Rosalina moveset speculation

[KingofPhantoms]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's her jab combo. The final hits must've dealt as much knockback as it did because Mario and Luigi had already taken a fair amount of damage beforehand.


I'm not certain what the Starbit attack is, but I'm near certain it's a Special attack.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Some people might think otherwise, but it could be possible that Rosalina may be Smash 4's Meta Knight.

Although she may be a large target, Rosalina could easily be a big nightmare for anyone who lacks projectiles or long range attacks (such as Captain Falcon and Donkey Kong), especially since the Luma may have to be taken care of first. And even if the fighter has any projectiles, the Star Cursor Barrier may easily redirect the projectiles, rendering them useless against her.

Another note is that the Luma could make it exceedingly difficult for anyone to grab Rosalina, which could mean that chain grabs are rendered impossible to perform against her; this could potentially mean that the Ice Climbers can't do anything with their grab game against Rosalina.

Simply put, if Rosalina's fighting potential is quite good, she might have very little, if any disadvantageous matchups. Of course, Kirby could potentially be evenly matched against Rosalina if he manages to copy her abilities.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've been thinking that as well. It's very well possible that she could end up being overpowered, but we still don't know her full moveset yet or all of her attributes as of yet, and with Sakurai putting more effort into balancing, I'm thinking that the possibility of her being the new Meta Knight is rather low.

 

[Toon Link: The Smasher]

the one where she kicks Pit and a tiny galazy appear is her up special. she is coming from an angle and so is pit which is why pit doesnt go directly up. no ones air down special and air up special is the same. only their left and right specials are. and todays picture, sakurai says "good thing they are infinite" talking about the luma. which means you can call one up anytime in battle. but i wonder if you call on one but you already have one out, would your original stay or disappear and you keep the new one?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I've been thinking that as well. It's very well possible that she could end up being overpowered, but we still don't know her full moveset yet or all of her attributes as of yet, and with Sakurai putting more effort into balancing, I'm thinking that the possibility of her being the new Meta Knight is rather low.

Perhaps, but considering the way that her known moveset operates, just trying to get close to Rosalina can prove to be very tough. The Luma is like a projectile that Rosalina can control at will, and that can easily drive close range fighters like Captain Falcon bonkers.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Perhaps, but considering the way that her known moveset operates, just trying to get close to Rosalina can prove to be very tough. The Luma is like a projectile that Rosalina can control at will, and that can easily drive close range fighters like Captain Falcon bonkers.

Indeed. I still think some characters will have some advantages over her or have at least some methods to deal with the Luma, though for now I suppose all we can do is wait and see how things turn out.

 

[Niko Mar]

Indeed. I still think some characters will have some advantages over her or have at least some methods to deal with the Luma, though for now I suppose all we can do is wait and see how things turn out.

I was thinking maybe the Luma is easy to destroy. Her summoning ability seems to take a while so that could be her downfall.

 

[Toon Link: The Smasher]

oh what if different colored lumas have different health? and it takes a different amount of hits to kill one?

 

[extremechiton]

I don't like the idea of the inconsistency. For olimar it was fine cuz you had 6 pikmin out at once and were respawned rather quickly. The luma seems to take a while to summon and would totally be disadvantageous if you spawned a weak luma at the moment an enemy attacks and that luma dies instantly.

Untill sakurai explains some more, I think the colors are purely cosmetic.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

How quickly the new Luma gets spawned could be influenced by whether or not Rosalina is in the air.

 

[Big-Cat]

Although she may be a large target, Rosalina could easily be a big nightmare for anyone who lacks projectiles or long range attacks (such as Captain Falcon and Donkey Kong), especially since the Luma may have to be taken care of first. And even if the fighter has any projectiles, the Star Cursor Barrier may easily redirect the projectiles, rendering them useless against her.

That's the thing with puppeteer characters. If played smartly, they can be a wall when used properly with their partner. That being said, Rosalina may be prone to whiff punishing. The Star Cursor has a long animation and if she were to whiff that, she'd be wide open for an attack. We also don't know how well she deals with pressure and then there's the question of how safe/unsafe her attacks are.

 

[Vickyboi]

Even shines are bad at reflecting projectiles and they are JCable in Melee and PM.
Rosalinas 'Barrier' could probably just be baited by projectile spamming and then get punished, unless it is more like Zeldas Neutral B, then it might be harder to punish.

 

[SmasherCat]

Getting baited would also depend on if you can control the luma while using the barrier. What if you could use the move and then switch to the luma? Just because the trailer doesn't do it doesn't mean it's impossible.

And to throw in an extra variable (kinda broad), any kind of technique abusing the new physics in the game could add new possibilities, which is too general to be realistic, but it's something to think about.

 

[Vickyboi]

Good point!
If you could do attacks with Luma while using the Barrier, well, that would be pretty good!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Good point!
If you could do attacks with Luma while using the Barrier, well, that would be pretty good!

If Rosalina is able to hold her barrier, much like with Fox's Reflector, however, then the projectile spammer may have to change attack plans. Of course, this only really applies to 1-on-1 matchups.

 

[Vickyboi]

Depending on if you can approach while shooting the barrier could be close to unusable unless items are in play.
What if Zeldas neutral B redirected the projectiles to go over her?
If the barrier can be ended earlier than we've seen in the trailer it wouldn't be as punishable.
(Though I'm basing my knowledge from Melee and PM, we still don't know runspeed and stuff like that, so it could very well be safe.)

 

[Excellence]

I think in many ways, Rosalina & Luma are going to play more like Olimar and Pikmin than the Ice Climbers. What I see is that Rosalina has all the same hitboxes without Luma as she does with him. When she summons Luma, he appears (in these videos) to attack in the opposite direction as Rosalina for certain attacks and just adds an additional hitbox when she does other attacks. Here is what I mean with examples. In regards to her possible Down Special (re-directing move), it does not appear that she needs Luma and he does not change anything about the attack. In regards to her apparent Jab Combo (the move hitting Mario and Luigi), it appears as though there is one hitbox for Rosalina and a separate one for Luma. If Luma were not there, Rosalina would still have her own hitbox but not Luma's additional Hitbox. I think the same goes for the double whirl on the Downsmash (the move similar to Zelda's Dsmash). I think if only Rosalina were present, you might get one whirl. If Luma is present, you'll get two. In some cases, such as Upsmash (the launcher move) and side special where Luma jumps out at you, I think these attacks require Luma and will not work without him; similar to the way Olimar's USmash and SideB fail without Pikmin in Brawl.

That being said, I do not think that Rosalina and Luma can be controlled in a disjointed manner like the Ice Climbers. I think in many ways this is better. One reason being that it keeps the Ice Climbers style more unique without overshadowing it with a clearly better alternative.

I'm going to imagine that Rosalina and Luma will be around Zero Suit Samus' weight just because so far, the Smash Bros. series has done a consistent job at relating weight to apparent density with only a few exceptions. She also looks a bit floaty. If the game speed is what it appears: faster than Brawl, slower than Melee, this could put her at a disadvanage to comboing at early percentages and KOing early on.

I'm going to agree with everyone else when they talk about her hammering characters without a good projectile and no safe approaches. I think a lot of how good she is going to be will depend on other mechanics: Her Air Dodge speed, her Spot Dodge and Her Roll. She clearly has the tools to attack and get out of simple situations but to get out of others, she needs basic tools that work really well.

 

[Rose alumna]

FS: Gravity is reversed, everyone falls of the top of the screen and dies.

I don't think so it might be fs is when she gets the smash ball this big galaxy will appear and people will get sucked in then it will EXPLODE XD

 

[SmasherCat]

Man, wall of text much?

A lot of those questions can't be answered yet.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I know that we haven't seen all of Rosalina's attacks, but I kind of wonder if her forward tilt attack may have her sending Star Bits at opponents. It might make up for her lack of projectile attacks without the Luma partner.

 

[SmasherCat]

In that case, wouldn't they both shoot star bits? That could be useful for doing extra damage.

 

[extremechiton]

hmmm.... we havnt seen rosalina when luma was shooting star bits. maybe sakurai has something to hide.

 

[SmasherCat]

On second thought, that can't be. When luma uses the star bits on villager, it's one side special away from Rosalina. If she were to shoot them too, we would've seen them from that distance.

 

[No Control]

Are we all pretty much agreed on:

Neutral B: Luma Summon
Side B: Project Luma
Up B: Launch Star
Down B: Pull Star

 

[SmasherCat]

That seems right. Disagreed on:

Up Tilt
Star Bit Shot
Other tilts?
We haven't seen the bair, and we know all the smashes.

 

[XTheElegantShadowX]

So, am I the only one expecting Rosalina's Edge-Guarding game to be absolutely terrifying at higher levels of play?

That's the thing with puppeteer characters. If played smartly, they can be a wall when used properly with their partner. That being said, Rosalina may be prone to whiff punishing. The Star Cursor has a long animation and if she were to whiff that, she'd be wide open for an attack. We also don't know how well she deals with pressure and then there's the question of how safe/unsafe her attacks are.

If Rosalina plays anything like Carl Clover from Blazblue in that her puppet (Luma) can wall the opponent and control air and ground space without putting her at risk... she'll end up being quite the challenging foe for even characters WITH projectiles, However, if she does carry some of the flaws most Puppeteer characters have (Low/Bad defenses, unsafe Normals, strange/slow movement options, or is just plain terrible without her companion near by), she could possibly be one the more unique characters is Smash, without being too over or underwhelming.

 

[extremechiton]

So then whats the warp field?

 

[SmasherCat]

I think it will depend on the skill of the person using her. Sure, it's possible there could be flaws in her physics or attacks, kinda like zelda. But an expert player can get around that.

We're all pretty experienced here, so we can all say this from experience. So far the edgeguarding game looks pretty good, but we can't tell until we sort all this out...

So then whats the warp field?

That's the pull star.

 

[extremechiton]

so then i guess summon luma works when a luma is present and when a luma is not present
present: calls luma back to rosalina
not present: summons a new luma.
ahh... got it.

 

[SmasherCat]

Yep, it's always the same move. The summon animation might be longer when it's not present though.

 

[Zeallyx]

So she basically can't get grabbed (unless the luma's aren't as easily summoned/used as the video implies), awesome.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So she basically can't get grabbed (unless the luma's aren't as easily summoned/used as the video implies), awesome.

It does depend on how quickly the fighter who grabs Rosalina throws her. Because the Luma could easily mess things up, pummeling Rosalina before throwing her could be a mistake.

 

[extremechiton]

i generally dont pummel.

 

[SmasherCat]

Neither do I, it's better to skip the low damage and keep your opponent confused.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Still, if your opponent's damage is high, getting a few pummels in before throwing could help make a difference. But I guess it all depends on the fighter.

 

[extremechiton]

i kinda wish kirby's up throw had a little more ko power.

 

[SmasherCat]

Yeah, Kirby's up throw is better for spacing than killing. Front and back are basically the same though (and great for combos) and down chains nicely into itself.

OT: Rosalina's grabs have a lot of combo potential. Maybe not up, but front and back do. I wonder what the down throw will be?

 

[Jão]

Hey guys, I just wanted to call attention to a point. I don't know if anyone notice this... Despite the gif that possibly shows that the Cursor Field is indeed his down B, I still believe it to be her neutral B. That's because as we all know, the neutral B it has to be a movement that Kirby can also use and I can not see him summoning a Luma. Or the summoning Luma movement is her down B since I'm pretty sure that up B and side B are the Launch Star and the "Luma Headbutt/Position thing". Or Lumas are summoned after some period of time and that animation is just a taunt...

Btw, I'm a brazilian player and I was very excited about this newcomer. =)

 

[Demon-oni]

Anyone in this thread speculating how good a character will be before they've even touched the controller is out of their minds, just saying. It's a new play style to smash people, but it's not unheard of. It has its strengths and weaknesses. Now it's just up to them to balance it out right.

Back to the thread at hand, I think what we're mostly missing would be her A tilts, back air, neutral air, FS, up/down throws, pummel, get up attack, and ledge attack. There's still quite a bit unknown about the Luma's moveset, considering we've seen so little (USmash, star bit attack, jab combo, quick dash, ect). I would like to point out one thing though. Some one mentioned that the Luma would mirror rosalina's move (the forward throw > luma usmash combo from trailer was a good example), but I don't know how correct that is. There are several points where the luma does nothing while Rosalina is in action. A simple example would be where she's charging a forward smash with the red luma behind her that proceeds to get knocked out. This alludes to either you have more control over luma than simple mirroring, much more like standard shadow characters, or that there is a way to desync their attacks. Just something I thought I'd point out.

@Jao It is possible, but the choppiness of the animation between the crouch and the cursor almost confirms it to be her down b, though I won't try to confirm without more evidence. I can understand your qualms with Kirby copying the Luma skill, but there are 2 answers to that. 1. Kirby will summon a Luma and will have a way to control it all it's own, making Kirby vs. Rosalina the most ridiculous match up in the world. 2. He gets some unique action with Luma, similar to how he handled the pikmin pluck from acquiring Olimar's ability in Brawl.

 

[Jão]

Yes, those are the moves we are missing at the moment. Probably the neutral air would be some spin attack similiar to the one she uses in Super Mario 3D World. But the bair... I have no idea. Btw, you are right... I completely forgot the ability of pluck and throw pikmins Kirby acquires when swallows Olimar. Considering her neutral b the summoning Luma move, I'd say that Kirby could just simple summon and throw it, disappearing after that. But I don't know why, it still bother me.

About the FSmash Rosalina uses against Bowser and Luma stands still, I think it's some kind of desynch. In the beginning of that scene, Luma is "falling" (like the end of some jump animation) and because of that it could not follow/mirror the movement Rosalina was doing.