• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Sakurai designed Greninja personally in one night's time (WOW)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
2,570
Location
Akron, OH
3DS FC
3540-0120-0225
So @Bunny8093 made a thread in the E3 subforum for the full audio capture of the E3 Round Table this year. I've been listening to the the whole thing, and I hadn't caught many new snippets, because so much of this was transcribed in tweets that night. BUT, when they started talking about Greninja, a juicy tidbit came out!

Here's the (audio only) video:


Skip to about 50 minutes in for the Greninja part.

They chose the roster for Smash 4 right at the beginning of the project, as you may or may not know. So, not only did they design Greninja off of Sugimori's drawings and design documents alone (X&Y was just as unfinished as Smash 4 was), but Sakurai himself designed all of Greninja's animations using a modelling doll THAT SAME NIGHT. He literally designed all the attacks and movements without ever seeing Greninja move.

I knew Sakurai was good, but dang. He's really good at this. I mean, just watch a match with Greninja in it! He's most people's favorite newcomer from the demo. He moves elegantly and has exciting moves. The original attacks that don't exist in Pokemon (yet), like the water daggers, feel legitimate -- they fit the character rather well and look like they fit.

In the past, there have always been characters that were in Smash that many of us questioned. They made us doubt Sakurai's true ability, somewhat. Not so much in the quality of the animations, so much as how "fitting" their animations were. I think, honestly, Sakurai has been improving over the years, and I think Ike and Greninja are great examples of his progress and skill.

For those unfamiliar with Ike's moveset origins, there's a Youtube video that explains just how much detail was put into his character moveset.

In closing, I'm not sure there's a ton more that can be said about this, and so I doubted the legitimacy of making a thread dedicated to this topic. However, I think that the future Greninja mains, the Pokemon fans, the fans of Smash, and the doubters of Sakurai would all benefit from seeing this piece of information front and center.

What do you think of all this?
 
Last edited:

Neo Zero

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
7,028
So @Bunny8093 made a thread in the E3 subforum for the full audio capture of the E3 Round Table this year. I've been listening to the the whole thing, and I hadn't caught many new snippets, because so much of this was transcribed in tweets that night. BUT, when they started talking about Greninja, a juicy tidbit came out!

Here's the (audio only) video:


Skip to about 50 minutes in for the Greninja part.

They chose the roster for Smash 4 right at the beginning of the project, as you may or may not know. So, not only did they design Greninja off of Sugimori's drawings and design documents alone (X&Y was just as unfinished as Smash 4 was), but Sakurai himself designed all of Greninja's animations using a modelling doll THAT SAME NIGHT. He literally designed all the attacks and movements without ever seeing Greninja move.

I knew Sakurai was good, but dang. He's really good at this. I mean, just watch a match with Greninja in it! He's most people's favorite newcomer from the demo. He moves elegantly and has exciting moves. The original attacks that don't exist in Pokemon (yet), like the water daggers, feel legitimate -- they fit the character rather well and look like they fit.

In the past, there have always been characters that were in Smash that many of us questioned. They made us doubt Sakurai's true ability, somewhat. Not so much in the quality of the animations, so much as how "fitting" their animations were. I think, honestly, Sakurai has been improving over the years, and I think Ike and Greninja are great examples of his progress and skill.

For those unfamiliar with Ike's moveset origins, there's a Youtube video that explains just how much detail was put into his character moveset.

In closing, I'm not sure there's a ton more that can be said about this, and so I doubted the legitimacy of making a thread dedicated to this topic. However, I think for all the future Greninja mains, the Pokemon fans, fans of Smash, and doubters of Sakurai would all benefit from seeing this piece of information front and center.

What do you think of all this?
.....I'm sorry if this is cliche but

SAKURAI IS GOD

Like holy, how does he even do that in one night, that's insane.
 

Hong

The Strongest
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
23,550
English
Greninja
Gre[ninja]
Japanese:
Gekkouga
Gek[kouga]

Ninja-based reptilian creature gets almost entirely bushin-inspired techniques. Out of all the characters in Smash Bros, there are certainly characters I would applaud for creativity before this, especially since he has very much demonstrated a lot of inspiration from ninjitsu lore in prior products.

Not to take anything away from Sakurai. Kirby's Adventure is what got me into gaming... it was like nothing I had seen before. Environments, enemies, abilities unimaginable at that age. Just saying that this character in particular really lends to himself rather naturally... even if one had not known the Pokemons moveset, his movement and attributes are about as ninja as it gets.
 

Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
2,570
Location
Akron, OH
3DS FC
3540-0120-0225
English
Greninja
Gre[ninja]
Japanese:
Gekkouga
Gek[kouga]

Ninja-based reptilian creature gets almost entirely bushin-inspired techniques. Out of all the characters in Smash Bros, there are certainly characters I would applaud for creativity before this, especially since he has very much demonstrated a lot of inspiration from ninjitsu lore in prior products.

Not to take anything away from Sakurai. Kirby's Adventure is what got me into gaming... it was like nothing I had seen before. Environments, enemies, abilities unimaginable at that age. Just saying that this character in particular really lends to himself rather naturally... even if one had not known the Pokemons moveset, his movement and attributes are about as ninja as it gets.
I can appreciate this point of view, as well.

I realize that some people may not be all that impressed by this, and that's fine. I admit that I am impressed by it. I'm not holding Greninja up as his best work, I'm just saying it's solid work and I think it's amazing he plotted it out himself so fast - and it turned out so well.

I still say characters like Captain Falcon, and even Pac Man, better show off his creativity. He made a lot of that from nothing. Falcon is kitschy as all get out. He is much beloved. We all have, at one point or another, yelled "FALCON PAWNCH!" with glee; we have all desired for moves to be shown to us, as it were.

I guess I made this thread because Sakurai made it a point to be proud of his accomplishment with the character, and I found it to be a special touch. It helps that I also really enjoy Greninja (and the other gen 6 Pokemon in general).
 

Hong

The Strongest
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
23,550
I can appreciate this point of view, as well.

I realize that some people may not be all that impressed by this, and that's fine. I admit that I am impressed by it. I'm not holding Greninja up as his best work, I'm just saying it's solid work and I think it's amazing he plotted it out himself so fast - and it turned out so well.

I still say characters like Captain Falcon, and even Pac Man, better show off his creativity. He made a lot of that from nothing. Falcon is kitschy as all get out. He is much beloved. We all have, at one point or another, yelled "FALCON PAWNCH!" with glee; we have all desired for moves to be shown to us, as it were.

I guess I made this thread because Sakurai made it a point to be proud of his accomplishment with the character, and I found it to be a special touch. It helps that I also really enjoy Greninja (and the other gen 6 Pokemon in general).
Ha ha, yeah. I would have never thought to pair Captain Falcon with super sentai themes, even though his outfit is inspired by it. Only after seeing it done, did it make sense.
 

VictoryIsMudkipz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
407
Location
Disney World
I mean is there any doubt in Sakurai's greatness, and although bold, I personally feel that once Iwata steps down (whenever that may be) I feel either he or Miyamoto should take his place as CEO/President of Nintendo of Japan, just because of their greatness..
 

xLemmy_KoopaX

Bring me my booty!
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
545
Location
Alola
NNID
xLemmy_KoopaX
Well, doesn't this make Gematsu kinda unbelievable?
This heavily implies that Greninja was finished WAY before E3 2013, so the leaker should've already known that it was him. "Pokemon from X/Y"? Either a) those documents were pretty old or b) that leak lied.
 

Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
2,570
Location
Akron, OH
3DS FC
3540-0120-0225
Well, doesn't this make Gematsu kinda unbelievable?
This heavily implies that Greninja was finished WAY before E3 2013, so the leaker should've already known that it was him. "Pokemon from X/Y"? Either a) those documents were pretty old or b) that leak lied.
It's not that simple. Before Greninja was selected and designed, there was a period early on where Sakurai had an open slot for "a Pokemon from X&Y." Sakurai confirmed this himself in the round table. It is quite possible that Mr. Romano's tipper saw the roster (or part of it) during this very early stage, or perhaps got ahold of documents to that effect. Keep in mind, Sal Romano updated his predictions based on that same tipper right before E3 2014: he named the Mii Fighter specifically! That's pretty impressive, to say nothing of the rest of the correct guesses!
 

GokaiPlatinum

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
6
3DS FC
0903-3829-8484
I guess as long as Sugimoris designs contained all the key poses it was all he needed. His creativity is clearly running wild with some characters just as it always has. Greninja is a good example.
 

Oniric Spriter

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
921
My goodness, this guy is a genius, so he didn't even knew Greninja was going to be the most popular starter this gen yet he chosed him and made a completely original moveset in a night with only the Sugimori artwork and concept designs.

This. Dude. Is. Awesome.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
That explains why he uses Aqua Jet as recovery, a move Greninja can't learn in X and Y
 

monkokaio

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
39
NNID
monkokaio
3DS FC
4468-1090-0122
That's really dope. Although I'm not too surprised to see him come up with a moveset in one night. To be honest, I make up movesets for characters in my head all the time. That being said, I usually know what the character can do before I come up with it. Still pretty incredible and it's so cool to hear about this.
 

Hokori

Great King of Evil
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
4,553
Location
The Valley
Noice, Sakurai, NOIIIIICE

Really, looking at Greninja's design and the moveset that was developed for it, I could see Greninja fighting like that in the TV series, give or take a few moves (haven't watched any of the Pokemon X/Y series so I don't know if Greninja was made an appearance in the show or not). Regardless, I'm not too surprised. The man is a wizard.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

Holy Maiden Warrior
Premium
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
8,973
Location
Marvel Land ~ Eternally Slumbering
NNID
IndyGo98
3DS FC
2793-0906-0731
Switch FC
SW-7670-7999-3483
Holla holla, this guy wouldn't have gone higher with that damn respect I have for him but right now it just went off the roof. Of course some aren't too impressed but this is all kinds of neat and it shows in the game.
 

Maripu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
42
My goodness, this guy is a genius, so he didn't even knew Greninja was going to be the most popular starter this gen yet he chosed him and made a completely original moveset in a night with only the Sugimori artwork and concept designs.

This. Dude. Is. Awesome.
I think he is a great game designer but I think you are not giving enough credit to those he consulted with. I truly doubt that the decision to include Greninja was a unilateral one.
 

Jaguar360

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
1,863
Location
NJ
NNID
Jaguar360
3DS FC
0516-7348-2137
Just think...if Sakurai saw Greninja post-X/Y, we may not have gotten <---Water Swords!
Thank you based Sakurai. You made Smash Bros 4 a blast without me even playing it.
I hope that I can meet Sakurai some day because he is just such an incredible and dedicated video game designer. I hope that I can reach close to his level.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Because the move he uses isn't Aqua Jet but instead Waterfall, a move he can learn.
Comparing to Squirtle's Waterfall, I highly doubt it's that, besides, Waterfall is a physical move and what Greninja-- oh yeah, forgot Aqua Jet is physical too, I guess it's Water Pulse then
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,967
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
This made me like Greninja a whole lot more!
 

GokaiPlatinum

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
6
3DS FC
0903-3829-8484
I do sorta think it's a shame that he doesn't have more moves he actually has. It always turns out cool when they find creative ways to use a Pokemons real moveset.
 

Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
2,570
Location
Akron, OH
3DS FC
3540-0120-0225
I do sorta think it's a shame that he doesn't have more moves he actually has. It always turns out cool when they find creative ways to use a Pokemons real moveset.
The Mat Block + Night Slash Final Smash is pretty creative, I think! Love it.
 

SDCBJR3

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
23
I don't agree with some things Sakurai has done or said in the past, but this really impressed me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom