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Olimar's Matchup Thread (Old thread)

Myran

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To centralize discussion for Olimar's MUs this will be the main thread. Since we don't have a group of well experienced tournament Olimars there won't be set groups for discussion or anything like that. To help other Olimar mains who haven't had a chance to fight more high level players I will be discussing specific character MUs more in depth whenever I get the chance to. Feel free to discuss MUs that you guys need help with, or have information that will be helpful. As the characters covered expand I will create links to make finding specific sections available for ease of use.
 

Eskelsen

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Thanks for taking the time to make this thread. For whatever reason there are barely any competitive threads for Olimar; its a shame since he's an interesting character, but anyways looking forward to your thoughts on the Rosalina match-up.

Perhaps you can do a match-up breakdown for Little Mac next? My main practice partner plays him and I think I have a basic understanding of the match-up, but I'm interested to know your thoughts. Thanks again.
 

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someone that helps me with rosalina and luma? (ty myran for the thread :D)
 

Myran

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Perhaps you can do a match-up breakdown for Little Mac next? My main practice partner plays him and I think I have a basic understanding of the match-up, but I'm interested to know your thoughts. Thanks again.
I can definitely try. When I do these character breakdowns I want to be able to really pick apart what options Olimar has to fight them, while showing what there weaknesses (if any) are.
 
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Myran

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Alright guys today I'll be talking about :rosalina:(Rosalina and Luma). I know this character can be hard to deal with, but I've got some tips and stuff that should make the MU much easier.

Pros
  • Can jab lock Luma.
  • Purples are great for disrupting approaches.
  • Smashes go through Luma making a great tool for walling out.
  • Small size makes certain aerial approaches harder to hit.
  • Olimar's out of shield options can be very strong, especially when coming from a power shield.
Cons
  • She can absorb your smashes with Down-B.
  • Luma makes grabbing very unsafe.
  • Can kill Olimar early.
  • Is able to go offstage to gimp/kill Olimar.


First off I'm gonna start with how to deal with the two types of Rosalina, offensive and defensive. Let's start the with offensive ones. There are a couple ways they will approach you there is the standard auto-canceled Nair approach, the Dash Attack/Dash Grab, and the Luma Shot. Keep in mind there are other ways to be aggressive, but these are the most common ones.

Let's start off with the Nair approach. When a Rosalina Nairs the hitboxes are active all the way until the move cancels on the ground, but the best way to punish this approach is to power shield into jab or smash. This is almost guaranteed everytime if they are throwing out Nair to often. It becomes a much more punishable move, and allows the Olimar to appropriately wrack damage for incorrect aggression. I cannot stress the importance of power shielding, this is a vital part of Olimar's punish game since so many of these higher tier characters have little to no lag on their attacks.

Next I'll talk about the Dash Attack/Dash Grab approach. The Dash attack can be a bit of a hard move to punish, but it is definitely possible. Keep a purple on hand is a great way to immediately stop her from running in. Another method is to bait out an attack/grab then run back and pivot smash/pivot grab. These moves have a lot of range, and are great for grounded opponents. Shielding is what I have found to be a tried and true method for most approaches due to the great OoS options, but make sure not to get to predictable when shielding, because they may start grabbing. Try to find a good balance of shielding, camping out with Pikmin Throw, and pivot attacking. This will make the grounded approach much easier to avoid.

Finally I'll talk about what I find the easiest aggressive style to play against. The Luma Shot is a pretty simple work around. If the Rosalina is shooting in the Luma constantly you can either shield it or jump above it. Once it's out watch out for any attacks, but if you're able to catch it with a jab you can lock it there by jabbing and moving forward as the Luma does. This will make her approach and from there you can do the other options listed above. One thing I have found can work well against less experienced players is to F-Smash right as they approach you. This will end the jab lock, wrack up some extra damage, and will either make the player shield most likely giving you time to get away or hit them.

Now for the Defensive Rosalina. I won't be breaking this down into certain sections, but instead covering how to deal with the ones who stay back and are constantly retreating back. When Rosalina is more defensive I find it to be a much easier MU, because it allows the Olimar much more room to breathe while letting him wrack up easier damage. Defensive Rosalinas are usually there when they can't find out how to get through the wall of Pikmin Olimar can put up. This means that keeping a strong defense of your own is key. Olimar is a defensive character, he wracks up damage from a distance and punishes when the opponent approaches. Another key element is stage control. When you have the Rosalina on the defensive it allows you to push forward on the stage. This allows more safe offense, and an easier time getting those hard hitting attacks on her. Keeping purples with you is key, because it you do decide to press forward for more aggro attacks having the purple will make them retreat to shield, dodge, or get hit. These options are all good, because it allows for much better follow ups. I know this section might sound a little contradictory with me saying Olimar is defensive, but having some stage dominance and offensive pressure, but I hope that you guys will learn what I'm saying as you progress in the MU.

One last note I want to talk about is how to recover when offstage. Rosalina is very good offstage because of her great recovery and large hitboxes. When knocked offstage you need to be able to mix up either going high or low, and when I say low I mean very low. You need to make Rosalina commit to going down so that if you aren't hit she won't be able to throw out another attack. It is also advised when going low to ride the wall of the stage. It will increase the chances of you being hit into the wall which will allow you to tech it and recover.

Overall I'd say the Rosalina MU is a 50/50 for Olimar. He has tools to keep her back, and ways to get around strong pressure. Just make sure to keep the reaction timing up for good power shields and tech, and you'll be able to deal with a lot of offensive pressure she will put out. Purples are huge for going in and keeping her out as well. Abuse the fact that your smashes go through Luma too. If you guys have any more questions feel free to ask!
 

Freezie KO

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^ Great write-up. Is there any way to contest her in the air? It seems that all her aerials have better range than anything Olimar has. She can completely close him out.

Or is the best strategy just to get back to the ground and start tossing, fsmashing, and trying to bait her?
 

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TY myran, now i understand all so keep defensive when rosalina have luma and try to punish her, watch out for dash attack and for dash grab, in this case fsmash is your weapon right?

when luma go out just try to have stage control right?
 

Myran

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Or is the best strategy just to get back to the ground and start tossing, fsmashing, and trying to bait her?
I wouldn't say don't always try to fight her in the air, but most characters will beat Olimar in a trade. More times then not if you're both gonna throw out a move the Olimar will lose. So yeah I'd say just try to get back to the ground, and start camping and walling her out again.

TY myran, now i understand all so keep defensive when rosalina have luma and try to punish her, watch out for dash attack and for dash grab, in this case fsmash is your weapon right?

when luma go out just try to have stage control right?
Yeah just try to maintain your stage presence, if they're coming at you super aggro it's gonna be a lot harder for you to wrack up damage and stay safe.
 
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Seleir

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I think that olimar need to stand always in the ground because his stage control is so good.
Also for follow up is good to do an upair but be careful because of bait
 

Myran

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Alright my next write up is gonna be Little Mac. Gonna get some more dedicated practice in against him. I don't have an ETA for the post, but know it is coming.
 

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Ty also myran look at video thread. I post some video
 

Myran

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Ty also myran look at video thread. I post some video
I saw, but for the sake of keeping each thread relevant ask me questions there. If you think I won't see it just tag my name. Do you want me to critique it? Answer in that thread please.
 
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Blue Banana

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Just a suggestion for an addition to the Rosalina write-up and future ones: why not add in which stages are beneficial, neutral, or disadvantageous to Olimar in each
MU?
 

Myran

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Just a suggestion for an addition to the Rosalina write-up and future ones: why not add in which stages are beneficial, neutral, or disadvantageous to Olimar in each
MU?
Ahh yes, I didn't even think of that. I'll go back and add stages and whatnot, although my stage preferences are a bit standard. Also MU stands for Matchup.
 
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I have been having the most trouble vs Toon link... Spam projectiles constantly and give me no time to breathe or get any damage in, so I have to run away constantly all the while dodging bombs, boomerangs and arrows on top of my pikmin dying from the barrage as well... If I get smashed or aerial attacked I fly so far and it becomes stressful trying to find my way back to the stage safely. All in all a very rough matchup for my Olimar. Please let me know if there are some specific strats or styles that can best fight this character.
 
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Valand43

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I have been having the most trouble vs Toon link... Spam projectiles constantly and give me no time to breathe or get any damage in, so I have to run away constantly all the while dodging bombs, boomerangs and arrows on top of my pikmin dying from the barrage as well... If I get smashed or aerial attacked I fly so far and it becomes stressful trying to find my way back to the stage safely. All in all a very rough matchup for my Olimar. Please let me know if there are some specific strats or styles that can best fight this character.
Whenever I have to fight Toon Link, I usually just outcamp him. The pikmin pretty much stop whatever he's throwing at you when they clash with the projectile, and you should be able to keep plucking and throwing them if you want to get in close. I usually just hang back and throw whites though. Usually once the white latches on, he'll either shield or try to attack it, which is a good chance to run in and get some damage on him with a grab+followup. If he approaches you, you can have a purple ready to throw or anticipate a desperate attack and grab out of shield. If he doesn't do any of that....well free white poison damage on him which you can repeat since he's going to let you pluck as many of them as you want if he keeps spamming projectiles for you to be able to reach the white in the sequence again.

tl;dr I would just outcamp him, bait him into an approach or a defensive action, then play the punish game(I find this strategy works well for a lot of characters in general since most are unfamiliar against Olimar). If you played Pikmin 2, just pretend he's the Man-At-Legs but you can stop his projectiles lol.
 
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samoht45

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that's basically what I try to do as well so I guess I have the right idea and just need to git gud. but man... that bomb splash really aggravates me, it seems like such a large hitbox on it. and this toon link I was playing I swear had the best angling on his projectiles he could literally get in RIGHT above the pikmin throw, and consistently at that.
 

Freezie KO

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Myran, as our resident Hocotate Hero, any chance you can share some MU knowledge on Yoshi? I schooled some For Glory Diddy, but when he switched over to Yoshi, I started having major problems.

When I tried to out-camp him, my pikmin were clashing with all the egg tosses and kept dying to dash attacks, that beastly nair, and the rolling egg move. I was getting hit pretty hard by Yoshi's dash attack since I couldn't roll back or shield grab (because the move continues so far). I eventually had to "trap" myself in a corner, so his dash attack would pass through my shield and I could immediately down smash to punish.

Once he realized what I was doing and started using counter strategies with running grabs, repeated nairs, carrying me off stage with aerials, and pinpoint egg tosses, I was having issues once again getting any offense going. Any tips against this top tier dino?
 

Myran

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Myran, as our resident Hocotate Hero, any chance you can share some MU knowledge on Yoshi? I schooled some For Glory Diddy, but when he switched over to Yoshi, I started having major problems.

When I tried to out-camp him, my pikmin were clashing with all the egg tosses and kept dying to dash attacks, that beastly nair, and the rolling egg move. I was getting hit pretty hard by Yoshi's dash attack since I couldn't roll back or shield grab (because the move continues so far). I eventually had to "trap" myself in a corner, so his dash attack would pass through my shield and I could immediately down smash to punish.

Once he realized what I was doing and started using counter strategies with running grabs, repeated nairs, carrying me off stage with aerials, and pinpoint egg tosses, I was having issues once again getting any offense going. Any tips against this top tier dino?
Yoshi can be a little annoying if you aren't to sure how to handle some stuff. Being able to dodge his eggs is pretty important since he can snipe you with them whenever you try to throw Pikmin. Also respect his nair, it has a lot of priority and is active for while. If he is constantly hitting your shield you could try a nair out of shield to catch him. When he dash attacks just try and shield it, then turn around and fsmash. (Power shielding makes this much easier) You just have to be ready to really respect his moves since they will usually win. Play smart and have power shields on point for optimal punishes. Also you can usmash out of shield if he bairs you.
 
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Freezie KO

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Yoshi can be a little annoying if you aren't to sure how to handle some stuff. Being able to dodge his eggs is pretty important since he can snipe you with them whenever you try to throw Pikmin. Also respect his nair, it has a lot of priority and is active for while. If he is constantly hitting your shield you could try a nair out of shield to catch him. When he dash attacks just try and shield it, then turn around and fsmash. (Power shielding makes this much easier) You just have to be ready to really respect his moves since they will usually win. Play smart and have power shields on point for optimal punishes. Also you can usmash out of shield if he bairs you.
Hmm... Thanks. I'll try usmash and nair OoS, but the rest looks like what I was afraid of: Yoshi has amazing high-priority moves, and I just have to play smarter/get lucky.
 

Myran

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Power shielding is Olimar's bread and butter. You master that and punishes just present themselves to you.
 

Freezie KO

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I'm just gonna request help for the Sonic matchup. Dude is fast
First, I'll say that I find Sonic the most annoying character to play against no matter who I'm playing with. Anyway...

I have a lot of success with double fsmash. The first fsmash stops spin dash, and they rarely expect the next one to come out so fast. I have success with up-air against Sonics as well. Maybe it's because they've conditioned themselves not to rely on Sonic's laggy dair. Their next best option is homing attack which stops them dead in the air.

Myran posted a video a while back of him fighting Sonic, and one thing I took from that was to liberally throw pikmin at Sonic. Lots of pikmin die of course ( :( ), but once you cycle through, you can get a couple purples. The purple tosses are great for stopping Sonic's approaches really well, especially the fast dash attack/grab 50/50 mix-up. Better to throw a purple pikmin at him when he's running full speed at you rather than trying to read what he's going to do. Of course, the purples aren't as good for the double fsmashes though.
 
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Angbad

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Hey guys I really think we should get some solid diddy discussion in. He's one of the characters you're most likely to be up against at this point in the meta. I'd love to hear some thoughts you all have on the match up.
 

Freezie KO

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Hey guys I really think we should get some solid diddy discussion in. He's one of the characters you're most likely to be up against at this point in the meta. I'd love to hear some thoughts you all have on the match up.
I feel Diddy isn't too bad a match up for Olimar to be honest. Diddy's main objective is to grab you. He has a lot of ways to mix this up: dash attack or dash grab, monkey flip or monkey flipkick, or throw a banana. Olimar's disjointed fsmash shuts this down all day. As soon as Diddy approaches, fsmash is a great option, especially because Olimar can act more quickly out of his fsmash than the strong majority of characters.

I love going deep offstage with Olimar, and Diddy is particularly susceptible to gimping his recovery (although the actual timing of hitting Diddy can be tricky.) Throwing a purple pikmin offstage to disrupt his recovery when he tries to flip back on stage is another good option and sets up further offstage play where Olimar should win. Also, camping him and racking up percent is a solid option because Diddy must get that grab for most of his game to start working.

The negatives of course are Olimar's weight and a particularly aggressive Diddy. Olimar's lightness makes it very easy to knock him off the top of the stage via Diddy's abusive up-air strings. As Olimar, mission #1 should be getting back to the ground safely. And an aggressive Diddy will make it so that you can't touch the ground without getting hit or grabbed and sent back up again (not to mention that you can't pluck more pikmin when under constant pressure).

If Olimar can keep stage control though and use smart play to regain control when Diddy starts flowing with combos, then it's a very winnable match up.
 
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Angbad

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I feel Diddy isn't too bad a match up for Olimar to be honest. Diddy's main objective is to grab you. He has a lot of ways to mix this up: dash attack or dash grab, monkey flip or monkey flipkick, or throw a banana. Olimar's disjointed fsmash shuts this down all day. As soon as Diddy approaches, fsmash is a great option, especially because Olimar can act more quickly out of his fsmash than the strong majority of characters.

I love going deep offstage with Olimar, and Diddy is particularly susceptible to gimping his recovery (although the actual timing of hitting Diddy can be tricky.) Throwing a purple pikmin offstage to disrupt his recovery when he tries to flip back on stage is another good option and sets up further offstage play where Olimar should win. Also, camping him and racking up percent is a solid option because Diddy must get that grab for most of his game to start working.

The negatives of course are Olimar's weight and a particularly aggressive Diddy. Olimar's lightness makes it very easy to knock him off the top of the stage via Diddy's abusive up-air strings. As Olimar, mission #1 should be getting back to the ground safely. And an aggressive Diddy will make it so that you can't touch the ground without getting hit or grabbed and sent back up again (not to mention that you can't pluck more pikmin when under constant pressure).

If Olimar can keep stage control though and use smart play to regain control when Diddy starts flowing with combos, then it's a very winnable match up.
I agree that it's a winnable match up. I've been playing against a diddy a lot lately who really knows olimar so it's tough. His popgun basically nullifies my camping game at a certain range. And fsmash does not go through diddy's side b with the kick, but it does go through banana throw and continue on to hit him. Oh and also our pikmin will pick up the banana, carry it back to us, and then drop it at our feet which causes us to trip.

I feel like once stage control is lost, you're going to get at least 30% on you as a punish. I'd say I went around 50/50 in 30ish matches, but that if the diddy knows the olimar match up, it's going to be very very difficult. Diddy simply has more options.
 

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Ok so what's up with this match up. Shulk can just safely spam aerials that I cant get around to punish. He can approach with aerials that kill pikmin and I can't sheild grab after becuase he's to close or he jabs. Is there just something I'm missing or is this just a bad match up for olimar.
 

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This is a bad matchup for Olimar. I've learned you have to play smart and bait. Sure Olimar has nice air potential, but Shulk's is even better. Can't beat em in the air? Beat em on the ground.

(Also, next time use the Matchup thread!! :] )
 

Myran

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This is a bad matchup for Olimar. I've learned you have to play smart and bait. Sure Olimar has nice air potential, but Shulk's is even better. Can't beat em in the air? Beat em on the ground.

(Also, next time use the Matchup thread!! :] )
What Hadon said about using the main matchup thread. As for Shulk I find it to be pretty easy. Just know when to shield his attacks and do the standard camp game. It can get a little difficult when he goes speed, but as long as you can handle fast pressure it's doable.
 

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also i find more difficult beat shulk, just because i dont have the MU now.
so i try to shield is skill but all his attack have more range than mine.
so i think is 40 60 for me
 

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As someone who mains Shulk and also plays a fair bit of this character (considering making him a dedicated secondary) I can concur that this is a hard match-up for the little astronaut. Shulk's aerials allow him to zone out the Pikmin before they even reach him, in addition to being able to counter Pikmin that are latched onto him allowing him to suddenly kill you at around 100 with a sudden quick counter. Something else to note about his counter is that it's also unblockable so that limits your options on reaction to it. You have to be very quick and spotdodge it. One of Shulk's main weaknesses is that he doesn't like being pressured while in his shield as his OoS options are fairly limited. I feel like you almost have to play this match-up quite aggro. Force him into his shield then mix him up with a grab and go from there. One other thing that Olimar nullifies against Shulk is Shulk's amazing edgeguarding potential. Since Olimar's recovery is so flexible, even Shulk can have a hard time edgeguarding him. Olimar on the other hand can go deep for his edgeguards to try to gimp Shulk.
 

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As someone who mains Shulk and also plays a fair bit of this character (considering making him a dedicated secondary) I can concur that this is a hard match-up for the little astronaut. Shulk's aerials allow him to zone out the Pikmin before they even reach him, in addition to being able to counter Pikmin that are latched onto him allowing him to suddenly kill you at around 100 with a sudden quick counter. Something else to note about his counter is that it's also unblockable so that limits your options on reaction to it. You have to be very quick and spotdodge it. One of Shulk's main weaknesses is that he doesn't like being pressured while in his shield as his OoS options are fairly limited. I feel like you almost have to play this match-up quite aggro. Force him into his shield then mix him up with a grab and go from there. One other thing that Olimar nullifies against Shulk is Shulk's amazing edgeguarding potential. Since Olimar's recovery is so flexible, even Shulk can have a hard time edgeguarding him. Olimar on the other hand can go deep for his edgeguards to try to gimp Shulk.
Getting shielding on point makes his aerial approach a lot less viable. Jab him after a power shield and it's a free punish. I have yet to find this MU to be in Shulk's favor. Knowing how to properly keep an opponent out with Pikmin is a technique all Olimar players should know. With good spacing, shielding, and Pikmin management it's much more manageable.
 

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Getting shielding on point makes his aerial approach a lot less viable. Jab him after a power shield and it's a free punish. I have yet to find this MU to be in Shulk's favor. Knowing how to properly keep an opponent out with Pikmin is a technique all Olimar players should know. With good spacing, shielding, and Pikmin management it's much more manageable.
Though jab after powershield is under the assumption that Shulk misspaces his aerial approach which good Shulks will rarely do. They'll either make sure to space you out of range of most of Olimar's moveset (particularly his quickest OoS options) or they'll cross you up. Good spacing applies both ways and if both characters have good spacing it's in Shulk's favour imo because he can space better due to vastly superior range. I don't believe Shulk to be one of Olimar's worst match-ups and while I do think it's disadvantageous for him I don't feel it's terrible, but I definitely don't think it's in his favour at all. Like a 55-45/60-40 Shulk/Olimar imo.
 

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guys zero suit samus is chancer, i cant do nothyng vs her. someone can give me some tips?
 

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Myranice
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Though jab after powershield is under the assumption that Shulk misspaces his aerial approach which good Shulks will rarely do. They'll either make sure to space you out of range of most of Olimar's moveset (particularly his quickest OoS options) or they'll cross you up. Good spacing applies both ways and if both characters have good spacing it's in Shulk's favour imo because he can space better due to vastly superior range. I don't believe Shulk to be one of Olimar's worst match-ups and while I do think it's disadvantageous for him I don't feel it's terrible, but I definitely don't think it's in his favour at all. Like a 55-45/60-40 Shulk/Olimar imo.
If he spaces his aerial to where you can't drop shield and jab after a power shield you reset to neutral. While in neutral you don't have to approach to wrack up damage while he does. A lot of his grounded moves can be punished with power shields.

guys zero suit samus is chancer, i cant do nothyng vs her. someone can give me some tips?
Uhh just dodge her attacks and shield when appropriate. Basic Olimar things can get you a long way in most matchups.
 
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Angbad

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
604
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South Central Los Angeles
NNID
Angbad
Getting shielding on point makes his aerial approach a lot less viable. Jab him after a power shield and it's a free punish. I have yet to find this MU to be in Shulk's favor. Knowing how to properly keep an opponent out with Pikmin is a technique all Olimar players should know. With good spacing, shielding, and Pikmin management it's much more manageable.
I played against Kiraflax(Top So Cal player) in tournament on Saturday and lost 2-1 to his Shulk. I do not think it is a particularly bad match up, but it was hard for me because I was very inexperienced in it. The biggest issue I was having was him spacing max range back airs on me. I would shield them, but he'd be so far away from me that it was impossible to ever punish the back air when it was properly spaced.
 

jester860

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
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19
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Madison, Wisconsin
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If he spaces his aerial to where you can't drop shield and jab after a power shield you reset to neutral. While in neutral you don't have to approach to wrack up damage while he does. A lot of his grounded moves can be punished with power shields.


Uhh just dodge her attacks and shield when appropriate. Basic Olimar things can get you a long way in most matchups.
What does it mean to be neutral
 
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