Smash Theory 5: Edgeguarding

[LiteralGrill]

Rush Hour Smash, a Youtube channel ran by Keitaro and False, has released it's fifth video in the Smash Theory series. The first video covered the neutral game, the second video covered zoning, the third covered Reads, and the fourth covered doubles play. Their newest Smash Theory video covers edgeguarding.

To stay up to date on Smash Theory videos be sure to check out Rush Hour Smash and stay tuned to the front page of Smashboards for more video coverage!

SmashCapps plans to really think about the video to improve his game. Follow him on Twitter to discuss and keep up with everything Smash.

 

[DJ Arson]

Truly the first, and edge guarding doesn't exist in Smash 4

 

[Pixel_]

Truly the first, and edge guarding doesn't exist in Smash 4

Maybe not for , but you're probably missing out if you don't edgeguard

EDIT: , honestly I don't know about every character, but most of them are gimpable in some way.
(except maybe lol) (too many faces lol)

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Once more I was right, there is no such thing as "Edge-guarding" in Smash-4. Thanks.

 

[Munomario777]

Edge hogging =/= edgeguarding.

 

[ItsKaden]

Truly the first, and edge guarding doesn't exist in Smash 4

Ummmmm..... Have you even played Smash 4? It can be hard to edgegaurd against, or as some characters, but it's more than possible.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Be honest: the music was keitaros idea wasn't it.

Edgeguarding in smash 4 is harder but those that learn it and can do it more successfully than others have the advantage so making comments like "it doesn't exist" is pointless.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Delete plz

 

[Swaggy-G]

Edgeguarding in Smash 4 is much more entertaining than in past games. Edgehogging is a **** mechanic.

 

[Raheem The Dream]

Good Lesson 5 for EdgeGuarding!

 

[90007000]

Maybe not for , but you're probably missing out if you don't edgeguard

"Huh?"

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Edge-guarding >>>> Edge-hogging all the way. Harder, but much more satisfying.

 

[Delzethin]

Are there really this many people who think edgehogging was the only way to edgeguard in previous games, or that edgeguarding is a failure if it doesn't take a stock away? You guys realize how many options you have when you're inherently in an advantage state like that, right? You realize even with how much harder it is to gimp someone in Smash 4, you can rack up damage on them as they try to get back just as easily as ever?

 

[Link24a]

Edgeguarding in Smash 4 is much more entertaining than in past games. Edgehogging is a **** mechanic.

Smash 4 edge guarding is very unrewarding and often very difficult to pull off.

It's really dumb to be honest, no I'm not talking about ledge mechanics

What the hell are people talking about by saying edge hogging is the only form of edge guarding in melee/brawl? Seriously. In Melee it's effective, good amount of risk vs reward, and everything else

 

[Dooms]

Smash 4 edge guarding is very unrewarding and often very difficult to pull off.

It's really dumb to be honest, no I'm not talking about ledge mechanics

What the hell are people talking about by saying edge hogging is the only form of edge guarding in melee/brawl? Seriously. In Melee it's effective, good amount of risk vs reward, and everything else

Depends on the character (both who is on and off stage), and it's generally worth it to go for an edge guard assuming you're in the right position and are doing it intelligently. >_>

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If you don't try to edgeguard in smash 4 you are wasting potential advantages you can get.

Good video.

 

[Link24a]

Depends on the character (both who is on and off stage), and it's generally worth it to go for an edge guard assuming you're in the right position and are doing it intelligently. >_>

If you're right next to the ledge and the opponent is beneath it there's practically nothing you can do

 

[Munomario777]

If you're right next to the ledge and the opponent is beneath it there's practically nothing you can do

"One situation is difficult to edgeguard against. Therefore, all edgeguarding is difficult and unrewarding."

Um, okay.

 

[Link24a]

"One situation is difficult to edgeguard against. Therefore, all edgeguarding is difficult and unrewarding."

Um, okay.

That's a very very common recovery situation. You can't use a move onstage because sweetspot is practically guaranteed
You can't jump off and Bair because that's not fast enough
You can't run and grab ledge to force them to land

 

[Munomario777]

That's a very very common recovery situation. You can't use a move onstage because sweetspot is practically guaranteed
You can't jump off and Bair because that's not fast enough
You can't run and grab ledge to force them to land

"One situation is difficult to edgeguard against. Therefore, all edgeguarding is difficult and unrewarding."

That's all I'm hearing here.

 

[HFlash]

Maybe not for , but you're probably missing out if you don't edgeguard

Eyyy, what are we? Chop liver?
Edit: I mean, Marth was in the freaking video about edgeguarding.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If you're right next to the ledge and the opponent is beneath it there's practically nothing you can do

 

[Link24a]

"One situation is difficult to edgeguard against. Therefore, all edgeguarding is difficult and unrewarding."

That's all I'm hearing here.

You're acting like this only happens like 10% of the time, it's like 50%.

 

[GenNyan]

Edge-guarding >>>> Edge-hogging all the way. Harder, but much more satisfying.

In past games, edge hogging was merely a part of edge guarding, I'm not sure you even understand what it is if you say one is better than the other.

 

[Dooms]

That's a very very common recovery situation. You can't use a move onstage because sweetspot is practically guaranteed
You can't jump off and Bair because that's not fast enough
You can't run and grab ledge to force them to land

Who are you playing as? >_>

I know for a fact that out of the characters I play as (Lucina. Robin, and Greninja) that I can deal with that scenario very easily. Greninja can hydro pump through the stage to push them away or just bair, Lucina can bair/dair, and Robin has elwind and bair.

If you're trying to react to them recovering, then yes, you won't have enough time, but if you're attempting to punish a more common scenario, you shouldn't have a problem assuming your character has a semi-fast aerial or different move to punish these things with. This is only against most characters though. You're not going to edge guard Palutena very easily out of her up-b. Same with Greninja and Sheik.

 

[Link24a]

Who are you playing as? >_>

I know for a fact that out of the characters I play as (Lucina. Robin, and Greninja) that I can deal with that scenario very easily. Greninja can hydro pump through the stage to push them away or just bair, Lucina can bair/dair, and Robin has elwind and bair.

If you're trying to react to them recovering, then yes, you won't have enough time, but if you're attempting to punish a more common scenario, you shouldn't have a problem assuming your character has a semi-fast aerial or different move to punish these things with. This is only against most characters though. You're not going to edge guard Palutena very easily out of her up-b. Same with Greninja and Sheik.

Marth and Ness

 

[Dooms]

Marth and Ness

You have PK Thunder with Ness. PK Thunder is amazing for edge guarding. So is nair.

Marth has nair and bair. Dair if you can time it well.

Marth and Lucina are literally edgeguarding 101. They go up a whole tier if the person playing them knows how to edgeguard effectively.

 

[Phoenix502]

You know, after seeing this in response to a complaint against Smash 4, someone aught to do a montage of these complaints getting addressed in actual play.

"Edgeguarding doesn't exist in Smash 4"
"Rolls are OP in Smash 4"
"Spammers are cheap in 4 Glory"
etc.

just have a choice few moments of such being proven wrong... call the montage "No Johns: The Movie" or something

In past games, edge hogging was merely a part of edge guarding, I'm not sure you even understand what it is if you say one is better than the other.

I won't argue that hogging was a part of edgeguarding in past games, and is about as valid a strategy as anything else used to win, but I will not hide the fact that I don't like it, predominantly because it means that any competent player with a decent sense of timing can do it. it sort of kills a lot of incentive to use very many other fighters that don't have a strong and flexible recovery, and that kind of encourages staying safely on the stage, as opposed to chasing the target and making certain they're not coming back.

something that, IMO, is detrimental to Smash 4, which seems to really encourage offstage play...

 

[DaRkJaWs]

And of course pikachu is an excellent edgeguarder of those coming down from below, and actually donkey kong is too (b reversing or wavebouncing his aerial down b not only reverses but also causes dk to go downwards). Dk can also b reverse his forward b (headbutt) onto the ledge and this spikes against numerous characters' up b, for example its most effective against captain falcon and ness.

 

[Link24a]

You have PK Thunder with Ness. PK Thunder is amazing for edge guarding. So is nair.

Marth has nair and bair. Dair if you can time it well.

Marth and Lucina are literally edgeguarding 101. They go up a whole tier if the person playing them knows how to edgeguard effectively.

Yeah I try all the time to do so but his aerials just don't cut it and spiking is nearly impossible in this game with most characters

 

[Munomario777]

Yeah I try all the time to do so but his aerials just don't cut it and spiking is nearly impossible in this game with most characters

Then I'd say you just need more practice.

 

[Link24a]

Then I'd say you just need more practice.

Practice doesn't fix marth's pathetic aerials.

The fact that Marth was nerfed to the ground in this game discourages me from playing it at all. I enjoy brawl 10x more than smash 4 because Marth is actually good

 

[Munomario777]

Practice doesn't fix marth's pathetic aerials.

It does fix how good you are(n't) at using them.

The fact that Marth was nerfed to the ground in this game discourages me from playing it at all. I enjoy brawl 10x more than smash 4 because Marth is actually good

Then just play a different character. Simple as that.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

In past games, edge hogging was merely a part of edge guarding, I'm not sure you even understand what it is if you say one is better than the other.

K.
This iteration of Edge-Guarding >>>>>> Past titles' Edge-Guarding
I actually know what it is, I'm not that nooby. I just thought it would be obvious to tell one from another on that way. I'm way too ignorant, right?!
...
I like this iteration more because it allows to a more exciting Off-Stage game, since you actually have to work hard to KO if you want to do it Off-Stage. Also, Meteor Cancelling was retired, allowing for a better vertical gimp game, along with the high precision to tech a Stage Spike...The horizontal game is also pretty helpful since most of the recoveries were buffed... You could argue that the Edge-guarded character can be helped with that, but not if you take enough effort to get him!

 

[Zeth444]

Practice doesn't fix marth's pathetic aerials.

The fact that Marth was nerfed to the ground in this game discourages me from playing it at all. I enjoy brawl 10x more than smash 4 because Marth is actually good

Só u dislike this game becouse youre main was nerfed.
WOW, Maybe I shouldnt play pokemon anymore becouse Dragon type, my favorite, was nerfed, and my favorite poke Hydreigon went from OU (tier A+ for those who never played poke "siriusly") into UU (B-) with his 4x weakness to Fairy.
Or Maybe I should quit MKX becouse Kitana Isnt top tier anymore.
(Actually Slowbro is my fav pok and he got a huge buff with The mega form, but I think u see my point.).

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Edgeguarding > Edgehogging

 

[Link24a]

Só u dislike this game becouse youre main was nerfed.
WOW, Maybe I shouldnt play pokemon anymore becouse Dragon type, my favorite, was nerfed, and my favorite poke Hydreigon went from OU (tier A+ for those who never played poke "siriusly") into UU (B-) with his 4x weakness to Fairy.
Or Maybe I should quit MKX becouse Kitana Isnt top tier anymore.
(Actually Slowbro is my fav pok and he got a huge buff with The mega form, but I think u see my point.).

When your favorite character just feels terrible how are you supposed to have fun? Seriously.

@ Munomario777 I AM using them. They're just so weak that they knock them not nearly enough and so laggy that I can't hit them with another

 

[Champ Gold]

This was a great video. I miss these, keep it up

 

[Munomario777]

When your favorite character just feels terrible how are you supposed to have fun? Seriously.

Find a new favorite character?

@ Munomario777 I AM using them. They're just so weak that they knock them not nearly enough and so laggy that I can't hit them with another

Are they at a decent percentage?

 

[~Burst~]

Edgeguarding > Edgehogging

Hogging the ledge is a part of ledge guarding.