Rosalina can no longer attack whilst being grabbed.

[icraq]

Hey, just played the Wii U version and one of the tips that showed up between loading screens informed me of this. So, yeah. It said something along the lines of "when rosalina is being grabbed luma will dance around frantically and cannot be controlled". You can still hit your opponent right after they throw you, though.

 

[Flapstick]

Cry.
Well one less thing people are gonna complain about. There's a good chance you'll still be able to dair after the throw or something.

 

[GameWatching]

Good.
She needs more nerfs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

A bit strange, considering that even without that nerf, fighters can still successfully throw Rosalina before the Luma has any chance to intervene.

 

[Warlock*G]

A bit strange, considering that even without that nerf, fighters can still successfully throw Rosalina before the Luma has any chance to intervene.

But now it's... PUMMEL TIME!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

But now it's... PUMMEL TIME!

Let's just be glad that chain throws are removed, because King Dedede would now completely maul Rosalina with multiple d-throws if it maintained Brawl's knockback.

 

[Warlock*G]

Let's just be glad that chain throws are removed, because King Dedede would now completely maul Rosalina with multiple d-throws if it maintained Brawl's knockback.

Shhh... don't give the kids any ideas or they'll cry for a physics change next.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

Sigh... oh well. This won't keep me up at night but I can't say I'm not disappointed. I could never really rely on it to begin with, so I'll forget about the way it was rather quick.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I fear that this will go even further though, as if the Luma can't save Rosalina if she's grabbed, then this may also mean that the Luma can't save Rosalina if she's dizzy or asleep anymore. Smash 3DS's tips clearly mention that the Luma can save Rosalina from such incidents, so we'd be getting false advice if that really is the case.

 

[icraq]

I fear that this will go even further though, as if the Luma can't save Rosalina if she's grabbed, then this may also mean that the Luma can't save Rosalina if she's dizzy or asleep anymore. Smash 3DS's tips clearly mention that the Luma can save Rosalina from such incidents, so we'd be getting false advice if that really is the case.

I didn't have the opportunity to test but I'm fairly certain Luma can still help Rosalina in shield break/free fall animation/hitstun oh and while getting up from being knocked down. I think that's all there were. The only one I remember noticing was getting up from the ground.

 

[Baskerville]

I think some of you are forgetting the part where Luma can still attack right after Rosalina is thrown...

 

[Warlock*G]

I think some of you are forgetting the part where Luma can still attack right after Rosalina is thrown...

This is why throwing Rosalina into Luma is golden.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Still, it just seems strange that the Luma would be nerfed even further in that it can't save Rosalina from grabs anymore. I mean even before that change, fighters could still throw Rosalina before the Luma has any chance to save her; that one online match between Rosalina and Falco proves this.

Anyway, I guess some people have had enough of seeing the Luma be like a security blanket for Rosalina, and the irony is that that's what makes Rosalina unique. Taking away the Luma's ability to save Rosalina from grabs pretty much messes up her uniqueness.

 

[Warlock*G]

Still, it just seems strange that the Luma would be nerfed even further in that it can't save Rosalina from grabs anymore. I mean even before that change, fighters could still throw Rosalina before the Luma has any chance to save her; that one online match between Rosalina and Falco proves this.

Anyway, I guess some people have had enough of seeing the Luma be like a security blanket for Rosalina, and the irony is that that's what makes Rosalina unique. Taking away the Luma's ability to save Rosalina from grabs pretty much messes up her uniqueness.

I would say that the most unique thing about her is that she can attack from two places at once... and that is not lost.

 

[GameWatching]

I would say that the most unique thing about her is that she can attack from two places at once... and that is not lost.

And that's pretty stupid considering Rosalina is already good without her Luma

 

[Baskerville]

This is why throwing Rosalina into Luma is golden.

That depends on where Luma is, and just the throws' properties. Some thows like Falcon's D-Throw don't even knock Luma away even though it's right in front of him.

 

[Warlock*G]

And that's pretty stupid considering Rosalina is already good without her Luma

I can't speak for whatever character you're using, but as a Falcon player, I found out yesterday just how vulnerable Rosalina is without Luma. The whole dynamic of the matchup changes when Luma is not around.

 

[icraq]

I think some of you are forgetting the part where Luma can still attack right after Rosalina is thrown...

still not a guaranteed hit and that doesn't save you from taking damage. luma only does like 5% dmg anyways after being thrown at best so meh.

 

[Shanoa]

I don't think this nerf is really necessary after Luma's respawn timer got nerfed. I thought they would still want you to take out Luma before you get in close and grab her.

Well, at least we got one thing that is good for Rosalina in the Wii U version. Gotta love them hair physics.

 

[GameWatching]

I can't speak for whatever character you're using, but as a Falcon player, I found out yesterday just how vulnerable Rosalina is without Luma. The whole dynamic of the matchup changes when Luma is not around.

I mostly use DK, her spacing game is mad good. maybe i'm not that good, but her nair just seems stupid to me

 

[icraq]

I mostly use DK, her spacing game is mad good. maybe i'm not that good, but her nair just seems stupid to me

a lot of people have troubles with her nair but it's definitely beatable, she's completely vulnerable from the front when it starts, and below her. im pretty sure DK can punish with a bair or whatever, probably even an ftilt or utilt.

edit: vulnerable in front when luma's not around i mean.

 

[Warlock*G]

I mostly use DK, her spacing game is mad good. maybe i'm not that good, but her nair just seems stupid to me

That nair lasts for a long time, granted. However, being a huge target such as DK certainly doesn't help in avoiding it.

 

[Shanoa]

That nair lasts for a long time, granted. However, being a huge target such as DK certainly doesn't help in avoiding it.

I think DK is a pretty bad matchup too. I don't main him, but my advice is to try down b to stun Luma and try killing Luma whenever the opportunity arises, and when Luma is gone you can try to punish Rosalina's weaker and multihit aerials with a nasty Neutral B or one of your smashes, just avoid trying to approach from above because she has many tools at her disposal for airbourne foes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And that's pretty stupid considering Rosalina is already good without her Luma

This heavily depends on her adversary. Rosalina isn't exactly able to approach safely without the Luma, so she'll often find herself having to stall until a new Luma appears.

 

[ChikoLad]

I think this way too fundamental a thing to change.

If something has been in the 3DS version's tips all this time, and now the Wii U version has the opposite, that's silly. Yes, the 3DS tip will likely be patched, but this shouldn't have been changed to begin with.

I'm not sure if many people know this, and maybe I've been messing up, but if you pummel/throw Rosalina, Luma can only do his F-Air. Before and after those, he can do whatever, but during those animations, only his F-Air would do anything. This was an easy way to avoid getting hit by Luma when you grabbed Rosalina. There was a definitive strategy to avoiding it (among other things, like certain throws hitting Luma with Rosalina, like Mario's Back Throw). So why they are removing Luma's ability to attack at all is beyond me.

Rosalina is literally the only character they are making fundamental changes to. Other characters getting nerfs is more fixing straight up glitches, like Wario's vectoring or Item Toss Cancel. Yet they are changing how Rosalina fundamentally plays.

I was alright with increasing Luma's respawn time. It's subtle, doesn't effect you if you are really skilled with Rosalina (which means getting good with her is rewarding), but also rewards players for being good at taking out Luma. This, however, is straight up changing a fundamental part of a character's design, and is completely unwarranted.

 

[HeroMystic]

Unfortunate, but frankly after playing against D3 as Mario in Brawl so much, this doesn't bother me.

If spaced correctly, a player could always grab Rosalina and throw/pummel her even without the nerf. I learned this as Mario, whom seems to be one of the better characters against her. So this is a minor inconvenience at worst.

 

[icraq]

Other characters getting nerfs is more fixing straight up glitches, like Wario's vectoring or Item Toss Cancel. Yet they are changing how Rosalina fundamentally plays.

there's actually word going around that those glitches were NOT removed, like rush canceling and such, along with hte item toss thing, apparently they're still in the game. if i had more time i certainly would've tested it, but that's something to chew on. i can't say one way or another.

just a prime example of things to come.

 

[ChikoLad]

there's actually word going around that those glitches were NOT removed, like rush canceling and such, along with hte item toss thing, apparently they're still in the game. if i had more time i certainly would've tested it, but that's something to chew on. i can't say one way or another.

just a prime example of things to come.

I've heard that at the very least, Wario's vectoring shenanigans are gone, and Greninja can no longer cancel his aerial landing lag with Shadow Sneak.

The only other non-glitch fixing nerf I've heard of besides Rosalina's changes, is that people in the Greninja boards have said that Greninja's Up Smash has more end lag or something like that. While I think that's unnecessary too (and honestly, I think him having the Shadow Sneak Cancel was fine as it wasn't broken and was actually quite situational in it's usefulness, and it made sense despite being an exploit - if I didn't know it was one, I'd assume it was a unique trait for him considering how Shadow Sneak works), it's nowhere near as fundamentally changing as removing Luma's ability to attack while Rosalina is grabbed. That's just literally removing one of her unique strengths.

We might as well remove Luma altogether if these are the sort of changes they are making. Or make Sonic slower or something, since his unique strength is that he's the fastest runner in the game and overall moves really fast.

 

[ConeZ]

I fear that this will go even further though, as if the Luma can't save Rosalina if she's grabbed, then this may also mean that the Luma can't save Rosalina if she's dizzy or asleep anymore. Smash 3DS's tips clearly mention that the Luma can save Rosalina from such incidents, so we'd be getting false advice if that really is the case.

But why should Luma be able to do that? I have to put in so much effort to shield pressure Rosalina and Luma, and when any other character is dizzy, they take a heavy punish, so why should Rosaluma be treated differently?
This is just me being uset at being KO'd in response to shield breaking a Rosaluma online bc I didn't know of this mechanic.

 

[Xavier :D]

Man, I am disappointed by this. I'm just going to hope that these nerfs don't go any further. Then again, I never really used this particular tactic. Nothing will stop me from maining this cosmic beauty though, even if she was low-tier ^-^

 

[xStJimmy]

But why should Luma be able to do that? I have to put in so much effort to shield pressure Rosalina and Luma, and when any other character is dizzy, they take a heavy punish, so why should Rosaluma be treated differently?
This is just me being uset at being KO'd in response to shield breaking a Rosaluma online bc I didn't know of this mechanic.

Then why should a Rosalina player lose 2 b attacks if he loses Luma, even if it takes a single punch to do it?

I'm ok with the nerf in spawning time, I even was asking for it being a Rosalina player, but I think this could go even futher and I'm not happy about it

 

[ChikoLad]

But why should Luma be able to do that? I have to put in so much effort to shield pressure Rosalina and Luma, and when any other character is dizzy, they take a heavy punish, so why should Rosaluma be treated differently?
This is just me being uset at being KO'd in response to shield breaking a Rosaluma online bc I didn't know of this mechanic.

You could literally apply the "why should X have Y" argument to any character and their unique strengths.

 

[ConeZ]

Then why should a Rosalina player lose 2 b attacks if he loses Luma, even if it takes a single punch to do it?

I'm ok with the nerf in spawning time, I even was asking for it being a Rosalina player, but I think this could go even futher and I'm not happy about it

You only lose Luma for a whopping 13 seconds when your adversary takes the time to knock it off. Having Luma shouldn't grant you the privileges of not being able to be grabbed or punished upon shield break or sleeping.
I understand you are used to it, and you like your character because those traits are good, but they are largely unbalanced and not a SINGLE other character is able to get out of being punished in those situations, and as a non-Rosaluma main, beyond the ridiculous off-stage shenanigans and the long jab loops, I wasn't bothered by Rosaluma until I discovered she had a get out of jail free card which was completely unfair and unwarranted as far as game balance is concerned.

Edit: I am no longer going to present my opinion. I just wanted to share that it seems fair to a non-Rosaluma main because it is hard enough getting in on Rosaluma in the first place, so not rewarding me for actually doing so just felt cheap and unfair.

 

[ChikoLad]

You only lose Luma for a whopping 13 seconds when your adversary takes the time to knock it off. Having Luma shouldn't grant you the privileges of not being able to be grabbed or punished upon shield break or sleeping.
I understand you are used to it, and you like your character because those traits are good, but they are largely unbalanced and not a SINGLE other character is able to get out of being punished in those situations, and as a non-Rosaluma main, beyond the ridiculous off-stage shenanigans and the long jab loops, I wasn't bothered by Rosaluma until I discovered she had a get out of jail free card which was completely unfair and unwarranted as far as game balance is concerned.

How was it unfair?

-You could attack Luma out of it before he got a chance to hit
-Luma had to be very near Rosalina in the first place for this to have any benefit
-If Rosalina is in the middle of a pummel/throw animation, Luma is restricted to one specific, really hard to hit with attack

It was a unique strength that only she had, but there were definitive counters to it that every character could execute.

 

[HeroMystic]

You only lose Luma for a whopping 13 seconds when your adversary takes the time to knock it off. Having Luma shouldn't grant you the privileges of not being able to be grabbed or punished upon shield break or sleeping.
I understand you are used to it, and you like your character because those traits are good, but they are largely unbalanced and not a SINGLE other character is able to get out of being punished in those situations, and as a non-Rosaluma main, beyond the ridiculous off-stage shenanigans and the long jab loops, I wasn't bothered by Rosaluma until I discovered she had a get out of jail free card which was completely unfair and unwarranted as far as game balance is concerned.

Ice Climbers had the same shenanigans, if not amplified by the fact that Nana was much easier to desync and they had to a 0-death amongst the entire cast.

 

[Dapplegonger]

I'm happy for this change. At first it probably caught people by surprise, but now I feel kind of bad whenever I do it. I know Rosalina has unique mechanics, but I feel like being the only character to fight from two places at once, to attack while shielding (autocancelled aerials), AND to attack out of hitstun/tumble/helplessness/shield break/grab is a little bit much.

 

[DarkKiru]

Just chiming in to say, Im gonna have to agree with the Rosalina players here (and I don't even play Rosalina, quite the opposite I despise her, I've never been a fan of puppet characters).

I think its a bit too soon to implement such immense changes (does she like, have the highest FG winrate or something?) I was okay with Luma getting its respawn timer knocked up, but this might be a little much (even if it won't affect good Rosalina's much), especially doing it so early before people have even had the chance to get their hands on the Wii U version of the game.

Important to note by the way, Luma is still very strong even with this change though; it can block projectiles, act out of any hitstun (sans grabs, though it can act after those) and generally be annoying to your opponent.

 

[ChikoLad]

Just chiming in to say, Im gonna have to agree with the Rosalina players here (and I don't even play Rosalina, quite the opposite I despise her, I've never been a fan of puppet characters).

I think its a bit too soon to implement such immense changes (does she like, have the highest FG winrate or something?) I was okay with Luma getting its respawn timer knocked up, but this might be a little much (even if it won't affect good Rosalina's much), especially doing it so early before people have even had the chance to get their hands on the Wii U version of the game.

This will effect good Rosalinas actually, because it means they no longer have an effective counter to being grabbed. Without this, Rosalina can be grabbed a lot easier (she's one of the biggest characters in the game).

I also doubt she has the highest FG win rate. She isn't as popular as the likes of Greninja and Sheik in the context of Smash, and those two are also high performing characters.

 

[HeroMystic]

What does bother me, is with the way these balance changes are going, it's going to lead Rosalina to being a much more campy character. That isn't really fun for anyone.

 

[ellord]

Everytime I attack rosalina, luma counter. With low knocback attack (most fast attack) or grab. Because if rosa send a input few frame after getting hit or grabed or at the same time but with lower priority, luma still apply the last input. So my match against rosa was me waiting for her attack engage so she cannot send any input to rosa when i strike back. It also mean if she doesn't engage, we had no fight.

So im glad of this nerf.