Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[N. Onymous]

You draw her hair so wild.

You say that as if it isn't crazy to begin with!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Man, how fitting it would be for her to be a revealed in tomorrow's Japan 3DS-direct.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Man, how fitting it would be for her to be a revealed in tomorrow's Japan 3DS-direct.

What's fitting about it, is it Panel de Pon's anniversary?

 

[Loïc]

You draw her hair so wild.

It's a "stylistic" thing I suppose haha

Also, what's this about Japanese direct tomorrow? While there's most definitely going to be something related to smash in it, what are the chances Lip will be involved at all?

 

[Luminario]

It's a "stylistic" thing I suppose haha

Also, what's this about Japanese direct tomorrow? While there's most definitely going to be something related to smash in it, what are the chances Lip will be involved at all?

Ehhhh They'll probably throw in Shulk cause he's so popular over there for some reason (I think it's because he's like Cloud from Final Fantasy to Nintendo) But she might still have a chance due to her Japan only status so we have to wait and see.

 

[JaidynReiman]

It's a "stylistic" thing I suppose haha

Also, what's this about Japanese direct tomorrow? While there's most definitely going to be something related to smash in it, what are the chances Lip will be involved at all?

The chances of seeing Lip are quite slim. I'd say the only way we'll see Lip is if Intelligent Systems announces that they're bringing back Panel de Pon.

Ehhhh They'll probably throw in Shulk cause he's so popular over there for some reason (I think it's because he's like Cloud from Final Fantasy to Nintendo) But she might still have a chance due to her Japan only status so we have to wait and see.

In all honesty, I doubt we'll see Shulk tomorrow. Its a 3DS exclusive Direct, if anything they'd focus on showing off a handheld character. The only potential newcomer I can see being announced tomorrow who still has a chance being announced is Isaac, but I don't think we'll get an announcement because its Japan-only.

 

[Luminario]

The chances of seeing Lip are quite slim. I'd say the only way we'll see Lip is if Intelligent Systems announces that they're bringing back Panel de Pon.



In all honesty, I doubt we'll see Shulk tomorrow. Its a 3DS exclusive Direct, if anything they'd focus on showing off a handheld character. The only potential newcomer I can see being announced tomorrow who still has a chance being announced is Isaac, but I don't think we'll get an announcement because its Japan-only.

Good point they'll probably save Shulk until a week before Japanese release for maximum hype. Isn't there like a PAX closed media event... thingy? for the West to tie along with the Japanese direct? that would make a character reveal more likely, right? (I'm not too familiar with these kind of events so I have no idea who goes to them or how big it is)

 

[JaidynReiman]

Good point they'll probably save Shulk until a week before Japanese release for maximum hype. Isn't there like a PAX closed media event... thingy? for the West to tie along with the Japanese direct? that would make a character reveal more likely, right? (I'm not too familiar with these kind of events so I have no idea who goes to them or how big it is)

Actually, I doubt it. I don't think Shulk is going to be announced before release at this point, but I could be wrong. Shulk would bring hype, but I think people are overrating how much hype he'd bring.

 

[Luminario]

Actually, I doubt it. I don't think Shulk is going to be announced before release at this point, but I could be wrong. Shulk would bring hype, but I think people are overrating how much hype he'd bring.

Everyone have said so much about how popular this god forsaken character is that I started to imagine people foaming at the mouth with excitement over his reveal (I'm CLEARLY not overrating the hype ).

 

[JaidynReiman]

Everyone have said so much about how popular this god forsaken character is that I started to imagine people foaming at the mouth with excitement over his reveal (I'm CLEARLY not overrating the hype ).

King K. Rool and Ridley would bring far more hype than Shulk ever would. Mewtwo, too. In fact, Mewtwo would be the #1 most hype bringing character worldwide, probably followed directly by King K. Rool. Ridley is likely in third, and after that it gets sketchy, probably dropping off significantly to the point where it becomes questionable. Shulk might be in that area, but other already announced characters already brought more hype in than Shulk would've (Palutena, Mega Man, Little Mac, Pac-Man), and frankly I think before Shulk's popularity increased over the last year, Isaac was a far more popular request as a whole.

Shulk is popular, and he would bring hype, but he's not even close to the most hypeable character. The only thing he is is the most hypeable of the leaked characters, and that's not saying much. I honestly believe Shulk will be a secret character, mainly because he will bring some hype and make the final roster not as "crap" as Brawl's secret characters. Same with Bowser Jr., I bet Bowser Jr. was being saved on purpose to be a secret character, but they left out the most hyped characters from that build on purpose just in case something got leaked.


And yes, I did say King K. Rool brings more hype than Ridley. Ridley is more hype in the west, but K. Rool is right behind him, and K. Rool is also very popular in Japan, where Ridley is "meh," which puts him above Ridley worldwide.


Granted, Lip doesn't have much of a place anywhere... I'm just hoping she'll at least be an AT.

 

[Loïc]

Lip would probably only generate hype for the people who support her and compared to the likes of Mewtwo, K. Rool, Ridley, Shulk, and Isaac...is quite small. She herself just isn't big enough (both literally and figuratively) to generate high levels of hype to the public, despite how much of an awesome and unique character she may be.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Lip would probably only generate hype for the people who support her and compared to the likes of Mewtwo, K. Rool, Ridley, Shulk, and Isaac...is quite small. She herself just isn't big enough (both literally and figuratively) to generate high levels of hype to the public, despite how much of an awesome and unique character she may be.

This, pretty much. Lip would get me hyped, but Lip if playable would really be secret character material... And that's incredibly unlikely at this point.

 

[N. Onymous]

What's fitting about it, is it Panel de Pon's anniversary?

That's not until October, and even then there's no guarantee we'll get anything for it.

Lip would probably only generate hype for the people who support her and compared to the likes of Mewtwo, K. Rool, Ridley, Shulk, and Isaac...is quite small. She herself just isn't big enough (both literally and figuratively) to generate high levels of hype to the public, despite how much of an awesome and unique character she may be.

True, but it would at least get people interested in her and her series. If the Kirby series can sell itself on cuteness, there's no reason Panel de Pon couldn't.

 

[Grimnir]

I can't understand how anyone can expect any new characters besides Bowser Jr., Shulk, Duck Hunt (dog?) and Dark Pit at this point, but I guess sometimes people have to learn lessons the hard way. Future DLC is the place you should be putting your hopes in.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I can't understand how anyone can expect any new characters besides Bowser Jr., Shulk, Duck Hunt (dog?) and Dark Pit at this point, but I guess sometimes people have to learn lessons the hard way. Future DLC is the place you should be putting your hopes in.

Because its flat out confirmed? The leaks quite CLEARLY show that All-Star Mode is locked. Ergo, not all characters are available, ergo, there are more characters than the ones in the leak. That's all.

 

[Loïc]

Not to mention the original leaker already claimed there were more characters. Besides, it's not like all of us are expecting Lip...in fact, it seems the majority of us have lost hope but hey...anything's possible. Plus, there's no harm in still supporting her until she's flat out deconfirmed. Gotta stick around to the bitter end, yo

 

[JaidynReiman]

Not to mention the original leaker already claimed there were more characters. Besides, it's not like all of us are expecting Lip...in fact, it seems the majority of us have lost hope but hey...anything's possible. Plus, there's no harm in still supporting her until she's flat out deconfirmed. Gotta stick around to the bitter end, yo

Unfortunately it probably isn't going to happen until someone finds her trophy in the game... kinda disappointing. Would be nice if she was at least considered for DLC material perhaps, but I'm not counting on Lip appearing as anything more than a trophy.

 

[N. Onymous]

Ehhhh They'll probably throw in Shulk cause he's so popular over there for some reason (I think it's because he's like Cloud from Final Fantasy to Nintendo) But she might still have a chance due to her Japan only status so we have to wait and see.

You called it.

Judging from the fact that Shulk's render in the CSS leak is 1:1 identical to the one on the website... it looks like NinkaKiwi is real. Nothing else to look forward to besides return of the revenge of Mario clone, Pit clone, Mario Character #7, and that effing dog... plus whatever characters weren't unlocked when that screenshot was taken, but why would any of them be Lip when we already have our retro and our puzzle rep. ><

We're basically done here. Best we just abandon ship and turn our attention to the Mario Kart 8 DLC, sad as it sounds.

 

[Deleted member]

That cements it, the leak is real. While I don't like some of the choices made (another KI rep, two more Mario characters, etc), it's nice to finally have certainity. I hope the still hidden characters are some nice surprises. I'm just surprised Shulk, or rather, a character at all, was shown in a Japan exclusive Direct.

I can't understand how anyone can expect any new characters besides Bowser Jr., Shulk, Duck Hunt (dog?) and Dark Pit at this point, but I guess sometimes people have to learn lessons the hard way.

Well, aren't you a nice fellow? Next time, before being that antagonistic, maybe you should get your facts straight, for reasons stated above already.

 

[Luminario]

ALL HAIL THE PROPHET!
We don't know every character yet. Lip still has an abysmal chance to get in so DON'T GIVE UP HOPE!

 

[N. Onymous]

I'd be amazed if we got so much as an assist trophy considering the constantly-present "BUY OUR STUFF!" aura pervading SSB4.

Honestly, prospects are so bleak at this point that I admire your ability to remain hopeful even now. Even if it most likely won't be here, I'm confident that Nintendo will bring back the fairy characters at some point (before 2060, at least...).

Spoiler

I just hope it's soon...

 

[Grimnir]

Well, aren't you a nice fellow? Next time, before being that antagonistic, maybe you should get your facts straight, for reasons stated above already.

That's a little rich coming from the most passive aggressive poster here, but I didn't come to argue. There's been enough discussion elsewhere as to why the select screen shown, minus the Mii Fighters, is the retail roster. If you guys want to argue right to the bitter end, so be it.

If anything, I'm too empathetic because it's literally painful to me to see people talking like Mewtwo, Ridley and K. Rool (let alone Lip) are just right around the corner, knowing how imminent their disappointment is.

 

[Luminario]

That's a little rich coming from the most passive aggressive poster here, but I didn't come to argue. There's been enough discussion elsewhere as to why the select screen shown, minus the Mii Fighters, is the retail roster. If you guys want to argue right to the bitter end, so be it.

If anything, I'm too empathetic because it's literally painful to me to see people talking like Mewtwo, Ridley and K. Rool (let alone Lip) are just right around the corner, knowing how imminent their disappointment is.

I thought it was pretty much accepted that the leak shown wasn't the final roster. Didn't the leaker himself say that it wasn't?

 

[JaidynReiman]

That's a little rich coming from the most passive aggressive poster here, but I didn't come to argue. There's been enough discussion elsewhere as to why the select screen shown, minus the Mii Fighters, is the retail roster. If you guys want to argue right to the bitter end, so be it.

If anything, I'm too empathetic because it's literally painful to me to see people talking like Mewtwo, Ridley and K. Rool (let alone Lip) are just right around the corner, knowing how imminent their disappointment is.

Where are you getting this idea? NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON thinks Lip is "just around the corner." Mewtwo, Ridley, and K. Rool are widely known as the "Big 3," the three most popular and most requested characters for the game overall, naturally people expect them to be. Lip? No one gives Lip a second look except the few fans she has here.

 

[N. Onymous]

Where are you getting this idea? NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON thinks Lip is "just around the corner." Mewtwo, Ridley, and K. Rool are widely known as the "Big 3," the three most popular and most requested characters for the game overall, naturally people expect them to be. Lip? No one gives Lip a second look except the few fans she has here.

As franchise, so character...

Lip and Panel de Pon are both the sort of character/franchise that are seemingly condemned to languish in the shadow of others, and it'll take nothing short of a miracle for that status quo to change.

 

[Loïc]

Ehhhh They'll probably throw in Shulk cause he's so popular over there for some reason (I think it's because he's like Cloud from Final Fantasy to Nintendo) But she might still have a chance due to her Japan only status so we have to wait and see.

ARE YOU A WIZARD

As franchise, so character...

Lip and Panel de Pon are both the sort of character/franchise that are seemingly condemned to languish in the shadow of others, and it'll take nothing short of a miracle for that status quo to change.

Well, Puzzle League (the gameplay style that originated from PDP) is still an on going series I believe...albeit still not a very popular franchise.

 

[N. Onymous]

The last game was in 2007, and from the sound of things, it performed well under expectations domestically due to cutting the fairy characters. I think that's why we're on ice for now. Nintendo still acknowledges it from time to time, with the Lip's Stick and occasionally a Virtual Console release of the original game (in Japan only, natch), but they're certainly not showing it a whole lot of love.

 

[Souldin]

I'm not exactly going to get my hopes up high in expecting Lip to become playable, but with the leaked roster looking both legit and yet not fully complete (All-Star mode was not unlocked from what I've heard), I can still keep hoping. If she doesn't make it as a playable character, I can hope for her as an Assist Trophy (the full list of Assist Trophies hasn't been leaked), or even for a trophy (I feel Melee's trophies led to a lot of people finding out about various Nintendo characters and later, go on to support them).

Even a Panel de Pon stage is something I can still hope for, as the Wii U's stage selection had not been leaked. It's unlikely but there are numerous ways to reference a character or series and I've still got plenty of hope that Lip and the Puzzle League series will gain greater inclusion in this SSB.

 

[4theRECORD]

Eh...I'm still pretty sure that she'll be in either this one, or the next(for some unknown reason). I don't expect to see Doc lie around in Smash 5(As much as I like Lucina,I'm getting the feeling that all clones of her type are going to be first in line for cuts) and even if he is, Lip still has a fair chance.She's both "female" and "protagonist", definately an unique aspect for a Nintendo character(excluding the ones you can make, there's only Samus.All the others are simply supporting cast) - and I still have high hopes for a new PdP for 3DS(Pretty sure I've stated my reasons on this before).
And besides, the CSS selection screen is already confirmed to be incomplete.Chances are low, definately, but I'm not completely giving up.

 

[Loïc]

It's a bit heartwarming to see how optimistic some of you guys are when most of us have just kind of accepted that she won't be playable. Still...any optimism is greatly appreciated if not NEEDED to keep this thread alive at this point. At least until a proper confirmation/deconfirmation.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I have optimism that she's one of the most likely retro reps to be playable, not that she actually will be playable. We don't have the full roster, but IMO, the most likely picks for those final slots are Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Wolf, Isaac, and Mewtwo. Obviously not all of them can fit into five slots; the only way this works is if the roster expands to more than 9 columns, which is possible. The starting roster is apparently 7 columns, and it keeps getting wider until at least 9.

It's a bit heartwarming to see how optimistic some of you guys are when most of us have just kind of accepted that she won't be playable. Still...any optimism is greatly appreciated if not NEEDED to keep this thread alive at this point. At least until a proper confirmation/deconfirmation.

I would really like Sakurai to announce Lip as an AT Monday, just to get it over with. He's added more obscure AT's than Lip already.

 

[Souldin]

Even though Lip is my most wanted newcomer, I'm currently more eager to see Ice Climbers confirmed for a return. I can handle having only one of my top 50 most wanted newcomers becoming playable (Little Mac), I can handle not caring for or even disliking a few of the newcomers added, but the removal of Ice Climbers will have me seething with rage.

A lack of Wolf also irks me.

So as far as remaining unlockables on that leaked SSB roster, my primary hope is to see Ice Climbers. After that comes Lip and Ridley (the lack of heavy weight newcomers is really getting to me, so right now my desire to see Lip and Ridley playable is just about equal) then Wolf returning. Still, with Lip I'd also be satisfied with an Assist Trophy role, it'd be good grounds to helping her become more relevant and advance onto a playable spot.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Yeah I hope that the Ice Climbers are back too.
To be honest, I'm a Lip supporter, but she's is in the lower part of my list of the most wanted characters.
I want her, don't get me wrong, but I'm already fine with the fact that she already has been represented in the game, in several ways, even if the actual character does not appear.

I have more wanted characters than the ones I added in my signature, characters such as Vaati, Geno (even if it doesn't make much sense in Smash 4, since he is a support character from a spin-off), Black Shadow/someone else from F-Zero, etc.
I added in the signature the characters that I think needed more support, and offcourse Lip is one of those. I slighty wanted Bowser Jr. but he was very low in the chart (especially because if he used the paintbrush, it would have lowered the chances for Adeleine), and actually that's the only newcomer that I slighty like, maybe pacman too.
But from my list, the only characters with decent chances of being in are Karate Joe and Jill & Drill Dozer, one because is a Rhythm Heaven rep (but since some leaks were proved true/credible, Chorus Kids are more likely, unfortunately), the other because actually she is in the same state as Isaac, assist trophy who has to be seen in the new game yet (also, she's another female protagonist character and has unique gameplay potential).
I don't want to give up, but I would be surprised if Lip is playable at this point... even as assist trophy her chances are low -.- I'd be happy with a trophy, and the same goes for Adeleine, Geno, and many other of my requested characters.
I'd want at least one of my most wanted characters in as playable though.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah I hope that the Ice Climbers are back too.
To be honest, I'm a Lip supporter, but she's is in the lower part of my list of the most wanted characters.
I want her, don't get me wrong, but I'm already fine with the fact that she already has been represented in the game, in several ways, even if the actual character does not appear.

I have more wanted characters than the ones I added in my signature, characters such as Vaati, Geno (even if it doesn't make much sense in Smash 4, since he is a support character from a spin-off), Black Shadow/someone else from F-Zero, etc.
I added in the signature the characters that I think needed more support, and offcourse Lip is one of those. I slighty wanted Bowser Jr. but he was very low in the chart (especially because if he used the paintbrush, it would have lowered the chances for Adeleine), and actually that's the only newcomer that I slighty like, maybe pacman too.
But from my list, the only characters with decent chances of being in are Karate Joe and Jill & Drill Dozer, one because is a Rhythm Heaven rep (but since some leaks were proved true/credible, Chorus Kids are more likely, unfortunately), the other because actually she is in the same state as Isaac, assist trophy who has to be seen in the new game yet (also, she's another female protagonist character and has unique gameplay potential).
I don't want to give up, but I would be surprised if Lip is playable at this point... even as assist trophy her chances are low -.- I'd be happy with a trophy, and the same goes for Adeleine, Geno, and many other of my requested characters.
I'd want at least one of my most wanted characters in as playable though.

I agree. I want Lip, but she's on the low end on my list. She's within my Top 10, but that's not saying much. I do want her playable, but it wouldn't bother me if she's left out too much because I wasn't expecting her that much.

 

[Loïc]

So I guess I'm one of the few that has Lip at the top of their wanted list (well technically she's 2nd but, my first was already deconfirmed). For some more sketch practice earlier, I decided to draw Lip again.

Spoiler

I changed the way I draw her outfit to resemble her original appearance, as opposed to my previous more detailed versions. What do you guys think?

Also, as a bonus

Spoiler

It's a Captain Rainbow reunion! ...Sort of. Little Mac's rather happy about being playable, Takamaru's a bit distraught about being an assist trophy, and Lip is optimistic about her fate. Idon'tknowIwasbored

 

[JaidynReiman]

So I guess I'm one of the few that has Lip at the top of their wanted list (well technically she's 2nd but, my first was already deconfirmed). For some more sketch practice earlier, I decided to draw Lip again.

Spoiler

I changed the way I draw her outfit to resemble her original appearance, as opposed to my previous more detailed versions. What do you guys think?

Also, as a bonus

Spoiler

It's a Captain Rainbow reunion! ...Sort of. Little Mac's rather happy about being playable, Takamaru's a bit distraught about being an assist trophy, and Lip is optimistic about her fate. Idon'tknowIwasbored

Lip is my most wanted retro/forgotten character. I think she deserves a slot on the roster due to her history with Smash Bros., but I definitely don't see it all that likely right now...

 

[N. Onymous]

It looks like you draw her with gloves almost, Loic. If you wanted to draw her more like her original outfit, her hands are bare and she wears pink bracelets.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who has Lip as my most wanted. I'm gearing up for disappointment, but yeah, anything's possible. (Assist trophy, pleeaassse?)

 

[Souldin]

So I guess I'm one of the few that has Lip at the top of their wanted list (well technically she's 2nd but, my first was already deconfirmed). For some more sketch practice earlier, I decided to draw Lip again.

Spoiler

I changed the way I draw her outfit to resemble her original appearance, as opposed to my previous more detailed versions. What do you guys think?

Also, as a bonus

Spoiler

It's a Captain Rainbow reunion! ...Sort of. Little Mac's rather happy about being playable, Takamaru's a bit distraught about being an assist trophy, and Lip is optimistic about her fate. Idon'tknowIwasbored

Lip is my most wanted newcomer out of a good 50 characters, it's merely the fact that I'm currently more concerned for the potential removal of a veteran character. The only reason my 2nd most wanted, Ridley, is equal in terms of want at the moment for this SSB is simply due to the lack of heavy weight newcomers which isn''t exactly a criteria Lip could fill. Otherwise, Lip is still my most wanted newcomer.

Also, love your drawings. Perhaps it due how their sketches, but the rough lines around Lip's hair and parts of her clothes give her a slightly rugged appearance, giving off a tom-boyish impression that is rarely seen in most drawings. I mean, she's said to be a bit of a tom-boy but her appearance doesn't match up to one for the most part, but yours does manage to give the sense of one.

 

[Loïc]

It looks like you draw her with gloves almost, Loic. If you wanted to draw her more like her original outfit, her hands are bare and she wears pink bracelets.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who has Lip as my most wanted. I'm gearing up for disappointment, but yeah, anything's possible. (Assist trophy, pleeaassse?)

Oh, she IS wearing gloves. I honestly forget to not draw them this time haha. I'll be sure to keep the bracelet thing in mind next time!

Lip is my most wanted newcomer out of a good 50 characters, it's merely the fact that I'm currently more concerned for the potential removal of a veteran character. The only reason my 2nd most wanted, Ridley, is equal in terms of want at the moment for this SSB is simply due to the lack of heavy weight newcomers which isn''t exactly a criteria Lip could fill. Otherwise, Lip is still my most wanted newcomer.

Also, love your drawings. Perhaps it due how their sketches, but the rough lines around Lip's hair and parts of her clothes give her a slightly rugged appearance, giving off a tom-boyish impression that is rarely seen in most drawings. I mean, she's said to be a bit of a tom-boy but her appearance doesn't match up to one for the most part, but yours does manage to give the sense of one.

D'aw, thanks! And I agree, the Ice Climbers not being in the game is a pretty big deal but who knows? Maybe they're not cut after all. It seems odd that they would be cut in the first place, outside of the apparent hardware issues the development team was having with them.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, even though I'm still a bit miffed about the whole overrepresentation of the Mario franchise (and another KI character, really?) I've kinda come to accept Dr. Mario. I mean, it's a pretty fun puzzle game and if Doc is closer to his SSBM counterpart and has the Mario Tornado as his down-B (seriously, screw FLUDD), he has potential to actually become a main of mine.

But whatever, regarding Lip...

Spoiler: I tried...

And having said that, I give up. The whole rigging thing isn't for me. As for the stage, don't expect to see it either. Exporting the model just gives me errors I don't know how to fix. And before you guys ask, yes, I did try to ask for help, but no answers. In fact, apparently, if you aren't a big name already, you tend to get ignored from my experience... I guess people don't care as much about custom retro models as I thought and prefer to see the 50th sports princess import instead. Well, maybe I'm exaggerating a little, but point stands.

Whatever, no one wants to see me whine, haha, so long story short, I simply don't have the motivation for all this Brawl stuff anymore, for reasons stated above. I'll still keep my models, in case someone, someday might actually ask me for them. Don't expect to see anything new Brawl related from me anymore, though. I wasted enough time when it comes to that game already.

That's a little rich coming from the most passive aggressive poster here, but I didn't come to argue. There's been enough discussion elsewhere as to why the select screen shown, minus the Mii Fighters, is the retail roster. If you guys want to argue right to the bitter end, so be it.

If anything, I'm too empathetic because it's literally painful to me to see people talking like Mewtwo, Ridley and K. Rool (let alone Lip) are just right around the corner, knowing how imminent their disappointment is.

Passive aggressive? Please tell me how I am like that according to you. The fact you say we think "Lip is right around the corner" just shows that you're missing the entire point. Seeing that All-Star is locked hints at the fact that not all characters are shown yet. Is it for certain? No, but neither is the fact that this is the entire roster. It goes both ways and we won't know until the game is released. No one here said "Lip's just right around the corner", actually, most people here already think the opposite. As for me, I don't even care if we get more characters or not, but don't go around saying that this is the final roster with 100% certainity when there's no evidence. That's the entire point.