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Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

Discussion in 'Brawl Competitive Discussion' started by Marc, Dec 29, 2011.

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  1. Marc

    Marc Diamond Dog

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    v1: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298484

    This is the second version of the BBR matchup chart, which displays ratings of all matchups in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Aside from scores that changed as opposed to v1, there are some procedural changes for this iteration.

    While we worked with panels again, we also asked outsiders for help and gave them access to a subforum created specifically for this project. Although not everyone invited took this opportunity to do their part, overall character representation was better than for v1. In the end we had close to 150 people participating from both inside and outside the BBR, making this the first major Smashboards project that can be seen as a community effort. I’d like to thank all panel leaders and Ankoku, ESAM, Ishieymoro, Krystedez, Red Ryu, Shaya, Slhoka, Twinkie and Zigsta in particular for their help with finalizing scores and preparing the final release.

    A common complaint with v1 is that the scores by itself don’t tell you how to play the matchup. While we still won’t likely cover all ~700 matchups in the game, there is an initial batch of writeups included. We would like to ask you, the public, to list what matchups you would most like to see writeups on and we will attempt to add them over time. Furthermore, if you are willing to do a writeup of your own or update an existing one, feel free to send me a PM. This also goes for any mistakes and inconsistencies you might spot, as most of this is the result of manual labour.

    Sheilda is still treated as its own entity in order to be consistent with the tier list and v1. The combination does better than either Sheik or Zelda individually in a few matchups, these have been marked with a * in her individual spread.

    Finally, some information with regards to reading the chart. This time around characters in the main chart are ordered by their average score against the rest of the cast, as tier lists get outdated and it makes more sense this way. At the end of every line of scores you will find the number of winning, losing and even matchups for that character, as well as their average score and difference in placement with the current tier list (BBR tier list v6.0). You will also find that characters within the individual spreads, found below the chart, are ordered by alphabet. There are some exceptions: these panels internally agreed on an order of difficulty, with left being hardest and right being easiest within any given tier of matchup difficulty.

    Note that for all scores a competitive level of play is assumed and the performance of top and high level players was generally considered more strongly than what is seen in lower level play. Keep in mind that the chart does not necessarily reflect the opinions and performances of absolute outliers and is ultimately a consensus between people who are assumed to know their character. Furthermore, the Unity ruleset was kept in mind.



    The Matchup Chart

    [​IMG]

  2. Marc

    Marc Diamond Dog

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    BATCH 1 (included with initial release)













    -

    BATCH 2 (posted on 2/11/2012)



























    -

    BATCH 3 (posted on 4/24/2012)






  3. Marc

    Marc Diamond Dog

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    -reserved-
  4. Shaya

    Shaya /人◕‿‿◕人\

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    Yay for a new chart!
  5. Ishieymoro

    Ishieymoro We lived like kings

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    Umm... delete this if I can't post here (as in, thread moving for the final release or something :x). The difference table is partially inaccurate, at least for Snake and Pikachu. Otherwise, things look pretty good :)

    :059:

    :phone:
  6. philbobjoe

    philbobjoe Smash Journeyman

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    The new chart is looking good. Is it going to have colors added eventually like the old one?
  7. Doc King

    Doc King Smash Lord

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    D3 matchups look pretty good. Only problems I have with them is I think are mainly Lucario should be +2 and Ganon should be +4. Otherwise, pretty good. It would definitely make sense D3 would lose to Diddy -2 and Zero Suit only -1. Diddy is so much more annoying. Zero Suit you at least get some good tech chase options and stuff. Also, yay for Wario being +2!

    Edit: Whoops, I thought I saw Zero Suit being a -1.
  8. Ishieymoro

    Ishieymoro We lived like kings

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    Whoops lol I'm good at getting ninja'd xD but yeah, HUGE shoutout to everyone that worked on this (especially Marc for leading the project and everything), it was a lot of work and I'm pretty pleased with how things turned out overall.

    :059:

    :phone:
  9. SaveMeJebus

    SaveMeJebus Smash Master

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    Diddy goes even with MK. So does Fox
  10. Twinkie

    Twinkie .

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    Not anymore. :)

    Good stuff everybody. I'm glad this is finally out.
  11. SaveMeJebus

    SaveMeJebus Smash Master

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    Yeah, ever since Diddys' started complaining instead of getting better.
  12. infiniteV115

    infiniteV115 Smash Hero

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    WTF at Diddy gimping ZSS better than she gimps him. Does P-1 even have experience in this MU?
  13. Marc

    Marc Diamond Dog

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    We'll fix that. If only you were 10 minutes earlier. :p

    We're going to make the chart look better, but decided it's better to put it out now because the data is all there and at some point you just need to release. It's definitely a work in progress. :)
  14. Sonic Storm

    Sonic Storm Smash Master

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    *MK even with Pikachu*

    *Goes to see MU elaboration down below, figuring that would certainly be one of those matchups explained*

    *Does not see "Meta Knight vs. Pikachu"*

    Yeah, I want explanations on this before I subscribe to that opinion, lol
  15. Zankoku

    Zankoku sugoi~

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    Time to start working on writing stuff.
  16. infiniteV115

    infiniteV115 Smash Hero

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    You might want to throw in here that the MU chart assumes the Unity Ruleset (it does, right?).
  17. Sinister Slush

    Sinister Slush ❄ I miss my kind ❄

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    Good, I've been anticipating this.
    Time to argue all over again!
  18. Ishieymoro

    Ishieymoro We lived like kings

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    The MU chart assumes Unity. A MK vs Pika write-up is basically done iirc, should be released soon after a QC.

    :059:

    :phone:
  19. SFA aka SmileyFace

    SFA aka SmileyFace Smash Champion

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    This is to another 700 pages of bickering :D
  20. Aleate

    Aleate Unaware

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    Eugh... Zelda with positive matchups yet again... and CF even?

    Ganondorf shouldn't be higher than +1, and that's already a stretch.
  21. Marc

    Marc Diamond Dog

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    We have more writeups near completion, MK vs Pikachu is one of them.

    Yep, I added a line about that.
  22. infiniteV115

    infiniteV115 Smash Hero

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    I don't even get a thank you?:(
    Just for that, I'll brew up a flame war


    I DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING
  23. Delta-cod

    Delta-cod Smash Hero

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    Well, I disagree with infinite.
  24. Iota

    Iota Smash Lord

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    Why is Wario even with Sheik? I thought it was +1 for Wario. Same question and statement for Pikachu.
  25. Ussi

    Ussi Smash Legend

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    Pikachu wanted a better MU spread than Marth
  26. Yink

    Yink Smash PSIentist

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    Not too bad on Ness' part. Chart looks good.
  27. IhaveSonar

    IhaveSonar Smash Journeyman

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    Is there any particular reasoning behind the order of the characters along the top and side of the chart? Not that it really matters, but I'm just curious.

    The matchups look good.
  28. Shaya

    Shaya /人◕‿‿◕人\

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    And you pikakids did everything they could through lying, cheating and sleeping with the people in power to get your spread as OP'd as possible.
  29. Doc King

    Doc King Smash Lord

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    It actually surprises me how mk has an even matchup with Pikachu.
  30. Marc

    Marc Diamond Dog

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    Their total matchup score determined the order (the average scores would accomplish the same). It's completely unweighted though, so having a good matchup against what is perceived as low tier weighs the same as having a good matchup against a more viable character. We might work with the data more in the future.
  31. Gardex

    Gardex Smash Lord

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    only one even matchup for MK?
    And it's Pikachu?
  32. da K.I.D.

    da K.I.D. Smash Hero

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    and let the salt storm begin...
  33. san.

    san. Smash Master

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    Meh, don't know what to think of this yet.
  34. Zankoku

    Zankoku sugoi~

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    After a lot of discussion among the Warios and maybe a little less discussion among the Sheiks, it was determined that it was a match-up that could be argued for either character to barely edge out the other. I'll make a note of your query and include it in my list of match-ups to write about, though.
  35. SinisterB

    SinisterB Smash Champion

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    Why is Pika on par with DDD for Wolf's worst MU? It's definitely manageable.

    Why do we lose to Diddy?
  36. Iota

    Iota Smash Lord

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    Okay thank you Sight.

    On 2nd look of the chart it looks decent except for certain MUs and chars
  37. Aerodrome

    Aerodrome ミョルニルサンダー

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    oh em gee this

    wtfbbqhax
  38. SFA aka SmileyFace

    SFA aka SmileyFace Smash Champion

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    My only personal gripes is that I feel ZSS/GW are even and I am probably the only person who thinks this but I think GW is only +1 against Link

    For ZSS vs. us I don't see why we lose... That's about it really. I think it's probably one of our most even matchups. Can she do anything about Nair? does her Uair beat our dair? How safe is she offstage? (our strongest area)

    She's a lightweight isn't she? I mean I don't think we win, that matchup i've always perceived as extremely even.

    And Link, it's totally possible that i'm wrong, but i think he actually does pretty well against GW. He's got good camp game and a sword. And that's really it. It's black and white but why overcomplicate anything?

    Other than that as far as I can tell this chart is pretty good except for the whole Pika vs MK thing. I can't wrap my head around that being an even matchup if every other character loses to MK.
  39. Aerodrome

    Aerodrome ミョルニルサンダー

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    Zelda's u-air beats G&W's dair, so yeah, Zamus' uair would.
  40. Browny

    Browny Smash Hater

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    lol @ the overall rankings

    DK so low, and snake quite low too. once again marth gets a free ride to the top for no reason.

    Nothing much seems to have changed overall though, meh.
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