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Pound Prizes

Discussion in 'Tournament Discussion' started by Plairnkk, Mar 8, 2011.

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  1. GOTM

    GOTM Smash Champion

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    Plank, when you run a national tournament, you are wrong; MOST people come for the event itself, not ALL.

    When I was getting better, I used to pay entry and travel expenses to tournaments far from home, just so I could have that experience, play better players, and get better at the game. However, the "good" players (the players that expect to win money), would NEVER travel to these events if they weren't given that chance, and therefore, no one would go because why would they travel to play a bunch of mediocre players? They could just stay at home and do that there.

    If you really want your point to make sense, the answer to the following question would have to be YES:

    "Hey Armada, I'm holding a smash-fest in the US and it costs a **** load of money to enter, plus airfare and hotel, but you're not going to win any money from it, just play some US players, do you want to come?"

    NO HE WOULDN'T ****ING COME. If you're going to make a post and tell me that people pay money to have you run an event, and they don't anticipate some of that money coming back to them in the form of a prize, you're way more of a moron than I thought.

    Why do you think people play money matches? So the other player plays their best. If people were under the assumption that no prizes were going to be paid out, the placings would be completely different. The main reason the bracket even turned out the way it did, was because the good players played to WIN MONEY, and the bad players played to play the good players who were TRYING THEIR BEST.

    Congratulations on running a worldwide friendly.
  2. rhan

    rhan Smash Hero

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    From a moral stand point I think everyone believes (Even Plank) that he owes money to the people that placed well and traveled from afar.

    But from a realistic stand point it's more then likely not going to happen.

    Just because we expected a payout and prizes from Plank doesn't really mean that we're going to get it. IF it's not legally bound to a contract then it's all empty promises until they're fulfilled.

    I give Plank respect for coming to the community and telling everyone what's going on. If he really didn't care he would have just vanished.

    But judgement shall be passed, not by us though. I'm a firm believer in Karma and that everyone will have their moment where they'll pay for what they have done.
  3. ChiboSempai

    ChiboSempai General Ledge Supervisor

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    So basically, this all boils down to smashers cramming in rooms. Smashers cramming in rooms cost us $10,000? I don't see how. Even still, you can not determine what Smashers do with their hotel rooms. Are they allowed to have more than 4? No, but that's the hotel's problem. Perhaps if you got wind of certain rooms crammed with people then you should have alerted the hotel about it so they could look into the situation and force x amount of them out (so they would be forced to buy another room). You also had no say over which hotel the smashers stayed at. They could have stayed at a different hotel for all they care.

    Ok so this confirms it indeed that those are all the charges you got from the hotel, good. So not counting any money charged to you outside of the hotel, you should still have about $5,500 leftover.

    -Entrants who did not attend: You didn't receive their venue fee then or their entry fee. This subtracts how much you made but it also subtracts how much you owe to the players. This makes it even.

    -You say you had no money to pay TOs, but letting the enter for free is giving them money basically lol, just saying. However, this is the exact same situation as above. You didn't receive their venue fee, but you also didn't receive their entry fee. Meaning you owe less to the players (payout wise) and you received less venue fee wise, this balances out.

    -I know about the free passes and mentioned this, but this is minuscule really. Though when you are doing free passes, you really should still be reimbursing the pot to make up for the pass, not fair for the winners otherwise. Plus, you didn't do this intelligently. You gave out a few passes locally right? I believe Mew2King won a pass from Tant's tournament. Mew2King was gonna come either way to Pound to win money and would have paid the entry fees. By not giving out your passes strategically you're literally just throwing money away. Either way, you gave out what - like 8 passes? Lets say 12 max. But oh wait... it's the EXACT same situation as the last two. You don't receive their venue fee OR their entry fee. Subtract the amount from both columns and it evens out.

    ^Note on these 3 points. For the benefit of the doubt lets say venue fee was worth $5 more than the entry fees. So you lost $5 on each person. Lets say 20 no shows from part 1, 10 TO helpers from part 2, and 12 passes given out in part 3. That's 5 x 42 = $210

    -Refunds for setups... How many setups did you get that were not yours and VGBC's? You didn't give a discount at Pound 4 for being short on money right? If you knew money was going to be tight why didn't you say before the event sorry to refund for setups, plz community help me out since money is tight. Either way, you probably got what, like 25 setups max from people? 25 x 15 = $375

    -Supplies money, so uh... hole puncher? lmao. wristbands? what wristbands? I mean yea, there's a bunch of stuff you need, but it's petty cash, no more than $100.

    -You paid for VGBC's hotel room which was a hotel charge. This was on your card and therefor calculated already. If it wasn't somehow, that's what... $350? UHaul is what, $200? idk

    -Paypal takes 2% out, it's a miniscule fee that can be covered from my safe estimates before, but I'll continue to give you the extreme benefit of the doubt here, so 2% of 20k = $400

    -People who did not pay their spectator fee is your fault, whether or not your busy. It can be tough to track I understand, but this doesn't matter. You didn't lose money on these people, you just didn't gain it. The spectators I counted in my initial calculations were ones listed in the OP prior to the tournament, aka ones that paid online.

    -Misc charges, more petty cash. $150 at most.

    So lets add it up:

    $210 + $375 + $100 + $350 + $200 + $400 + $150 = $1785

    Subtract that from the $5,500 leftover...
    $5500 - $1585 = $3719


    SO HEY PLANK, WHERE'S THE OTHER FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS!?
    (approximately)


    So you're not responsible for winners not getting their money? lol ok
    You're the TO, you took the risk by deciding to host the event


    There's the math everyone, calculated with the numbers plank himself provided.
  4. CY

    CY Smash Ace

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    rofl I read plank's post and he seems to be playing the blame game in the entire thing. bro, you were banking on the whole thing to go perfectly with the hotels, with the attendance, the drop outs, etc. In a community that is known to do the things that happened, why would you risk everything on it? Of course people were going to drop out, and of course people were going to cram into hotels. This is your fault for not planning ahead, not theirs. pretty pathetic that the majority of the post is blaming others when most of it should be pointing out your own flaws.
  5. Laijin

    Laijin Smash Hero

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    Sure. He should.
    But its likely not going to happen.

    How do you expect plank to come up with 9k+?
    He doesn't make to enough money from his normal job to come up with that much in any reasonable amount of time. Realistically. It won't happen.

    But sure morally everyone agrees he should.
  6. FortGar

    FortGar Smash Rookie

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    Expected: "Sorry I ****ed up but I didn't run with the money, here's proof."
    Got: "No apologies to the winners, here's my rationalization that what I did was justified, **** you haters."

    :/
  7. S0FT

    S0FT Smash Ace

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    Alright 3, I understand what you are saying.

    I have been looking at this from a business perspective.



    But when you are trying to host a tournament for a bunch of FRIENDS, it becomes tough determining how much to pay for a venue based on how big you think the tournament is going to be.

    The only way to know is by the word of people saying they are coming.

    I guess this will continuously happen when people say they are going to show up, the venue is paid for, and then they don't. The cost becomes magnified at national tournaments, which is what we are seeing here.

    Maybe hosting national tournaments for a community as unreliable as this, is a bad idea, without sponsorship.
  8. Mew2King

    Mew2King King of the Mews

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    I told you he didn't feel bad nor care
  9. Laijin

    Laijin Smash Hero

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    I see Jebailey viewing this thread. haha.
    I'm interested to see what he has to say being a big TO from another community
  10. Scar

    Scar #HarveyDent

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    I totally see where Plank is coming from, I just think it's unreasonable that he's displacing any blame.

    Okay fine, players didn't listen to you say 4 people to a room, but it seems that your expectations were that everyone was going to listen to that rule, and it seems like even in light of how horribly wrong those expectations were, Plank is still standing by them.

    The expectations were unreasonable, the behavior was entirely predictable. To close your eyes and hope for the best predictably leads to this exact outcome, so I don't really like the displacement of blame. I thought the first post Plank made was very respectable, and subsequent posts are sort of meh.
  11. Mew2King

    Mew2King King of the Mews

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    You guys do realize that he's lying to you with almost if not everything he is saying right? I hope you guys read this entire thread
  12. #HBC | Ranmaru

    #HBC | Ranmaru in memory of joshywashy

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    I remember someone saying that we should call the hotel. Why not do that?
  13. Espy Rose

    Espy Rose ~~ѼѼѼ~~

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    How come no one's putting any focus on Chibo's posts?

    There's ~$4,000 unaccounted for.
  14. Laijin

    Laijin Smash Hero

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    Honestly, I'm not sure if they can actually disclose what was on the contract legally to someone randomly calling them.
    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
  15. Albert.

    Albert. Smash Master

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    Keep in mind those are only two or three screen shots of pretty heavy charges.

    there could be more charged in his prior or latter history from the hotel.
  16. Voodoo Daddy

    Voodoo Daddy Smash Journeyman

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    I'm sorry, but I'm sick of this fighting, I'll make a positive post elsewhere.
  17. #HBC | Ranmaru

    #HBC | Ranmaru in memory of joshywashy

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    Voodoo, I don't think you should make it personal... If we go personal, that's when things can blow up and possibly cause the thread to get locked. : [

    Or I don't know if it's already personal, lol...
  18. resTy

    resTy Smash Champion

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    So I take it Plank is gonna quit Smash now...
  19. Scar

    Scar #HarveyDent

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    everyone who knows plank knows that he didn't steal any money at all

    he's broke now and can't pay out winners, he's not hiding money.

    chibo has the right to ask the question based on his limited knowledge of the p5 financial situation but even if plank never answers i still think it's obvious that he didn't steal, he wouldn't do that
  20. ChiboSempai

    ChiboSempai General Ledge Supervisor

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    Plank mentions nothing about other hotel charges, that is it.
  21. DJRome

    DJRome Smash Hero

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    lol, what are you, maybe a year older than me? ive been through this just as much as you seem unwilling to believe. last year my parents lost about 400000 in business loss and about 450000 in real estate equity the year before that. i have been abreast of these issues since i was 12.

    again, i don't care if plank is financially ruined if it's his mistake. why should the winners be punished?
  22. Pierce7d

    Pierce7d Wise Hermit

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    You could've posted before everything was sorted out, at least letting us know there was a problem. Then maybe Armada wouldn't be in such a bad spot. You also said yourself you realized that things weren't going to meet quota, so you tried harder to get more people to come. This can't be done after the tournament is over. Please explain this discrepancy.

    Agreed

    Agreed. Why on Earth would you sign a monetary contract relying on Smashers to act that way is beyond me. I've already stated that I also condemn Smashers who crammed into rooms have stolen from the hotel, and this hurt you, but I cannot understand what went through your mind when you signed that contract. Please be sure to name any TOs you confided this decision in, so I can make sure to question their judgment as well.

    Agreed again. Once again, I've backed you on this point that the community is not faultless. Also, you being forced to pay hotel rooms that people booked and did not cancel is ABSURD. Again, you should not have signed into that contract. Those people CERTAINLY should have been accountable for their own actions. On this, I greatly sympathize with you.

    That does not mean stealing the pot is the right way to go about this.

    Eh, yes I can, because I didn't steal from you. I'm not going to pretend like I'm a better man than you. Maybe a bit smarter, or at least a bit less risky. But that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore your wrongdoing. The fact is, you DID put yourself in that debt. YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SIGNED THE CONTRACTS.

    I wholeheartedly believe this, and do not think you wanted to pocket the money.

    And I hope we all take this as a note that we need to be more strict in these categories.

    All legit as far as I'm concerned.

    This is just foolishness. It was rather obvious to almost absolutely everyone what was going down in the hotel. The same thing that ALWAYS goes down. You blinded yourself to what was going happen, because it wasn't what you wanted. I agree that the community was not correct in doing this. However, I have no intention of ratting out my friends to the hotel, LOL. If the Smash Community is going to steal from hotels, so be it. Why you would sign into a contract with a hotel knowing that we do this, I have no idea. That baffles me beyond everything I can comprehend.

    As for your apologizing, people such as UltimateRazer, who barely posted AT ALL, have informed us that it was impossible to get in touch with you.


    However, that's completely unrelated to the topic, and I shouldn't have bothered going into it. I don't think you're a bad person, despite some very foolish actions.

    Okay.

    I feel sorry for you both.

    I believe that you had good intentions, but your mistakes were more than just this. Defer to my previous posts if you want them outlined. Also, the Smash Community is typically reliable for many things, but what you asked was outside the normal range of things I would rely on.

    If you had just said the bolded part initially, I'm quite sure than very few, if any people would've spoken against you, and you'd have a lot more sympathizers. This simply fortifies my point that you handled the situation poorly. There is a big difference from what you said before (something along the lines of "I payed the hotel with the prize money, and I don't owe it to you/it wasn't yours to begin with) and what you said just now, "The hotel took the money out of my account and left me penniless. Very different scenarios.

    Well, I for one have not once flamed you. Your responses are FINALLY adequate, as far as I'm concerned, but you're singing a different tune now, and far later than we initially expected to hear it. I understand you were just trying to make things right, but by keeping us all in the dark, you made things worse.

    I now see things from your perspective, so try to see things from ours.

    Pound V ends. We're told prizes are coming later
    A week passes, no word, but no real worries
    Another week passes
    Finally, word that you spent the prize money on the hotel. Then you disappear again
    Explosion ensues
    Finally another statement this time defending you against conspiracy accusations. This was good, because honestly if this were some other shady TO, you'd probably be thinking the same thing. Now it's your turn not to pull a Holier than Thou act. Mind you, I believe you.
    FINALLY after such a wait, you explain that the hotel pulled the money, so you didn't have a chance.

    If you would've been upfront with everyone in the first place, the chances of this disaster being averted would've been much higher, and we would've helped you.
  23. Melomaniacal

    Melomaniacal Smash Champion

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    The idea that some people here care more about money than a friend potentially going to PRISON is making me sick. No, things didn't work out well for various reasons, but give the guy a break. He's done all he can.

    PS: Am I the only one who feels a little embarrassed that a large part of the problem was putting faith in our community?
  24. ChiboSempai

    ChiboSempai General Ledge Supervisor

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    I didn't think he stole anything (for his own, I don't mean for the hotel debts) from the very start, just thought he handled the situation absolutely terribly. However doing all the math and seeing almost $4,000 missing, it raises questions. I'm taking every number and fact thrown at me from Plank. After I determined 5500 missing not counting misc expenses, I would think Plank would want to clear up everything to show this he is truly not just taking money (since some ppl have claimed that), and so he gave me the information on the other expenses. However they added up to like $1700, not 5500.
    Even if there is still more I don't know, is it really almost $4,000? There's no way it is.
  25. Pi

    Pi Smash Hero

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    My mother had to file bankruptcy when my father dipped which is why I think it's outrageous for anyone to be wishing it upon someone who not two weeks ago we were praising for hosting such a wonderful event.

    @Chibo,
    if you were his accountant and had access to all his bank records from the day the tournament was announced to present day I could justify you making such claims. But you are not, you're an outside observer with a calculator and an assumption.


    @rome,
    The winners are not being punished, they are just not being rewarded.


    Not at all.
  26. Laijin

    Laijin Smash Hero

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    This.
    Basically my entire logic for standing up for him till this point. Thats why I'm really disgusted by the a lot of people over the last couple of days.
    Sure there are a couple of other reasons though. But thats mostly it.
  27. DJRome

    DJRome Smash Hero

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    keep in mind im not saying his course of action should be to pay the winners first. he should be repaying people back slowly is what i recommend

    of course he can do whatever he wants, but that is what i believe. i don't wish him to be bankrupt but had he picked that course, i would find that unfortunate but commend him regardless
  28. Mew2King

    Mew2King King of the Mews

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    someone should ban 3
  29. Voodoo Daddy

    Voodoo Daddy Smash Journeyman

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    Hey man I'm sorry.

    Peace?

    i'm just frustrated because I'm the only bread winner in my family and I pay my own mortgage, people who know me know what we're going through.

    But how bad off are any of the winners? vs. how badly off plank would be. The fact is there is probably no fiscal way to actual GET this money.
  30. Espy Rose

    Espy Rose ~~ѼѼѼ~~

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    Because CLEARLY, I'm assuming Plank is stealing money.

    Don't be so narrow minded. I'm not assuming anything. I'm just curious.
  31. ChiboSempai

    ChiboSempai General Ledge Supervisor

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    I'm not an accountant, but I've dealt with large amounts of money like this running tournaments, I've been there. I know what costs what, I know good decisions from bad decisions, and I know how to have a good attention to detail. Do I (we) know EVERYTHING? no, we don't know every little detail, however plank continues to give us a lot of information, and it just doesn't add up.

    I'm not even insinuating that he stole money, I have never said that once. I'm just trying to shed as much light on the situation as possible and justify everything so the players can know where the money went, which we still aren't aware of, since there is still money "missing"
  32. Scar

    Scar #HarveyDent

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    Yes. Undeniably.

    And yeah I just re-read the M2K/Jman p4 thing lol, that was so ****ed up. M2K is definitely not lying about that, that was some whack ****, seemed like he had it out for my dude.
  33. DJRome

    DJRome Smash Hero

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    well, plank could give plan of paying people back eschewing luxuries until it is paid back at least in part

    and i will continue to leave my senior year tuition unpaid for lack of money :|
  34. Pierce7d

    Pierce7d Wise Hermit

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    At this point, NO ONE expects Plank to pay the winners. It's unrealistic. We're just stating what is the right thing to do.
  35. Pi

    Pi Smash Hero

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    If this were a couple of years ago when I still some what idolized you as a smash player and a person, looked at you as an inspiration, a technical genius, and a driven individual this might affect me more.

    But as it stands now you're just a naive immature mooch that's been surviving off the good nature of this community for long past his due.

    ty for the sig though.

    @chibo
    when you post in big bold letters 'plank where is the missing 4grand' you know exactly how that's going to be perceived. If you're honestly interested in every expense of the tournament then you need to get in contact with him personally, putting him on blast in a thread where the majority of people are more than ready to believe he pocketed he cash and is in fact a terrible person isn't the appropriate way of going about easing your curiosity.

    If you haven't run a large scale tournament then you can't begin to factor in every cost that goes into running it. And tbh nobody has run a tournament with this much money being put into the cost of running it (for good reason).

    I would like for plank to lay out on paper where every dollar was allocated as far as running the tournament goes, but I don't think anyone is accusing him of stealing money any more so what's the point of crying out about a supposed unaccounted for 4thousand dollars when it's very clear to everyone that he didn't pocket the money.

    You keep saying that you don't think he stole it, so then what more could it be than your curiosity?
  36. Eikelmann

    Eikelmann Ей 22. Она красивая, стройная леди.

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    Really curious what traditional fighter veterans think about this...specifically googlemyname since he's seen the community more
  37. Laijin

    Laijin Smash Hero

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    Jebailey's been reading the thread for awhile now. I'm awaiting a response since hes a pretty respected TO to the SRK community.
  38. ChiboSempai

    ChiboSempai General Ledge Supervisor

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    And even if this all checks out and plank did indeed spend all the entry fees somewhere, that means it cost him $20,000 more or less to hold the event. I would hope Plank is smart enough (especially this being his 4th national tournament) to not host an event that costs 20g's. It's not fiscally appropriate or responsible.
    The first CoT5 venue I looked at (I mentioned before) said $10k. I laughed and looked elsewhere. Just like Plank did for Pound 4. I'm sure that venue was WAY cheaper, even if it was a tad more inconvenient, it was worth it.
  39. GOTM

    GOTM Smash Champion

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    Yo Plank if you stole $4,000, it might not be Oceans 11 worthy, but good ****.
  40. Mike G

    Mike G ███████████████ 100%

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    Pretty sure my family at EMP is hearing all about this by now.


    /sigh
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