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Smash Bros. Melee was "too difficult" - New Sakurai Interview

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by crismas, Dec 8, 2010.

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  1. crismas

    crismas Smash Master

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    There will never be another like Melee, so sad... this whole interview was severely disappointing. Leaves little hope that the next installment of smash will be something to look forward to (at least competitively). I think how he's going about this, is how games are going down the road right now in general, easy. Older games are generally challenging even the ones we play now in our adulthood from childhood. I'm guessing that Sakurai just wants smash to be another Mario Party-esque game.

    Here's the source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-12-08-smash-bros-melee-was-too-difficult?

    More on Sakurai's thoughts (also posted today as well):

    Posted by Rhan:

    Source: http://www.1up.com/news/masahiro-sak...ts-super-smash



    Thoughts?
  2. Daniel_the_Seraph

    Daniel_the_Seraph Smash Ace

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    This game is sooooooooo haaaaaard


    lol

    Though hearing he doesn't plan to make another melee couldn't be less surprising.
  3. CloneHat

    CloneHat Smash Champion

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    SAKURAAAAAAAAIIII!

    Where's the competitive love?
  4. Geist

    Geist Smash Master

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    I find that hard to swallow, considering that at the time I first picked up melee I was completely casual about it. I was 10 when I first played it and to me it was the perfect casual experience at the time. I couldn't even imagine that there was a deeper side to it until a friend introduced me.
    So it's weird to me how he sees it as an obligation to keep Smash exclusive to a certain crowd, when one of the biggest things about melee to me was its ability to be appealing to literally any crowd.

    Besides all this, I thought Sakurai had said on multiple occasions that he won't be involved in another Smash game.
  5. Wenbobular

    Wenbobular Smash Hero

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    There's a similar thread in the Brawl forums that's degenerated into Brawl vs Melee :laugh:
  6. Pi

    Pi Smash Hero

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    wat .
  7. rhan

    rhan Smash Hero

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    So... I read something completely different today.

    http://www.1up.com/news/masahiro-sakurai-reflects-super-smash

    Totally topic related. This article came out today also.
  8. Lovage

    Lovage Smash Hero

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    yeah melee is really good

    reading sakurai's thoughts about the insane development cycle probably has something to do with it, they just did a really good job creating each individual aspect of the game, that's probably why we're still playing it 9 years later.

    and i don't think it's news to anybody here that there'll never be another game like melee, but i'm pretty much fine with that



    and god brawl sucks LOL
  9. chain-ace

    chain-ace chain-ace

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    Doesn't he realize that Melee can be played on the same low level as brawl for new comers? Melee is basically the same as brawl to the new comers. Although you'd have to be stupid to not realize the superior engine even if you don't play advanced at all.

    The difference is that Melee can go beyond that, if you push hard enough. wtf is wrong with that man. I mean, I do sympathize. He worked on it 24/7 for a year and a month, no time off. I thank him for that, but he could have easily just ported the engine and made adjustments. EASILY, could have done that.
  10. crismas

    crismas Smash Master

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    @Rhan, thanks for posting that too. I'll add it to the top!

    @Lovage, not surprised either but leaves little hope that anything smash related in the future will be just as good or similar to the level Melee was. Melee will always be amazing though, either way so I agree.
  11. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY Banned (6 Points)

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    he wants more people to play so he's dumbing it down. this sounds a lot like how high schools try to pass most of their students. instend of better teaching lets make it easier to reach the bare min. If i've worked for what I have I should be able to enjoy that. also why does he care about high level? most people buy the game not for highlevel but for fun.

    also everyone thinks they're great at smash when they play and WILL say it isn't so hard you have to dumbby down the game it's very simple to understadn at low levels this isn't like SF.
  12. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY Banned (6 Points)

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  13. Vro

    Vro Smash Lord

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    After all, it's just a game.

    <3 melee
  14. 0Room

    0Room Smash Lord

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    I mean, I understand where he's coming from.
    I don't agree with it, but I understand it.
  15. CableCho57

    CableCho57 Smash Lord

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    melee can be for casual noobs with all the items and fun, or serious and intense on another exciting level

    brawl can be for casual noobs with all the items and fun, or serious and gay with glitches, spammed attackes, and stalling
  16. chain-ace

    chain-ace chain-ace

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    don't forget the tripping. LOL.

    Nintendo keeps their franchises to themselves. But let's say they gave smash bros to someone else, the way crash bandicoot and spyro were given to that sierra company. I would give smash to capcom.
  17. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY Banned (6 Points)

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    why would capcom want smash? also the flaw is the fact they wouldn't give them any of the charcters so they would only use the mechincals and most likly a handfull of nindetdo charcters on the wii verison like holy crap on wii verison you get mario as a serect charcter.

    also keep in mind capcom may not like some things about smash and be like WTF? where are all the quarter circles? and making it so falcon can no longer walk the moon. Also I'm pretty sure if they wanted to make a game like it without nindetdo charcters they easily could.
  18. CloneHat

    CloneHat Smash Champion

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    You can play Melee at a low or high level, but restricting it to a low level is just limiting a deep, fleshed-out game.

    Or are there not enough Smash players to find someone around your level?
  19. ArstNeio

    ArstNeio Smash Apprentice

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    I love Melee as much as the next guy, but I do want to say that a game being slower paced and less technically focused does not preclude it from being competitive.

    Also we'll always have community mods. I must say they are all quite excellent :)
  20. a nub

    a nub Smash Ace

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    I'd saw we all knew that smash 4 is going down the same road as brawl as much as we hope we'll get a true melee sequel

    but it's been 9 years and melee rapes more than ever so it's w/e lol
  21. Jonas

    Jonas Smash Champion

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    So basically Melee was too good, so he had to make Brawl a little worse.
  22. MikeHaggarTHAKJB

    MikeHaggarTHAKJB Smash Master

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    exactly

    any idiot can pick up & play melee and have more fun with it then they would with a regular fighter. melee is a rare example of a game that appeals fully to both hardcore and casual gamers. how is that bad?
  23. MuraRengan

    MuraRengan Smash Lord

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    Melee too good.
  24. Jam Stunna

    Jam Stunna Andorian Sex Fantasy

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    I posted this in the Brawl forum thread on this topic:

    My sentiment as well. Sakurai seems to think that as a developer, he has to choose between satisfying either the hardcore or the casual crowd. What he ignores is that he can satisfy both, and in fact, he already has with the game that he maligns in the interview. Melee sold 7 million copies, and 99% of those people who purchased the game were not tournament players. Everyone was happy; we tournament players had some great times, and regular players did too.

    Like it or not, there is a general trend in the fighting game genre towards easier and more accessible. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Street Fighter IV is easier than Third Strike, but the trade-off is that SF4 essentially revitalized the entire genre, and now we have a major release every year. That seems like a pretty good deal to me, but the key is that Capcom also hasn't forgotten about the people that want something more challenging than SF4. Those people are getting an improved version of Third Strike.

    Sakurai has overlearned the lessons of the industry. Brawl being more accessible is not the problem. The problem is that the design choices made for Brawl gutted what made Melee such an enjoyable experience for everyone, tournament and non-tournament players alike. And I suppose that someone would argue that Brawl has sold three million more copies than Melee. That's true, but is that because it's "more accessible," or because the Wii is selling like gangbusters in comparison to the Gamecube?*

    *
  25. Anth0ny

    Anth0ny Smash Master

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    so disappointing.

    and i think sakurai is truly retarded:

    1. Really? That's why all my non-competitive friends still refuse to play Brawl? The gameplay was not hard, and if you think so you're an idiot who can't play games worth a damn. Waveshining is one thing, but playing Smash the level most players play is not hard. At...all.

    2. Melee has sold over 7 million copies. Of those 7 million players, probably a whole 5 percent of those people played the game competitively. So... why are we dumbing it down again? I've never heard "Melee sucks compared to 64, I can't stand this ****ing game"... whereas I've heard it the majority of the time for Brawl in comparison to Melee.

    It's not just the hardcore players you dimwit, EVERYONE was disappointed with Brawl.
  26. Aria♪

    Aria♪ -Final-

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    I think that melee is the better game competitively, but I agree with Sakurai completely with this. With all the games that have been coming out recently, I think Brawl appealed more in general the way it was. And I agree that it is an easier game to get into.

    There is nothing bad about Brawl at all except a lower level of competitivity and slight character imbalance. Both games can be fun for both competitive and casual smashers. Besides, what the hell were you all expecting from brawl? A game more competitive than melee?
  27. omgwtfToph

    omgwtfToph Smash Master

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    there's a misconception among nintendo and several other video game publishers these days that they have to appeal exclusively to the casual crowd to do their business. that's the whole point of the wii

    sakurai unfortunately buys into this belief, even though i'm glad he said what he did about melee. although i suspect that the nigh-excessive level of technical detail in melee probably gave him a bad impression about designing games like that. (from a programmer's point of view, i can definitely attest to brawl probably being much more fun to make compared to a game like melee)

    like, melee is truly too good. and to make it too good, it sounds like sakurai went through hell. and it's less of "i'm lazy so i don't want to make another game too good" and more of "after all that work, i would prefer to just cater to the more casual fanbase." most game designers work far too long to be hardcore gamers themselves, so it's only natural that they would adopt more of a casual mindset

    fun fact on sakurai, btw: from what japanese players told me, he's a falcon main in melee and a metaknight main in brawl LOL. figures, right?


    anyway

    i believe that, like most things in history, gaming will prove to be cyclical, and that in 10 to 20 years, there will be a new resurgence of hardcore-type games and we'll start to see new fighters as technical as Melee and GGXX come out again

    and there are plenty of other game design studios right now that share the sentiment of hardcore gamers and are pushing gaming back in that direction. i just hope they're successful



    edit: another thing I'd like to point out. i suspect that, because sakurai sees smash from the point of view of a developer, when he says "melee is too difficult" he's acknowledging melee in its entirety. that is, "competitive melee is too difficult." when you build a program, or design a game, you consider all possible events that could happen in your game - and going through long design periods, i'm sure the smash developers noticed a lot of the stuff that made melee what it is today and tweaked those things. have you guys seen the video of the beta version of melee where falcon's dthrow doesn't bounce an opponent, and behaves more like a faster version of fox's dthrow where the opponent stays grounded WITHOUT bouncing? falcon could've jab reset techchased like sheik for days with that ****. it's gone now, as we know.

    so i have a suspicion that sakurai's primary opinion is "balancing all that bull**** was way too much trouble considering my original motivations for creating smash bros., because my goal has always been to please kids and the casual crowd."

    i guess i see where sakurai is coming from, although i really, really wish he didn't have that mindset.


    edit: btw, if you want a smile, check out the comments on this page haha. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-12-08-smash-bros-melee-was-too-difficult? they're like 90% casual gamers who are like "man melee was so much better than brawl, i loved watching the pros play, it was so beautiful" etc

    there's hope after all, lol
  28. chain-ace

    chain-ace chain-ace

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    you're missing the point. Capcom's games in general have tight controls. Meaning you can cancel your moves and are able to do anything and move after you land. If they devised their own smash engine, I am sure it'd automatically be better to brawls. Of course you wouldn't wavedash or moonwalk because they would have their own engine.

    Not that that would ever happen, but if Nintendo were to pass on smash to another company. Capcom would be the one.
  29. Pita

    Pita Smash Apprentice

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    It's already well known that Sakurai simply HATES competitive gaming. Brawl can't be as competitive as it could have been due to the random tripping (All in good fun, right, Brawl players?) and the only reason Sakurai is so against having any game similar to Melee is because he saw what the Melee Competitive Scene did with the game that he intended to be for casual play only.

    He got Nintendo fever, if you ask me. "Screw hardcore gamers, we need to have the KIDS! The kids who will grow up to be hardcore gamers will love our non-hardcore games for sure!"

    Seriously Nintendo, there's a reason everyone over the age of 13 has a PS3 or an XBox360, it's because your games are lackluster and above all, childish... Sakurai wants the same with the sequel to Melee-I mean Brawl.
  30. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY Banned (6 Points)

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    The main reason why I like smash over all other fighters i've ever checked in to is because in melee you have sooooo much control and you can STILL lock people down like crazy just think if you didn't have DI, powersheilding, as many tech options, sheild options like so, and etc. falco would never let you go and he even still doesn't let go with all these escape routes.

    but you get a lot of offense options you normally don't get also. melee has so much control it's amazing.
  31. omgwtfToph

    omgwtfToph Smash Master

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    incidentally, i sort of think that if melee stays strong throughout the lifespan of "smash 4" while the brawl community moves on, there will be a good case for a competitively-geared "smash 5" for two reasons:

    1. melee will have proved the longevity of a deep fighter
    2. as i said before, i think gaming is going to start moving in a more hardcore direction in the future
  32. Anth0ny

    Anth0ny Smash Master

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    I think the saddest thing is that Sakurai doesn't strive to top the "sharpest entry in the series". I mean, what kind of mindset is that?
  33. Gamegenie222

    Gamegenie222 Smash Master

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    Why does Sakurai hate us? What does he see wrong with us? I'm a competitive brawl player but I love melee more because of more options, speed, combos and no gay defensive campy play but I'm glad he made melee fast and hard on purpose but he never gave us a specific reason why he doesn't like competitive smash?:(
  34. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY Banned (6 Points)

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    it's because he wants noobs to have chance. which in truth even in brawl if they know what they're doing they'll win hopefully. being a noob to brawl or at least close to it's lowest level I was able to at least take a stock off a MK and sheik as puff. I played somewhat like melee in the way of using airspeed like A DD but no bairs that may miss like other puffs in melee.

    duck rest XD even in brawl. you have to understand game theory and junk to even have a chance in the games it doesn't matter if you can do all the tech skill if you don't get pin them down or that missing a move gets you punished hard you will lose. If I can SHFFL that doesn't mean i'm going to land crap if I keep mindlessly approaching.

    even if bralw had more problems noobs would still get kickedin the nuts by people who play serious.
  35. GunmasterLombardi

    GunmasterLombardi Smash Champion

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    Guys, that's business.

    If I was in his shoes it would be highly illogical to make a game for a fansite than a proportionally greater group praising their Wii Sports and stupid 3DSs which they haven't seen in person yet.
  36. Bing

    Bing Smash Master

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    If Melee = Too Difficult

    Then us Melee players = beasts?
  37. Metal Reeper

    Metal Reeper Smash Champion

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    We have Melee, we Don't need another. Thanks for the post Crismas.
  38. Macman

    Macman YEDI!

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    pretty much bing
  39. DippnDots

    DippnDots Feral Youth

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    You guys are dumb, sakurai is clearly mindgaming us, just like he mindgamed us with brawlol.
  40. omgwtfToph

    omgwtfToph Smash Master

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    i think working 40 hour shifts with no sunday vacations probably has something to do with it LOL

    plus smash is a kids series so think about it like this:

    let's say that Bandai hired you, as an aspiring film director, to direct the new Power Rangers movie coming out, and this was your big break. you pour your heart and soul into it and make it way too amazing for its own good - it wins several awards and somehow ends up being one of the best films of the year. you become an accomplished director, and years later when you are asked to create the sequel to the movie, you step back and go: "wait, power rangers is a kid's series for christsakes. do I REALLY have to go through all that again?" wouldn't it be more natural to tailor it more towards its original audience, now that you're a more matured filmmaker and your vision is more clearly defined?

    sure, the diehard fans of the first Power Rangers movie you directed are going to be upset at you for not dedicating yourself so wholly to making another incredible movie. but so what? those fans only constitute like, 3-5% of your audience. and besides, there are other awesome film franchises out there that cater to serious moviegoers. why can't they just go watch THOSE movies instead?


    i think that analogy isn't perfect, but holds on several levels.
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