Shortened Jumps via Frame-Perfect Aerials

[Shai Hulud]

Jumps can be shortened 2 frames if the aerial comes out the first available frame. For example, with Fox:

Frame 0 - Jump
Frame 1 -
Frame 2 -
Frame 3 - NAIR = SH + NAIR on the next frame

Obviously people have been doing this accidentally for a long time in the course of SHFFLing well, but I don't know if people are actually aware of the effect it has. I did some searches, found nothing.

The quicker your character jumps, the more useful this is. With Fox, during a perfect SHFFL'd NAIR that comes out on the first available frame, Fox is airborne for 13 frames. A SHFFL'd NAIR with every other NAIR timing has Fox airborne 15 frames, so doing a frame-perfect NAIR makes Fox airborne for 13.33% fewer seconds. The entire SHFFL NAIR cycle takes 23 frames or 25 frames depending on timing, for an 8% reduction.

You can do some really fast SHFFLs like this

But like all 1-frame techs, consistency is difficult.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It shortens your FHs too from what I can observe. Do you have any data on that?

Thanks for making this thread. =)

 

[Strong Badam]

gravity attribute (0x05C) is applied frame 1 of aerial but not frame 1 of jump. with falco for example his "middle hop" is 0.17 units shorter than a normal fullhop.

 

[ajp_anton]

gravity attribute (0x05C) is applied frame 1 of jump but not frame 1 of aerial.

I think you mean the opposite =).

Why is it more useful for characters with quicker jumps?

I've never really tried to do this in matches, but in 1P stadium it's used sometimes.

 

[Shai Hulud]

It shortens your FHs too from what I can observe. Do you have any data on that?

Thanks for making this thread. =)

Yeah as far as I can tell it shortens short hops and full jumps, almost always by 2 frames, regardless of whether it's fast fallen or not. I only completely tested Fox and Falco though. I think Falco had one aerial that was shortened by 1 frame instead of 2, but I can't remember for certain.

Interesting thing I forgot to mention: B attacks shorten jumps as well, so SHL with Fox and Falco done on first available frame causes the shorter jump. Of course, the laser is so high it will miss quite a few characters. Frame perfect SHDL with Fox is 2 frames shorter than the other 2 possible timings, which is another reason why frame perfect SHDL is much better than other timings (the other reason being that both lasers will actually hit many opponents in standing stance, see this thread for details).

And you're welcome

ajp_anton: It is more useful for characters with shorter (faster, really) jumps because it makes a bigger relative difference in the SHFFL speed. For instance if with one character a SHFFL takes 50 frames then this only shaves off 2 for a 4% speed increase, but if you are using Fox where the SHFFL takes 25 frames then this shaves 2 for a 8% speed increase. The difference is just not noticeable for long jumps, but for very short jumps (Fox and Falco especially) the difference is visibly noticeable at least for me. There may be some quirks with other characters where for instance with Marth an aerial that might normally not tip through a platform would tip if you do it first available frame, or it might not hit at all. I have noticed sometimes on YS I think FJ UAIR won't hit the top platform if timed too early (IIRC).

Strong Bad: How do you find this kind of information, like about the gravity attribute? I assume you are doing something with Dolphin maybe?

 

[Ripple]

I need a video to see the visable differences these actually make

 

[Strong Badam]

EDIT: nvm that part
the gravity attribute is subtracted from your vertical momentum every frame. it's actually possible to get a value for how high jumps are with summation. a jump's attribute is X [units] per frame vertically, so you'd go (X - gravity) + (X - 2*gravity) etc until you're adding 0, then add them all.

Shai: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313930 open a file and then go to the Attributes tab. BTW "shortening jumps" by frames changing from aerial to aerial is due to the dynamic Stage Collision Detection a character has based on his model's positioning, which changes based on animation. So like, Falco's Bair has him doing the splits so he lands a bit later than if he's spinning downward with a Dair.

 

[ajp_anton]

no, it's correct.

To make a jump shorter with gravity, you need *more* of it and not less. You said an aerial will have "1 frame less" gravity.

 

[Strong Badam]

oh, yeah you're right. my bad. yeah frame 1 of jump doesn't apply gravity but frame 1 of most other airborne actions do. edited.