Smash 4 Advanced Technique: Pivot Cancelling/Turndashing(A New Movement Technique!)

[Lozjam]

If you can see in this video here, Smash Bros Italia performs what they call the Turnaround Cancel.

I think a better name would be a Pivot Cancel, or perhaps Turndashing. Now I believe this has quite the potential for differing movement options. What do you guys think of this technique?
Edit: I think I understand its uses a little bit more.
It can be used to slide and attack in whatever direction you choose! Look at the item section in 1:05, Mario is dashing to the right quickly pivots and still throws the item to the right while sliding to the right! We can take that into Smashes and Tilts as well, so if Mario is dashing to the right he will pivot and do a right forward smash with the C-Stick. And if stutter step returns Mario will get even more reach with his forward smash! So this can be applies to items, Smashes, and tilts. This could evolve the metagame for Smash 4! Special thanks to @Skull_Kid and his community for bringing this video to attention. You guys really do rock!

 

[ImaClubYou]

It makes dust clouds like a wavedash but it definitely doesn't have everything a wavedash has to offer like platform movement and ledge tricks.

I'd honestly call it something like Dash Tilt Pivot, Dash Smash Pivot, Dash Garb Pivot, etc.

These tricks also look almost intentional as well. There's no way they wouldn't catch this even early in development.

 

[Lozjam]

It makes dust clouds like a wavedash but it definitely doesn't have everything a wavedash has to offer like platform movement and ledge tricks.

I'd honestly call it something like Dash Tilt Pivot, Dash Smash Pivot, Dash Garb Pivot, etc.

These tricks also look almost intentional as well. There's no way they wouldn't catch this even early in development.

Yes, but I think besides the platform movement, it could make characters have more reach while approaching. Which can support offensive play. I am no means for or against Wavedashing in Melee, but this could be a more strict, easy to do alternative for people that are concerned Smash 4 will be like Brawl.

 

[Nintendo Fan]

Well this certainly looks interesting. I won't have to worry about dash-attacking anymore and pivot grabbing seems even easier.

 

[ryuu seika]

Interesting. How quickly can the dash portion be performed out of a turn around? Can one easily run up and backstep away again using this technique so as to bait attacks? Also, if I recall correctly, it has already been confirmed to allow the jab, any tilt or any C smash but not any non-C smash, thereby dividing the Wii U and 3DS versions somewhat.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I know you mean well but please, please don't call it this game's wavedash... I remember when Brawl first came out and people searched tirelessly for "Brawl's wavedash" but never found it. It's apparent already that this game isn't going to have wavedashing but, like Brawl, it will have it's own ATs and will give the game its own distinct feel. A minor nitpick but it got old fast when the first 2-3 months after Brawl was released was largely dedicated to people searching for an equivalent to wavedashing as if it were the Holy Grail, leading to a metagame that was severely campy and borderline painful to watch.

 

[Khao]

It sounds more like a Dash Cancel replacement than anything remotely related to wavedashing.

Doesn't really creates more movement options, just lets you do more stuff out of a dash.

 

[Lozjam]

I know you mean well but please, please don't call it this game's wavedash... I remember when Brawl first came out and people searched tirelessly for "Brawl's wavedash" but never found it. It's apparent already that this game isn't going to have wavedashing but, like Brawl, it will have it's own ATs and will give the game its own distinct feel. A minor nitpick but it got old fast when the first 2-3 months after Brawl was released was largely dedicated to people searching for an equivalent to wavedashing as if it were the Holy Grail, leading to a metagame that was severely campy and borderline painful to watch.

Ah sorry, I did not mean to call it directly a wavedash, mainly an equivalent to it as Turnaround Cancel, or Turndash, or Pivot Cancel, or whatever you want to call it is a movement technique. I will change the title as it has caused a misunderstanding

 

[pickle962]

Cool technique bro. Wavedashing for all intents and purposes very likely won't be returning in smash 4. However, this is a suitable alternative. Just need to see some dash dashing in this game and that will make my day

 

[Renji64]

Pretty cool it is something there hasn't been much going on the details of the gameplay side of things.

 

[Senario]

I know you mean well but please, please don't call it this game's wavedash... I remember when Brawl first came out and people searched tirelessly for "Brawl's wavedash" but never found it. It's apparent already that this game isn't going to have wavedashing but, like Brawl, it will have it's own ATs and will give the game its own distinct feel. A minor nitpick but it got old fast when the first 2-3 months after Brawl was released was largely dedicated to people searching for an equivalent to wavedashing as if it were the Holy Grail, leading to a metagame that was severely campy and borderline painful to watch.

I'm not so sure people's searching for advanced techs caused the campy gameplay of brawl. I think that type of gameplay would be standard eventually regardless.

But interesting find. I would much prefer having a confirmation of dash dancing but meh.

 

[SmashChu]

Interesting. But, I'm not sure how you'll use it that well. See, you could just poke with the forward tilt normally. You don't need to run back in that regard. I guess it lets you do an attack out of running but you can only do it if you're running away from an opponent not towards them. It's link of like stutter shot in Awesomenauts. It's nice, but you can just play without it and do fine.

 

[D-idara]

Doesn't really creates more movement options, just lets you do more stuff out of a dash.

This is a contradictory statement, being able to do more out of a dash = more movement options.
On another note, this makes me go:

An 'advanced' technique that actually contributes to the game and doesn't seem like a chore to learn? YESZ!

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm not so sure people's searching for advanced techs caused the campy gameplay of brawl. I think that type of gameplay would be standard eventually regardless.

But interesting find. I would much prefer having a confirmation of dash dancing but meh.

Brawl still ended up campy but the early days were much, much worse. I remember some of the worst cases were basically just people standing on opposite ends of the stage shooting projectiles at each other 90% of the match and what I can only call "paranoid spacing." My point is that I feel like the search for a "game changing AT" slowed down the early stages of Brawl's metagame development and I don't think that should be the focus with experimentation.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I couldn't help but think that this vaguely resembles what we saw in this video right in the beginning.

Mario cancels out his sliding animation with Jab, when in previous games he would have just done nothing or a dash attack. I feel like the dev team may know something about this.

Also, it may be possible to turn around again and by buffering an input similar to the item toss, but who knows.

Lol it's funny, I was actually talking about having something exactly like this a while back.

 

[Lozjam]

Interesting. But, I'm not sure how you'll use it that well. See, you could just poke with the forward tilt normally. You don't need to run back in that regard. I guess it lets you do an attack out of running but you can only do it if you're running away from an opponent not towards them. It's link of like stutter shot in Awesomenauts. It's nice, but you can just play without it and do fine.

Not necessarily. Think about this. You run to the right and then pivot, then input a right smash with the c stick. This will make Mario slide into the smash. Look at 1:04 at the video in the OP. The same thing was done with items. Mario was sliding while throwing an item! So the same could be done for smashes and maybe tilts

 

[Nintendo Fan]

Brawl still ended up campy but the early days were much, much worse. I remember some of the worst cases were basically just people standing on opposite ends of the stage shooting projectiles at each other 90% of the match and what I can only call "paranoid spacing." My point is that I feel like the search for a "game changing AT" slowed down the early stages of Brawl's metagame development and I don't think that should be the focus with experimentation.

That was the worst. It probably aided the downfall of Brawl's reputation too since the very beginning consisted of players just hoping to hit through spams, and this removing the “fray” aspect (can't really include the word combos).

Aside from this, I see this new method of play as being only situational, as many things are with Brawl. This new “turndashing” maneuver could be used to stand near the edge (not edge-hog since that doesn't work with the new ledge game) and run away to smash back at the player who recovered and attempts to climb back onto the stage. Even this is hopeful, but 4-player battles most likely take a shine to this new technique, or stages with platforms. Regardless, at least tripping is gone...

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Not necessarily. Think about this. You run to the right and then pivot, then input a right smash with the c stick. This will make Mario slide into the smash. Look at 1:04 at the video in the OP. The same thing was done with items. Mario was sliding while throwing an item! So the same could be done for smashes and maybe tilts

You may also be able to to do it with tilts as well since you can hold the direction of the smash attack on the joy stick and hit the direction on the c-stick to do a coo responding tilt.

You would have to hit forward to dash, then back to slide, then during the slide animation immediately hit forward then C-stick forward. It sounds somewhat technical, but it will make tilts very effective.

Now doing this with a down smash may prove to be much more difficult.

 

[Lozjam]

You may also be able to to do it with tilts as well since you can hold the direction of the smash attack on the joy stick and hit the direction on the c-stick to do a coo responding tilt.

You would have to hit forward to dash, then back to slide, then during the slide animation immediately hit forward then C-stick forward. It sounds somewhat technical, but it will make tilts very effective.

Now doing this with a down smash may prove to be much more difficult.

You are right. But for down smashes, it doesn't matter, It will attack on both sides anyway, all you need to do is initiate the sliding animations by inputting the opposite direction out of dash, you will slide, then just input the down smash. It would be the same for Up Smashes too!

 

[Dott]

Brand-new advanced techniques

Yes.

 

[Nintendo Fan]

Now doing this with a down smash may prove to be much more difficult.

Oops! I completely forgot about the possibility of a down smash or tilt. Wonder how it would work too. Then again, why input that when you could just use one of the other smashes or tilts? Aside from start-up lag reduction now it seems kind of pointless, and if the situation was that dire, there would clearly be better options. If there was something regarding a ledge or height difference I guess it could work, but most f-smashes hit as low as Pikachu (sometimes even crouched) and some are tilt-able too. I find it hard to understand how useful anything “down-related” could be with this technique...

 

[Ginger Hail]

Interesting. Can't wait to see how things develop from here.

 

[Lozjam]

Oops! I completely forgot about the possibility of a down smash or tilt. Wonder how it would work too. Then again, why input that when you could just use one of the other smashes or tilts? Aside from start-up lag reduction now it seems kind of pointless, and if the situation was that dire, there would clearly be better options. If there was something regarding a ledge or height difference I guess it could work, but most f-smashes hit as low as Pikachu (sometimes even crouched) and some are tilt-able too. I find it hard to understand how useful anything “down-related” could be with this technique...

It's the fact that Mario or another character could slide into their down smashes. If you look closely, the Turndashing is making Mario slide, that much is very clear when the show the item Turndash.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Just realized Bowser's gonna look sick with it sliiding around with drop kicks and straight punches hoo weeeeee.

 

[Nintendo Fan]

It's the fact that Mario or another character could slide into their down smashes. If you look closely, the Turndashing is making Mario slide, that much is very clear when the show the item Turndash.

Well, in that case, it seems like a good option. Reminds me of a DACUS mixed with glide-tossing. However does this only work with item, because then that would render it useless for most matches.

It seems like a good approach option for mindgames though, since you could fake a dash, halt abruptly, then resume movement with a smash.

 

[Lozjam]

Well, in that case, it seems like a good option. Reminds me of a DACUS mixed with glide-tossing. However does this only work with item, because then that would render it useless for most matches.

It seems like a good approach option for mindgames though, since you could fake a dash, halt abruptly, then resume movement with a smash.

I don't think that's the case. We know you can input direct the opposite direction you are, and you will immediately turn and perform the smash in the direction you imputed. This was even a huge advantage in Brawl, because you could get extra reach with your Smash because you will do a small step that will give you more reach.
Here is what I am talking about

Look at 0:20

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Oops! I completely forgot about the possibility of a down smash or tilt. Wonder how it would work too. Then again, why input that when you could just use one of the other smashes or tilts? Aside from start-up lag reduction now it seems kind of pointless, and if the situation was that dire, there would clearly be better options. If there was something regarding a ledge or height difference I guess it could work, but most f-smashes hit as low as Pikachu (sometimes even crouched) and some are tilt-able too. I find it hard to understand how useful anything “down-related” could be with this technique...

I know with Marth, some players tend to zone out characters at the edge by pressuring with SHFFL Aerials followed by wavedash back D-tilt , or if the tech towards you during a situation. This could essentially emulate that.

Speaking of which, this may be very useful for zoning and spacing with Sheik. Dash in with D-smash after an attack will be good. Not to mention she has mad combos in this game and needle cancels.

Damn...Sheik might be really good again.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Just realized Bowser's gonna look sick with it sliiding around with drop kicks and straight punches hoo weeeeee.

Yoooooooo!

=D

 

[mtmaster]

This looks interesting, but I am seriously hoping that you will be able to do this will all control schemes, and now just the Classic and GCC.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

I can already see the Diddys bananadashing.

 

[Nintendo Fan]

I don't think that's the case. We know you can input direct the opposite direction you are, and you will immediately turn and perform the smash in the direction you imputed. This was even a huge advantage in Brawl, because you could get extra reach with your Smash because you will do a small step that will give you more reach.
Here is what I am talking about

Do you mean dashing then smashing in Brawl? Certain characters with bad traction (i.e. Luigi or Falcon) could not perform that very well.

I mean dashing then inputting the opposite direction, and to prevent the smash from immediately coming out either do a simple jab (as the attack during the “turndash”) to delay the fact that now the smashes come out instantaneously, or simply charge it for a delay. This could function as a mindgame.

EDIT: Oh, I see what you're referencing.

 

[Lozjam]

Do you mean dashing then smashing in Brawl? Certain characters with bad traction (i.e. Luigi or Falcon) could not perform that very well.

I mean dashing then inputting the opposite direction, and to prevent the smash from immediately coming out either do a simple jab (as the attack during the “turndash”) to delay the fact that now the smashes come out instantaneously, or simply charge it for a delay. This could function as a mindgame.

No. Doing the turndash in the same direction is possible. Look how Mario was turndashing the item? The same thing will be possible with smashes and tilts because you can use the C-Stick. There would not be a delay, at least I don't think. I think there could be if you wanted to, but with practice it could be instantaneous.

 

[Pazzo.]

Very interesting... but the name needs to change...

TURNABOUT CANCEL!!!!

 

[Lozjam]

Very interesting... but the name needs to change...

TURNABOUT CANCEL!!!!

I think Turndash would be a good name.

 

[Nintendo Fan]

No. Doing the turndash in the same direction is possible. Look how Mario was turndashing the item? The same thing will be possible with smashes and tilts because you can use the C-Stick. There would not be a delay, at least I don't think. I think there could be if you wanted to, but with practice it could be instantaneous.

OK. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Also, if you still don't understand what I meant, I'm talking about performing this new technique from a distance, (so it becomes predictable rather than up close since the lag will be so minuscule that a delay wouldn't matter). By rushing towards the opponent, they'd forced to prepare by either shielding, etc., where you would then stall a smash or tilt with something that has less lag like a jab in the direction opposite of the dash. Then, you'd use the smash or tilt, since the delay was unexpected.

 

[NoiseHERO]

I'ma call it Ferris Bueller Snap Back.

Also I agree this looks super intentionally put into the game. Not that that should matter.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Now its going to get patched. Nice going guys.

 

[Lozjam]

Now its going to get patched. Nice going guys.

I believe this is completely intentional. As Phoenix states

I couldn't help but think that this vaguely resembles what we saw in this video right in the beginning.

Mario cancels out his sliding animation with Jab, when in previous games he would have just done nothing or a dash attack. I feel like the dev team may know something about this.

Also, it may be possible to turn around again and by buffering an input similar to the item toss, but who knows.

Lol it's funny, I was actually talking about having something exactly like this a while back.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I believe this is completely intentional. As Phoenix states

Lol. It's an old joke.

 

[Lozjam]

Lol. It's an old joke.

Still... We can see Mario doing it, and I doubt something like this would be glossed over. They intentionally made it easy to do, else they would have caught it, unlike Wavedashing