Project GENO - MarioDK Demo out

[GamenerdAdvance]

Is it not possible to edit him so as to get rid of his swords and shield? I'm just looking from screenshots here, but the sword and shield on his back really bugs me.

 

[zephyrnereus]

How long does geno boost last? I'd check myself but my disc can't read Toon Link.

 

[Shadic]

Is it not possible to edit him so as to get rid of his swords and shield? I'm just looking from screenshots here, but the sword and shield on his back really bugs me.

By the way, the shield should be able to be removed altogether if you want it to be. Just change the 2nd parameter of the shield's model changer code to 2.

I'm going to try and put it in the next release. I believe the sword must stay, though. Either way, it's gone once model hacking comes out.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

How are these balanced? vBrawl, BBrawl, or Brawl+?

 

[Shadic]

Mine is Brawl+, and I'm pretty sure that Indigo's is as well.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Like the new OP, still need try out the new updated versions.

Also, indigo: Fsmash doesn't work as you intended, at least in the old version; Youcan hit A for the second hit, but if you hit the c-stick right/left twice in a row you get the second hit without A. I don't know if you intended, but it makes it alot easier to get the second hit, I don't know if this is good or bad in your mind, just wanted to point it out.

Doesn't bother me too much. To be honest, the timed FSmash is really just there because it can be, it isn't as if it's an overpowered move when timed or anything. I might consider making there be a longer ending lag after the timed hit, to give some incentive not to use it.

How long does geno boost last? I'd check myself but my disc can't read Toon Link.

It lasts until he lands after the jump. On the ground, it doesn't do anything except give you super armor. I'm trying to make it so that it lifts off the ground.

 

[cuckoos]

Indigo, I just have some cosmetic ideas for your Geno:

When Geno does a Special Attack in SMRPG, a red star is seemingly super imposed over his body. When Geno starts his Special moves for your moveset, how about making him flash red at the beginning of the move? That would be fun.


Also, are you going to join project SMRPG? Maybe contribute your Geno, since it's made of awesome?

Oh hi Shadic!

 

[IndigoFenix]

Indigo, I just have some cosmetic ideas for your Geno:

When Geno does a Special Attack in SMRPG, a red star is seemingly super imposed over his body. When Geno starts his Special moves for your moveset, how about making him flash red at the beginning of the move? That would be fun.


Also, are you going to join project SMRPG? Maybe contribute your Geno, since it's made of awesome?

Oh hi Shadic!

Flash red, hmm...Well I was considering making him flash while charging Geno Beam/Blast. In SMRPG, the red star appears when he uses Geno Boost or Geno Whirl, that's why I made the 'star flash' effect when he uses those two moves.

Regardless of where this project goes insofar as a collab is concerned, I'm going to be sure to hold onto a Geno that resembles his SMRPG incarnation as much as possible, so naturally, it'll feel right at home in Project SMRPG.

Now, onto business...

I've been testing out the new Fighter Geno and I must say that it feels a lot smoother than before. After comparing the two Genos, I was forced to return to my original intention in order to properly judge between them.

WARNING: POINTLESS WALL OF TEXT AHEAD

One thing that has struck me as interesting about the Smash cast is that, in several cases, certain aspects of the character's personality is revealed through their playing style. For example, precise, skill-minded characters (Marth and Falco) tend to have many sweetspotting moves, crazy and wild characters (Diddy and Wario) have unpredictable offensive capabilities, sneaky characters (Snake and ZSamus) have good defensive games, and the megalomaniac, frequently failing but persistant villains (Bowser and Ganondorf) are very durable and have high-risk, high-reward attacks. Oh, and of course, Sonic is just annoying in both areas. Whether a deliberate choice on the part of the game's creators or merely an example of extended morphic resonance (which I will not bother to talk about here) it is always a nice touch when the character's playing style reflects their personality in some way.

BACK TO TOPIC

Anyway, I think that it would be best if some aspects of Geno's personality showed in his playing style. In SMRPG, his role was as the cool-headed, calm voice of reason, and I think that this would show best by making him a finesse-based character with a lot of sweetspotting moves. Two other important aspects from his SMRPG incarnation are his 'glass cannon' style - high offensive capabilities, but weak defense, and his preference for ranged attacks.

Of course, this bias favors most of Cosmic Geno's moveset, since I had this ideal in mind from the start, although looking at it now, there are a few cases where I think I may have failed on this account, by giving him in-your-face, easy-to-hit attacks - specifically, Fair and Bair. I like the range and speed (though not the animation or momentum-canceling effect) of Fighter Geno's Fair, and I may try to mimic those particular aspects for Cosmic Geno. As much as I like Cosmic Geno's 'push' effect, I'm having doubts as to whether it really feels 'Geno-like'. Of course, if any of Fighter Geno is (Geno-like, that is), then it very well could be...

I'm not sure if you're trying to have the momentum-canceling effects, Shadic, but you might want to try using event 0E010200 instead of the 'Character Momentum' event. Character Momentum cancels all momentum and then resets it, while event 0E010200 allows you to add horizontal and vertical momentum, respectively, to the momentum the character already has, which feels a lot smoother and more natural and avoids effects like jump canceling.

Anyway...

One minor gripe I have regarding Fighter Geno is that many of his moves use the same animations, and in many cases, aerial animations and ground animations have been switched, giving him a bit of an awkward, PSA feel. I'm also wondering why he would do a backflip for his Nair and a front flip for his Bair, the former works (insofar as you aren't bothered by it being the same animation as his backflip) but the latter looks kind of weird. The lack of gun-based animations is also surprising...

On a more positive note, I'm taking that Down Smash, it's much better than the one I've got now. You're good at using Frame Speed Modifier, by the way, I've noticed how you've made many animations have different looks by skipping some parts and slowing down others. I'm going to have to learn how to do that better...

 

[G&W X]

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=112912
Just dropping this off~ It has a good Geno beam I would say >3>....*not mine* D-Smash is insanely broken though if your opponent is behind you...

 

[IndigoFenix]

Ermm... Is that even a beam? It looks like he's just blowing up the stage... We'd better do something before this gets out of hand.

Anyway, I kind of thought that my Geno Beam was good enough. I mean, look at the way it looked in SMRPG:

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/9/94/Geno_Beam.png

Doesn't Cosmic Geno's Geno Beam look pretty much just like that?

 

[G&W X]

Well...I was just showing it here because no one mentioned that one and Yes it does look like the original but maybe something of a conglomerate could be added and this geno beam maybe it could become like a final smash?

 

[Shadic]

Ermm... Is that even a beam? It looks like he's just blowing up the stage... We'd better do something before this gets out of hand.

Uh. Yeah. Wow.

I just tried it. It's not very good, to be frank. It's based off my old crappy version, has a ton of glitches, moves that hardly work/look weird.

I mean, I kinda appreciate the guy's effort, but there should be a lot more work put into it. And more original stuff on his part.

Edit: Also, Indigo - Just tried out your new Geno. I can't get the FSmash critical to work at all. Also I agree with Eldiran's comment about the grab range being broken. Maybe around half of what it is now?

Also, your UThrow is awesome! I'm probably going to take that next set.

 

[IndigoFenix]

The FSmash critical isn't that hard once you've figured out the timing - the time opening is about the same as it was in SMRPG (it's right after the first shot is fired). Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is the question.

And I'll fix up the grab range. Now that I know it can be extended, it's just a matter of adjustment. Unfortunately, it's kind of hard to tell exactly where that balance lies (copying from another character doesn't replicate it accurately), so I'll just keep adjusting it until it works.

 

[Shadic]

My problem with the FSmash is that even if I did the critical (At least the sound) I'd hit the opponent with the weak hit first, pushing them away.

Edit: Just saw this -

One minor gripe I have regarding Fighter Geno is that many of his moves use the same animations, and in many cases, aerial animations and ground animations have been switched, giving him a bit of an awkward, PSA feel. I'm also wondering why he would do a backflip for his Nair and a front flip for his Bair, the former works (insofar as you aren't bothered by it being the same animation as his backflip) but the latter looks kind of weird. The lack of gun-based animations is also surprising...

What moves use the same animation? UpB and Aerial DownB, but I think they feel different, and you can hardly see the animation anyways. As for the Bair, it's mostly just due to a lack of animations, although the move-swap looks interesting.

And regarding guns - Also animation limited. I think using the gun animation without the gun is more awkward looking than a few aerial twirls while on the ground.

 

[Fatmanonice]

*__* Need... videos... *goes into a seizure*

 

[Shadic]

Working on that.

Also, with the ability to take moves from other characters, anybody wanna look into putting moves on Toon Link? Something like Zelda's UpTilt would be awesome, but we need a character with similar enough body structure to work.

 

[xepherthree]

Working on that.

Also, with the ability to take moves from other characters, anybody wanna look into putting moves on Toon Link? Something like Zelda's UpTilt would be awesome, but we need a character with similar enough body structure to work.

Well, I don't know how to hack, but I do think that animations from Ness and Lucas could definitely be used(Ness d-smash would be awesome, two explosions), and maybe mario and luigi. I think you may be stretching it with the Bros., but certain attacks could work.
Maybe some moves like:
Dsmash:Ness Dsmash: Twin Explosion(Geno puts down an explosion at the ends of where the yoyo would go)
Uair: Lucas Uair: Star Headbutt(Self explanatory)
Maybe use Luigi's side-b for something. Imitate a rocket punch?

I G2G right now, but I have some other things I wanna say that i'll post later.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Ness and Lucas... Hmm... That might actually work. Of course, just because everybody's suddenly getting into model hacking all of a sudden doesn't mean that it's necessary to do just because you can. Personally, I'd prefer smooth, authentic-looking animations over something that might have a slightly better body positioning but causes the model to shrink or stretch weirdly.

On the other hand, I'd like to see if I could import models to give some of his gun attacks a better look. I never liked the look of the shiny Finger Shot, but does anything in this game have actual bullets?

And what if Geno Blast could be made multicolored? That would be perfect!

 

[xepherthree]

The points I was gonna say before:

Indigo, I have an interesting idea for fsmash. Shadic is right in that it does push people away before the second shot, and that the whole move feels a bit strange, I was thinking that instead of having it be two shots, you should strengthen the move, put a little more beginning lag, and only have ONE shot. The window would be larger, and if you time the second shot right you'd only get one shot instead, but it would be stronger than the other but with more lag.

And shadic, I was testing your geno before, and it's alot better. I mean alot better. XD No kidding, everyone of his ground moves, excluding dtilt, became much better. Less lag on most things, but not too little. All his aerials are good too, I think dair is a little too fast but it's not that bad, and down-b on the ground is much better. I'm personally not getting much from downb in the air, but I may not be doing it right. Still, though, it was a lot better and I had more of a reason to use it than the old one. Haven't tested yours yet, Indigo

 

[LightSpineSonic]

Is there a pal version for this?

 

[Shadic]

No, but it should work, aside from SFX being goofy. I don't have a PAL game, so uh, it's kinda not possible for me to make one.

And shadic, I was testing your geno before, and it's alot better. I mean alot better. XD No kidding, everyone of his ground moves, excluding dtilt, became much better. Less lag on most things, but not too little. All his aerials are good too, I think dair is a little too fast but it's not that bad, and down-b on the ground is much better. I'm personally not getting much from downb in the air, but I may not be doing it right. Still, though, it was a lot better and I had more of a reason to use it than the old one. Haven't tested yours yet, Indigo

Thanks. GHNeko suggested the faster Dair, maybe I'll cut the range on it one blast/orb to compensate for how fast it is.

 

[xepherthree]

Thanks. GHNeko suggested the faster Dair, maybe I'll cut the range on it one blast/orb to compensate for how fast it is.

XD I DIDN'T MEAN THAT!
I actually thought it was too fast, I liked it slower. I haven't played with your geno a whole bunch, but I find the timing to hit with it is really hard unless you're going straight down. I was in training with it, I stood next to the CPU, SH dair'd and I missed, because even though I activated it aove him combined with the fact that it moves in the direction I was moving made it look like this:

Spoiler

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/=Dair Orb
(That took a long time to make XD)

I would either make it go straight down from where you use it, or make it slower so you can have a bit of bigger window to account for the movement. If you do the latter I would recommend taking off one of the orbs, so the hitbox isn't too big and long.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Okay, I've got the next version up. It's nothing too special, it's basically what the previous would have been if I had finished it properly, plus a few slight touches.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/gtmtnzm3ma0/CosmicGenoVersion1.2.pac

The only real changes are the following:

Back throw now works - I copied it (or rather, re-copied it) from what is now Fighter Geno's down-throw, except that it knocks them backwards instead.

Bair has undergone yet another change, this time its ending lag is slightly shorter than before but it has an increase in starting lag, forcing you to plan ahead before using it.

Fair's motion and timing is slightly different, and the 'push' part is much weaker, increasing the incentive to try and land the sweetspot instead of just ramming opponents repeatedly.

FSmash has a much greater window of opportunity for getting the second hit, making it much easier to use, but the second attack's ending lag has been increased significantly, leaving you vulnerable if you miss. Its new form is less like a skill shot than a decision, more like the Link's original double-smash attack. It's still pretty weak for a smash attack.

Up-B now works on the ground... sort of. Not quite the way I wanted it to, but... it makes him go REALLY high, but only straight up in the air. Not sure exactly why it happens... Actually, it looks kind of cool, like Geno's rising up to his home in the heavens I'll wait for feedback to determine whether or not it is easily abused/leads to stalling (it isn't much higher than using all three jumps in a row, so maybe not.)

Grab range has been shortened. I'm not very good at determining whether it's short enough/too short, so I'll wait for feedback on that as well.

His size has been increased to the same size as Fighter Geno's (good idea - he's now about the same height as Mario).

Oh yes, and Down Smash has been replaced with the Nova Shell. Thanks Shadic!

 

[RoyMaster4]

I love the Cosmic Geno, but his B move sometimes freezes the game. Otherwise, it plays great!

 

[IndigoFenix]

B freezes? Are you sure? I've never seen anything like that... Did it happen more than once, and if so, do you know what the circumstances were?

 

[RoyMaster4]

B freezes? Are you sure? I've never seen anything like that... Did it happen more than once, and if so, do you know what the circumstances were?

Uh... it only happened when the first move in the match I used was the Geno Beam, I believe. It only froze my game twice, though.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Sounds like a fluke - sometimes I've seen the game freeze for no obvious reason at all (usually right after loading something new on the SD card) but it works fine after restarting. I'll look into it if anyone else mentions anything similar.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I've love to help out with this project in someway but I'm greatly hindered by the fact that I'm technologically ********. Still, I never foresaw people going this far to put Geno in the game last year. I kind of feel bad for telling a fellow member of the Geno Alliance last year that it was going to be virtually impossible to hack a playable Geno in the game. I wonder if he would have gotten as far as you guys if I had been more supportive.

 

[Shadic]

Probably not. Quite a bit of time has gone into both of our characters, as well considering that we're semi-collaborating right now.

Anyways, I'm trying to come up with some good moves from like, Ness/Lucas, as well as some other characters that may be able to fit into Toon Link's model decently well.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Have you considered using Lucas's PK Fire stance for Geno Whirl or Ness's for a finger shot attack?

 

[IndigoFenix]

Hmm, I wonder how many moveset ideas originated from the Geno Alliance. Maybe some preconceived moves could be used, if they're good...

 

[Fatmanonice]

I still have some movesets saved on my laptop from the Geno Portfolio I took to Kyoto back in 2006. Granted, I don't remember how much they resemble moves that actually made it into Brawl but I'm just saying that I have those resources available if you want to use them.

 

[Shadic]

May as well look into them. Could you post them?

Our options seem to be vastly increased now.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It turns out that they're on my computer at home. I'm away at school but it still shouldn't be a problem to get them. I'll just call my parents tomorrow to ask them to send them to me. They might even be in the old Geno Support thread but good look digging through that mess.

Pardon my ignorance but can pokeball pokemon moves be transfered to playable characters? I was thinking that Suicune's Aurora Beam would make a great Geno Beam for its color, speed, and width. Obviously, it would have to be made significantly weaker but I'd imagine it would be easier to use than trying to make one from effects from other playable characters.

 

[Shadic]

With Brawlbox now, I'm not sure. But I doubt it.

I certainly don't have the technical expertise.

Another thing that I was looking at would be Lucario's Final Smash. That beam is also pretty awesome.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Regarding what you said earlier, Ness and Lucas would probably be the best people to look into for different animations. All three characters are about the same size too so I imagine *pretends to be technical* there wouldn't be as many snags when it came to "bones" compared to someone like Ike.

 

[LightSpineSonic]

Sorry for asking again but ;/ is there a pal version download for cosmic geno?

 

[Baro]

Time to delete model parts. Get rid of that shield and sword! :D

 

[Shadic]

Sorry for asking again but ;/ is there a pal version download for cosmic geno?

Try actually reading.

 

[LightSpineSonic]

I tried out cosmic and fighter geno but it doesnt work and the geno texture doesnt work either. :/