PM 3.6| Meteor Cancel Window Doesn't Match Changelog

[G13_Flux]

So im not sure if this belongs here, because it might not technically be a glitch, but if it belongs here somewhere else then a moderator is welcome to move it. But the meteor cancel window does not match the 20 frame one dictated by the changelog. You can easily use debug mode to hit someone offstage with a meteor smash, then see when they can cancel it. At the moment, you can mash up b during the fail window, and still successfully cancel after 8 frames. With jump, you cannot mash it, but you can still cancel with a jump after 8 frames.

so bassically the current version has an 8 frame fail window for jumps only, not 20 like the changelog says. for some reason, i feel that this is how the dev team intended it to be, since im pretty sure the 8 frame window thing matches melee, but still, to have the changelog say 20 actually excited me, because i think you shouldnt be able to mash anything, and 20 frames is completely acceptable to me. 8 frames isnt really a lot unless youre under the stage.

regardless of my opnion on it however, the change log doesnt match the reality, and i figured id post it here to make it known.

Edit: above scenarios were retested for a more accurate description of frame data, which are displayed in one of my following posts

 

[Celestis]

I had a meteor cancel that was less then 8 frames, but I never thought anything of it. I canceled the meteor literally on the attack while it was happening. Well, close enough, The hit lag had hardly even ended.

 

[standardtoaster]

What moves did you use to test this @ G13_Flux ? What move did that happen with @ Celestis ?

 

[G13_Flux]

the two that i tested were ZSSs up b and wolfs dair. I should probably test more, but once i got a confirm on two i figured that was enough consistency. with ZSS, i just put them at like 80, set the cpu in training mode to "control," then utilted them and jumped up and paused to debug mode right before i connected with up b. then obviously i clicked forward 8 frames after hitlag then tested. with wolf. i just daired them from the ground near the ledge, which sets up for an easy meteor offstage. then i went to debug mode before i connected, and tested likewise.

 

[standardtoaster]

The meteor cancel window initiates as soon as you are hit. It counts down each frame even in hitlag. This is how it's always worked and isn't actually a bug.

 

[Celestis]

What moves did you use to test this @ G13_Flux ? What move did that happen with @ Celestis ?

I think it was just a jump.

 

[G13_Flux]

The meteor cancel window initiates as soon as you are hit. It counts down each frame even in hitlag. This is how it's always worked and isn't actually a bug.

it still isnt right though, even counting that way. Heres an exact frame by frame of what im doing right now with wolf:

first, dair wario onstage near the ledge at 95%. This puts wario at 110% off the stage, just for ease of connecting with an offstage meteor. wolf jumps offstage and dairs wario. right before the hit connects, debug mode turned on. heres the frame by frame.

1. first frame of wolfs dair. wario hit
2-7 hitlag
8. second frame of wolfs dair, hitlag over, wario in hitstun
9. third frame of wolfs dair
10. wolfs dair hitboxes no longer active.
11-17. hitstun for wario still
18. wario can jump cancel or up b cancel.

Also going by a similar method with captain falcon, wario is able to jump out 19 frames after initially being hit. when i do it with ZSS, he is able to jump out 17 frames after initially being hit. when i do this with ganon, it takes 26 frames until he can cancel out.

i really cant seem to find a pattern here other than the fact that stronger hits mean a larger fail window. Honestly, i feel that you guys should have a couple people on the dev team test this and take a look at it. unless you or someone can notice something that i did terribly wrong in my method of testing.

edit: actually, it seems to be a consistent 10 frames after hitlag is over. thats the pattern im seeing.

 

[Bazkip]

it still isnt right though, even counting that way. Heres an exact frame by frame of what im doing right now with wolf:

first, dair wario onstage near the ledge at 95%. This puts wario at 110% off the stage, just for ease of connecting with an offstage meteor. wolf jumps offstage and dairs wario. right before the hit connects, debug mode turned on. heres the frame by frame.

1. first frame of wolfs dair. wario hit
2-7 hitlag
8. second frame of wolfs dair, hitlag over, wario in hitstun
9. third frame of wolfs dair
10. wolfs dair hitboxes no longer active.
11-17. hitstun for wario still
18. wario can jump cancel or up b cancel.

Also going by a similar method with captain falcon, wario is able to jump out 19 frames after initially being hit. when i do it with ZSS, he is able to jump out 17 frames after initially being hit. when i do this with ganon, it takes 26 frames until he can cancel out.

i really cant seem to find a pattern here other than the fact that stronger hits mean a larger fail window. Honestly, i feel that you guys should have a couple people on the dev team test this and take a look at it. unless you or someone can notice something that i did terribly wrong in my method of testing.

edit: actually, it seems to be a consistent 10 frames after hitlag is over. thats the pattern im seeing.

Am I misreading this or is this different results from what you were describing in your first post.

Actually while we're on this topic, @ standardtoaster how is meteor cancelling supposed to work now? I didn't quite understand from reading the changelog.

 

[G13_Flux]

Am I misreading this or is this different results from what you were describing in your first post.

Actually while we're on this topic, @ standardtoaster how is meteor cancelling supposed to work now? I didn't quite understand from reading the changelog.

Yes they are a bit different. I've edited my op. Its just kind of difficult to determine when hitlag ends for the opponent in debug mode. There's lots of times where hitlag is over for the attacker, but the opponent (wario in this case) seems to float there, still in hitlag. I'm guessing this obscurity is what accounts for the difference in my op to my later post