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Video Critique Thread

Knut

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
95
Location
Long Island, NY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMDurSTVnAk

this video has about 3 or 4 great examples of when to run off with dair on spacies.

dtilt is pretty nice sometimes. it's quick and it stage spikes. so people are forced to tech it. which can set up for an easier edge guard. i guess you would just want to look out for walljump tech > side b. but you can fsmash that.

and with utilt thing. it happens every so often where utilt just doesn't connect and the opponent gets to grab ledge. usually when this happens, one of 2 things happen..people do a get up attack since they're more or less really quick under 100% or they ledge hop and try and hit you with a move. peach doesn't have the ability to actually utilize her ledge hop and punish in this circumstance though. so she will most likely do a GU-attack (and hers is pretty damn quick with decent range). your best option here is to hold down on the joystick(or c-stick) and buffer a CC. so even while you are in utilt animation you will technically be CC'ing. from here, you can punish the GU-attack with with Fsmash, Ftilt, DashAttack, DSmash, whatever(probably not Utilt though because of start up lag). of course, this all depends on percent, because you will be pushed back different distances from the GU attack.

when you C-stick to buffer CC, technically what you're doing is holding it down, so you Auto-Smash DI down. and CC is basically just DI'ing down into the ground to cut lag from a move. whatever direction you are holding on the C-stick(ASDI) takes precedence over the direction you are holding on the joystick (regular DI). so, you could be running forward at someone by using the joystick, and your're regular DI would be to the right or left, respectively. right after you begin running, you could start holding down on the C-stick and buffer a downward Auto Smash DI (and so while running, you would be CC'ing too, since the the C-stick ASDI takes priority). its pretty cool stuff.

a DSmash cannot come out while you are running, since you need to press down on the joystick (CC to stop the running animation), and then down on the C-stick for this action to occur.

so you can apply this virtually anywhere. like you whiffed the utilt..so start holding down on the C-stick(since dsmash cannont come out while your in Utilt animation). and lets say peach didn't do the GU attack immediately. you could start running/walking away, to re-space out side of GU attack range. all the while, still holding down on the c-stick. basically, its just a way to reassure you'll get the punish. just be mindful of percents and stuff.
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
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Pika?
No, the rising grapple is a quick succession of air dodging them grappling so you keep your momentum from the airdodge as your grapple comes out. Obviously all you want to do is sweetspot, but rising grapple gives you much more range with it.
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
1,389
Location
Atl North
The more I learn about this game, the more I fall in love with it. And that video of Hugs and Shiz was what I was thinking about in my clouded mind when I thought of Falco run off dair lol
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
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Pika?
Pretty good, pretty good.

People should run off and nair Marth more for edgeguarding, **** is too good.
 

Violence

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
1,249
Location
Vancouver, BC
Pretty good, pretty good.

People should run off and nair Marth more for edgeguarding, **** is too good.
The problem is when they adapt and go below you. But then you have a further mindgame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpwsDHR6KV8

^Me during my first summer trying to become competitive

The first edgeguard opportunity, I go for the nair, but he just goes under it. Only use it when they've already used their jump.

On my last stock, I go for a good mixup, you can double jump back on stage after running off to not commit, and it forces them to go low. You can then cover the sweet spot option.
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
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Nov 13, 2011
Messages
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Atl North
Marth is such a dumb character, I enjoy watching Marths get ***** by any said character, unless of course it's another Marth. No offense to Marth players.

Violence, that video:

 

DarrellD

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
527
Ive played tai before and I couldnt remember getting anything off dthrows.
And I REALLY WANTED HIM OFF THE STAGE
 

DarrellD

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
527
Thats if they DI up or in, i dont think anything happens if they DI away. Anyone feel free to correct me, im not up to date on my frame info.

Looking back at the video, tai didnt DI any dthrow correctly so i have no clue what i was thinking lol.

i guess i was trying to be creative?
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
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Question, although simple, it helps me understand things better. If Marth DI's dthrow up he will go perfectly up? And if he DI's dthrow away he will go slightly off and away? What if it was DI up and away, would that mean slightly more up and less away? Is this an example of how DI works?
 

DarrellD

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
527
Yea, thats pretty much how it works. All throws start you off going in a base direction and your DI dictates which way you want to go from there.
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Oh I think I understand my mistake. If Marth lets say fthrows you and you DI away or in, nothing happens. Correct? But if he dthrows or uthrows you, and you you DI away or in, your trajectory is changed correct?

The Puff reference was from something I was reading about Smash DI and that Puffs fthrow is the only throw or something you can Smash DI.
 

Knut

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
95
Location
Long Island, NY
d-throw>dashattack if they DI away at low percents. sometimes if the weak hit of the dash attack hits him, i immediately start holding down because i know a fair is coming, and you can CC Dsmash that (or get a jab out in time to stop his fair depending on percent and his DI, which is really nice because you can either Dsmash, re-grab, or wave bomb if you're feeling yourself), or up b instead if your at higher percents and don't wanna trade hits.
at higher percents it becomes more of a guessing game..will marth DJ or Fair. in this instance like to run at marth and WD in place right outside of fair range, so i have the ability to hit him depending on which he does.
i think at super high percents, dthrow > WD forward Ftilt/ WD forward Nair/ WD forward Dashattack/ SH charge shot all work if he DI's away.
if he DI's in and is above like 20 percent, utilt works. below that he can get a fair out in time i believe. and nair is always a guaranteed if he DI's in, but percent needs to be taken into account, since nair is laggy, and he could come back at you with a fair or something. dthrow > fair is pretty nice too IMO if he DI's in (and sets up for some sick combos).
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
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Feb 17, 2008
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Location
Pika?
When they DI F-throw back into you the go less far forward than the d-throw away. I'm pretty sure you get a follow-up nair or dash attack at high %s, and even if you don't it is way better for pressure considering you aren't throwing him far enough off-stage to do something like grab the ledge. They will have to commit to either a fair to land or a DJ away from your nair, and you can just punish it/the landing when it happens, depending on their option.

#UsedToCircumventingNoCombosBecauseOfBrawl
 

GunPunch

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
169
Location
New Concord, Ohio
Here's some videos from a small tourny i went to this past weekend. Any critique is appreciated! I would like a critique on the match with SilentSwag the most though (other than the fact that I have no DI against his falcon and get horrible knee deaths...). Also, I had more matches from this tourny but another person recorded them. I don't know when they'll be posted.

Also, this modded melee is not mine :( but enjoy the awesome effects/skins and stuff!

vs Sweet (Shiek): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Ns4DUz67Q
vs SilentSwag (Shiek/Falcon): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPhie6muaIY
vs Stro (Link): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oAKarDmu4k
vs Eddie G (Peach): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4FJV94wLYs
vs Dempt (Samus) MM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0YeaMrmIq0
 

GunPunch

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Feb 8, 2012
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169
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New Concord, Ohio
Hmm, the tv that we played on was a little old... it only had the one audio input (the white audio but not the red one). so, i guess that might be the reason. it's not a problem with the upload or anything. sry, i know that having that messed up audio can be annoying :(

EDIT: at least, i'm pretty sure the audio problem isn't the upload or anything i did.... thanks for letting me know though, i'll see if there's anything i can do. i'm pretty sure thats just the way it is though :/
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
1,389
Location
Atl North
Sweet new Samus gameplay!

vs Sweet (Shiek)

I <3 Shieks that don't needle our recovery. I noticed you used more smash attacks than tilts in this MU. Although it seemed to work and you had great reads, every time a smash attack whiffed you got grabbed faired/uaired. I think tilts are a safer option in certain situations, especially since everything for Shiek is free. I'm jealous of how good/consistent you are at missile canceling and short hopping. I noticed a few times you would pressure his shield with jab 1 followed by jab 2. Why not jab cancel a few times, predict a response, tilt? The down/away jab cancel technique is by far one of my favorites.

vs SilentSwag

OMG you got baited hard there in the beginning :awesome: I always strike FD, don't really like that map with Samus. @0:55 you go for a hard read early jump by the Shiek player. I go for the same against a lot of characters, and have had great success against Falcon, Pika, Ganon, and Spacies but for some reason Shieks tend to be more patient and recover low. Nice combo @2:18 :) You have a very aerial Samus and a lot of your shield pressure comes from aerials.

vs Stro (Link):

Sick waveland dtilt @1:59 :) Can someone explain to me how 2:21 was done? Samus like cancels her tether into a really high uair. Looks like a cool mixup! Also you're missile cancels looking good, why am I so bad at something so trivial :urg: I don't have the slightest idea for this MU lol

vs Eddie G (Peach):

You never picked up on her counter attack. He was abusing that. You're movement/neutral game on Pokemon Stadium looks really good :bee:

vs Dempt (Samus) MM:

Dark Samus looks SICK!!!!! IMO this MU is about who has the most patience/better neutral game, given both players are at the same technical skill level. Samus dittos aren't my strong point :c
 

GunPunch

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
169
Location
New Concord, Ohio
Thanks for the critique Robin! Yea, i kinda noticed that i was doing the second hit of the jab and it sucked. I haven't practiced the crouch cancel jab very much, so it's def something i should work on.

i guess i do use smash attacks a little too much. i was reading Sweet fairly well, but that's no reason to throw out smash attacks when i DONT have the read.

wow, i did get baited super hard by SilentSwag's shiek.... Idk. I know i can't stand there and take it, but i probably should've came in and faked him out with a bomb or a waveland or something. idk, i get super aggressive when people get campy... which is probably exactly what they want. hmm, another thing i will now look out for :)

EDIT: oh, something that i just remembered. i ALWAYS get shield stabbed when i'm up on platforms. so, i know that your supposed to light shield (or just not be in that position). but how do you guys do the light shield? do you use z or just let up on L/R? i've been having some trouble with it/remembering it. it could save my life a lot too. and tips would be sweeeeeeet.
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Atl North
Thanks for the critique Robin! Yea, i kinda noticed that i was doing the second hit of the jab and it sucked. I haven't practiced the crouch cancel jab very much, so it's def something i should work on.
I practiced it for a good like 30 minutes just to find the right angle but you pick it up after a while. Then spam it entire games in the next friendlies/practice you get. WD in jab,jab,jab. You can mix it up with ftilt or WD behind them pivot jab jab jab jab lol

i guess i do use smash attacks a little too much. i was reading Sweet fairly well, but that's no reason to throw out smash attacks when i DONT have the read.
Remember don't fix what ain't broken though! Had it continued to be successful game after game then keep with that strategy until your opponent decides to change their game and adapt.[/quote]

EDIT: oh, something that i just remembered. i ALWAYS get shield stabbed when i'm up on platforms. so, i know that your supposed to light shield (or just not be in that position). but how do you guys do the light shield? do you use z or just let up on L/R? i've been having some trouble with it/remembering it. it could save me life a lot too. and tips would be sweeeeeeet.
There's a way to toggle your shield between full and fully light but I forgot the button combo. I'm pretty sure you can just hold R and then it's some button input. It's cool because you can spam it and your shield goes from very light to very hard instantly.

One thing I have to work on, is when I lightshield near the edge of a platform and get pushed off you go immediately into a tumble. I need to think of this ahead and throw out an aerial to stop my opponents advances.
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Denmark
I watched your set vs. SilentSwag, here's some general things:

Jump less vs. Falcon. Stuffing his approach with a nair can be very, very good, but it's quite a gamble. If he just waits it out, you're in a very bad position.

Stay mobile. You often just stand there and hope to crouch cancel something into dsmash. It won't work too well vs. Sheik or Falcon.

Use more dtilt, especially against Falcon. It's an amazing combo starter, easier to CC into, and it's just as fast as dsmash.

Grab more when he shields as Falcon. Make sure he knows shielding isn't free. Once you've established that your grab is a threat, it becomes much easier to catch him out of a jump with a nair, catch him rolling or similar.

Use more missiles in neutral position vs. Falcon. Also, FD is, in my opinion, a terrible stage vs. Sheik, as is Dreamland vs. Falcon.
 

GunPunch

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 8, 2012
Messages
169
Location
New Concord, Ohio
Thanks for the advice! I love Samus's aerials so much, i guess i need to start loving her tilts.

I was a little intimidated because he has beaten me a lot in the past and I get really scared to grab against falcons...if you miss then it hurts. I just need to be more confident.

When using missiles against falcon, do you use standing missiles at all? I know you said neutral position, but falcon can approach so fast. Sometimes (not in this match, but in general against falcons) i go up to a platform to start a few missile cancels and he approaches in an instant and gets me with his ******** uair. Should i maybe do a retreating short hop missile? or something safer like that?

stages...yea those were bad. i think i just derped on the FD pick against his shiek. Isn't battlefield a horrible stage against shiek's as well? i tried to avoid that. but yea, probably should've tried for another stage. As for dreamland against his falcon, i didn't know he was going to change characters :( that happened to me twice that tourny: i picked dreamland and they switched to falcon...
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
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Nov 13, 2011
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I think by neutral position he may have meant either player being at no positional disadvantage.

Samus' also don't forget to abuse your leads! If we have the lead by at least a stock or maybe a large percent, they must approach eventually! Don't fall for any bait! It will burn you're opponent and reduce their morale and mindset. They might get over aggressive and lose the game right then and there.

I noticed sometimes against Marth's if Samus has the lead Marth still runs his DD runaway-just-out-of-range game when Samus makes any sort of approach. Let them run a marathon as you bombard them with missiles! Sometimes we over complicate things.

Also, more work being done on the Samus index thread. Hopefully to be stickied :samus2:

EDIT: Also before each tournament, know the rules in depth! Samus vs ICs can change drastically with Wobbling allowed! You should also be aware of what counter pick stages are available to you and please do take advantage of them. All these little things add up.
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Denmark
WD back -> standing missile can be pretty decent, honestly. Not when they're approaching obviously, but just for that additional distance between you and the opponent, lol.

Falling through a platform and shooting an auto cancelled missile is probably the best, for the most part, since you get to move right away. If they shield, it's one of the easiest ways to get a grab, and if they jump, you're in a good position.

SH missile is good too, since it also autocancels.

Grabbing with Samus is always scary, but you kinda have to, or you'll lose against a ton of characters that just shield against you. Even a whiffed grab is decent, because you'll be able to observe how they react to you running towards their shield.

Scare them a little. Let them know it's there, then try different things on their shield. I think you can actually get away with jab a lot of the time right outside their shield grab range, or even jab -> dtilt because they rarely grab right away.

Obviously this is all very vague and not guaranteed, but you usually end up getting an idea of when it's safe or not to grab. Just remember to respect their shield and don't jump at it or dash attack it carelessly. Falcon in particularly has a lot of fast (and strong) aerials he can use out of shield to punish Samus' considerable lag.

Also, something I forgot to mention in my last post: when you do get a grab on Falcon, use uthrow. I think you used downthrow the one time you got a grab on him. It's a lot better than dthrow on fastfallers. Leads into dair on lower %s for tech chases, and nair on higher %s for kills/edgeguards.
 

Knut

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
95
Location
Long Island, NY
your ftilt edge pressure is solid.

definitely work on your up B sweet spot. you died way too much from missing it.

nice spacing on your dangled fsmash edge guards.

don't use your second jump, and then try to come down on someone with dair. it rarely works. he punished you for it a lot. and samus can hit samus pretty hard for stage control when she doesn't have her second jump to maneuver. if you do use your second jump, do what you can to land somewhere out of your opponents immediate range. then work on getting back to neutral.

don't try to rush down samus with dash attack if she has a charge shot. he shot you. a lot.

you get antsy when he has center stage control and get spot dodge>dmashed frequently when you jumped at him or dashattacked, or whatever else. space him out a little more. wait for him to give up space with WD back and claim that space as your own, or wait for him to wiff something then come in and bait out his spot dodge, and proceed to fsmash or grab. (he spot dodges soooooooo much)

personally i like to do very short waveshielding to push my way back to center stage. allows for you to start making ground from the edge, and upb OoS just in case your having trouble getting closer to center stage. also allows for you to establish room for wavedancing as well.

of course dash attack is good too if you need something quick with decent priority. ftilt is good if you need a 'get off of me' move. just don't be to hasty. wd back>fsmash stops these cold.

bluffing the approach to get back to center stage, then backing off and shooting a standing missile or weak charge shot is really good too.

i know i'm stressing the edge pressure and stuff. but basically, to generalize, your recovery really needs work. and i don't mean just getting back on stage, but finding your way back to neutral as well. and imo, control of center stage is EVERYTHING in this match up. but other wise, the rest of your game looks pretty nice. your spacing and pressure look pretty legit as well. just don't second guess yourself as much. you have sure punishes, but jump or shield instead.
 
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