Project M Social Thread

[FSLink]

Well if this project is keeping the Melee "spirit", might I suggest using texture hacks to make characters look like they belong in Melee? There's a few good ones for veterans like Mario, Marth, etc, and some based off their Melee trophies like Metaknight and Dedede.

Or perhaps texture hacking the character selection screen to have Melee-style icons or a black background or something.

I dunno, it's just with all the projects going around (Brawl+, Brawl-, BBrawl, and now this), it'd be nice if there was more visual distinction between them. That's just my two cents.

 

[Wavedash Master]

My memory may be incorrect, but I believe that somewhere there was mention of a code that allowed even soft presses to trigger the shield. This wouldn't allow for light shielding, but it would make the game more responsive to shield inputs. Just thought I'd mention that such a code might be feasible, if you guys are interested in it.

Even if lightshielding might not be possible, can this possibly be applied for L-Cancelling?

 

[DarkDragoon]

xD I was expecting MCancels from back in the day...

D: Can Melee 2.0 have Mewtwo in it?
-DD

 

[Deleted member]

Ugh this needs to be released soon. I love B+, but this game could just...UGH THANK GOD SOMEONE IS MAKING THIS.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Well if this project is keeping the Melee "spirit", might I suggest using texture hacks to make characters look like they belong in Melee?

...Bleck, no thank you. -.o

Or perhaps texture hacking the character selection screen to have Melee-style icons or a black background or something.

Now THIS would be cool. :3

 

[Shell]

Not to sound like a typical brawl hater but why not just play melee?

Many of us in the workshop love to tinker. Perhaps so much so that it can be detrimental to projects that need to stay constant for a while to mature, i.e. Brawl+.

This project is in many ways an outlet for that passion, a way to explore the limits of the brawl engine and at the same time hopefully develop coding techniques that can trickle down into more mainstream projects if they want them (see AD injection methods already in this thread).

For right now, anyone that's skeptical is better off just enjoying Melee itself... however, as the core engine solidifies you may actually find this to capture many of the things you liked about it while giving it a fresh coat of paint in the form of characters, stages, balance, etc.

Personally, I'm still making plenty of new discoveries in Melee all of the time, but for older players especially this could be a fun new diversion.

---------------

On another note, feel free to make feature requests, but check the OP and read through the topic to keep repeated ideas to a minimum, please. Thank you.

---------------

@DD - When your Mewtwo gets a model etc. and is all polished up I think it would be an excellent addition.

 

[D.B.K.]

Any chance of Pichu, Roy or Doc getting in as well later on?

 

[mercy]

Cool, now I just have to learn to wavedash

 

[Kuraudo]

I wish you guys the best of luck with Project M.

But... This game won't have Melee Ganon, in appearance or epicness. I'll stick to my Melee.

And no, I'm not mocking the project or anything. Just wishing for the best outta this. I'll be watching how this comes along. :D

 

[Shell]

Kuraudo, you have no idea what's coming. No idea.

Melee Ganon custom animations, physics, and moves so far... maybe even model tweaks in the future.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I can't wait to see murder fist returned to its glory days.

 

[Kuraudo]

But...but he'll still be fat and not as epic as OoT!Ganon, won't he? They'll be model tweaks, but will it be the same one we know and love, through and through?

 

[DaiAndOh]

I know this is mostly a fun project, but a part of me is worried that this will go further to split community and that it won't get noticed seriously by most melee players. Ah well. Some suggestions though!

I guess for a small suggestion about new Brawl characters, would be to give Lucas DJC. MAYBE Lucario? Mostly because Mewtwo had it. I'm not sure how well Lucario would synergize with it, but dair sounds like it could be exciting.


Wolf can also have his shine jcable. What you want to do with his Waveshining, anyone's guess, if Falco is getting his shine back. Maybe give him B+ Falco's shine in terms of knockback style? Either way, I'd say though he should fall at a similar speed.

In melee style, perhaps remove tripping as an effect from an attack?

Try to make more things like Wolf and Diddy short hop b's more viable? Ivysaur's Side B sounds like it could be good for this as well.

If you could make Link's super jump glitch comeback! More realistically, make bomb jumping a more viable tactic for him.

Charizard can get flame cancelling!

Mario can get cape turning people around on block!

Crouch cancelling attacks?

Samus super wavedash? Nah sounds kinda hard. How about...EXTENDER?!?!?

 

[angelbless]

This looks promising

 

[Turbo Ether]

Try to make more things like Wolf and Diddy short hop b's more viable? Ivysaur's Side B sounds like it could be good for this as well.

Wolf Short Hop Blaster autocancel, like Fox and Falco please. PLEASE! He would've been top tier in vBrawl if he had this.

 

[phi1ny3]

Lucario dair already DJ cancels pretty much.

Which brings me to my next question, in the ruleset, are we going to keep Lucario or M2? Because as much fun as M2 is, I really like the unstable gameplay Lucario brings with the aura factor (plus M2 wasn't given much justice in Melee, he was more like "loltwo").

If Lucario stays, then we're going to need to lower the cap like in B+, since he definitely isn't going to live and he's going to be pretty bad if it's stretched across that range of %.

Either way, this is a REALLY cool idea.

 

[sffadsad]

Out of curiosity, how much of this project will focus on reverting things back to melee status and how much will focus on adding some new tweaks? Maybe a better question would be is this going to be something like Melee+ with everything going back to Melee style with balance tweaks and new characters edited to fit the old style?

 

[5ive]

i was eating dinner.

then i imagined of Pikachu wavedashing out of a QAC.

im hyped.

ofc

 

[humble]

We need a god**** clone engine, thats what we need. I like every char in brawl, and I think we all can agree that some of the new chars are just as awesome; Eldrians Zero and the like, Mewtwo and the others. Who is working on the clone engine still, and can we get more active coders working on it, as if we had one then my brawling experiance would be close to complete (just need this and model injector, and then I'm good)

 

[superyoshi888]

If we get a clone engine that works would Pichu be considered? Lol, I know that the possibility of Mewtwo bumps the number of Pokemon characters already a little on the high side, but right now Pichu+ has even more depth than most Brawl characters, probably even moreso than some Melee characters thanks to Discharge(that's how the cool kids say electric aura) and Self-Damage working side by side.

....Of course, I highly doubt that would ever happen. Still, with or without Pichu Project M is shaping up to be very nice. The thought of Melee Ganon techchasing with Flame Choke makes fill to the brim with glee.

 

[shanus]

I don't plan on replacing any existing characters.

If a suitable clone engine was released with additional character slots on the CSS< yes I would consider M2, doc, roy, etc.

 

[shanus]

I know this is mostly a fun project, but a part of me is worried that this will go further to split community and that it won't get noticed seriously by most melee players. Ah well. Some suggestions though!

I guess for a small suggestion about new Brawl characters, would be to give Lucas DJC. MAYBE Lucario? Mostly because Mewtwo had it. I'm not sure how well Lucario would synergize with it, but dair sounds like it could be exciting.


Wolf can also have his shine jcable. What you want to do with his Waveshining, anyone's guess, if Falco is getting his shine back. Maybe give him B+ Falco's shine in terms of knockback style? Either way, I'd say though he should fall at a similar speed.

In melee style, perhaps remove tripping as an effect from an attack?

Try to make more things like Wolf and Diddy short hop b's more viable? Ivysaur's Side B sounds like it could be good for this as well.

If you could make Link's super jump glitch comeback! More realistically, make bomb jumping a more viable tactic for him.

Charizard can get flame cancelling!

Mario can get cape turning people around on block!

Crouch cancelling attacks?

Samus super wavedash? Nah sounds kinda hard. How about...EXTENDER?!?!?

Samus SWD is trivial compared to extender lol

I had similar thoughts of my own, but I'll need to test out some of these are they are very easy to make. In particular, wolfs autocancelled gun with 5 damage might get particularly scary, but I'll worry about balance later ;-)


I haven't made decisions on crouch cancelling, it would actually be very hard to make so I was almost considering giving it an almost super weak heavy armor, but i don't know.

 

[[TSON]]

...Err... How did you get IASA on Bomb-explode working? <_>

Could be useful to know. :3

 

[shanus]

...Err... How did you get IASA on Bomb-explode working? <_>

Could be useful to know. :3

It's not a very different method than B+ uses, its just IASA during morph ball for downB, not during explode only.


Also people, MAJOR REQUEST:



Can players provide detailed changelists from melee to brawl for a few characters i haven't programmed yet? I would like SuperDoodleMan's frame data at minimum for key different moves and all aerials. This doesnt mean im replicating them exactly, i just like to make informed decisions on what to use / not use.

Yoshi
Link
Peach
Opinions on Marth's Shieldbreaker?
Kirby

Additionally, I would love to know some of the exact intricacies of certain ATs such as float cancel. I wasn't a peach main in melee (falco main, falcon secondary among others), but I don't admit to being extremely knowledgeable as to exact peach mechanics (I played against one every day, but I couldn't play as her at all).

 

[[TSON]]

When Peach is in the air, a good distance off the ground, perform a desired air move, then right before landing, hit up on the joy stick to float for about 1/2 a second or so, and then land. This does the exact same job of an L-cancel, and reloads Peach's normal stance just as fast.
[...]The Float-cancel will reduce the lag of ALL of Peach's aerials to 4 frames instead of individual frames of lags for each aerial 8and much bigger than 4 for that matter).

In other words:

You attack while floating, then fastfall out of the float and land while the attack is still going on. Where there used to be a customized landing animation, there is only thelight landing animation.

 

[shanus]

When Peach is in the air, a good distance off the ground, perform a desired air move, then right before landing, hit up on the joy stick to float for about 1/2 a second or so, and then land. This does the exact same job of an L-cancel, and reloads Peach's normal stance just as fast.
[...]The Float-cancel will reduce the lag of ALL of Peach's aerials to 4 frames instead of individual frames of lags for each aerial 8and much bigger than 4 for that matter).

In other words:

You attack while floating, then fastfall out of the float and land while the attack is still going on. Where there used to be a customized landing animation, there is only thelight landing animation.

Useful stuff. However, since she is FFing, it might use the hard landing lag animation instead, hence 4 frames of landlag

 

[grim mouser]

Wow, this looks great. With B+ and this, there could be many successful tournaments.

A major part of Melee was the DI system- is there any plan (or even any way) to change/strengthen Brawl's DI system for this project?

 

[Maximoff]

Can players provide detailed changelists from melee to brawl for a few characters i haven't programmed yet?

Peach

Nerfs from Melee to Brawl:
- Her DSmash has less range, less knockback, and makes less damage
- Her Dash Attack is weaker
- Aerial movement decreased (a lot)
- Her second jump is way much shorter (the shortest in the game)
- Turnips disappear when they hit a shield or an attack
- FThrow knockback decreased considerably
- Can't Float Cancel
- Can't Double Jump Cancel

Buffs from Melee to Brawl
- Her Dash Attack hits twice
- Aerials have less lag
- Parasol covers more vertical and horizontal distance and has better knockback
- Larger chances of pulling an item when using Vegetable
- Toad comes out quicker, lasts longer, and has better knockback
- UTilt is a disjointed hitbox, and has a much larger hitbox (it used to be a headbutt)
- Peach Bomber covers more distances, and releases hearts instead of an explosion (purely cosmetical)

 

[GreatFalco]

This project is interesting. Guys, if you really want to make all characters as deep as melee tops, you are trying to do the best fighting game ever.

The idea Hypes me out, but this development is gonna be slow, even working always over great ideas.

Good luck on evolve Melee, hope I can help on something sometime.

 

[clowsui]

Wow, this looks great. With B+ and this, there could be many successful tournaments.

A major part of Melee was the DI system- is there any plan (or even any way) to change/strengthen Brawl's DI system for this project?

brawl does not need any strengthening of DI >___> seriously

 

[shanus]

Nerfs from Melee to Brawl:
- Her DSmash has less range, less knockback, and makes less damage
- Her Dash Attack is weaker
- Aerial movement decreased (a lot)
- Her second jump is way much shorter (the shortest in the game)
- Turnips disappear when they hit a shield or an attack
- FThrow knockback decreased considerably
- Can't Float Cancel
- Can't Double Jump Cancel

Buffs from Melee to Brawl
- Her Dash Attack hits twice
- Aerials have less lag
- Parasol covers more vertical and horizontal distance and has better knockback
- Larger chances of pulling an item when using Vegetable
- Toad comes out quicker, lasts longer, and has better knockback
- UTilt is a disjointed hitbox, and has a much larger hitbox (it used to be a headbutt)
- Peach Bomber covers more distances, and releases hearts instead of an explosion (purely cosmetical)

Thank you. I think I figured out how to program float cancel, and I'll work on that + adding DJC to her this weekend. I'm not sure i can modify turnips since they are in common3.pac (I think), but if we ever do figure out how to modify them I will.

 

[DaiAndOh]

More things I thought of:

Ganondorf fsmash send vertical. But I'm sure you thought of this...

On Marth's model, sword get longer? Though you'd probably have to redo all his hitboxes...

Ice Climbers get roll and spotdodge desynch back? And some old power, but I would really like the first, they were very essential to me as a Melee IC main in my playstyle.

Luigi gets the old fair back! Please re-add the sound effect for it to, I loved Luigi's old chop. Don't make his down b stupidly hard to do though.

Speaking of which, if Mario gets the old down b back, he needs to fly up a bit too!

Though I realized with my tripping idea...diddy...ok scratch that idea I guess. Unless you guys have some kinda all new down b for Diddy planned to blow our minds.

For a hype vid, make a powerthirst vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH4sUrQAabY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx5JZOTCisY

 

[shanus]

ICs are kind of the end of the to do list, they will be extremely complex to tackle. I'm kind of worrying about them last as the method of their interactions via code is still poorly understood.

Regarding mario and his dair, it's a mixed bag. I have two files right now, one with his melee downB and dair and one that is not, and I'm not sure which direction we are aiming to take. We are not trying to make identical clones of melee in some cases, just bringing back a lot of the root abilities we so loved.

For example, I'll share Falco's changelist. Note that his Fair is still his brawl fair. It actually has surprising utility with his melee shine. We call this artistic creativity in that this after all, Melee 2.0, and not an identical melee clone.

falco:
•	melee shine
•	melee nair graphic and range, [.8x graphic length] after frame 3 to bring total frame count to 49
•	melee utilt
•	dtilt tip bottom hitbox KBG raised, non-tip KB lowered
•	uair, hits twice now (weak then stronger), strong hit KBG dropped, sourspot removed, slash hittype
•	upB, final KB raised, angle 90
•	upsmash – KBG dropped, BKB raised
•	Dair sourspot is now a weak spike (need to find variable controller for meteors again)

 

[BSP]

Looks pretty cool.

 

[Evilagram]

Are most of the changes in the OP changes to the .pac or additional codes?

I'd love to get my hands on some of the codes involved, but I don't suppose you're releasing any of that.

 

[GreatFalco]

That changelist is from vBrawl or from Brawl+?
I'm guessing it's from vBrawl, if so, what about Falco's lasers? Does Falco SHDL? 'Cause that'd be awesome, but broken.

 

[xDD-Master]

I tell you ONE thing:

Release only ONE Version EVER (Or at least only 1 per year) and it will NOT FAIL.

It doesnt matter if it isnt completely balanced or stuff like that, but it IS IMPORTANT that there is only one true version for everyone, so that everyone plays the same.

I can tell you the sucess of Brawl+ in Germany, it was like this: Brawl+ 4.1 was released, it was til then maybe the best Version idk. We started to make tourneys, Fox and Sheik were totally broken but that doesnt truely matter'd, everyone had a lot of fun in this. Then there came bugfixes und new stuff, newer versions were released some people downloaded them, and finally everyone had another version and it wasnt funny anymore because you always had to play a different character -.-

So I hope you will only release one big Version, for this year or better for two years!


Other than that:

THIS. WILL. BE. ÄPPIK!


Btw. I'm curious about how Snake will fit into this.

I would like to help making him faster and stuff, but idk, his moveset is hard to make quicker.
Anyway I have some Ideas:

• Nikita -> Start-Up and Ending Lag must be shortened a lot. (Nikita itself must also be quicker (x2.0 I would say)
• Grenade Throw must be quicker.
• DSmash -> Less Start-Up and Ending Lag, maybe removing it's possibilty to charge it, but making it anyway a bit stronger.
• Aerials must be some kind of quicker (x1.25 to x1.5 duration)
• FSmash must be quicker.
• UpSmash must be a bit quicker.
• More Gravitiy (?) - I mean that he falls quicker.
• A bit more horizontal Aerial Movement.
• Tilts having a bit less ending lag.
• Grab also a bit quicker.
• Down-B Explosion (When C4 is lied/Stickied) should be quicker, halfen the time imo.
• Cypher could be some sort of quicker, especially the start-up momentum gain.
• Snake should may also run a bit quicker

That's all I can think of now. Hopefully Snake won't completely fail, but without any changes I'm sure he would.

 

[shanus]

That changelist is from vBrawl or from Brawl+?
I'm guessing it's from vBrawl, if so, what about Falco's lasers? Does Falco SHDL? 'Cause that'd be awesome, but broken.

No, its built off of B+ falco (hell i was the one who programmed SHFFL for him )


Regarding snake, he is insanely good in the current build, without alterations.

His main scary points are that he can use WDs to pick up dropped nades, and due to the new mechanic of aerial glide tossing, can do momentum based nade approaches and retreats

 

[xDD-Master]

Regarding snake, he is insanely good in the current build, without alterations.

His main scary points are that he can use WDs to pick up dropped nades, and due to the new mechanic of aerial glide tossing, can do momentum based nade approaches and retreats

Hopefully this is true, I still cant imagine Snake being good. Overall too slow, aerials dure to long and other than the grenades he has nothing to stop him from getting juggled, well, thats a Brawl problem as well, but the higher hitstun and overall more speed, does make it even more bad for Snake I think. I'll wait for the release

 

[Shell]

The changelist is based upon GSH Brawl+ v1 -- we started working on a bunch of things and then Brawl+ 6.0 (GSH 6.0, what-have-you) was released and redo-ing the pacs didn't sound appealing, although once the changelist is released, if there are specific changes that we want to introduce, we'll do that. However, we are branching off somewhat as character changes go anyways.