R.O.B. Matchup Analysis #16 - Pac Man

[GwJ]

 

[Syde7]

50:50 to 55:45 (ROBs favor), imo. Would be fine to call this up to 60:40 (ROBs favor).

Notes:

• Pac-man has a harder time killing than ROB, imo. Pacman will probably be looking for key, higher % fire hydrant (outright KO), or fire hydrant/fruit set ups for smashes/N-airs/side+Bs as KO options.
  
  
• Gimping is possible, but you have to catch the Pac-Man recovering from low & the side, which is hard to do as side+B will usually bring him close enough to be able to safely use trampoline. Both options are gimpable, obviously... you just have to set it up properly so that you either F-air the side+B during the animation or during the cooldown (before he uses trampoline), or hit him out of trampoline during the arching portion.
  
  
• Another MU where the U-throw nerf sucks. Most Pac-mains will play super campy, so in the event you manage to get close enough to hit a KO move, having one of them nerfed really sucks. Most of my kills against Pac players have come in the form of U-throws. Though, due to the nerf Im having to be a bit more creative (which is a good thing, I just prefer to not be forced to, but rather choose to.)
  
  
• In terms of campiness, I feel that Pac has a slight edge, but its negligible.
  
  
• Pac-man has very few solid approach options (imo). I think some type of fruit throw into F-airs or something is the most effective one he has. So if you do manage to get a significant enough lead, prepare to give him a taste of his own medicine by camping the ****e out of him.
  
  
• Immediate hydrants can really fux up our U-air game. But, I've had success with actually powering through it with U/air, but the spacing has to be immaculate. If you can ever get in position, you can take advantage of a Pac-mans instinct to defensively/combo break hydrant to land a B-air (best option if you're in the position, especially if within 2/3 stage lengths away from the edge-->near the edge), F-air, or N-air.
  
  
• Angled lasers, SH and FJ lasers+gyros, and gyros on the ground are amazing options in this MU due to how Pac-man typically plays w/ him using SH or FJ fruit pulls, movement on stage to create space, etc. All of the aforementioned options disrupt Pac, and while we may not be able to get much off of them, its chip damage... which is what this MU is all about.
  
  
• Regarding standing angled, SH/FH angled lasers, its a HUGE benefit that we can reach Pac at almost any height & position on stage he likes to move to to pull fruit. Let him commit to a height first, and react with the appropriate laser usage. You have to be quick, as there's just enough time to squeeze on in on reaction vs. prediction.
  
  
• Pac-mans up+B is a great bail-out move. I've seen lots of pacs utilize dash attack->up+B if it misses or is shielded. I've also seen them use trampoline as a way to retreat safely for further camping in the event you get too close for their comfort. This not only gets them out of a sticky situation, but winds up laying an awkward trap (the trampoline) on the field that can really goof with your options/further approaches, as well as set-up for some stuff for Pac. There's lots more uses for it, but these are the most common.
  
  
• Keep a watch for the Re-routed Side+B. Basically, Pacman can throw a hydrant -> land on it -> immediately side+B around and into the hydrant. This causes the hydrant to be launched, and pac-man to instantly reverse his momentum and come shooting toward you at a pretty quick speed. Definitely can catch you off-guard, and the trajectory the move sends the hydrant in, coupled with the trajectory of pac-man out of the reverse launch is ideal for all sorts of silliness. Not sure if this has been patched in the most recent one.
  
  
• Tilts/pokes work really well in this MU (especially pivot tilts... and if you're feeling ballsy, even pivot smashes), as does F-air and N-air. Knowing that Pac likes to keep a certain degree of space, using pivot options (tilts, smashes, grabs) are great, especially if you have a bead on HOW he likes to create that space (cross-up w/ a roll or dash(attack)->trampoline or just simply retreating via rolls or walking/dashing).
  
  
• Once you get it on pac-man, outside of trampoline escape, I don't feel that he has a ton of options. If you can learn to expect the trampoline (if he makes a habit of using it a certain way) you can still probably get a solid FU option, but again... I feel that that's mostly dependant on the Pac-man being predictable or you making a solid read & taking a gamble.
  
  
• Most lower to mid-level pac-mans will only smash the hydrant. You don't need to concern yourself too much with that tactic, its easy enough to see coming & act accordingly. Where it gets tricky is if the Pac-Main knows the HP of the hydrant and the damage his moveset does. Thereby, he can use a bunch of different moves to decrease the HP & ultimately launch the hydrant at somewhat diff. trajectories & also unexpectedly. Something I've seen higher level pacs do vs. me (and in general) is an immediate aerial (N-air, I think??) after dropping the hydrant. This seems to cancel/decrease the N-air landing lag, and instantly puts some damage on the hydrant, making it easier for Pac to launch later.
  
  
• Fruit shenanigans are real. If pac-man manages to grab his own fruit, try to imagine that you are playing another ROB w/ a gyro in hand in terms of what he wants to do with it (set up for a grab, N-air, possible hydrant, or side-B).
  
  
• Im not terribly familiar with what Pacs can do with the flightpaths of the various bonus fruit... but I know that Galaga has all kinds of weird follow-ups and mixups with it if it hits (Shot via B, or picked up and thrown), that the Paralyzing fruit (is it the gelatin??) will go through the stage from below (not to mention the wacky set-ups it provides).
  
  
• I also think that there's a wacky tech with his hydrant that will allow it to go through platforms, and through stages to bop people below (so, platforms aren't quite as protective as they once were, and recovering from below is now legitimately challenged). I think its performed by performing an aerial close to the platform, and then Down+B'ing. The short hop the drop gives isn't enough to plant the hydrant on the platform, which results in the hydrant drop happening below the platform. It can be performed with any aerial, so if you see a Pac performing an empty aerial above you on a plat... shield or get the hell outta Dodge. There may be the option to U-smash here, though (as I think if you're quick enough in recognizing what he's going to do you can pull a U-smash or U-tilt out and hit him during the aerial or just after it, before the hydrant pull as he will be in U-smash range, especially on BF/Lylat, possibly on SV and the lowest platform sets on T&C
  
  
• If you feel ballsy, Rotor Arm on Hydrant is amazing as a KO option. I kinda like rotor arm in general in this MU, tbh. But, that's just me.

TL;DR: Its a battle of chip damage. Get in on him as safely and as early as possible. Get your damage and then beat him at his own game as Pac has very few solid/reliable/non-gimmicky approaches. Don't get bopped by his gimmicks (familiarize yourself with this stuff... the front page has a few vids I'd recommend watching). Be PATIENT. Look for gimps or successful edgeguard conversions, pivot smashes, or a late U-throw for KOs.

 

[Lizard_Buttock]

I'd say this one's a 60:40 for us. His thrown projectiles can be blocked by the gyro, as can his side-B. However, the hydrant can screw up our zoning and gimp our recovery, and his recovery's pretty tough to gimp. We can both be pretty campy characters, but I'd say we win out over him on the zoning front thanks to our higher range in projectiles and the fact that we can use our projectiles quicker than pac-man can. A fully charged laser can also knock a fire hydrant back in to him if he's trying to use it as a shield. If they're playing aggressively, it should be pretty easy to camp them out and punish their incredibly predictable kill opportunities (his throws and smashes), but he can pretty easily edgeguard us with the hydrant, and you should watch out for their n-air, but beyond that, this is a pretty nice matchup.

 

[Crome]

Gotta agree with @Syde7, Arm Rotor is great for this MU. Pacman has so many projectiles and can't properly punish it if we whiff.

 

[Nu~]

Better summon the boys
@BSP
@ D dragontamer
@Paper Maribro
@ Firedemon0
@ WeirdChillFever
@fromundaman

Before I begin, let me mention that dropping a hydrant on your gyro weakens it enough for us to pick it up

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Better summon the boys
@BSP
@ D dragontamer
@Paper Maribro
@ Firedemon0
@ WeirdChillFever
@fromundaman

Before I begin, let me mention that dropping a hydrant on your gyro weakens it enough for us to pick it up

UTaunt should feature me instead of Mappy with all this summoning.

Power Pellet will do stuff and eeh, sorry man i got nothing.

 

[Syde7]

Better summon the boys
@BSP
@ D dragontamer
@Paper Maribro
@ Firedemon0
@ WeirdChillFever
@fromundaman

Before I begin, let me mention that dropping a hydrant on your gyro weakens it enough for us to pick it up

And, I learned something today.

Also, I couldn't help but imagining the first like... the first 45 seconds of the video to Michael Jackson's "Beat it" at the "summon the boys" comment... but with big, yellow pac-men instead of gang members. And, I laughed.

 

[Nu~]

And, I learned something today.

Also, I couldn't help but imagining the first like... the first 45 seconds of the video to Michael Jackson's "Beat it" at the "summon the boys" comment... but with big, yellow pac-men instead of gang members. And, I laughed.

I'll admit, I did feel like that when I posted that comment lol.
My avatar is perfect for it.

To give a summary of what most of us feel the ROB matchup is, here is sample from our thread:

R.O.B. is a different story, but he is less of a problem. R.O.B.'s aerial combos are based on u-air and f-air, so, like Nimbus said, do crossups on the ground to get behind him and use RAR f-airs on landings (don't frequent them, though, the opponent can catch on), cherries on gyros and off-stage to gimp, and try to refrain from launching hydrant too much. R.O.B.'s reflector can be angled to cover just about every launching Hydrant option Pac has. Instead, try dropping one on the ground and using PP into the floor to go into your downed state. Let the water push you under R.O.B.'s lasers and gyros so you can approach with rolls, get ups, and get up attacks. This is a great mixup approach that works on lots of characters that don't have too much low ground coverage, and R.O.B. is so tall that the only definite way you can be punished for this is if he reacts with d-smash and clanks, but even then, an uncharged d-smash will not stun Pac long enough for R.O.B. to get any serious punishment off. A d-tilt could catch you if your opponent reacts fast enough, but keep in mind that Pac is all about mixups. Use everything in different ways each match and you'll do just fine.

This is matchup that I feel is firmly in our favor (or 40:60 if you want to use ratios)

Unfortunately you are one of the unlock characters that fall victim to this
http://youtu.be/yi2zCi54ASg

This effectively eliminates your option of retreating to the ledge because we can severely punish your get up with any fruit if you jump, or smash attack if you wait.
Pac-Man does lose in the long range zoning game, but he excels in the CQC and mid range. Our aerials and tilts all come out faster than yours, and we combo you hard in the air.

We disrespect your zoning game with our hydrant. We can pick up your gyro immediately after dropping the hydrant on it, and then force you to approach. With your gyro in our hands, we can charge up to whatever fruits we want to use. We even have an extremely safe approach/poke in this matchup.
http://youtu.be/0fNJlLfmhbM

I will write more later when I have the time ^^;

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think Pac-Man can play with R.O.B's blindspots, and if you read the laser we can sneak a Key in.

But that laser screws with our Hydrant Camp and approach, so I'm not sure which one to do.
I've had the most success when playing Rushdown and Apple in R.O.B's blindspotty face so that might work here.

No ratings, just two cents.

 

[Nu~]

I think Pac-Man can play with R.O.B's blindspots, and if you read the laser we can sneak a Key in.

But that laser screws with our Hydrant Camp and approach, so I'm not sure which one to do.
I've had the most success when playing Rushdown and Apple in R.O.B's blindspotty face so that might work here.

No ratings, just two cents.

I would let him hit the hydrant with the laser.
Weakens it enough for us to send it flying with one ftilt. If he tries to rotor arm it, use that time to approach because the rotor arm will send the hydrant over your head. And I'm pretty sure a fully charged laser only does 10%~ so it doesn't one shot the hydrant

Wait, made a mistake. His dtilt and utilt are faster than ours. Ours have a lot more range however

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I would let him hit the hydrant with the laser.
Weakens it enough for us to send it flying with one ftilt. If he tries to rotor arm it, use that time to approach because the rotor arm will send the hydrant over your head. And I'm pretty sure a fully charged laser only does 10%~ so it doesn't one shot the hydrant

Wait, made a mistake. His dtilt and utilt are faster than ours. Ours have a lot more range however

R.O.B is mostly "Waltz over and Watch out".
Nair is powerful, but slow.
Lasers are fast, but need to load etc.

 

[Syde7]

I'll admit, I did feel like that when I posted that comment lol.
My avatar is perfect for it.

To give a summary of what most of us feel the ROB matchup is, here is sample from our thread:



This is matchup that I feel is firmly in our favor (or 40:60 if you want to use ratios)

Unfortunately you are one of the unlock characters that fall victim to this
http://youtu.be/yi2zCi54ASg

This effectively eliminates your option of retreating to the ledge because we can severely punish your get up with any fruit if you jump, or smash attack if you wait.
Pac-Man does lose in the long range zoning game, but he excels in the CQC and mid range. Our aerials and tilts all come out faster than yours, and we combo you hard in the air.

We disrespect your zoning game with our hydrant. We can pick up your gyro immediately after dropping the hydrant on it, and then force you to approach. With your gyro in our hands, we can charge up to whatever fruits we want to use. We even have an extremely safe approach/poke in this matchup.
http://youtu.be/0fNJlLfmhbM

I will write more later when I have the time ^^;

We're going to be using F-, D-tilts (mostly D-tilt due to speed and having a nearly identical range as F-tilt, sans the ability to angle) or jab (probably 2nd best option) which com out fast enough to offset your improved range. Though, I will concede that your aerials all come out faster, but tbh, I think N-air has a large enough hitbox+disjoint, and F-air has a large enough disjoint that if we space them properly, the disjoints trump the speed. That's really just my opinion, though.

I'll definitely concede the "combo us hard in the air", but believe me... that's nothing new for us, and there's a good number of characters that can do it better than Pac-man so its not as bad to us as you may think it is. I really think aerially, its a toss-up that relies on who is on the offensive & aerially pressuring + who is spacing their options in the air the best.

Also, I know about the F-air poking mess, but its never posed a problem for me. Its not like ROB hasn't had to deal with that before (Marth in Brawl, for example), its the same general principle. Our f-tilt has comparable enough range to deal with it. Yes, your F-air comes out faster but it seems you guys have to start it a bit earlier in order to maximize your retreating space with it (sort of the whole point behind that approach, it feels) that gives F-tilt enough time to come out (as Ive used it relatively successfully). Plus, there's always tilting the shield up (to block hit to the face) and then down (to block a FU d-tilt/dash attack/etc) or a retreating F-air of our own (if we have the room).

I also wouldn't say hydrant disrespects our zoning game (at least not to that degree). Villager taking our gyro and having it for the whole stock is disrespecting. And, as zoney/campy as Pac is, a Villager he is not. You'll have to throw it or drop it sometime. Getting the gyro =/= free fruit pulls. Laser is just fine with sniping that out unless you shield (now, if you mean to say that you'd just cancel the rotation to shield, and then continue with the pull later... then I wholeheartedly agree).

I didn't know about the trampoline-force-jump on the ledge. That does seem a bit wonky to deal with, and I can't recall if I've experienced it personally or not, and it does seem to present a big challenge.

And, you are correct... charged laser won't one-shot the hydrant. I only use charged laser on hydrant if the Pac isn't close, and if I am in range to hit with a semi-charged gyro, or am approaching (SH laser and land near the hydrant) where i can hit with a d-tilt or something before the Pac can get to it. Otherwise, totally not worth wasting a full-charge. I will however, rotor into a hydrant. It does a good job of launching it. If you're close, you get caught up in it and eat the hydrant, and there's the possibility that if you do get a jab or something quick in right before or during the rotor arm that it will reflect it. I'm willing to take that gamble in certain situations (depends on stock and percentage count, stage positioning, etc).

All in all, you brought up some really great points - many that I overlooked. I think that its really a rock/paper/scissors game once you get past the 4 or 5 char lengths apart... and its going to be a game of small adjustments to move into and remain in the ideal spots at the closer-mid to close ranges.

I think Pac-Man can play with R.O.B's blindspots, and if you read the laser we can sneak a Key in.

But that laser screws with our Hydrant Camp and approach, so I'm not sure which one to do.
I've had the most success when playing Rushdown and Apple in R.O.B's blindspotty face so that might work here.

No ratings, just two cents.

I agree about getting in the blindspot. Pac has a good character model, hurtbox, and set of tools to get into these blindspots, better than most. I also think you're right in that being a bit more rushdown and using fruit set-ups in our blindspots (as I mentioned in my initial analysis) ala Mario & fireballs is one of your better options to get in and take advantage.

 

[Firedemon0]

I feel like a gang member now >.>

I played R.O.B extensively in Brawl, love him in PM. Dabbled briefly before picking up Pac-man. This fight is definitely in Pac-man's favor.

Once Pac-man gets in, Rob has a very hard time getting him out. If Rob's Nair was just a bit faster or was a backflip, he would have a better shot. Pac-man is able to safely poke at Rob's shields with retreating SH fairs. No OOS option really can punish it except laser. When well spaced, Rob cannot dash in as he will run right into a ftilt or worse a fmash. With his large hitbox, Rob is able to be grabbed while Pac-man is standing on top of his hydrant, leading to an up-throw and air juggles, which are never good for Rob. Your best bet is to try to get to ledge in those cases. Trying to punish approaches with nairs.

Long range, the fight is definitely in Rob's favor as long as he does not waste Gyro on shield, or a hydrant. This will allow Pac-man to grab the gyro and Rob has a very slow laser as his only tool to keep Pac-man out. To keep Pac-man out, you need to tilt or jab hydrant, safely. If he is nearby, wait for the Bair, then laser it. He should be unable to escape in time.

Off stage, Default Rob is at a horrible disadvantage recovering, but that is resolved with customs luckily. Kinda wish they went the PM route with his Up-B. Pacman is also able to be gimped by smart gyro use. You can hit the Side-B and dramatically lower Pac-man's recovery. Gimp the Side-B follow up with laser, and if they wasted double jump, you should close out the stock with a well timed bair or dair.

You have to be cautious and try to steal Pac-man's Fruit, use that and Gyro to basically try to camp out Pac-man. It is difficult, but Rob's tools are just a bit too slow to really keep him out. You have to rely a bit too heavily on prediction, which is dangerous against Pac-man. Basically try to keep the fight midrange and try to wall him out with specials and tilts. Don't be afraid to side-B a hydrant or two back at Pac-man.

40:60 in Pac-mans Favor.

 

[Syde7]

I feel like a gang member now >.>

I played R.O.B extensively in Brawl, love him in PM. Dabbled briefly before picking up Pac-man. This fight is definitely in Pac-man's favor.

Once Pac-man gets in, Rob has a very hard time getting him out. If Rob's Nair was just a bit faster or was a backflip, he would have a better shot. Pac-man is able to safely poke at Rob's shields with retreating SH fairs. No OOS option really can punish it except laser. When well spaced, Rob cannot dash in as he will run right into a ftilt or worse a fmash. With his large hitbox, Rob is able to be grabbed while Pac-man is standing on top of his hydrant, leading to an up-throw and air juggles, which are never good for Rob. Your best bet is to try to get to ledge in those cases. Trying to punish approaches with nairs.

Long range, the fight is definitely in Rob's favor as long as he does not waste Gyro on shield, or a hydrant. This will allow Pac-man to grab the gyro and Rob has a very slow laser as his only tool to keep Pac-man out. To keep Pac-man out, you need to tilt or jab hydrant, safely. If he is nearby, wait for the Bair, then laser it. He should be unable to escape in time.

Off stage, Default Rob is at a horrible disadvantage recovering, but that is resolved with customs luckily. Kinda wish they went the PM route with his Up-B. Pacman is also able to be gimped by smart gyro use. You can hit the Side-B and dramatically lower Pac-man's recovery. Gimp the Side-B follow up with laser, and if they wasted double jump, you should close out the stock with a well timed bair or dair.

You have to be cautious and try to steal Pac-man's Fruit, use that and Gyro to basically try to camp out Pac-man. It is difficult, but Rob's tools are just a bit too slow to really keep him out. You have to rely a bit too heavily on prediction, which is dangerous against Pac-man. Basically try to keep the fight midrange and try to wall him out with specials and tilts. Don't be afraid to side-B a hydrant or two back at Pac-man.

40:60 in Pac-mans Favor.

I really appreciate & value you Pac-Mains input. TBH, I didn't know some of these things that you guys mentioned. Definite eye-openers. I still maintain that this isn't any worse than 50:50, (its not that I think ROB is better than he is, I actually think he is a very mediocre/close to bad character) but I'd be happy to change that ratio if I were to play a pac and felt overwhelmed. I'd love to play some of you Pacs online or something sometime, and get much more familiar with the MU & see some of these trixies in practice.

Thanks for contributing. Definitely will help us ROBs improve.

 

[Jams.]

Better summon the boys
@BSP
@ D dragontamer
@Paper Maribro
@ Firedemon0
@ WeirdChillFever
@fromundaman

Before I begin, let me mention that dropping a hydrant on your gyro weakens it enough for us to pick it up

I'm curious what you mean by this. Do you mean that using hydrant on a grounded gyro lets you pick it up easily? What's the advantage of using this option versus clanking with a jab then picking it up, using dash attack, jumping and using z, or just walking up to it and picking it up off the ground?

 

[dragontamer]

Rob with Gyro is pretty annoying. I think Rob has a good "keep out" game that makes it hard for PacMan to approach. Also, playing "outside" of Rob's melee attacks is kinda right where Rob wants us. Lasers and Top, Lasers and top. Rob definitely has the advantage in the long-game.

However, Rob is extremely gimpable, and PacMan's aerial mobility and great air dodges can weave in and out of Rob's Nair, Bair, and Dair. Rob's Fair and UAir are very good attacks however, but PacMan seems to have many more options in the air. Overall, Rob's aerials are great when he has momentum, but they seem subpar at protecting him as he recovers.

PacMan can take advantage of that because of Fair. If Rob recovers low (instead of high or mid), PacMan can cover that with Hydrant. I've gimped my fair share of Robs.

Ultimately, I definitely think this is a matchup in PacMan's favor. Not quite 60:40, maybe 55:45. Roughly where Mario vs PacMan feels to me, except in reverse. (Mario is IMO 55:45 Mario's favor).

The PacMan player needs to take advantage of SH Retreating Fairs. The Rob player can threaten PacMan's rushdown hard with OOS USmashes however, he just can't spam that attack.

 

[Firedemon0]

The PacMan player needs to take advantage of SH Retreating Fairs. The Rob player can threaten PacMan's rushdown hard with OOS USmashes however, he just can't spam that attack.

This requires some pretty good prediction on Rob's part however. Whiffing the Up-smash is bad for Rob as it does not vacuum.

 

[Nu~]

I'm curious what you mean by this. Do you mean that using hydrant on a grounded gyro lets you pick it up easily? What's the advantage of using this option versus clanking with a jab then picking it up, using dash attack, jumping and using z, or just walking up to it and picking it up off the ground?

If we drop a hydrant on the gyro, then it slides towards the side that we drop it on. This also weakens the hydrant which lets us launch it with less moves and puts a barrier between you and us while we pick the gyro up.

 

[Firedemon0]

If we drop a hydrant on the gyro, then it slides towards the side that we drop it on. This also weakens the hydrant which lets us launch it with less moves and puts a barrier between you and us while we pick the gyro up.

This does allow for a laser break however, so I would not recommend it often!

 

[Mister Eric]

I think ROB messes pac-man up

 

[makemesmellbad]

To give more of my two cents, I think Pac has an advantage in sheer options. R.O.B. can camp just as well as Pac, but R.O.B. is extremely susceptible to combos without having too many reliable breakers. His weight, size, and lack of break moves can be a game breaker since Pac-Man does have a decent offensive game. With that said, Pac's offensive game is very limited to getting the right positioning and spacing, and R.O.B., if played well, can prevent Pac from getting in at all. I would still say this matchup is almost even with more of Pac's favor, because options and coverage are just as strong as frame traps and speed pressure, which Pac-Man also has a bit of. R.O.B. may be harder to kill, but Pac can get some serious damage in and disrupt a R.O.B.'s Gyros with his air stall and Hydrant placement. Trampoline may still be useful for punishing shields since his gab is still wonky, but unless the stage has platforms to retreat to, R.O.B. can punish with Beam or Gyro. R.O.B.s gameplan is usually traps and punishes, but Pac has breakers where R.O.B. does not, and Pac also has the option to play offensively or defensively at will with even minimal and maximum set up, which can change game flow so much to turn a set from Smash Bros. 4 to Smash Bros.: The Rhythm Game.

To sum up, R.O.B. has a much stronger range game than Pac, but Pac can definitely toy with R.O.B. far past kill percents, and Hydrants, b-airs, Keys, n-airs, and smash attacks all covered with some other set up gives Pac a distinct advantage in stage control as well as mind games. Never counter pick Halberd as R.O.B. against Pac--slopes can make an even harder matchup in this case.

 

[makemesmellbad]

I really appreciate & value you Pac-Mains input. TBH, I didn't know some of these things that you guys mentioned. Definite eye-openers. I still maintain that this isn't any worse than 50:50, (its not that I think ROB is better than he is, I actually think he is a very mediocre/close to bad character) but I'd be happy to change that ratio if I were to play a pac and felt overwhelmed. I'd love to play some of you Pacs online or something sometime, and get much more familiar with the MU & see some of these trixies in practice.

Thanks for contributing. Definitely will help us ROBs improve.

I wouldn't play seriously online, lol. The real competition spurs in local tournaments where you have ease of access of a competitive community that could possibly be at/surpass/grow to your level of play. Online's lag may seem minimal, but to tournament players such as myself, it makes a huge difference. Reaction times can't be measured well with even a 7-frame input delay.

 

[Syde7]

I wouldn't play seriously online, lol. The real competition spurs in local tournaments where you have ease of access of a competitive community that could possibly be at/surpass/grow to your level of play. Online's lag may seem minimal, but to tournament players such as myself, it makes a huge difference. Reaction times can't be measured well with even a 7-frame input delay.

I apologize in advance if I'm taking that the wrong way, and if I am disregard the (thusly unwarranted) snarkiness of this comment, but the bolded statement reeks of misplaced elitism. I mean, I'm a tournament player as well, typically 3 or so a month w/ placings solidly in Top 8 (7th has been my lowest placing, as I recall) and our state isn't "free" (One of our top players coming in 2nd at Final Round 18, beating Player 1, Logic, & Fatality, another one of our mid-PR-ranked coming in 13th at that same tournament with another top player having taken Boss and 6WX [iirc, don't quote me as 100% accurate on that] to game 5).

So, for tournament players such as myself, online is a great way to experience and learn new matchups that you don't get to see in the local (and sometimes regional) scenes, new and different ways characters can be played. I concede that delay/lag/whatever kinda fuggz some stuff up, but if you play to observe, experience, and learn... it really isn't an issue. When it comes to that, its not a measure of skill, or reaction time, or anything along those lines, but rather: "Oh, this character is capable of doing X. Now that I've seen it a few times, I will know to be on the lookout for when I play someone who uses this character in tournament". Online is the easiest, most accessible way to learn lots of new things whether your a tournament player or not.

 

[makemesmellbad]

I apologize in advance if I'm taking that the wrong way, and if I am disregard the (thusly unwarranted) snarkiness of this comment, but the bolded statement reeks of misplaced elitism. I mean, I'm a tournament player as well, typically 3 or so a month w/ placings solidly in Top 8 (7th has been my lowest placing, as I recall) and our state isn't "free" (One of our top players coming in 2nd at Final Round 18, beating Player 1, Logic, & Fatality, another one of our mid-PR-ranked coming in 13th at that same tournament with another top player having taken Boss and 6WX [iirc, don't quote me as 100% accurate on that] to game 5).

So, for tournament players such as myself, online is a great way to experience and learn new matchups that you don't get to see in the local (and sometimes regional) scenes, new and different ways characters can be played. I concede that delay/lag/whatever kinda fuggz some stuff up, but if you play to observe, experience, and learn... it really isn't an issue. When it comes to that, its not a measure of skill, or reaction time, or anything along those lines, but rather: "Oh, this character is capable of doing X. Now that I've seen it a few times, I will know to be on the lookout for when I play someone who uses this character in tournament". Online is the easiest, most accessible way to learn lots of new things whether your a tournament player or not.

I didn't mean it like that, it's good for match up knowledge, but it's not good for finding out what to do during the match up. if you need fast reaction speed in order to break a combo or DI away from/into an opponent, online isn't the most consistent outlet. It's good in theory but not in execution.

 

[Syde7]

I didn't mean it like that, it's good for match up knowledge, but it's not good for finding out what to do during the match up. if you need fast reaction speed in order to break a combo or DI away from/into an opponent, online isn't the most consistent outlet. It's good in theory but not in execution.

Then I apologize for my misunderstanding. And yes, I agree to the points you listed, I was speaking directly toward MU knowledge. Again, my apologies.

 

[makemesmellbad]

Then I apologize for my misunderstanding. And yes, I agree to the points you listed, I was speaking directly toward MU knowledge. Again, my apologies.

No harm done! Understanding is always important in a community.