Important Phantasm Spike!

[Bonk!]

Aside from F-air being an easy gimp, I might've found a small combo that can easily gimp an unsuspecting opponent.

This worked on Mario from 40-80% on FD.
It's pretty simple, just forward throw the opponent off the stage and then short hop phantasm to spike. This is almost a guaranteed KO if the opponent likes to jump immediateley out of hitstun, unless they have a good recovery (pit, villager, etc.).

I see this as useful when you're grabbing the opponent getting up from the ledge, but don't bother against multi-jump characters, ones with good recoveries, or airdogers. The options are seemingly limited, but hey I'm just brainstorming.

I'll record and post a video of this when I have the chance.

EDIT: I've also found that depending on the distance from the ledge, Falco can just walk of the ledge and phantasm to get the spike as well. This killed Mario even when he had his second jump left. The way this is used is really dependent on the opponent's playstyle.

 

[BltzZ]

Aside from F-air being an easy gimp, I might've found a small combo that can easily gimp an unsuspecting opponent.

This worked on Mario from 40-80% on FD.
It's pretty simple, just forward throw the opponent off the stage and then short hop phantasm to spike. This is almost a guaranteed KO if the opponent likes to jump immediateley out of hitstun, unless they have a good recovery (pit, villager, etc.).

I see this as useful when you're grabbing the opponent getting up from the ledge, but don't bother against multi-jump characters, ones with good recoveries, or airdogers. The options are seemingly limited, but hey I'm just brainstorming.

I'll record and post a video of this when I have the chance.

EDIT: I've also found that depending on the distance from the ledge, Falco can just walk of the ledge and phantasm to get the spike as well. This killed Mario even when he had his second jump left. The way this is used is really dependent on the opponent's playstyle.

Aside from F-air being an easy gimp, I might've found a small combo that can easily gimp an unsuspecting opponent.

This worked on Mario from 40-80% on FD.
It's pretty simple, just forward throw the opponent off the stage and then short hop phantasm to spike. This is almost a guaranteed KO if the opponent likes to jump immediateley out of hitstun, unless they have a good recovery (pit, villager, etc.).

I see this as useful when you're grabbing the opponent getting up from the ledge, but don't bother against multi-jump characters, ones with good recoveries, or airdogers. The options are seemingly limited, but hey I'm just brainstorming.

I'll record and post a video of this when I have the chance.

EDIT: I've also found that depending on the distance from the ledge, Falco can just walk of the ledge and phantasm to get the spike as well. This killed Mario even when he had his second jump left. The way this is used is really dependent on the opponent's playstyle.

Great find I have to test this out! I love when the community has input like this

 

[ArhyLis]

I love the sound to this! Will try it out when I get the chance.

 

[Charhazzard]

Anyone test yet?

 

[Bonk!]

Sorry this took so long. I was away during the time I posted this so I didn't have access to my equipment.

 

[WECsoul]

Gonna try it later. I hope there will be more falco tactics like that in the nearer future.

 

[KoeBigS8]

Alright so i've done this a lot online already but what are some really good setups for this? This can be done to some characters at like 40 so I'm really curious

 

[Bonk!]

Alright so i've done this a lot online already but what are some really good setups for this? This can be done to some characters at like 40 so I'm really curious

I think forward throw is probably the most reliable setup. All the other moves just don't put them in the right place or have too much lag.

 

[KoeBigS8]

I find just getting off stage and BAiring them into the wall much more effective but idk ill keep trying to go for the phantasm spike and see what happens.

 

[Bonk!]

I find just getting off stage and BAiring them into the wall much more effective but idk ill keep trying to go for the phantasm spike and see what happens.

Please do! I'd appreciate if you could pick this up for me as I don't plan on maining Falco.

 

[Thor]

I have landed dthrow -> dair when they held in and didn't airdodge - totally unreliable of course but I think dthrow could also be a setup to this - and most people hold away to escape dthrow, so it might be easier to set up? Or it could serve as DI mixup or something if there's no true way to avoid a followup (since if they hold in you get nair or maybe usmash, if they hold away phantasm, if they hold away and airdodge a fair? some sort of combination of reads like this might be possible...)

Haven't tested this particular trick yet, but I play someone rather often who nearly always jumps out of hitstun (he finds it safer than airdodging, and by and large he's often correct - Captain Falcon's superb aerial mobility and great jump height plays a part in this), so if I can get this to work on Falcon I will A) report it here and B) be very glad to see it work, since it will heavily punish this habit.

 

[KoeBigS8]

Alright, so I only find it worth it if they have poor recovery, or if you get launched at 80 and they try to gimp you definitely go for it. But more times than not I'm just using Firebird.

 

[Bonk!]

Alright, so I only find it worth it if they have poor recovery, or if you get launched at 80 and they try to gimp you definitely go for it. But more times than not I'm just using Firebird.

Yes. I said in the video to not bother using it against characters with good vertical recoveries.

 

[Illuvial]

I'm gonna say that you SHOULD still use this tech on characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff and ROB. Why? Because after you recover THEY are the ones that are still trying to grab the ledge. You can Bair them, Dair them, Fair them, you can do so much to them after the phantasm spike that its totally worth attempting on them since you can still gimp them effectively

Its not as readily effective but its still extremely useful against good recovery characters (unless its someone like Pit or Dark Pit)

 

[WECsoul]

Am I the only one who has problems doing phantasm spike (fthrow to the edge -> phantasm spike) in a normal fight?

 

[Bonk!]

Am I the only one who has problems doing phantasm spike (fthrow to the edge -> phantasm spike) in a normal fight?

What exactly is happening for you to miss? Are they getting knocked too far? Are they DIing away? Are they not jumping? I should point out that this is NOT a true combo. It's more of a tool for a predictable opponent. Some characters may have different percent ranges that this can happen at too. Mario is the base of this because his weight is the average of all characters.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I was just checking out the Falco boards and would like to say - be careful while doing this against Kirby. If you DO land it but he doesn't die, if you try to follow up and stage spike him, meteor him, etc. he can catch you in Final Cutter and combo you down, which will send you into the blast zones at around 20%+ or so. However, I recommend trying to use lasers to cover Kirby's options while getting off the ledge, and punishing him for it.

 

[Bonk!]

Good news everyone! Jtails (the guy who beat M2K at KTAR XI) has recently started his exploration of Falco in the wii u version and I contacted him about the tech we found. He saw the video and thought it was cool and says he's gonna try to practice it before he makes his for glory video, so keep an eye out for it!

 

[Jtails]

Good news everyone! Jtails (the guy who beat M2K at KTAR XI) has recently started his exploration of Falco in the wii u version and I contacted him about the tech we found. He saw the video and thought it was cool and says he's gonna try to practice it before he makes his for glory video, so keep an eye out for it!

Hey! I did indeed check it out and practice it, it seems to work most of the time assuming execution is correct. I did however record the for glory video before I read the comment. But I'm determined to go back into it and make a second video, because I want to improve my falco and kinda explore him a bit more.

I have a negative opinion about his viability in the overall metagame, (without custom moves) and I want to learn how to use him in the most effective way as possible. I intend on doing so.

 

[BltzZ]

Hey! I did indeed check it out and practice it, it seems to work most of the time assuming execution is correct. I did however record the for glory video before I read the comment. But I'm determined to go back into it and make a second video, because I want to improve my falco and kinda explore him a bit more.

I have a negative opinion about his viability in the overall metagame, (without custom moves) and I want to learn how to use him in the most effective way as possible. I intend on doing so.

Really looking forward to seeing your progress. He seems grab dependant in this game like most cast members but hey its guaranteed

 

[LiamBarrak1999]

Oh wow! This looks really good! I need to practice using this. I was always wondering what was a good setup for spiking using phantasm.

 

[LightLV]

This is very legit, i've been getting KOs on people by sheer mistake during ledge battles and realized how good it is. If you notice people aren't conservative with their second jump then this is a pretty great option.

Another option is to jump out and FP backwards back onto the stage, or run off, jump and then do it. You're putting yourself out there, but you're guaranteed to end up in a decent spot if you do it right, since a trade isn't really favorable unless you're in KO range. Assuming they hit the stage safely, air FP recovers relatively fast and lets you act. Either way, Falco's Dair is pretty crappy on this game, but FP is easily a move to be respected now. People with less than stellar vertical recoveries can be gimped hard by it.

Even if you aren't hitting with it, you can be applying pressure to their recovery, and you've still got the Bair option as well.

 

[LiamBarrak1999]

So, I tried this out the other day and it worked! And it was pretty awesome when I landed the spike. Thanks for this.

 

[GreatDave]

Of course you have to perform a little (very little) hop before phantasm to use it for spiking, haven't ya?
Phantasm doesn't go off the edge if you perform it on the ground...

 

[LightLV]

Naturally, the stage stops you. You can nearly input the phantasm immediately after shorthopping, it's not very tough to do at all and I believe it's even in one of the in-game tips

 

[Bonk!]

Naturally, the stage stops you. You can nearly input the phantasm immediately after shorthopping, it's not very tough to do at all and I believe it's even in one of the in-game tips

This.
I'm really glad they added this feature not only for fox/falco, but for Ganon, Falcon, Ike, etc. cause I got really frustrated with SDing off the stage with these"dash" moves in melee and brawl. Really nice touch on the devs' parts.

 

[Bonk!]

It's kinda funny... I mean how looking at the view count of my last two videos screwing around in TF2 are put to shame once you look at the phantasm spike video. It goes like 30 to 90 and the like 800 out of nowhere. I really appreciate you guys supporting this to the point of me contemplating on maining falco for smash 4. Thank you and I hope to discover more techniques like this for more low tier characters! I've been toying around and have a general idea for my next video already. The only problem is that I can't play online as of now because I have a new router and need my gamepad to connect to my new network, but my gamepad is dead and missing a charger, BUT I have a new one on the way shortly so stay tuned!

So this is kinda funny. Today I was gonna start making the video for covering the technique about pivot dashing that just popped up on the front page... Kinda ironic. Not exactly sure what my next thing will be, but I looking for things... so look out... for... things...

 

[PMMikey]

That's so awesome I definitely will be doing this.

 

[Snipnigth]

i found something really cool with phantsma strike, when opponent is recovering go of the ledge (dont go too far just dash off or walk off) and use phantasma strike too sweetspot the ledge at the same time your opponents is about to sweetspot it with his recovery move, this will make you invulnerable while leaving the hitbox from the phantasma behind resulting in a really cool and safe spike, if he sweetspots first you can always let go of the leadge and backair him....just discovered it yesterday, it works on fox, palutena, villager, c. falcon, shiek (but only when she disapears and appears again, if she sweet spots the ledge with the first animation of her up b it wont spike), it should work on more character but i havent tested it yet

 

[Bonk!]

i found something really cool with phantsma strike, when opponent is recovering go of the ledge (dont go too far just dash off or walk off) and use phantasma strike too sweetspot the ledge at the same time your opponents is about to sweetspot it with his recovery move, this will make you invulnerable while leaving the hitbox from the phantasma behind resulting in a really cool and safe spike, if he sweetspots first you can always let go of the leadge and backair him....just discovered it yesterday, it works on fox, palutena, villager, c. falcon, shiek (but only when she disapears and appears again, if she sweet spots the ledge with the first animation of her up b it wont spike), it should work on more character but i havent tested it yet

It's super cool that you found that yourself, but I'm pretty sure that was an option in brawl already and maybe even melee.

 

[Snipnigth]

It's super cool that you found that yourself, but I'm pretty sure that was an option in brawl already and maybe even melee.

I used to play a lot of melee o dont think it was possible because in that game you didint sweetspot the leadge like you do in brawl or smash 4, also i have never seen it been used in brawl or smash 4...ill try to post a video later so you can exacly see what im talking about.

So here is the video i promised, im using fox to test it with because he has a really easy up-B to read, but this even works on Ness up-B, i really hope this is new i really havent seen anyone using it in melee, brawl or smash 4, and it seems so safe and good, please tell me what you think and if its nothing new then sorry, i really thought I was helping xD

 

[Ffamran]

Oh, that is dirty! It takes the pivot Falco Phantasm to NBA Jam levels of "BOOM SHAKALAKA!"

Here's where the Falco Phantasm pivoting was talked about: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-pivot-phantasm-laser-shenanigans.380190/.

 

[Snipnigth]

Oh, that is dirty! It takes the pivot Falco Phantasm to NBA Jam levels of "BOOM SHAKALAKA!"

Here's where the Falco Phantasm pivoting was talked about:.

No, its just dashing off the stage, or walking, if you dash off and press sideb it will land on stage and still spike, if you wait till falco drops a little he will sweet spot the edge and also spike

 

[Ffamran]

No, its just dashing off the stage, or walking, if you dash off and press sideb it will land on stage and still spike, if you wait till falco drops a little he will sweet spot the edge and also spike

I meant more as in when you pivot Falco Phantasm, it has a hitbox at the back. This is sort of like that since it hits from the back while Falco grabs the ledge or lands on the ledge.

 

[Snipnigth]

Ohhh, i had no idea that the picot phantasma did that...interesting.

 

[Ffamran]

I believe it's the same for Fox Illusion, but I'm not sure.

 

[Snipnigth]

I believe it's the same for Fox Illusion, but I'm not sure.

Probably but thankfuly is not as usefull as falcos hahaha.

 

[Ffamran]

Probably but thankfuly is not as usefull as falcos hahaha.

Wolf Flash on the other hand... I wonder if it can sweet-spot before Fox/Wolf grabs the ledge. Maybe not since it would be broken as hell if Fox/Wolf grabbed the ledge and your opponent just gets meteored like that.

 

[Snipnigth]

Wolf Flash on the other hand... I wonder if it can sweet-spot before Fox/Wolf grabs the ledge. Maybe not since it would be broken as hell if Fox/Wolf grabbed the ledge and your opponent just gets meteored like that.

No idea i dont have brawl and never was a big fan of it, but yeah probably not....anyways i hope this is useful and more ppl start respecting more the bird and his chicken legg