Possibly new falco tech

[PD | Lewd]

Hey Falcoboards,

To preface: I remember seeing a video a few days ago involving M2K talking to Armada during a friendly on Yoshi's Story (remember this stage) about a tech that only worked on this stage. The tech consisted of fox (M2K) dropping from the ledge, double jumping to the platform, wavelanding, and being able to shield before the ledge invincibility ran out. This gave him access to a myriad of abilities including having invincible access to basically the entire platform. He demonstrated this with fox. I was curious to see if it worked with falco as well. Here's what I found.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/vuHch_papYo

Some Basics

A character retains their ledge invincibility for 37 frames whether they stay on the ledge or leave the ledge.
When a character grabs the ledge they cannot let go until frame 8.

Not so basic stuff

Now as we all know, you can get 14 frames of invincibility out of a perfect ledge dash; but what if you could get that on the platforms above the ledge on Yoshi's Story only with less frames of invincibility. Well you can, and I'll proceed to explain how in probably the most convoluted way possible. Forgive me if I do.

Tech 1

Steps

1. Drop off of ledge on frame 8.
2. Full jump either directly up or forward on frame 9 (jumping back yields nothing special; and these two options will be discussed later on).
3. On frame 24 waveland either back, down, or forward (also will be discussed separately later on).
4. After the waveland you have 3 frames of invincibility. These can be used to either shield or execute a jab 1. The jab 1 can be converted into a multitude of things such as jab 1>grab, jab 1>d-smash, jab 1>jab 2>grab or d-smash.

In step 2 you can either full jump directly up or forward. Here are the abilities of the two.

1. Up - Puts you just in front of the outer edge of the side platform (before waveland).
2. Forward - Puts you in the middle of the side platform (before waveland).

In step 3 I mentioned the waveland options. Here they are related to whether you jumped directly up or forward. (Assume all waveland angles are 45° down unless stated otherwise) (for all occasions of Jab 1 for the rest of this section there is a 1 frame leniency; if you are one frame late then the hip hitbox of Jab 1 will come out but the actual arm hitbox will not be invincible. you must be frame perfect for the arm hitbox to come out while still invincible.

1. Forward
   1. Waveland Down - Shield, fully invincible Jab 1 which sticks out to the inner edge of the side platform. Good for converting into smashes or grabs.
   2. Waveland forward - Shield, fully invincible Jab 1 which extends out to the edge of the middle platform. Harder to cconvert seeing as it's hitbox is floating off the platform.
   3. Waveland Back - Causes you to slide off the outer edge of the side platform. Aerials off of this slide are not advised as I have not found a safe way to recover from the lag without a very lucky land on Randall. Does NOT retain invincibility similar to Haxdashing. Waveland Back is not advised.
2. Up (Here's where the fun starts)
   1. Waveland Down - Shield, fully invincible Jab 1. This puts you at the outer edge of the side platform and places the Jab 1 in the middle third of the platform. Good for converting into smashes or grabs.
   2. Waveland Forward - Shield, fully invincible Jab1. Puts you very slightly in front of the positioning of Waveland Down after Jump Forward. Exact options as Waveland Down after Jump Forward.
   3. Waveland Back - Well, this is basically a frame perfect, single stage invincibility refresh. Basically a Haxdash for Falco. It seems as though it could be used through a lot of practice, however it would require very quick fingers and a very quick mind. Here is a link to a video I made. The frame data is in the description, and the instructions are also through audio. https://youtu.be/EcqzBytdmow

Wait you thought that was it? Yeah that's only half.. This is gonna take a while.

Tech 2

Steps

1. Drop off of ledge on frame 8.
2. Fast fall for two frames and full jump either directly up or forward on frame 10 (jumping back yields nothing special; and these two just determine placement on the platform similar to the aforementioned jumps in Tech 1).
3. (This is something I just found, it has been edited into the original post) On frame 28 just before Falco would reset into wait on the platform you can perfect waveland. Now the only positive options from this are jumping forward and perfect wavelanding back, and jumping forward and perfect wavelanding forward. Here's why.
   1. Perfect Waveland Back - When you jump you have two types of momentum input. One is during your double jump or jumpsquat, and the other is after either of the two but before you land. If you hold right while you double jump, but on the fourth frame begin to hold back you get put in an optimal position. If from here you perfect waveland back on frame 28 then you will have 2 frames of waveland lag; it will be cut short from the normal 10 frames by sliding off the outer edge of the side platform while retaining 7 frames of invincibility. This gives you enough time to, with 2 frames of leniency, shine just off the outer edge of the platform. When frame perfect the invincibility expires two frames after you can jump out of the shine. When executed on the final optimal frame then the invincibility expires the frame you can jump out of the shine.
   2. Perfect Waveland Forward - The concept listed above appies here as well. When you jump forward to get as close to the inner edge of the side platform you want to hold forward until you have the ability to perfect waveland. Once you perfect waveland forward you will have 8 frames of waveland lag; which will be cut short from the normal 10 frames by sliding off the inner edge of the side platform. There is no frame leniency here, it is required to be frame perfect to execute the following action. Once you slide off of the platform you have one frame of invincibility left which can be used to shine. If executed frame perfectly then you will be invincible from when you let go of the ledge until the frame after the shine hitbox comes out.
4. On frame 29 Falco will just reset on the platform. This requires no l-cancelling or wavelanding of any sort.
   1. Falco can use aerials (all except up air and down air due to startup and collision point contortion) on the 28th frame, however Falco hits the platform on the fifth frame of the aerials and must be l-cancelled.
   2. A shine may be buffered on the 28th frame, but has no physical effect (it does however cause the invisible shine bug).
5. After the reset on the platform you have 9 frames of invincibility in which you can act. From here you can shield, grab (the grab box comes out on the second to last frame of invincibility if executed frame perfectly; grab has 1 frame of leniency), roll, sidestep, shield drop, Isai drop, shine, execute any (except for dtilt) tilt, jab 1, down smash with full invincibility (by full I mean the hitboxes are out before the invincibility is gone), up smash with full invincibility (by full I mean the hitboxes are out before the invincibility is gone) , and if you can do it frame perfectly you can get the first hit of a dash attack out before losing invincibility.
   1. Tilts - All but D-tilt can be executed (hitboxes are out) before the invincibility is up
      1. F-Tilt - 3 frame leniency (if executed on the last frame possible then only the hip hitbox will be out while invincible and the actual leg hitbox will be vulnerable; technically the leniency is 3 for a hitbox on general, but for the optimal hitbox then the frame leniency would be 2).
      2. U-Tilt - 3 frame leniency
      3. D-Tilt - Impossible
   2. Invincible Dash Attack
      1. On frame 29 you can't be holding forward or it won't work. You must release the stick to neutral while traveling to the platform. Once you reach the platform initiate a dash and on the fourth frame input a dash attack. The dash attack's first hitbox should come out on frame 37. Unsure how effective this would be on platform. There is no frame leniency here.
   3. Here's the best part of this whole post
      1. Invincible Shine Bair (Nair works just as well) on platform from ledge
      2. On frame 8 drop off of the ledge.
      3. Fast fall 2 frames and full jump either up or forward (determined placement on the platform)
      4. On frame 29 buffer a shine.
      5. The shine will go on from frames 30-32.
      6. On frame 33 buffer a jump.
      7. The reason for there being nonjump squat is that since you pressed down on the platform you ended up in the air. If you look closely you can see the double jump ring as you jump out of the shine.
      8. Immediately execute a Nair or Bair (these are the only two who have hitboxes out before the invincibility wears off). The invincibility will dissipate on the frame after the bair and nair hitboxes come out.
      9. Here's a video of me using this tech. The frame data is in the description; it is explained and described through audio. https://youtu.be/ZWLOAnTMH_g

The invincible shine bair on platform from ledge requires, not including grabbing the ledge, 5 frame perfect inputs with no frame leniency.

I fully understand that every tech I have explained in this post is nearly if not frame perfect and would take a person an immensely long amount of time, skill, and patience to learn to implement into their gameplay. It might even be impossible to get to the point to use this stuff in common gameplay, but look how far the game has come techwise over the past 15 years. Why not push it even farther. Also, this is not a replacement to ledge dashing. This should be, if anyone could ever master it, a mix up option. Thanks for reading this, message me if you have anymore questions or if there's something I might have left out.

PD | Lewd


All video and frame data was collected from using Achille's 20XX Hackpack.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...re-alt-stages-costumes-new-debug-menu.351221/

 

[j a y c e]

I really like the sideways video u took

really cool tech mane

 

[PD | Lewd]

I really like the sideways video u took

really cool tech mane

I don't know what happened there I recorded it side ways. As long as you can see it. Thanks man it took a long time to figure out. I added a little something else under #3 in Tech 2 if you wanna check that out.

 

[MattDotZeb]

I've been doing this but haven't been able to get it fully invincible. Just gotta do it better now!!!! Thanks for showing me it's legit

(Not the shinebair, but the waveland)

 

[PD | Lewd]

I've been doing this but haven't been able to get it fully invincible. Just gotta do it better now!!!! Thanks for showing me it's legit

(Not the shinebair, but the waveland)

I'm glad to help out! At least now we know it's possible to be fully invincible on either edge of the platform.

 

[Redact]

This is a different way to use existing tech, not new tech in it's own.

Also I honestly thought this stuff was common knowledge, I've been using it for ages and I stole it from Forward, and he is damn old school.

It's a good write up though, covers the specifics needed for a full understanding.

 

[PD | Lewd]

This is a different way to use existing tech, not new tech in it's own.

Also I honestly thought this stuff was common knowledge, I've been using it for ages and I stole it from Forward, and he is damn old school.

It's a good write up though, covers the specifics needed for a full understanding.

Thanks for the comment! I'm glad we've got frame data finally.

 

[dRevan64]

I think the new part of this tech is the part where you shine on the platform but don't go into jumpsquat when you leave shine - at least, I've never seen that before.

 

[PD | Lewd]

I think the new part of this tech is the part where you shine on the platform but don't go into jumpsquat when you leave shine - at least, I've never seen that before.

I agree, it is very peculiar.

 

[schmooblidon]

Good write up, although the only thing I didn't know about was the intangible haxdash.

Couple things to add to this.

You can perform a perfect waveland from Tech 1 setup. Tech 2 where you describe it as a "reset" is called a NIL (No-Impact Land). The reason you doublejump from the shine is because you perform a Shine Drop, where you hold full down for more then 1 frame during shine, which makes you drop through the platform. Shine Drops are specific to spacies, no other char can drop from B move iirc. Shine drops are also the setup for the Shine Mine glitch.

While we are on falco yoshis tech, heres a cool things he (and a few others can do).

Definitely known, but not widely.

 

[PD | Lewd]

Thank you, and yeah I had figured out the terms and such I just couldn't find the time to edit them in to the OP. Also, in that gif, what is Falco doing? Is he autocancelling the dair on the top plat after the short hop? Does it autocancel or do you need to l-cancel it? Is the hitbox even coming out or would this just be used for movement and transportation?

 

[schmooblidon]

Thank you, and yeah I had figured out the terms and such I just couldn't find the time to edit them in to the OP. Also, in that gif, what is Falco doing? Is he autocancelling the dair on the top plat after the short hop? Does it autocancel or do you need to l-cancel it? Is the hitbox even coming out or would this just be used for movement and transportation?

The dair is autocancelled so it only has 4 frames of landing lag and no l-cancel is required, and no hitbox comes out. You cannot short hop to the top platform, unless you do an aerial to raise your ECB, dair works the best for this. So yeah it's only for movement, but it's the faster way to get to it, and is pretty easy to do with a 5 frame window. You can call this an AI (Aerial Interrupt), but considering there are so many different types of AI, I think it'd be better named a Lifting AI or AI Lift or something.

 

[PD | Lewd]

The dair is autocancelled so it only has 4 frames of landing lag and no l-cancel is required, and no hitbox comes out. You cannot short hop to the top platform, unless you do an aerial to raise your ECB, dair works the best for this. So yeah it's only for movement, but it's the faster way to get to it, and is pretty easy to do with a 5 frame window. You can call this an AI (Aerial Interrupt), but considering there are so many different types of AI, I think it'd be better named a Lifting AI or AI Lift or something.

Wow, that's really useful, and surprisingly easy to pull off. Thanks man, I'm gonna start implementing this into my gameplay.