SD Remix - 3.3 Full with Slippi Rollback Released!

[DeKu Skrub]

I use Bowser
RIP me

 

[DeKu Skrub]

BTW, I love Bowsers new D-air. So much more useful and easy to spike with.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Don't forget C. Rabbit who is a very prominent melee Kirby main until he recently talked about dropping him for Marth.

 

[Quillion]

I want to ask again: is it possible to have an SDR/vMelee toggle so that we can easily switch between the two characters to appreciate the differences?

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I want to ask again: is it possible to have an SDR/vMelee toggle so that we can easily switch between the two characters to appreciate the differences?

Why not just use the latest 20xx build for this?

 

[DeKu Skrub]

Because SDR C. Falcon in 20XX is nothing like his regular SDR counterpart.

 

[_Snover_]

How could SD Remix be improved? I'm too lazy/occupied to do anything but throw out ideas. The "balanced" cast may need a complete overhaul and I was thinking of contacting the best low tier mains to in order to get good input (even though they probably love their chars the way they are and hate SDR). In any way it would be intersting to know what they think. Getting top player input would be even better but not likely.

Kirby:

Triple R

Roy:

Sethlon, Pyro (darkoblivion on sb)

Bowser:

Nobody plays Bowser

Pichu:

Mmm, don't know any Pichus

Yoshi (arguably fine in vanilla):

Amsa, v3ctorman

DK:

Erm...Phis-it?

Link:

SAUS

Pika:

Pikachad, maybe even Axe

Ylink:

Laijin

Zelda:

Cosmo

Q&W:

Qerb

Ness:

Mofo

M2:

Goddamn, Zoma?

Maybe this thread could be useful for the direction of Ness changes? Simna, a very seasoned Ness main, makes some suggestions for changes. I haven't tried that mod out for myself, though. Mofo is inactive so I don't know if we could get a hold of him. I'll ask in the Pichu R&D group about what ideal changes would be to help get some discussion going for that character. I do really like SDR Pichu as-is, though... he's pretty well-designed IMO.

Personally, I feel like Ness is good, and I enjoy the changes in SD Remix a LOT, since they make him feel smoother. I do have to agree, though, with what Novi and Quillion said. I feel like I'm abusing jank with some aspects of his kit. For example, from playing with friends and in (my own) brackets a lot, I feel like his down throw has too many free follow-ups. In fact, it's almost exactly like Sheik/ICs dthrow. You can chaingrab Sheik and other Nesses with it, for example. You might also be able to chaingrab Sopo, but I don't remember. These problems also exist with dash attack. I feel like the connections are a little too free, and that its weakness to crouch cancelling and shielding should be more apparent. EDITs in bold: Forgot to mention... Fthrow definitely needs to be reduced in BKB. IMO it was pretty fine the way it was in vanilla. Ness is still not very strong, though, so I think those buffs could just be lessened and moved around to different moves/done differently. One "buff" I would propose is to change the angle of charging up smash to make YYG (yo-yo glitch) as easy to land as in vMelee, or maybe even easier, which could be done my changing the angle, maybe? Playing SDR, I noticed it's actually harder to pull it off since the yoyo seems to insta-knock down which often results in another hit, cancelling the YYG altogether.

Overall, I think mid-tiers are well-done here, and the problems seem to lie moreso with the lower tiers (Link and below, with a few exceptions such as Pichu, Roy, M2, and Kirby).
--

I found that Ness's PSI Magnet removes the yo-yo glitch hitbox when special moves shouldn't interfere with its presence. In vMelee, the hitbox persists even when Magnet is cast.

 

[Quillion]

Why not just use the latest 20xx build for this?

It's mainly an SDRL thing. Since we know that stages can be switched berween MC and disc, maybe characters can be the same. That way, we could easily run between vanilla and SDRL from one MC.

@_glook, can you answer this?

 

[_Snover_]

Glook's been mega busy lately, so I doubt he's had time to check smashboards. I'll see if I can contact him, though.

 

[Stormghetti]

Sorry, I'm kind of new to SD Remix, but I have tried it with my friend some months ago. Are you guys going to update this project? I hope so.

By the way, I'm loving the changes on Link, but I feel like he needs some things nerfed by a tiny bit, but overall, he's great in this.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Sorry, I'm kind of new to SD Remix, but I have tried it with my friend some months ago. Are you guys going to update this project? I hope so.

By the way, I'm loving the changes on Link, but I feel like he needs some things nerfed by a tiny bit, but overall, he's great in this.

At this point there's little hope of SDR being updated, since the person who practically built it (Ripple) has moved on from the project long ago. I really agree with your sentiment though, SDR is an unfinished product. Although the "brokenness" - aspect of various characters is, paradoxically, what makes it fun (cough, Pichu) it also means the game is truly not balanced and therefore not taken as seriously. Good character design is extremely hard to do. Melee top tiers are fantastically designed in a way that the depth of matchups only within top 8 characters is astounding. There are endless amounts little nuances in top tier matchups which are the gist of what makes Melee deep and enjoyable (contrary to what many people believe I think there's nothing "accidental" or "unintentional" in Melee's design). Somehow, I feel that SDR, at the moment, does not achieve the same amount of "sharpness" in design which makes the top tiers interesting. It's more like a matter of "let's speed up these moves and add knowckback" in a manner that results in a "cheap" feel and good but uninteresting characters. I am purposely overexaggerating
this point though, since it's not all true at all. It's more of a general sentiment of people who find something wrong with the project.
Especially the top players with whom I've had the pleasure to try this game out with (Armada, PPMD, Leffen) have expressed this concern continuously.

The fact is that SDR is, and has been for a long while, in the brink of death. That is because the development of the game has ceased and although it's fun, it is not a finished product. In a game like Melee tiny changes have massive implications and it is a very long and arduous process to balance a game like Melee. SDR probably should have taken the Project M approach to balancing and not release the game to the public so early. This would have retained the interested into to the game and we could have gathered more playtesters. But SDR's problem, from the start, has been lack of support and the small size of the development team. I've said this many times that SDR's true problem lies in the fact that it has no true audience. Melee is a difficult game and people would rather spend their time and energy into honing their skills into a game that actually has some kind of playerbase. Most people prefer the Melee the way it is, including low-tier heroes. And perhaps Melee would've never been as interesting if it was "better" (subjective term) balanced.

But hey, why do I play SDR (still, although infrequently)? I really think characters like Ness, Link, Roy and Kirby have such a cool character archetypes that I want to see them bettered for a more "complete" Melee experience.

/novel

 

[_Snover_]

The fact is that SDR is, and has been for a long while, in the brink of death.

Disagree. It's been getting more publicity over time. I do agree that the balancing needs work, though. A lot of things on Ness feel too guaranteed, for example.

 

[Stormghetti]

At this point there's little hope of SDR being updated, since the person who practically built it (Ripple) has moved on from the project long ago. I really agree with your sentiment though, SDR is an unfinished product. Although the "brokenness" - aspect of various characters is, paradoxically, what makes it fun (cough, Pichu) it also means the game is truly not balanced and therefore not taken as seriously. Good character design is extremely hard to do. Melee top tiers are fantastically designed in a way that the depth of matchups only within top 8 characters is astounding. There are endless amounts little nuances in top tier matchups which are the gist of what makes Melee deep and enjoyable (contrary to what many people believe I think there's nothing "accidental" or "unintentional" in Melee's design). Somehow, I feel that SDR, at the moment, does not achieve the same amount of "sharpness" in design which makes the top tiers interesting. It's more like a matter of "let's speed up these moves and add knowckback" in a manner that results in a "cheap" feel and good but uninteresting characters. I am purposely overexaggerating
this point though, since it's not all true at all. It's more of a general sentiment of people who find something wrong with the project.
Especially the top players with whom I've had the pleasure to try this game out with (Armada, PPMD, Leffen) have expressed this concern continuously.

The fact is that SDR is, and has been for a long while, in the brink of death. That is because the development of the game has ceased and although it's fun, it is not a finished product. In a game like Melee tiny changes have massive implications and it is a very long and arduous process to balance a game like Melee. SDR probably should have taken the Project M approach to balancing and not release the game to the public so early. This would have retained the interested into to the game and we could have gathered more playtesters. But SDR's problem, from the start, has been lack of support and the small size of the development team. I've said this many times that SDR's true problem lies in the fact that it has no true audience. Melee is a difficult game and people would rather spend their time and energy into honing their skills into a game that actually has some kind of playerbase. Most people prefer the Melee the way it is, including low-tier heroes. And perhaps Melee would've never been as interesting if it was "better" (subjective term) balanced.

But hey, why do I play SDR (still, although infrequently)? I really think characters like Ness, Link, Roy and Kirby have such a cool character archetypes that I want to see them bettered for a more "complete" Melee experience.

/novel

I agree with you. Most people, including those who don't play Melee, can notice how janky low-tiers look like, especially Kirby and Pichu, who are pretty good. Kirby is a tad too good and Pichu is way too good at this point, and I'd love to be a playtester for balance, but it seems I can't...

Some characters feel like you can do an attack that will put them in lots of hitstun and you'll have enough time to go get a drink (just exaggerating, but it does feel like that in some moves, and I don't like it that much). Link, for example, has the Smash 4 Down-Tilt (or Young Link D-Tilt) he was supposed to have since Melee came out, but since it was rushed, it never happened. The SD Remix Development Team made it have a meteor effect on the entire sword, no matter where you hit from, but I have a small problem with it: it fits better to Smash 4 because Smash 4 is overall slower, so Link can spike less easier than in this mod, and this kind of goes with Young Link's D-Tilt as well. I feel like the meteor hitbox should be improved, but don't make it the entire thing, or else it's too overpowered because of the fact that it's now faster.

Ganondorf's new Up-Tilt seems questionable, his Dash Attack armor looks reasonable... Down-B with less landing lag? I agree, Down-B is almost never used in combat, and now it can be, and this goes for Cpt. Falcon as well.

Both not being able to grab the edge with Side-B, but being able to jump out of it upon hit is the best change anyone could've ever done to them. Ganon's aerial mobility felt bad, and I'm glad it got improved, but I think the landing lag on L-Canceled F-Air should've been untouched (or was it? I forgot).

Yoshi looks great as of now, no complaints, but I'm not a Yoshi main... On second thought, I have a complaint: his egg stops all air momentum when done quick, something that Mr. G&W got fixed, but not Yoshi.

Mario's F-Air feels too fast... That's all I got for now.

Luigi got better recovery, but some changes make him way more annoying than he was before, like mid-air lagless fireballs and other things.

Ness got better changes on recoveries, and I think that was great, as well as better hitboxes. I've played with a very good Ness from EU (I also am in EU) that wanted to try out SD Remix, but I think he said Ness was too good. I wonder if he still feels that way.

Bowser overall is now way too good, but the way too good kind, unlike Pichu. He was completly unviable before, but he had terrifying moves that would destroy you in vanilla Melee and that would make him a character to be afraid of at some point, but he was still among the worst overall. His D-Air change, as Ganon's Up-Tilt, is also a questionable change, but I'd say it's better because his old D-Air was slow, hard to hit with and didn't quite kill as many of us expected.

Roy got the Marth buffs, and he seems like one of the most worked on characters, if not the most worked on. I'd say some of his changes feel off in a way, but they're barely worth turning down. I'd say playing the 1.02 version of SD Remix 3.2.1 is for the best, because Roy has a meteor and a spike, while Marth in PAL only has a meteor, so it'd be fair for both to have a spike, regardless of how hard it is to hit with Roy's spike. Also, Fox's Up-Air is better in NTSC, and that's a challenge for low-tiers, even if the change is not very huge. Link, Young Link and Bowser got their things back from 1.00 and 1.01, so that gives them more advantage on battle, despite their techs not being used a lot in real battles. Young Link's Up-B got better, but Link's Up-B got worst, which makes me sad, because I wanted that one thing back, but I guess you can't have mixed up things, or else this would be more PM like than anything.

Mewtwo... I've noticed great changes, but I'm sorry, I don't main Mewtwo either to feel a lot of changes.

Mr. Game & Watch... What can I say? He can spam way too hard with sausage, and I think that may have to be fixed, but other than that, I think his buffs are legit enough to call them "fixes".

Samus' Up-Smash is also questionable, but I don't know what to say about it for now. I've tested most lower tiers in SD Remix, but not all, and I barely touched Samus.

I've noticed changes on Dr. Mario, and I got to say they're great!

DK also got better, and him being able to jump out of a mid-air neutral B is great, but I wonder what the rest of the community thinks.

Zelda? I have to say she's really good, and she doesn't feel overpowered, great job!


I know I said I haven't noticed changes on some characters, despite knowing there's a changelog, but this is my PoV and the changes I can notice in real play. Sorry for the wall of text, but that's what I wanted to say now, and I hope SD Remix, somehow, gets updated in the future! This is a mod that should be taken somewhat seriously, just like PM, since this mod is among the best mods I've ever seen for Melee.

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

At this point there's little hope of SDR being updated, since the person who practically built it (Ripple) has moved on from the project long ago.

Still perplexed he somehow gets all the credit in the end, guess it's an Edison-Tesla ordeal. Maybe it's for the best since I have no interest in being associated with this game series.

Anyhow, game will be updated when it needs to be. There are certainly cheesy aspects of the game, but the common complaints I receive all come from relatively weak/inexperienced players. The top players speak in generalities that are agreeable, but only to the degree of the current knowledge of the game.

The issue is two-pronged. Some ideas in the game are unpolished. Likewise, the gameplay from various players (including top players) only scratches the surface of these character designs.

Forget all the romanticizing about the 'intentional' brilliance of Melee and understand that the game is over a decade old. The organics of the product are a result of over a decade of discovery, discussion, and perfection of ideas and application. The game is 'beautiful' because communities have had years to meld it into such. That is the beauty of games in general: to go beyond the intention of its original architects.

 

[HillustratedJ36]

I hope SD Remix, somehow, gets updated in the future! This is a mod that should be taken somewhat seriously, just like PM, since this mod is among the best mods I've ever seen for Melee.

Couldn't agree with you more. Even though SDR's effects haven't helped me in vMelee, I have fun nonetheless, particularly with Yoshi, Ganondorf, and recently Pichu. I'm not going to gamble at the chances of an update, but just throwing my Smash coins into this project.

*Bad pun intended

 

[Stormghetti]

Couldn't agree with you more. Even though SDR's effects haven't helped me in vMelee, I have fun nonetheless, particularly with Yoshi, Ganondorf, and recently Pichu. I'm not going to gamble at the chances of an update, but just throwing my Smash coins into this project.

*Bad pun intended

This mod motivates me to play vanilla Melee more, something I'm somehow not doing enough.

The fact that this mod won't be updated really saddens me. I hope someone else picks it up or something? This mod had a HUGE potential, trust me when I say this. This had the guts to become the Melee that never happened, and this project feels like that in pretty much a few moves.

 

[_Snover_]

The fact that this mod won't be updated really saddens me.

Anyhow, game will be updated when it needs to be.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Still perplexed he somehow gets all the credit in the end, guess it's an Edison-Tesla ordeal. Maybe it's for the best since I have no interest in being associated with this game series.

I'm sorry man. Didn't mean to understate your significance in this project. The fact is that I'm ignorant of the totality of your contributions. SDR can make it, but it takes a lot of work from various people. The buffs should be extremely minor and conservative in the beginning of the balancing process.

 

[Stormghetti]

"when it needs to be" doesn't mean soon...

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

"when it needs to be" doesn't mean soon...

When does it need to be updated then? I'd be curious to hear that. When there's a bigger demand for an update perhaps?

 

[_Snover_]

I feel like he means that it will be updated when the game is dug into a bit more and some glaring issues are found. Possibly if a community consensus is made?

 

[Ripple]

The buffs should be extremely minor and conservative in the beginning of the balancing process.

you should have seen v1 of SDR. everything has been nerfed since then

as a side note, I think you guys need to realize there is really no point to updating this. there is not enough of a following to throw out what would be a very minor update.

until someone figures out animation hacks, there's no point.

 

[Stormghetti]

you should have seen v1 of SDR. everything has been nerfed since then

as a side note, I think you guys need to realize there is really no point to updating this. there is not enough of a following to throw out what would be a very minor update.

until someone figures out animation hacks, there's no point.

But there is a point. We don't need animation hacks for now, we need nerfs, for characters like Mario and his F-Air or Pichu entirely.

 

[Ripple]

mario's fair is fine. I'd hardly call it abusable and the fact that mario doesn't have a good aerial finisher makes it fine.he's kinda comparable to a very ****ty falco even if you try fair > fair > smash attack

and why the hell would I nerf pichu? thanks to no animation hacks do you want pikachu and **** pikachu, or do you want pikachu and a fun "boss" character? having 2 normally viable pikachus is the stupidest things when they have the same moveset

there is not enough to differentiate between them unless you intentionally make something not make sense.

 

[Stormghetti]

mario's fair is fine. I'd hardly call it abusable and the fact that mario doesn't have a good aerial finisher makes it fine.he's kinda comparable to a very ****ty falco even if you try fair > fair > smash attack

and why the hell would I nerf pichu? thanks to no animation hacks do you want pikachu and **** pikachu, or do you want pikachu and a fun "boss" character? having 2 normally viable pikachus is the stupidest things when they have the same moveset

there is not enough to differentiate between them unless you intentionally make something not make sense.

Just make his F-Air a bit not too fast and it'd be good, I just don't want it to be so easy.

I mean... Pichu can combo way too easily, and I don't know what's up with that.

Also nerf some things from Ness? He has some easy set-ups and kills.

 

[_Snover_]

I think Pichu is fine. He's practically a whole new character and he's really fun to play and is easy to kill. Some Ness stuff is pretty silly in terms of guaranteed-ness but I would recommend just shifting those buffs (dthrow/fthrow) around elsewhere, not sure where that would be though...

IMO Mario is also fine. His fair is... fair.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

you should have seen v1 of SDR. everything has been nerfed since then

as a side note, I think you guys need to realize there is really no point to updating this. there is not enough of a following to throw out what would be a very minor update.

until someone figures out animation hacks, there's no point.

*

*

(Oh ****)

I know. I was testing the earlier versions and chatting with you about them (RIP Ness's shine). This all goes back to the endless Balanced Melee vs. Melee Minus - debate on what audience SDR should serve. I understood that at some point you were more interested in creating a sort of Melee minus, which would probably have a larger audience. But now there's Silly Melee too so ;_;

By the way, even though it's been a bumpy ride, I really appreciate the work done by you and sdremix_troubleshooter for making SDR. I've had a lot of really fun times playing this project and still do. It's really fun to body unsuspecting victims in moneymatches.

Perhaps you're right and SDR is fine the way it is. It has kinda become it's own thing as in not perfectly balanced Melee but not quite Melee minus either. I guess SDR will always have it's niche community and we can wonder together might Melee low tiers might have looked like if the game devs would've wanted to make them better. SDR needs to replace Melee Low Tier-side tournaments though

For a long time I had this idea that SDR ought to replace Melee as the superior version but I think it's better if we simply try to coexist with Melee and be our own thing.

*sigh*

 

[Stormghetti]

I think Pichu is fine. He's practically a whole new character and he's really fun to play and is easy to kill. Some Ness stuff is pretty silly in terms of guaranteed-ness but I would recommend just shifting those buffs (dthrow/fthrow) around elsewhere, not sure where that would be though...

IMO Mario is also fine. His fair is... fair.

But the problem is that he's too good. Have you seen his F-Air?

Mario's F-Air should be fast, but not that fast, imo...

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

But the problem is that he's too good. Have you seen his F-Air?

Mario's F-Air should be fast, but not that fast, imo...

Pichu might be borderline broken (dair, fair, bair, dsmash etc.) but he's still extremely light and his tech rolls suck. But he's def better than Pikachu though. Fast Fair doesn't break Mario, although he's recovery might be bit too good considering his strenghts...

E:

Stormghetti, I understand where you're coming from, but. Even with all the buffs, none of the SDR characters are actually as good as Melee top tiers imo. All top tier characters have borderline broken aspects to them but we've gotten used to them over the years and therefore overlook them. Also, these broken things are what makes Melee FUN. Take PAL vs. NTSC as an example. Sure PAL is more balanced, but which version is generally regarded as being more fun and has more swag? Fox is BROKEN as a character (in NTSC), it's just that he's really difficult to use effectively and demands alot of tech. I seriously think none of the SDR characters come close. Sure they're extremely good, but so are the top tiers, so what's the problem? Also not all SDR chars are even that good, Roy for example is still significantly worse than Marth simply because Marth is designed much better mechanics-wise. Only difference is that SDR chars are much more "roughly" designed, which is understandable without top player input and since it hasn't been made by Nintendo. Taken that into account the Vietgeek has honestly done quite a good job.

 

[_Snover_]

But the problem is that he's too good. Have you seen his F-Air?

Mario's F-Air should be fast, but not that fast, imo...

It still has a decent amount of startup. I don't see the issue here, especially when Falco, for example, has a much faster move that acts as a spike, while Mario's is only a meteor. Also, as Ripple said, Mario doesn't have a big aerial finisher that would make the change silly.

Pichu might be borderline broken (dair, fair, bair, dsmash etc.) but he's still extremely light and his tech rolls suck. But he's def better than Pikachu though.

I don't know about him being better than Pika, but I would say Pichu fits the glass cannon role nearly perfectly since, like you said, he has very poor defensive options in exchange for exceptional offense.

 

[Stormghetti]

It still has a decent amount of startup. I don't see the issue here, especially when Falco, for example, has a much faster move that acts as a spike, while Mario's is only a meteor. Also, as Ripple said, Mario doesn't have a big aerial finisher that would make the change silly.



I don't know about him being better than Pika, but I would say Pichu fits the glass cannon role nearly perfectly since, like you said, he has very poor defensive options in exchange for exceptional offense.

The thing is that he's not supposed to be Falco fast with it, but whatever.

 

[Stormghetti]

Pichu might be borderline broken (dair, fair, bair, dsmash etc.) but he's still extremely light and his tech rolls suck. But he's def better than Pikachu though. Fast Fair doesn't break Mario, although he's recovery might be bit too good considering his strenghts...

E:

Stormghetti, I understand where you're coming from, but. Even with all the buffs, none of the SDR characters are actually as good as Melee top tiers imo. All top tier characters have borderline broken aspects to them but we've gotten used to them over the years and therefore overlook them. Also, these broken things are what makes Melee FUN. Take PAL vs. NTSC as an example. Sure PAL is more balanced, but which version is generally regarded as being more fun and has more swag? Fox is BROKEN as a character (in NTSC), it's just that he's really difficult to use effectively and demands alot of tech. I seriously think none of the SDR characters come close. Sure they're extremely good, but so are the top tiers, so what's the problem? Also not all SDR chars are even that good, Roy for example is still significantly worse than Marth simply because Marth is designed much better mechanics-wise. Only difference is that SDR chars are much more "roughly" designed, which is understandable without top player input and since it hasn't been made by Nintendo. Taken that into account the Vietgeek has honestly done quite a good job.

I don't want the low-tiers to be worse or even better than top tiers. In my opinion, turning down Pichu a bit would be great, considering how free its combos can be, despite its recovery options and all, I don't think that makes up for it, even if they're not that good.

Listen... Pichu started as a joke character who was supposed to be bad on purpose, and if you make him better, that is great, so more people will play him, but this Pichu seems outright broken with its buffed aerials, but the main thing is that a character who is popular because it hurts itself during electric attacks and has very predictable recovery options is better than its counterpart in the tier list is a bit outrageous. I'm not telling them to make Pichu be worse than everyone else, but its buffs just don't seem right enough. If this mod were more balanced while still being broken, I think more people would play it, to be honest... And on top of that, Pichu is incredibly fast, so it's like a mini-Fox with lightning speed, is a bit hard to hit for some characters and has like one of the best aerials in the game right now, it seems.

I don't know about you, but the fact that Mario's F-Air is THAT fast doesn't look right to me.

 

[_Snover_]

But Mario's Fair isn't Falco fast. It has much longer startup.

Pichu has big advantages that come with his strong offense. Yes, if you aren't able to find openings on him he can seem broken, but he's extremely fragile.

 

[Stormghetti]

But Mario's Fair isn't Falco fast. It has much longer startup.

Pichu has big advantages that come with his strong offense. Yes, if you aren't able to find openings on him he can seem broken, but he's extremely fragile.

Well, yeah, but my point stands. The speed change doesn't have to be massive, though.

He's fragile, only then you encounter a REAL Pichu main and he may beat almost everyone or most people. I'd appreciate Pichu more if he was a bit toned down...

Also, with Ness, I tested this on Fox: Up-Throw to F-Throw off stage means he's basically dead... At 0%. That's so broken, lol!

 

[_Snover_]

Ness fthrow is stupid lol. Its BKB needs to be reduced.

 

[Stormghetti]

Ness fthrow is stupid lol. Its BKB needs to be reduced.

ASAP.

Also, I got to say chaingrabs overall in this mod can be pretty free.

 

[Achilles1515]

Something that SDR could severely benefit from, in my mind, are some legitimate codes to give the bad characters new options.Something creative, but not necessarily game changing. An example would be my code from a long time ago to make Samus' charge shot fire slower if Z is held when the shot is released. I think I have stated this same thing before in this thread, so sorry about that.

Another example, albeit not related to SDR because top tier privelege:

Fire Fox/Bird Eject - Press Z while traveling to eject (1.02) [Achilles]
C20E76D8 00000005
8063002C 80830668
548005EF 41820014
54800677 4182000C
38000000 90032348
4E800020 00000000

Spoiler: ASM

Fire Fox/Bird Eject - Press Z while traveling to eject

Inject @ 800e76d8 - interrupt for Fox/Falco firefox
- default code line is "blr", so it returns immediately and does nothing.
- executed for Fox and Falco
- check for A+shoulder button, and not just Z so that the eject can occur while frame advancing in Develop Mode

lwz r3,0x2c(r3) # load internal data offset
lwz r4,0x668(r3) # load instant buttons
rlwinm. r0,r4,0,23,23 # is A being pressed?
beq- END # if not, branch to end
rlwinm. r0,r4,0,25,27 # is Z/L/R being pressed?
beq- END # if not, branch to end
BOMB_OUT:
li r0,0
stw r0,0x2348(r3) # write 0 to...frames of Up-B travel left?

END:
blr # end Up-B interrupt

Punkline a GIF might be necessary!

I've honestly barely played the SDR characters (i.e. last time I played smash against another human was in February), but it seems like they have a really good base, or like Phase 0 character changes that involve minor hitbox adjustments/cooldown fixes/character attributes.

 

[Ripple]

if achilles is interested in making another SDR with cool codes included then I would come back to this project. although I still have the same computer so I can't really learn assembly. so it'd essentially be just achilles anyway.lol

 

[Punkline]

Another example, albeit not related to SDR because top tier privelege:

Fire Fox/Bird Eject - Press Z while traveling to eject (1.02) [Achilles]
C20E76D8 00000005
8063002C 80830668
548005EF 41820014
54800677 4182000C
38000000 90032348
4E800020 00000000

Spoiler: ASM

Fire Fox/Bird Eject - Press Z while traveling to eject

Inject @ 800e76d8 - interrupt for Fox/Falco firefox
- default code line is "blr", so it returns immediately and does nothing.
- executed for Fox and Falco
- check for A+shoulder button, and not just Z so that the eject can occur while frame advancing in Develop Mode

lwz r3,0x2c(r3) # load internal data offset
lwz r4,0x668(r3) # load instant buttons
rlwinm. r0,r4,0,23,23 # is A being pressed?
beq- END # if not, branch to end
rlwinm. r0,r4,0,25,27 # is Z/L/R being pressed?
beq- END # if not, branch to end
BOMB_OUT:
li r0,0
stw r0,0x2348(r3) # write 0 to...frames of Up-B travel left?

END:
blr # end Up-B interrupt

Punkline a GIF might be necessary!

I gotcha.

Something that SDR could severely benefit from, in my mind, are some legitimate codes to give the bad characters new options.Something creative, but not necessarily game changing. An example would be my code from a long time ago to make Samus' charge shot fire slower if Z is held when the shot is released.

I agree. You know though, Achilles1515 your custom character data modification event is the start of what could easily become a bridge of this gap between file edits and codes.

If there was a custom "conditional goto" event to use with it, I think that subaction events could actually be used (by those unable to write ASM) to make similar character edits. What do you think about this sort of thing?

 

[Stormghetti]

if achilles is interested in making another SDR with cool codes included then I would come back to this project. although I still have the same computer so I can't really learn assembly. so it'd essentially be just achilles anyway.lol

Oohh, I think both of you or either Achilles as you said should continue the project! I love this project, even if I was complaining about changes, but that's natural.