Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[MargnetMan23]

Don't know if it's bias speaking, but there isn't ONE post Gen1 pokemon that I'd love to see as a playable character in SSB.
The closest one is Newtwo.

Also, question. I've never been exposed to alternate forms of Pokemon... but are these alternate forms numbered differently?
Or can we expect Newtwo to be #150?

That's because all of the good gen 2-6 pokemon aren't popular XD

-insert rant here-

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Wow.... chill out...

I don't expect this change of topic to last long before people start hate-quoting, but...

Retro stages, what would yall like to see? And no, they don't HAVE to come with characters attatched.


I'd really like Extcitebike, Waverace, Urban Champion, Nazo no Murasame, StarTropics, Hoogan's Alley, and Balloon Fight stages.

Clu Clu Land.

 

[BKupa666]

Habanero beat me to it, but yes, just by virtue of this game having the longest development time before its formal unveil, it should be quite far along, content-wise, with only the 3DS potentially gumming up the works.

 

[Silverjay323]

Don't know if it's bias speaking, but there isn't ONE post Gen1 pokemon that I'd love to see as a playable character in SSB.
The closest one is Newtwo.

Also, question. I've never been exposed to alternate forms of Pokemon... but are these alternate forms numbered differently?
Or can we expect Newtwo to be #150?

It's probably still 150. Form changes usual don't get their own Pokedex entries. Ex. Giratina, Deoxys, Landorus

 

[kingmario92]

...So, can we expect Genesect & Mewtwo in SSB4?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It's probably still 150. Form changes usual don't get their own Pokedex entries. Ex. Giratina, Deoxys, Landorus

I never got why he's 150 and Mew is 151??? Obviously Mewtwo was born after Mew.

...So, can we expect Genesect & Mewtwo in SSB4?
View attachment 1762

 

[FlareHabanero]

Habanero beat me to it, but yes, just by virtue of this game having the longest development time before its formal unveil, it should be quite far along, content-wise, with only the 3DS potentially gumming up the works.

Also, because the games were unveiled with more development under it's belt, there is not going to be a news drought like there was with Brawl. You see what I mean when we already have
our equivalent of the Dojo already available. It also probably helps that we have a development team more experienced with fighting games, and there isn't an equivalent of SSE to drain away development time.

 

[Arcanir]

I don't think he'll favor one either, but it's just the fact that he doesn't have to pick favorites with this generation that makes me think Sylveon has a shot at something. Not to mention Sylveon is the big fairy type and the big representation of what the type is supposed to be, it's the first known Fairy type and is probably going to be some kind of mascot for future years as it is very cute and Japan likes cute things. Regardless, the typing isn't all Sylveon has, there's the easier use of extra appendages with its bows and more. As for the others, maybe bringing out the others for a huge elemental beam final smash?

Potentially yes, it is popular, marketed and a solo act and can be worked in as such, but still it's a part of a set, all of which equally as popular as their other counterparts. Plus, Espeon and Umbreon/Glaceon and Leafeon were introduced as a dual and they could've worked potentially in Melee/Brawl as such but they were overlooked as well. Sylveon's solo act can be the tipping scale for finally getting an Eeveelution in but considering past trends it may not be enough.

 

[Silverjay323]

I never got why he's 150 and Mew is 151??? Obviously Mewtwo was born after Mew.

Maybe due to the fact that Mew was not properly "discovered" until after the events with team rocket and Mewtwo. That being said, would Mewtwo's new form even be a 6th gen rep since its pokedex number is still 150, a first gen pokemon? Keep in mind a pokemon has never gotten a form change between generations until now.

 

[mimgrim]

Potentially yes, it is popular, marketed and a solo act and can be worked in as such, but still it's a part of a set, all of which equally as popular as their other counterparts. Plus, Espeon and Umbreon/Glaceon and Leafeon were introduced as a dual and they could've worked potentially in Melee/Brawl as such but they were overlooked as well. Sylveon's solo act can be the tipping scale for finally getting an Eeveelution in but considering past trends it may not be enough.

Or we could jsut get Eevee instead. :/

 

[BKupa666]

Also, because the games were unveiled with more development under it's belt, there is not going to be a news drought like there was with Brawl. You see what I mean when we already have
our equivalent of the Dojo already available. It also probably helps that we have a development team more experienced with fighting games, and there isn't an equivalent of SSE to drain away development time.

This had crossed my mind previously, just specifically in regard to the characters. Because there will be more of them to reveal this time, and because the game is as far along as it is, there shouldn't be any of the multi-month pre-Brawl information droughts, barring delays.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Just keep in mind that we're still not going to learn every single detail right off the bat. Everything is going to be scheduled so we will have to wait a certain period of time for new details to emerge, mainly so with a sense of consistency you're neither overwhelmed by too much information or suffering from too little information.

Presuming we should go with when Olimar was revealed, we can use that update to anticipate similar major updates like that in the middle of every month, sometime between the 11th and 13th.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Or we could jsut get Eevee instead. :/

Well if Eevee's popularity wasn't enough to give much mention in the past games I would believe one would be a bit overly optimistic to expect things to be different in this one.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

He started the development 1 or whatever days/mouths just when he finished the new kid Icarus game for the 3ds

...So, can we expect Genesect & Mewtwo in SSB4?
View attachment 1762

Yes as a matter of fact they are rivals to each other according to the movie and they're parshally brothers since they are both mutant pokemon

 

[FlareHabanero]

He started the development 1 or whatever days/mouths just when he finished the new kid Icarus game for the 3ds

Late February, technically.

 

[Opossum]

My roster......is mud

I liked your roster. Like, a lot. Although, you left off Little Mac, which is kind of a no-no by me. Any reason for that?

 

[TheCreator]

I liked your roster. Like, a lot. Although, you left off Little Mac, which is kind of a no-no by me. Any reason for that?

****, I just forgot him. He should have been on there. But thanks dude

 

[Opossum]

****, I just forgot him. He should have been on there. But thanks dude

I thought so, seeing your signature. But yeah, I really liked the roster.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Maybe due to the fact that Mew was not properly "discovered" until after the events with team rocket and Mewtwo. That being said, would Mewtwo's new form even be a 6th gen rep since its pokedex number is still 150, a first gen pokemon? Keep in mind a pokemon has never gotten a form change between generations until now.

No, he's not a gen 6 rep because he'd still be Mewtwo in the Pokedex. He's not an evolution so technically it's still Mewtwo. All though he's powered up he'd still sort of be a veteran.

 

[Deleted member]

That seems incredibly biased, not to mention Galacta Knight is one of his own characters, I'm sure he'd know how to make him differently than that of Meta Knight. Sakurai isn't stupid, I'm sure he's capable of such a task, especially when all the characters of this game are being redesigned to be non-clones of each other.

Wut?

Galacta Knight isn't one of Sakurai's characters.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Wut?

Galacta Knight isn't one of Sakurai's characters.

He created kirby didn't he? So how is he not Sakurai's character? XD

 

[KingofPhantoms]

He created kirby didn't he? So how is he not Sakurai's character? XD

Because he was not working with HAL at the time they were making Kirby Superstar Ultra.

 

[FlareHabanero]

He created kirby didn't he? So how is he not Sakurai's character? XD

Sakurai wasn't involved with the Kirby series since Kirby's Air Ride in 2004. Kirby Super Star Ultra was released in 2008. Rub your brain cells together.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm not sure that I like to call Mewtwo a Gen 6 rep because I don't think Pokemon will be truly given characters on a Generation by Generation basis. It should just be who is popular and who is relevant to what Game Freak has going on for the series at the moment.

If a Pokemon is chosen by looking into the movies, like Lucario was, it will basically be between Genesect and Mewtwo. My money is on Mewtwo based on his popularity combined with this. The only way I see Genesect and not Mewtwo is if Sakurai decides that Mewtwo had his chance and wants to incorporate new faces into the series.

Also, to spark conversation (i'm really hoping I don't start arguments with this, but here we go), there are several arguments based on the fact that recency only gets a character noticed, blah blah blah etc... But when you really look at Brawl's roster, and think about it, old characters from particular series may not have much of a chance if they have nothing to merit their inclusion. While we have Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B, and the retros, they are in under specific criteria. We have never seen a random older character from an established series, unless we are referring to what I refer to as "Smash Mascots", such as Marth for Fire Emblem. Here are some examples and some partial reasoning imo...

Skull Kid- Popular, and from a popular Nintendo Title. However, at the current moment, there is absolutely nothing to merit his inclusion. He is not currently important to Zelda's plot, and would be a very random addition. What may boost his chances, however, would be a Majora's Mask remake.

Lyn- Very popular. Some regard her as the face/ beginning of Western Fire Emblem. However, isn't Ike the "Western Lord"? Lyn has not appeared in a starring role, or at least a role that has her stand out from the rest of the cast. This goes for several other Fire Emblem lords, like Hector, Ephraim, Sigurd, and unfortunately Roy (however, Roy has the advantage of already appearing in Smash Bros., time will tell if this will bring him back). Without some sort of focus on Lyn (or the other lords), or a remake of the games that these lords came from, I personally find it hard to believe that Sakurai would choose one of them over another in the same situation. However, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem may change this, but so far, Chrom has appeared in recent advertisements. Time will tell with this as well.

These are the first two thoughts i've been able to type out (my thought process just kind of spills out sometimes). However, my point still stands. I'm not trying to say that only recent characters get in. I'd probably even argue against that. I'm just saying that we haven't seen an older character without an important recent appearance get in from an established series, and i'm not entirely convinced we will either.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that while I am going to assume it will be on a monthly basis, my excitement for the character reveals makes me hope we get one sooner than we expect. However I must force myself to realize that my excitement does not mean we will get anything at a certain time. I just want a newcomer...

 

[MargnetMan23]

Sakurai wasn't involved with the Kirby series since Kirby's Air Ride in 2004. Kirby Super Star Ultra was released in 2008. Rub your brain cells together.

So therefore I am not using my brain cells correctly if I didn't know that, thanks dude that's really reassuring. Either way ok fine maybe not XD

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm not sure that I like to call Mewtwo a Gen 6 rep because I don't think Pokemon will be truly given characters on a Generation by Generation basis. It should just be who is popular and who is relevant to what Game Freak has going on for the series at the moment.

If a Pokemon is chosen by looking into the movies, like Lucario was, it will basically be between Genesect and Mewtwo. My money is on Mewtwo based on his popularity combined with this. The only way I see Genesect and not Mewtwo is if Sakurai decides that Mewtwo had his chance and wants to incorporate new faces into the series.

Also, to spark conversation (i'm really hoping I don't start arguments with this, but here we go), there are several arguments based on the fact that recency only gets a character noticed, blah blah blah etc... But when you really look at Brawl's roster, and think about it, old characters from particular series may not have much of a chance if they have nothing to merit their inclusion. While we have Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B, and the retros, they are in under specific criteria. We have never seen a random older character from an established series, unless we are referring to what I refer to as "Smash Mascots", such as Marth for Fire Emblem. Here are some examples and some partial reasoning imo...

Skull Kid- Popular, and from a popular Nintendo Title. However, at the current moment, there is absolutely nothing to merit his inclusion. He is not currently important to Zelda's plot, and would be a very random addition. What may boost his chances, however, would be a Majora's Mask remake.

Lyn- Very popular. Some regard her as the face/ beginning of Western Fire Emblem. However, isn't Ike the "Western Lord"? Lyn has not appeared in a starring role, or at least a role that has her stand out from the rest of the cast. This goes for several other Fire Emblem lords, like Hector, Ephraim, Sigurd, and unfortunately Roy (however, Roy has the advantage of already appearing in Smash Bros., time will tell if this will bring him back). Without some sort of focus on Lyn (or the other lords), or a remake of the games that these lords came from, I personally find it hard to believe that Sakurai would choose one of them over another in the same situation. However, Shin Megain Tensei X Fire Emblem may change this, but so far, Chrom has appeared in recent advertisements. Time will tell with this as well.

These are the first two thoughts i've been able to type out (my thought process just kind of spills out sometimes). However, my point still stands. I'm not trying to say that only recent characters get in. I'd probably even argue against that. I'm just saying that we haven't seen an older character without an important recent appearance get in from an established series, and i'm not entirely convinced we will either.

Lyn appeared as DLC in Awakening, but then again so did all of the other Fire Emblem reps. And how come we can't have Mewtwo AND Genesect, I know it'd mean Lucario leaving, but we shouldn't have a roster of all veteran Pokemon. Genesect is insanely popular right now and fits the description that Sakurai gave on adding new Pokemon.

Also if you want to talk about recency look up Divine Deity on SmashBoards.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

So therefore I am not using my brain cells correctly if I didn't know that, thanks dude that's really reassuring. Either way ok fine maybe not XD

That or your brain cells were damaged.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Lyn appeared as DLC in Awakening, but then again so did all of the other Fire Emblem reps. And how come we can't have Mewtwo AND Genesect, I know it'd mean Lucario leaving, but we shouldn't have a roster of all veteran Pokemon. Genesect is insanely popular right now and fits the description that Sakurai gave on adding new Pokemon.

Also if you want to talk about recency look up Divine Deity on SmashBoards.

I understand Lyn and the other lords appeared as DLC. But I'm referring to starring roles that would make one stand out from the rest of the pack at the time of Smash 4's roster choosing. Nothing really makes Lyn, or any other lord besides Chrom and Roy stand out. Chrom because he is the latest protagonist, and Roy because of his appearance in Smash already. (Not saying Chrom is only going to get in because of recentness, but it would definitely get him noticed.)

Genesect I could see if he were popular at the time of the roster getting decided. However, Mewtwo has maintained his popular and rank as the number 1 wanted Pokemon for Smash. However, as you said, it is possible that we get both of them.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Bringing up an argument of mine from a while back.

Sakurai doesn't care about "properly" representing specific generations of Pokemon as playable characters. He just rolls with the most significant ones.
Whatever he feels doesn't work as playable at the moment, is sent to Pokeball item, where he can freely represent ANY pokemon from ANY generation.

Since he's not tournament-biased, like a lot of us are, he has no problem of Pokeball-izing Pokemon for the heck of representation. So I wouldn't expect to suddenly see a Gen 3 pokemon become playable out of nowhere, for example.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I understand Lyn and the other lords appeared as DLC. But I'm referring to starring roles that would make one stand out from the rest of the pack at the time of Smash 4's roster choosing. Nothing really makes Lyn, or any other lord besides Chrom and Roy stand out. Chrom because he is the latest protagonist, and Roy because of his appearance in Smash already. (Not saying Chrom is only going to get in because of recentness, but it would definitely get him noticed.)

Genesect I could see if he were popular at the time of the roster getting decided. However, Mewtwo has maintained his popular and rank as the number 1 wanted Pokemon for Smash. However, as you said, it is possible that we get both of them.

Sakurai checks with the Pokemon company, It's safe to assume they would have told him or given him some knowledge of Genesect's planned role in "Mewtwo's Awakening".

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think the one flaw to my argument is the Pokemon Trainer. However, there are plenty of reasons for him to be included. The fact that the Pokemon he uses are super iconic, and introduces a neat gimmick are pretty big positives if you ask me. Other than that, I can't really think of another oddball character like i'm pointing out.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I think the one flaw to my argument is the Pokemon Trainer. However, there are plenty of reasons for him to be included. The fact that the Pokemon he uses are super iconic, and introduces a neat gimmick are pretty big positives if you ask me. Other than that, I can't really think of another oddball character like i'm pointing out.

Pokemon Trainer (in this case Red) is the Pokemon equivalent to MARTH for Fire Emblem. Just because Pikachu is the face of Pokemon (as a trans-media franchise) shouldn't substract from the fact that PT and his starters kicked off the whole series.

 

[Silverjay323]

I'm not sure that I like to call Mewtwo a Gen 6 rep because I don't think Pokemon will be truly given characters on a Generation by Generation basis. It should just be who is popular and who is relevant to what Game Freak has going on for the series at the moment.

If a Pokemon is chosen by looking into the movies, like Lucario was, it will basically be between Genesect and Mewtwo. My money is on Mewtwo based on his popularity combined with this. The only way I see Genesect and not Mewtwo is if Sakurai decides that Mewtwo had his chance and wants to incorporate new faces into the series.

Also, to spark conversation (i'm really hoping I don't start arguments with this, but here we go), there are several arguments based on the fact that recency only gets a character noticed, blah blah blah etc... But when you really look at Brawl's roster, and think about it, old characters from particular series may not have much of a chance if they have nothing to merit their inclusion. While we have Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B, and the retros, they are in under specific criteria. We have never seen a random older character from an established series, unless we are referring to what I refer to as "Smash Mascots", such as Marth for Fire Emblem. Here are some examples and some partial reasoning imo...

Skull Kid- Popular, and from a popular Nintendo Title. However, at the current moment, there is absolutely nothing to merit his inclusion. He is not currently important to Zelda's plot, and would be a very random addition. What may boost his chances, however, would be a Majora's Mask remake.

Lyn- Very popular. Some regard her as the face/ beginning of Western Fire Emblem. However, isn't Ike the "Western Lord"? Lyn has not appeared in a starring role, or at least a role that has her stand out from the rest of the cast. This goes for several other Fire Emblem lords, like Hector, Ephraim, Sigurd, and unfortunately Roy (however, Roy has the advantage of already appearing in Smash Bros., time will tell if this will bring him back). Without some sort of focus on Lyn (or the other lords), or a remake of the games that these lords came from, I personally find it hard to believe that Sakurai would choose one of them over another in the same situation. However, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem may change this, but so far, Chrom has appeared in recent advertisements. Time will tell with this as well.

These are the first two thoughts i've been able to type out (my thought process just kind of spills out sometimes). However, my point still stands. I'm not trying to say that only recent characters get in. I'd probably even argue against that. I'm just saying that we haven't seen an older character without an important recent appearance get in from an established series, and i'm not entirely convinced we will either.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that while I am going to assume it will be on a monthly basis, my excitement for the character reveals makes me hope we get one sooner than we expect. However I must force myself to realize that my excitement does not mean we will get anything at a certain time. I just want a newcomer...

Your point really only applies to Pokemon and Fire Emblem right? Those are two franchises that are always changing and receiving new characters, whereas other franchises tend to stick with familiar mascots, aside from some temporary villains (Skull Kid). Recency really is only a factor when a multitude different characters could be put into consideration. Franchises with everlasting mascots (Mario, StarFox, Mother) don't really need to go through this process.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

The problem with Skull Kid is he's a one-off, side character.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Well, you couldn't get Zubat in Black/White, and there's no confirmation for X/Y, I'm just saying it's the first, but it definitely won't be the last. By the way, while not obtainable in those games, it was obtainable in FireRed/LeafGreen, and actually, it would have been in the Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald titles if not for Colosseum, and Game Freak not wanting fans to breed Eevees before the release of FireRed/LeafGreen, which is why your Umbreon and Espeon are both male.

Technically, Golbat is obtainable in Black/White in Route 13 and the Giant Chasm. Breeding is available in those games, so of course you can get Zubat without having to trade. So yeah, Zubat is available in more games. Not that I'm treating this as an argument for why Zubat should get in over Eevee or anything, but I'm saying the statement of saying Eevee is the most recurrent Pokemon is a false one. Devil's advocate, if you will.

Also, on another note, why is Genesect held in such regard, exactly? Being an event-legendary to have starred in a movie isn't exactly unique, considering plenty of Pokemon have done that generations before, Deoxys and Darkrai being more similar to Genesect in being the immensely popular-for-a-while humanoid legendaries of their generations. I honestly don't see why Genesect is considered as a playable character for Smash Bros. when it will, without a hint of doubt, no longer be popular when Generation 6 is in the middle of its run. At that point, the only thing it'd have over Deoxys and Darkrai is recency, and we all know how shallow a reason that is to include a Pokemon character.

 

[CalumG]

How's this for a Pokey Mans roster: Pikachu and Pokemon Trainer as 'protagonists', Meowth and Mewtwo as 'villain-esque' Pokemon (by Anime association) and *insert Pokemon of the week here* as the fifth rep.

Come at me Jiggly bros, Meowth has got it going on.

 

[kikaru]

How's this for a Pokey Mans roster: Pikachu and Pokemon Trainer as 'protagonists', Meowth and Mewtwo as 'villain-esque' Pokemon (by Anime association) and *insert Pokemon of the week here* as the fifth rep.

Come at me Jiggly bros, Meowth has got it going on.

Pretty sure Stacy's mom is the only one who's got it going on.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It

Your point really only applies to Pokemon and Fire Emblem right? Those are two franchises that are always changing and receiving new characters, whereas other franchises tend to stick with familiar mascots, aside from some temporary villains (Skull Kid). Recency really is only a factor when a multitude different characters could be put into consideration. Franchises with everlasting mascots (Mario, StarFox, Mother) don't really need to go through this process.

pretty much applies to everybody. Some random Mario or Zelda character such as Skull Kid would incredibly random and nothing to merit his inclusion. However, you are right. It mainly coinsides with Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It
pretty much applies to everybody. Some random Mario or Zelda character such as Skull Kid would incredibly random and nothing to merit his inclusion. However, you are right. It mainly coinsides with Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

I guess Skull Kid would be similar to Geno, but not so much because he had a bigger role and Majora's Mask was more popular than Super Mario RPG. But, none the less it's not much better of a choice.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Before I knock off, I have a little thing to show you. Since this hasn't been discussed, I'd like to bring this up...

http://www.examiner.com/article/sup...clusion-of-fighting-game-characters-discussed

Looks like Sakurai dropped the bomb on actual fighting game characters making it into Smash Bros, so those of you who have Tekken characters in your want list/signatures...I highly recommend removing them, as the chances just got shot down. Also, start thinking unique, as it looks like that's what it's all about right now.