Samus SWD input.

[Chevy]

Reported this in a couple other places, just wanted to make sure it's fixed because it's kind of obscure.

The input for SWD is now frame 40 for the first input, and 41 or 42 for the second. In Melee, and previous versions of PM it was frame 41 for the first input, and frame 42(Melee/PM), or 43(PM only) for the second. It's essentially just 1 frame too early, discouraging me and presumably others from trying to do it and messing up muscle memory. Thanks.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Hey @ Chevy , did you test this in debug mode?

am about to attempt to reproduce to confirm.

 

[Chevy]

Yes, I've counted the frames dozens of times, in addition to the anecdotal evidence of just about every Samus player thinking it feels off.

 

[Narpas_sword]

i'm not doubting you , just checking if it was debug mode you used, or if you went into the PSA

 

[Chevy]

I assumed, just trying to back myself up. Still paranoid that I could be wrong.

 

[Narpas_sword]

the coding for it has definitely changed between 3.5 to 3.6, im jsut not familiar enough with PSA to know exactly what it is.

From the looks of things, 3.5
- has an asynchronous timer at 40 frames
- checks for SDW input
- then checks for second SWD input for 2 frames.

Whereas 3.6
- has an asynchronous timer at 39 frames
- checks for first SWD input for 2 frames
- then checks for second SWD input for 2 frames

 

[Boiko]

the coding for it has definitely changed between 3.5 to 3.6, im jsut not familiar enough with PSA to know exactly what it is.

From the looks of things, 3.5
- has an asynchronous timer at 40 frames
- checks for SDW input
- then checks for second SWD input for 2 frames.

Whereas 3.6
- has an asynchronous timer at 39 frames
- checks for first SWD input for 2 frames
- then checks for second SWD input for 2 frames

Asynchronous timer is the "start up" if you will, where the next line follows on the next frame. This is very strange that it checks the first input for two frames. That would mean that it's a minimum of a one frame window 41>42, but a maximum of four 40>43 with a requirement of waiting for the 41st frame to pass because it's still checking for the first input. That is, if I'm reading this correctly.

Can you post a screen cap of the action on PSA? I'm currently out of my home state for work. Or you can test it in debug to see if it works with these larger frame windows.

 

[Chevy]

Pretty damn sure the first input has to be on frame 40 now. I mean, I just counted frames but I couldn't get anything other than frame 40 first input, 41 or 42 second.

 

[Boiko]

Pretty damn sure the first input has to be on frame 39 now. I mean, I just counted frames but I couldn't get anything other than frame 39 first input, 40 or 41 second.

Do you mean 40 for first input? That's what it is according to PSA and is one frame less than the norm (41).

 

[Chevy]

Oops, yeah.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Ignore the blue line, it's just where i happened to have clicked before i took the screen cap.

 

[Chevy]

I didn't doubt that you were telling the truth, have you confirmed the 2 frame window for first input in debug mode though?

 

[Narpas_sword]

been away from console for a bit, so but should be able to get some testing done this arvo.


Trying to see what expected results would be with PSA

i also find debug mode finicky =/

edit: test data as follows (when there is a frame gap e.g 40-42, the stick was neutral in that frame)

Both 3.5 and 3.6 have a successful SWD with melee input.
3.5 had an extra SWD input that was put after the melee one.
3.6 does not have the extra window after the melee, instead having 2 extra windows before. (both starting on frame 40, and either finishing on 41 or 42)

So yes, while the SWD window is now earlier, it still has success when using the melee timing.

edit// i must have mucked up my counting. I'm not able to get the 41-42 SWD anymore.
input from magus re the new coding:

magus [20:46]
yes. it now checks the stick distance and applies the momentum on 42, same as melee and same landing visual cue from a ground bomb iirc

magus [20:46]
the 'extra' frame from melee was on the wrong side of the window

magus [20:48]
so instead of a 1 frame window to go from direction A to B on 41->42, its a 2 frame window on 40->42

magus [20:50]
nobody ever actually inputs 40 neutral, 41 A, 42 B because thats physically impossible, so it checking on 40 and not 41 isnt an issue

magus [20:57]
so while technically you cant do the same 41 A, 42 B and have it work as it does in melee debug but doing that in 3.5 does work, its more accurate in 3.6 because in melee you're holding A on 40 and 41 when doing it in real time which does work in 3.6, and the momentum timing and such is also matched while it wasnt in 3.5

Ive changed the spreadsheet to show this. The highlighted input would behave like the 41-42 in real time anyway.

I guess the difference in feeling can be put down to getting used to the later window.

 

[Chevy]

Hmm, this makes sense. But I still can't do the Melee input in debug mode. Whether that's debugs fault or not I don't know. Someone should try dual input 3.6b and Melee on Dolphin and see if Melee SWD works.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Edit'd post above with coders response.

This is now resolved.