Smash 4 Speculation Chart [WE UPDATE NOW]

[Deleted member]

That doesn't really help whatsoever.
Discussion for that goes in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/super-smash-bros-4-wii-u-3ds-topic.324221/

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well I;m look forward to seein g what the final lists look like and in turn how they stack up when the actual Smash 4 cast is revealed. For the sake of having a complete checklist you should add an image of Brawl's character select screen to the OP and cross off characters as they're confirmed.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I posted this in the Prediction Discussion thread, but no one paid any attention to it .

If what Reggie says is right, we will be getting a Smash 4 playable demo at Best Buy very soon. If that is the case, then the game must be pretty far along. So, do we think there will be a release date included? Who do we think will be playable?

 

[Deleted member]

Since Mario_and_Sonic_Guy is VERY critical of off-topic discussion, we shouldn't talk about that here.

@Guybrush: The veterans are with their series.

 

[splat]

I posted this in the Prediction Discussion thread, but no one paid any attention to it .

If what Reggie says is right, we will be getting a Smash 4 playable demo at Best Buy very soon. If that is the case, then the game must be pretty far along. So, do we think there will be a release date included? Who do we think will be playable?

You got a link to where he says this? I'm a bit hesitant to believe it..

EDIT: Could you post said link in the Prediction Discussion thread, for the reason Golden mentioned (perhaps even the Wii U/3DS discussion thread)? Thanks!

 

[AEMehr]

Well I;m look forward to seein g what the final lists look like and in turn how they stack up when the actual Smash 4 cast is revealed. For the sake of having a complete checklist you should add an image of Brawl's character select screen to the OP and cross off characters as they're confirmed.

Each character from brawl will be on their own respective franchise chat. There isn't a need to makeanother one for just the brawl characters.

ALSO LOOK GUYS MOAR THINGS1!1q!111!!11!1!!!

Kirby's Dreamland [UPDATED]​

Dyna Blade was replaced by Marx​

Pokemon​

F-Zero​

MOTHER / Earthbound​

Fire Emblem​

Kid Icarus​

WarioWare / Wario Land​

Pikmin​

The next set should be last, get hyped!!11!11!!1!11!1!​

 

[Deleted member]

Front page updated.

 

[fogbadge]

wasn't the president supposed to be on the pikmin one?

or have i some how got that into my head

 

[Dark Phazon]

This link?

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/05/nintendo-best-buy-partnership/

 

[N3ON]

Surprised Rayquaza, Dragonite, and Scizor made it in over a spot for a 6th Gen (other than Mewtwo). I don't think we'll get one, but for covering all bases (which is what we seem to be doing) I still would've had one. Oh well.

@fogbadge
I think he's excluded because it would've thrown off the chart alignment. He doesn't have much of a chance anyway, especially with the new captains and everything.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Are these the chars that have chances out of their series?
RayQ/Scizor/Dragonite?
Why?

Would be hella awsome but why?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh god the return of Micaiah's creepy as **** face...

One very minor nitpick I do have with the chart is Thanatos is there but Pandora isn't. Don't know, sounds kind of off.

 

[N3ON]

Are these the chars that have chances out of their series?
RayQ/Scizor/Dragonite?
Why?

Would be hella awsome but why?

Rayquaza was probably added because he was a boss, but as a playable character makes no sense, Scizor was super popular around Melee, and I think Sakurai said he was considered briefly but Sakurai didn't think he could work (or something to that extent) - correct me if I'm wrong on that, and Dragonite... I dunno. He's kinda well known, he's a little popular. Seems like a random addition at this point.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Rayquaza was probably added because he was a boss, but as a playable character makes no sense, Scizor was super popular around Melee, and I think Sakurai said he was considered briefly but Sakurai didn't think he could work (or something to that extent) - correct me if I'm wrong on that, and Dragonite... I dunno. He's kinda well known, he's a little popular. Seems like a random addition at this point.

Ow i see and yeah Dragonite is very popular he could work no doubt.

 

[Ben Holt]

"Nitpicks" on the chart are not acceptable.
Especially when it comes to nitpicking realism, as EVERYONE has a different take on what's realistic. (And quite frankly, Geno being seen as more likely than Toad or even Waluigi is far from realistic no matter how you try to justify it.)

This charts are just for all reasonable options and for fun.

EDIT: Aside from that, anyone who claims Geno was high on "the poll" is full of it.
Not in the sense that Geno wasn't high on a poll Sakurai made, as we don't actually know how he did, but rather because WE HAVE NO INFORMATION ABOUT ANY POLL. Other than Sonic being the most requested, that much we can confirm through his DOJO!! page. And that Saki Amamiya had a lot of requests; something also mentioned on the DOJO!! pages.

What people like to blindly list as a "poll" where Geno had 4 "votes" while the highest "voted" character was Dedede with 5 was not a poll at all. It was a list of characters mentioned in e-mails Sakurai had received up until a certain point and how many times they were mentioned.

Thank you.

 

[BKupa666]

No Klump under the DK section?! What fresh hell is this??

 

[Ben Holt]

Not trying to knock the chart. I think it's amazing. But I just find it funny how you originally said that you were going to take characters off to clean up the list, but instead you added characters that had any remote possibility.

If only this was the final roster. I'd **** myself.

 

[Deleted member]

When a reasonable 6th Gen shows its face, then one will be added. Until then, only Awakened Mewtwo.
Dragonite is not so random when you consider Iris's temperamental Dragonite, which is rather notable in this point in time, even with advertisements and merchandise. Dragonite is less random at this point than Gardevoir, Scizor, Plusle & Minun, and Darkrai, who are also on the chart.
There is no reason why Rayquaza can't work as a character.
Sakurai said nothing about Scizor being planned. Scizor is merely one of the more notable and feasible 2nd Gens.

No Klump under the DK section?! What fresh hell is this??

Krusha was an add-on because I had an open space.
My original idea was to have Klump and Krusha together to reflect the cartoon, but I decided on Krusha alone because he's the only Kremling to be playable in a main DK title (even if it's just Multiplayer mode).

Not trying to knock the chart. I think it's amazing. But I just find it funny how you originally said that you were going to take characters off to clean up the list, but instead you added characters that had any remote possibility.

If only this was the final roster. I'd **** myself.

Yeah, I kind of changed my mind on that in order to just add whoever's feasible and reasonable to cover most bases.

 

[Deleted member]

Double post.

 

[FalKoopa]

I would like to know the reasoning behind Ludwig.

 

[Ben Holt]

I would like to know the reasoning behind Ludwig.

To make a perfect rectangle.
And he's the most popular of the Koopalings.

 

[FalKoopa]

In that case, a Koopaling placeholder icon would have been better imo.

EDIT: Also, popular? Not sure about that. Though he is the most prominent.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ludwig is considered the "leader" of the Koopalings, and was originally depicted as Bowser's second-in-command before Bowser Jr. took over that role later on.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Ludwig is considered the "leader" of the Koopalings, and was originally depicted as Bowser's second-in-command before Bowser Jr. took over that role later on.

Ow really? Wow learn something new nearly everyday....

 

[N3ON]

When a reasonable 6th Gen shows its face, then one will be added. Until then, only Awakened Mewtwo.

I didn't realize almost all had the placeholders had been removed, so I guess that makes sense.

Dragonite is not so random when you consider Iris's temperamental Dragonite, which is rather notable in this point in time, even with advertisements and merchandise. Dragonite is less random at this point than Gardevoir, Scizor, Plusle & Minun, and Darkrai, who are also on the chart.

Well if we're going with characters who have had a notable recent role in the show, and have been used in advertisements and merchandise, where is Meloetta? She at least had very brief popularity for Smash, unlike Dragonite. I'd say a Pokemon owned by a supporting character on the show, who was mainly seen in promotion with the first gen, not now, and with very little actual popularity for Smash is more random than characters with actual relating-to-Smash demand. Doesn't really matter though, at this point Dragonite could only be replaced on the chart by someone with equally or even more of a random chance.

There is no reason why Rayquaza can't work as a character.

Tell me though, is there any reason Rayquaza is on here other than being a boss in Brawl? Because that's not a very good reason. He's not requested to be a character, he hasn't been planned in the past, he's never been a size he would have to be to be feasible as a playable character (unlike Ridley). For Ridley, Petey, Porky, etc. I can see why they could also work as characters... but I really don't see why Rayquaza in on the chart. A boss chart, sure.

Sakurai said nothing about Scizor being planned. Scizor is merely one of the more notable and feasible 2nd Gens.

Ok. I checked again, and it was just that Sakurai was planning a 2nd gen character for Melee (not Pichu), and none of the popular characters were seen as feasible by him. I could've sworn Heracross and Scizor were named, but I guess I was wrong. Chances are he was referring to Lugia anyway.

 

[Opossum]

Ok. I checked again, and it was just that Sakurai was planning a 2nd gen character for Melee (not Pichu), and none of the popular characters were seen as feasible by him. I could've sworn Heracross and Scizor were named, but I guess I was wrong. Chances are he was referring to Lugia anyway.

To clarify, Heracross was actually mentioned in the Melee poll, having garnered quite a few votes. Scizor, if I remember correctly, had its Melee trophy state that it was "a popular Pokemon among collectors," showing that Sakurai acknowledged its popularity.


Snorlax would be a good Dragonite replacement.

 

[N3ON]

To clarify, Heracross was actually mentioned in the Melee poll, having garnered quite a few votes. Scizor, if I remember correctly, had its Melee trophy state that it was "a popular Pokemon among collectors," showing that Sakurai acknowledged its popularity.

Snorlax would be a good Dragonite replacement.

Yeah, that, plus I just remember those two having quite a bit of popularity back then, is why I guess I thought they were mentioned specifically. If Sakurai was only referring to Lugia (who had a few votes on the Melee poll IIRC), I could see how that would be unfeasible (similar to Rayquaza ), but if he was also referring to Heracross, or Scizor, or both, I disagree, I think those two could've been made characters if Sakurai so desired. Oh well. Also funny how Heracross's popularity has largely passed but Scizor's remains. Then again, I didn't get the big deal about Heracross in the first place.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, that, plus I just remember those two having quite a bit of popularity back then, is why I guess I thought they were mentioned specifically. If Sakurai was only referring to Lugia (who had a few votes on the Melee poll IIRC), I could see how that would be unfeasible (similar to Rayquaza ), but if he was also referring to Heracross, or Scizor, or both, I disagree, I think those two could've been made characters if Sakurai so desired. Oh well. Also funny how Heracross's popularity has largely passed but Scizor's remains. Then again, I didn't get the big deal about Heracross in the first place.

I would guess that the anime helped Heracross a bit, along with being a new fighting type at the time.

Scizor would be awesome in Smash. Bullet Punch!:D

 

[Deleted member]

Well if we're going with characters who have had a notable recent role in the show, and have been used in advertisements and merchandise, where is Meloetta? She at least had very brief popularity for Smash, unlike Dragonite. I'd say a Pokemon owned by a supporting character on the show, who was mainly seen in promotion with the first gen, not now, and with very little actual popularity for Smash is more random than characters with actual relating-to-Smash demand. Doesn't really matter though, at this point Dragonite could only be replaced on the chart by someone with equally or even more of a random chance.

Because Meloetta was pretty much just a short time deal while Dragonite is still around. Aside from that, no one suggested Meloetta when I brought up the Consideration List, nor raised issue about Dragonite.

Tell me though, is there any reason Rayquaza is on here other than being a boss in Brawl? Because that's not a very good reason. He's not requested to be a character, he hasn't been planned in the past, he's never been a size he would have to be to be feasible as a playable character (unlike Ridley). For Ridley, Petey, Porky, etc. I can see why they could also work as characters... but I really don't see why Rayquaza in on the chart. A boss chart, sure.

"A size he would have to be to be feasible".
Tell me something. Do you honestly believe that Rayquaza is 20 ft tall? He's not. He's around 20 ft long.
Rayquaza is actually much smaller than what Brawl has him. I know this because in the 3D games, Rayquaza is barely larger than Swampert (my two most used in my old Sapphire), as compared to Groudon and Kyogre, who are portrayed as absolutely massive.
Best example I can give right now is this video around the 4:52 range (but since Drizzle is in effect, the screen is murky from rain).

Look at the size difference between Mewtwo and Rayquaza. It's actually not that much, and Mewtwo is only 6 feet. Also note how Dialga, a Legendary with a lower height stat than Rayquaza, seems to dwarf it. That's because if Rayquaza was fully stretched out, from tail to head, it would be taller. But Rayquaza is not stretched out.
There's also another case later in the video on the opposing team with Rayquaza and Mewtwo, this time with Arceus to compare to. Arceus is only 10 ft, and still seems to be much larger in overall size than Rayquaza.
So yeah, size is no issue, as Rayquaza (like Porky) had been scaled up in Brawl.

Ok. I checked again, and it was just that Sakurai was planning a 2nd gen character for Melee (not Pichu), and none of the popular characters were seen as feasible by him. I could've sworn Heracross and Scizor were named, but I guess I was wrong. Chances are he was referring to Lugia anyway.

Sakurai was referring to all 2nd Gen Pokémon that were popular, not just Lugia. That included Pichu, who was seen as too similar to Pikachu at first. It was, however, the similarity that helped Pichu when the clones were added later.

 

[N3ON]

Because Meloetta was pretty much just a short time deal while Dragonite is still around. Aside from that, no one suggested Meloetta when I brought up the Consideration List, nor raised issue about Dragonite.

Yes, but Meloetta not only had a recurring role in the show, but was also used in promotion more than Dragonite (recently ofc) and had more Smash popularity than Dragonite, which in total kinda outweighs the points Dragonite has in its favour. I don't really think either should be on the chart, and I'm not trying to promote Meloetta, but we might as well add like... Axew, that's Iris's main Pokemon in the show, isn't it? And it's appeared more frequently in promotion as of late also. Either way, I don't think Dragonite would be a bad character for Smash, just a random one. More random than Darkrai, Plusle & Minun, Gardevoir, or Scizor tbh.

But yeah, I wasn't following the thread when the Pokemon were being suggested, so I guess I've missed my chance.

"A size he would have to be to be feasible".
Tell me something. Do you honestly believe that Rayquaza is 20 ft tall? He's not. He's around 20 ft long.
Rayquaza is actually much smaller than what Brawl has him. I know this because in the 3D games, Rayquaza is barely larger than Swampert (my two most used in my old Sapphire), as compared to Groudon and Kyogre, who are portrayed as absolutely massive.
Best example I can give right now is this video around the 4:52 range (but since Drizzle is in effect, the screen is murky from rain).
Look at the size difference between Mewtwo and Rayquaza. It's actually not that much, and Mewtwo is only 6 feet. Also note how Dialga, a Legendary with a lower height stat than Rayquaza, seems to dwarf it. That's because if Rayquaza was fully stretched out, from tail to head, it would be taller. But Rayquaza is not stretched out.
There's also another case later in the video on the opposing team with Rayquaza and Mewtwo, this time with Arceus to compare to. Arceus is only 10 ft, and still seems to be much larger in overall size than Rayquaza.
So yeah, size is no issue, as Rayquaza (like Porky) had been scaled up in Brawl.

I think Rayquaza would probably be pretty impossible. If they put their best efforts into it, they may be able to do it. But he might be a little slow.

Even if size and proportions somehow aren't an issue, you didn't really touch the rest of what I said about it, which I still stand by. Just because he was a boss isn't a good reason to think he has any kind of chance at being playable. You should've included characters you said you would, like Blaziken, over a character never brought up during the suggestion period.

Sakurai was referring to all 2nd Gen Pokémon that were popular, not just Lugia. That included Pichu, who was seen as too similar to Pikachu at first. It was, however, the similarity that helped Pichu when the clones were added later.

Ok.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, but Meloetta not only had a recurring role in the show, but was also used in promotion more than Dragonite (recently ofc) and had more Smash popularity than Dragonite, which in total kinda outweighs the points Dragonite has in its favour. I don't really think either should be on the chart, and I'm not trying to promote Meloetta, but we might as well add like... Axew, that's Iris's main Pokemon in the show, isn't it? And it's appeared more frequently in promotion as of late also. Either way, I don't think Dragonite would be a bad character for Smash, just a random one. More random than Darkrai, Plusle & Minun, Gardevoir, or Scizor tbh.

But yeah, I wasn't following the thread when the Pokemon were being suggested, so I guess I've missed my chance.

Meloetta's Smash popularity was near non-existant.
Quite frankly, the only reason it had any at all was because it was the "newest" and "most recent" rep 5th Gen had to offer. Yet unlike Victini, it never really caught on (and Victini still has some Smash popularity, though it's behind Genesect and juggernaut Zoroark). And since Genesect was revealed much earlier than expected, Genesect pretty much killed any meager support Meloetta had. If anything, Meloetta is just like Keldeo. Sure, they both had some Smash support, but it was near nonexistent and didn't last long.
As for Dragonite, as you're going to inevitably counter with "but Dragonite doesn't have ANY known support", bear in mind that Dragonite is not a 5th Gen nor Mewtwo. If I was going to be completely honest with who has a shot, it's down to a 5th Gen (mainly Zoroark, Genesect, and a straggling Victini), a currently unrevealed 6th Gen if there is one that would be popular and feasible and Sakurai knows about it already, and Mewtwo. They are also the only ones with clear support.
So not even Meowth, who has been a part of the anime since the 2nd episode is likely or has a good amount of support. Yet he's on the chart and no one is complaining.

As for promotion, Dragonite has been going steady for quite some time around the time since Iris caught it, and still gets promotion. In fact, it gets more promotion than Axew at this point, given that the initial hint that Mewtwo would be returning (as well as Charizard's return and Eevee playing a major role in the movie short) was promotional styluses for a 3DS, which featured Pikachu, Eevee, Charizard, "Iris' Dragonite" (the only one that was given a trainer label, given that the Dragonite had the pissed look on its face), Genesect, and Mewtwo.
Other promotional material marketed Charizard and Dragonite together, hinting at a connection between the two (and sure enough, there was; they became instant rivals).
The last time Axew got actual promotion in comparison was long ago.
Aside from that, to say Gardevoir and Scizor are less random than Dragonite makes no sense whatsoever.

I think Rayquaza would probably be pretty impossible. If they put their best efforts into it, they may be able to do it. But he might be a little slow.

Even if size and proportions somehow aren't an issue, you didn't really touch the rest of what I said about it, which I still stand by. Just because he was a boss isn't a good reason to think he has any kind of chance at being playable. You should've included characters you said you would, like Blaziken, over a character never brought up during the suggestion period.

Rayquaza has more than being a boss going for it.
It's currently the most popular Version Mascot, was one of the Top 10 Pokémon in Japan (pre-Unova; there hasn't been a new poll since), a shiny one served as Nobunaga Oda's Perfect Linked Legendary in Pokémon Conquest (alongside Zekrom), had two special events last year (one of which being a 15th Anniversary of Pokémon Center where the Rayquaza was given Victini's signature move of V-Create, and a shiny one to celebrate the release of Pokémon Conquest), etc.
In comparison, what does Petey Piranha have going for him that warrants being on the chart other than being a boss?

Also, two corrections need to be made.
1) I never said I would include Blaziken on the chart itself, only that Blaziken would be on the Consideration List. Going through considerations, I chose to exclude Blaziken.
2) I've mentioned repeatedly that all Assists and Bosses that are feasible will be included on the chart (which meant excluding the likes of Andross and Metroid). This includes Rayquaza, despite your personal belief on its feasibility.
3) I didn't say Pichu was coming back either, yet Pichu is there. And this is after Pichu wasn't even planned for Brawl. So why you aren't going after Pichu and just Rayquaza seems a bit biased and hypocritical.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Even I admit that the Rayquaza thing is a stretch, despite it being a favorite of mine I don't see how it would exactly be feasible as a fighter in a practical sense.

 

[N3ON]

Look, Golden, I don't have any intent in getting into a debate over something as trivial as your chart, so since I'm guessing I'm wasting my time trying to change anything, I'll just drop it.

Defending a character so barely in the realm of possibility (Rayquaza) is surprising coming from you.

 

[Deleted member]

Except that Rayquaza isn't "so barely in the realm of possibility" outside the whole 5th Gen, 6th Gen, Mewtwo issue but that applies to every Pokémon. At which point, I shouldn't bother defending keeping anyone other than Pikachu, Jigglypuff, PT, Lucario, Mewtwo, Zoroark, Victini, and Genesect since everyone else is outside that realm.
Or a crapton of characters in the other charts who are much less probable than Rayquaza.

Funny how I greatly expand the chart (even split it up into several smaller charts) with a bunch of characters that honestly don't have any real shot in Hell to get people to stop complaining about how so-and-so isn't on the chart or "why is so-and-so here", etc., yet I still get it even after I get input and suggestions from others. -_-
It's like nothing will satisfy people until every single tiny detail is by every single person's standards. I'm thinking of just trashing the whole concept.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I like how Golden is missing the point entirely.

 

[Deleted member]

I like how Habanero is missing the point entirely yet is claiming someone else is.

 

[Ben Holt]

Except that Rayquaza isn't "so barely in the realm of possibility" outside the whole 5th Gen, 6th Gen, Mewtwo issue but that applies to every Pokémon. At which point, I shouldn't bother defending keeping anyone other than Pikachu, Jigglypuff, PT, Lucario, Mewtwo, Zoroark, Victini, and Genesect since everyone else is outside that realm.
Or a crapton of characters in the other charts who are much less probable than Rayquaza.

Funny how I greatly expand the chart (even split it up into several smaller charts) with a bunch of characters that honestly don't have any real shot in Hell to get people to stop complaining about how so-and-so isn't on the chart or "why is so-and-so here", etc., yet I still get it even after I get input and suggestions from others. -_-
It's like nothing will satisfy people until every single tiny detail is by every single person's standards. I'm thinking of just trashing the whole concept.

If it makes you feel better, I like the chart.

 

[Neanderthal]

Will there be a category for Miscellaneous Nintendo characters?
Need somewhere to put Mii and Mr Hanafuda.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyways, once I get in contact with AEM again, the next and final set of the chart is going to be worked on. Hopefully, everything will be ready for when the first trailer rears its head.

 

[Tunsie]

I don't get why people are complaining. If they don't like the charts, they can make their own and do what they want with them or just not go on this thread. The charts, in my opinion, are quite nice and a great reference point for potential characters. My only complaint would be the hideous art chosen for Miciah, but that all comes down to personal preference.