same reasons.


If I'm missing your point, the poster you linked'd point, or the one he's replying to's point, then feel free to correct me, but there is a distinction between a game being more aggressive and mobile, a game having less depth (brawl arguably has less due to less movement tools, but it still has a lot! same with SF), and a game being less fun.

 

[Xinc]

well both versions aint coming out for another 4-6 months respectively so movement options could still be in the final product? And don't talk down to me dude! You're allowed to whine like a child all you want on the internet, but if theres ONE thing the internet doesn't like, its people being negative so why bother posting your crap opinion if you know people are going to bash on you for it?

Can you not. People are allowed to say what they want. Don't bring people's opinions down with your flippant comments. Thank you.

With that out of the way, I also don't mind an aggressive game, but this game seems more punish oriented. (Meaning I'll be maining ganondorf :: ) But hopefully landing lag issue gets fixed and Marth gets a bit more sped up. In case we have any Meta Knight catastrophes this time around too.

 

[Tryst]

So the AMA is starting now right? How do these work?

 

[The Derrit]

well both versions aint coming out for another 4-6 months respectively so movement options could still be in the final product? And don't talk down to me dude! You're allowed to whine like a child all you want on the internet, but if theres ONE thing the internet doesn't like, its people being negative so why bother posting your crap opinion if you know people are going to bash on you for it?

You're in the wrong here. He stated his opinion respectfully and you're flaming him for it. The irony is overwhelming, and you should probably stop doing what you're doing.

 

[KayB]

Stuff [don't worry, I read it]

I understand what you're saying, and I can honestly go on and say that mobility and speed can still work wonders for competitive play as much as you claim it doesn't, but that's not the point I'm getting at, and to a certain degree, what the poster in NeoGAF is getting at.

The point is the essence of Smash and what makes it so much like "Jazz" as opposed to other fighting games is because of the amount of options and creativity it gives you. You feel open and unrestrained since you have the ability to move across the entire screen as opposed to being stuck on one axis. You can attack from any angle and jump at whatever height depending on how hard you hold a button. It doesn't matter if I'm playing with no items on FD using Fox or with items on Pokefloats using Kirby.

Smash makes you feel free.

So the moment where my movement options slowly gets stripped away from me, the more and more I feel Smash Bros is getting farther from the reason I came into this scene.

And it isn't even just things like wavedashing. It'd be nice if it was in, but I could give less of a **** if there were other options that gave me the same feeling of movement. Things like crouching out of a dash to cancel your momentum or keeping your momentum through a jump to give you the feeling that you did a running start are not complicated techniques, and they do not separate the barrier between competitive and non-competitive. There was no reason to take these things out. It's no longer what really separates the two scenes anymore. It's become how the game is actually played.

I still have hope because we haven't seen the full game yet. Even if things like crouching out of dash don't make it in, maybe other movement options will be discovered. But the slow realization where every time we discover something new that expands our horizons with this game gets crossed out under the sweeping comment of "Your not allowed to play the game this way" or simply for no reason at all kills me little by little.

tl;dr Taking away elements of movement doesn't kill just the competitive scene, it kills the game itself.

 

[Hidden Pixl]

Game is still being developed..... Nuff said, end of discussion.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I understand what you're saying, and I can honestly go on and say that mobility and speed can still work wonders for competitive play as much as you claim it doesn't, but that's not the point I'm getting at, and to a certain degree, what the poster in NeoGAF is getting at.

The point is the essence of Smash and what makes it so much like "Jazz" as opposed to other fighting games is because of the amount of options and creativity it gives you. You feel open and unrestrained since you have the ability to move across the entire screen as opposed to being stuck on one axis. You can attack from any angle and jump at whatever height depending on how hard you hold a button. It doesn't matter if I'm playing with no items on FD using Fox or with items on Pokefloats using Kirby.

Smash makes you feel free.

So the moment where my movement options slowly gets stripped away from me, the more and more I feel Smash Bros is getting farther from the reason I came into this scene.

And it isn't even just things like wavedashing. It'd be nice if it was in, but I could give less of a **** if there were other options that gave me the same feeling of movement. Things like crouching out of a dash to cancel your momentum or keeping your momentum through a jump to give you the feeling that you did a running start are not complicated techniques, and they do not separate the barrier between competitive and non-competitive. There was no reason to take these things out. It's no longer what really separates the two scenes anymore. It's become how the game is actually played.

I still have hope because we haven't seen the full game yet. Even if things like crouching out of dash don't make it in, maybe other movement options will be discovered. But the slow realization where every time we discover something new that expands our horizons with this game gets crossed out under the sweeping comment of "Your not allowed to play the game this way" or simply for no reason at all kills me little by little.

tl;dr Taking away elements of movement doesn't kill just the competitive scene, it kills the game itself.

Ah, first thanks for putting up with my wall of text, it was a bit of a rant, because I have a friend who loves SF and insists that I'm "trying hard to hate it" and likes the more aggressive games too, while I only like the aggressive ones (such as the ones I listed in my last post). Just annoyed how he can't appreciate Brawl (strongly refuses to play it) when he expects me to like SF.

Thanks for clarifying, I understand your point, about the freeness being a defining factor of smash, and more of what makes smash smash is good and wanted in SSB4.

 

[pickle962]

You're in the wrong here. He stated his opinion respectfully and you're flaming him for it. The irony is overwhelming, and you should probably stop doing what you're doing.

Whatever! The dude is entitled to his dumbass opinion of how smash 4 is shaping up to be from a technical standpoint, but it just rubs me the wrong way when someone feels the need to ***** about how brawl or smash 4 isn't melee 2.0! Say what you will about brawl, but is it any wonder sakurai made the game the way he did what with some of you guys acting like melee (or recently project m) is the only smash game worth playing competitively?

We shouldn't be worrying about how smash 4 supposedly seems more like brawl 2.0 than melee 2.0! Face it, there will NEVER BE a true successor to Melee, (and project m is basically melee 2.0 full incarnate btw) Brawl surprisingly managed to thrive for a while on the competitive scene despite stupid crap like tripping and I imagine its only a matter of time before we start seeing tiers and metagames for smash 4 regardless of how it turns out! At least be thankful that smash 4 doesn't have stupid **** like tripping! sheesh!

 

[Prince Longstrok]

What were the boos about ZeRo?

I don't really follow the drama scene or whatever. Just found it interesting.

Mainly because he lamed it out. Forcing a sudden death.
Not to mention he played overly defensive, and that probably hit home for a lot of people because the overly defensive play style is what makes Brawl unappealing as well.

People are entitled to feel however they want, and I will not go deep in to my own opinion, but just wanted to let you know the basics of why he was boo'ed.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Whatever! The dude is entitled to his ******* opinion of how smash 4 is shaping up to be from a technical standpoint, but it just rubs me the wrong way when someone feels the need to ***** about how brawl or smash 4 isn't melee 2.0! Say what you will about brawl, but is it any wonder sakurai made the game the way he did what with some of you guys acting like melee (or recently project m) is the only smash game worth playing competitively?

We shouldn't be worrying about how smash 4 supposedly seems more like brawl 2.0 than melee 2.0! Face it, there will NEVER BE a true successor to Melee, (and project m is basically melee 2.0 full incarnate btw) Brawl surprisingly managed to thrive for a while on the competitive scene despite stupid crap like tripping and I imagine its only a matter of time before we start seeing tiers and metagames for smash 4 regardless of how it turns out! At least be thankful that smash 4 doesn't have stupid **** like tripping! sheesh!

Oh dear.

I don't want a Melee 2.0. I don't want a 2.0 of any game. I just want a game where I can move freely!

In Melee, using this character's waveshines, shffls, jcgrabs, dash dances, etc, I felt in complete control of Fox. With Falcon and Marth, just using dds, jcgrabs, dash momentum jumps and shffls, I felt in complete control of my characters.

In project M, between SHFFLs, Hover Cancels, Teleports, Moonwalks, Dash dances, and jcgrabs I felt free with Mewtwo. I felt like I could do whatever with his options.

In Brawl, platform cancelling, Recoil Specials, Pivot grabs, buffered attacks and general quick movement mafe my Marth and MK. We saw hiw platform cancelling could significantly boost the speed of characters *cough Mr.R's Marth*. Salem's ZSS is probably the most exciting player to watch in competitive Brawl because his usage of footstools, Recoil Specials, and general slippery, fast playstyle. ADHD and more specifically Zinoto are known for their mastery of the banana game, and Zinoto created the single banana infinite, which uses Diddy Kong's incredible mobility and a banana to completely shut down the opponent with one set up.

Smash 4 lacks such fluid mobility.

 

[pickle962]

Oh dear.

I don't want a Melee 2.0. I don't want a 2.0 of any game. I just want a game where I can move freely!

In Melee, using this character's waveshines, shffls, jcgrabs, dash dances, etc, I felt in complete control of Fox. With Falcon and Marth, just using dds, jcgrabs, dash momentum jumps and shffls, I felt in complete control of my characters.

In project M, between SHFFLs, Hover Cancels, Teleports, Moonwalks, Dash dances, and jcgrabs I felt free with Mewtwo. I felt like I could do whatever with his options.

In Brawl, platform cancelling, Recoil Specials, Pivot grabs, buffered attacks and general quick movement mafe my Marth and MK. We saw hiw platform cancelling could significantly boost the speed of characters *cough Mr.R's Marth*. Salem's ZSS is probably the most exciting player to watch in competitive Brawl because his usage of footstools, Recoil Specials, and general slippery, fast playstyle. ADHD and more specifically Zinoto are known for their mastery of the banana game, and Zinoto created the single banana infinite, which uses Diddy Kong's incredible mobility and a banana to completely shut down the opponent with one set up.

Smash 4 lacks such fluid mobility.

you realize what you played was a DEMO right?

 

[victinivcreate1]

you realize what you played was a DEMO right?

The game Is practically 3 months away. I seriously doubt much will be changed. Remember Brawl was delayed several times so the engine was able to change. This game has a set date.

 

[Xinc]

The game Is practically 3 months away. I seriously doubt much will be changed. Remember Brawl was delayed several times so the engine was able to change. This game has a set date.

I thought they set a date and kept pushing it back.

 

[Kink-Link5]

OH BOO HOO DUDE! Take your negativity elsewhere!

Chill. All the other friend said was he wanted a new experience. The demo felt just as sluggish and overdedicated as Brawl without offering anything new from the physics engine.

Most of the "newness" and tweaking seems to be focused on the character customization options that are going to be non-legal anyway, from how they sound (If two players want to play Mario, for example, they are stuck with the same custimzations instead of each getting different. Standard character movesets are going to be the requirement in this case). When the game looks the same, feels the same, and rewards the same kind of thing as the previous title in the series, of course it's going to get backlash. We wanted Smash 4.0, not Brawl 1.5.

 

[LOGIA666]

For those who haven't seen this.

That's right. ZERO COSPLAY
THE END IS NIGH

Goddamn it, no. Just no.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Chill. All the other friend said was he wanted a new experience. The demo felt just as sluggish and overdedicated as Brawl without offering anything new from the physics engine.

Most of the "newness" and tweaking seems to be focused on the character customization options that are going to be non-legal anyway, from how they sound (If two players want to play Mario, for example, they are stuck with the same custimzations instead of each getting different. Standard character movesets are going to be the requirement in this case). When the game looks the same, feels the same, and rewards the same kind of thing as the previous title in the series, of course it's going to get backlash. We wanted Smash 4.0, not Brawl 1.5.

Thank you. I just want to enjoy being able to move freely and quickly. tbh exciting matchplay is based off strong foundation of mobility.

 

[Silent Wolf]

I'd like to hear a melee player from the invitational's honest opinion about the game. I'm tired of seeing all these candy coated bull**** reviews like the game wasn't terrible.

 

[Phan7om]

Since Zero, like myself, has put in a great deal of knowledge on how Brawl's physics work... to us this game will probably feel totally different. To others, it probably feels a lot like Brawl because you dont know how Brawl feels exactly. Similar to how PM feels different from Melee, similar but different.

 

[OptimistNic]

I hope the grand finals will give Sora Ltd. and Namco Bandai feedback for how to improve the offensive pace of the game and discourage camping the timer out in some way.

 

[pickle962]

Thank you. I just want to enjoy being able to move freely and quickly. tbh exciting matchplay is based off strong foundation of mobility.

then don't bash on the slower pace of brawl and smash 4

 

[victinivcreate1]

then don't bash on the slower pace of brawl and smash 4

Smash 4 gimps mobility even harder than Brawl, because it removes all of the glitches thatmakes Brawl's movement techs possible. Thus. Approaching is bad. Which makes the game resort to slow paced campiness. NOT FUN TO WATCH. When this game comes out. I swear I'm gonna be the most hated Mega Man here, because I will show all of you how campy this can be.

Brawl gimped aerial to ground transitioning with the removal of L-Cancelling.

Now which game gimped options harder? Melee to Brawl? Or Brawl to Smash 4?

 

[KayB]

Whatever! The dude is entitled to his ******* opinion of how smash 4 is shaping up to be from a technical standpoint, but it just rubs me the wrong way when someone feels the need to ***** about how brawl or smash 4 isn't melee 2.0!

lol he never explicitly said it in his post, he just stated that Melee is fast-paced and would rather have Smash 4 contain similar elements. That's not wrong, nor is it wanting a Melee 2.0. He wasn't even bashing either game, he just said that he didn't like them. inb4 not liking a game is bashing it.

Say what you will about brawl, but is it any wonder sakurai made the game the way he did what with some of you guys acting like melee (or recently project m) is the only smash game worth playing competitively?

That doesn't make what he did any better. I don't understand why you're trying to justify that purposefully gimping half of the community for the sake of forcing people to play in a certain way is somehow a good thing. It's not a good thing no matter how you slice it. And Sakurai didn't make Brawl the way it was because Melee players harassed him. It was only after Brawl came out when there was an uproar. Oh yeah, and your stereotyping the Melee community by assuming all of us want Melee 2.0. Please shut up.

We shouldn't be worrying about how smash 4 supposedly seems more like brawl 2.0 than melee 2.0!

Once again, assuming that every Melee player wants Melee 2.0, and complaining about others thinking that Smash 4 is Brawl 2.0. And Brawl 2.0 is worrisome because it's their opinion of what they think the better styled game play is. People can worry about what they want.

At least be thankful that smash 4 doesn't have stupid **** like tripping! sheesh!

I'm still not going ignore that Sakurai still took out some stuff from Smash that really had no reason to be taken out of Smash in the first place. Ex, carrying a momentum through a running jump. Taking that out was dumb. I'm not going to justify and pretend I like these choices just by telling myself tripping isn't in the game anymore.

then don't bash on the slower pace of brawl and smash 4

He never did that. Stop being delusional.

I don't necessarily like the direction where Smash 4 is going, but I still have my hopes. It's ironic that your accusing us of being Melee loyalists when you're bashing others for expressing their own opinions about the new game. It's a disgusting double-standard and you should feel ashamed.