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Character Discussion Thread

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BaganSmashBros

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Alph could have been a clone and was more deserving, Sakurai said "LOL NOPE MAH BABY"
And he goes under same excuse "can't use X" too. At other hand, Dark Pit requires a lot less work since, well, he is just black Pit with few different attributes in this game while Alph would require more changes to the model than just simply recoloring textures.
 

Arcadenik

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And he goes under same excuse "can't use X" too. At other hand, Dark Pit requires a lot less work since, well, he is just black Pit with few different attributes in this game while Alph would require more changes to the model than just simply recoloring textures.
Well, they could have made Alph not pick the Red, Blue, Yellow, and White Pikmin... and only pick the Rock Pikmin which are just Purple Pikmin with a different model.
 

N3ON

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I disagree, KI Uprising has about 8 weapon classes, Pit uses 3 of them, Dark Pit's official artwork makes everyone cringe as he uses this: Dark Pit Staff. By the logic of same weapons same moveset, I'd like an explanation for Marth and Ike too
I never said same weapons same moveset. That's too many sword-wielder logic. I'm saying he could be unique, but he wouldn't be added if he was. In every sense of the word he was only ever meant to be an expy of Pit. Even if Dark Pit could be unique, and I don't deny he could be, I have to imagine Sakurai would invest his time in other, more important characters from less proportionally represented or more major series. FE on the other hand only had one unique character prior to Ike, like three times as many games as KI, more popular candidates than Dark Pit, and characters who played lead roles. That's why Ike got in.

Your example would be like if Isaac was in Smash and we were also to get Matthew. Sure he could be unique, but that's not going to happen. He'd only get in if Sakurai needed to pad the roster.

Olimar is too complex of a character design to make a proper clone out of.

Possible? Sure. But hard. Dark Pit wasn't.
Alph could work exactly like Olimar and it'd be a fine, if not shallow representation of him. It is already.

Sure you could differentiate them, that would be preferable obv, but a direct clone would still be true to Alph.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I never said same weapons same moveset. That's too many sword-wielder logic. I'm saying he could be unique, but he wouldn't be added if he was. In every sense of the word he was only ever meant to be an expy of Pit. Even if Dark Pit could be unique, and I don't deny he could be, I have to imagine Sakurai would invest his time in other, more important characters from less proportionally represented or more major series. FE on the other hand only had one unique character prior to Ike, like three times as many games as KI, more popular candidates than Dark Pit, and characters who played lead roles. That's why Ike got in.

Your example would be like if Isaac was in Smash and we were also to get Matthew. Sure he could be unique, but that's not going to happen. He'd only get in if Sakurai needed to pad the roster.


Alph could work exactly like Olimar and it'd be a fine, if not shallow representation of him. It is already.
I get the point now, but heavily disagree with Icaas/Matthew. So much Psynergy...
 

BaganSmashBros

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Well, they could have made Alph not pick the Red, Blue, Yellow, and White Pikmin... and only pick the Rock Pikmin which are just Purple Pikmin with a different model.
Not what i meant. Alph has different head when compared to Olimar and that is already a lot more of a difference than Dark Pit and Pit. So, Dark Pit is already easier to make. That is without even thinking about moveset.
 
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Dinoman96

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I legitimately think he's biased in certain areas, and that was a joke. Takamaru, not playable because he isn't popular enough. Arguably Ness, Ice Climbers and Pit want a word
Mother had a bigger cult following than Mysterious Murasame Castle did in Japan. Pit actually DID get into Brawl because of popularity. For years, a lot more people wanted Pit in Brawl and for Kid Icarus to receive a revival much more than Takamaru or Mysterious Murasame Castle.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update

I was well aware that Pit was a popular character in both America and Japan. I tried as best I could to design this version of him in a way that reflected current tastes, so I'm happy to see him so well received.
As for Ice Climbers, they at least saw an overseas release. Sakurai included them as means of representing NES action games like Balloon Fight and Urban Champion.
 

N3ON

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I get the point now, but heavily disagree with Icaas/Matthew. So much Psynergy...
But it's not a question of potential, it's a question of merit. Some characters will only make it on to the roster if their inclusion is clone levels of simplicity. Dark Pit is one, Matthew is another. Ganondorf is not one, and that's why it's true wasted potential. If he wasn't a Falcon clone in Melee he would've been original in Brawl. If Dark Pit wasn't a clone of Pit... he wouldn't be on the roster.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I doubt its worth asking considering what he said about various things.
I know, but I'm curious nonetheless
Mother had a bigger cult following than Mysterious Murasame Castle did in Japan. Pit actually DID get into Brawl because of popularity. For years, a lot more people wanted Pit in Brawl and for Kid Icarus to receive a revival much more than Takamaru or Mysterious Murasame Castle.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update



As for Ice Climbers, they at least saw an overseas release. Sakurai included them as means of representing NES action games like Balloon Fight and Urban Champion.
Wait, I thought everyone thought "Who's Pit?" My sources are inaccurate...
 

Kenith

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I am sure K.Rool wasn't playable because he is fat and that would offend certain people.
/s...j...whatever, just being not serious
Well, that reaction certainly was here.
I agree with this...King K. Rool's weight really offends me.

But it's not a question of potential, it's a question of merit. Some characters will only make it on to the roster if their inclusion is clone levels of simplicity. Dark Pit is one, Matthew is another. Ganondorf is not one, and that's why it's true wasted potential. If he wasn't a Falcon clone in Melee he would've been original in Brawl. If Dark Pit wasn't a clone of Pit... he wouldn't be on the roster.
Brb putting this in my signature.
 

BaganSmashBros

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I agree with this...King K. Rool's weight really offends me.
Oh gawd, Sakurai was right. And K.Rool also has triangles on his crown, mouth (his teeth), fingers and toes (claws) and he also has a big eye, so, he also can leak some info on Illuminati and we can't have any of that s**t, right?

...i am sure that if Sakurai would actually use this as an excuse, many would swallow that without choking on it, then pull this into K.Rool supporters' face until next game or even longer than that.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Oh gawd, Sakurai was right. And K.Rool also has triangles on his crown, mouth (his teeth), fingers and toes (claws) and he also has a big eye, so, he also can leak some info on Illuminati and we can't have any of that s**t, right?

...i am sure that if Sakurai would actually use this as an excuse, many would swallow that without choking on it, then pull this into K.Rool supporters' face until next game or even longer than that.
'Roy isn't back because gingers don't have souls'
'Little Mac was scrub bait as you Muricans are all scrublords'
'Melee is the worst game I've worked on'
 

Curious Villager

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Honestly, whether Dark Pit was unique or a clone I feel that eitherway would have been a lose/lose situation imo. I think him being a clone is the better choice of the two options as not as much time and resources was spend on him, otherwhise people would have been pushing the whole "Sakurai Bias" even further down and all. Of course him remaining an alt would have been the least controversial choice but ah well....

Also not sure if Alph would have been treated that much better if he was chosen instead considering how controversial Toon Link and Lucina where when they where confirmed. And the former was a semi clone and still got flamed at for months until the latter was confirmed, with the flames carrying over to her instead until we found out about everyones favourite Dark Angel....

I don't know, Perhaps the hate for Alph would have probably died out a bit sooner but who knows I guess. Just my two cents on the matter I suppose.....
 
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Arcadenik

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@ N3ON N3ON I would love to have both Isaac and Matthew... Isaac could use rock-based Venus Psynergy... and Matthew could use plant-based Venus Psynergy.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Honestly, whether Dark Pit was unique or a clone I feel that eitherway would have been a lose/lose situation imo. I think him being a clone is the better choice of the two options as not as much time and resources was spend on him, otherwhise people would have been pushing the whole "Sakurai Bias" even further down and all. Of course him remaining an alt would have been the least controversial choice but ah well....

Also not sure if Alph would have been treated that much better if he was chosen instead considering how controversial Toon Link and Lucina where when they where confirmed. And the former was a semi clone and still got flamed at for months until the latter was confirmed, with the flames carrying over to her instead until we found out about everyones "favourite" Dark Angel....

I don't know, Perhaps the hate for Alph would have probably died out a bit sooner but who knows I guess. Just my two cents on the matter I suppose.....
At least Tink's aerials are different. I think he should have the Sand Rod as a new Down B though
 

N3ON

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@ N3ON N3ON I would love to have both Isaac and Matthew... Isaac could use rock-based Venus Psynergy... and Matthew could use plant-based Venus Psynergy.
Oh I'm not saying they couldn't play differently, of course they could; there's so much potential for GS movesets. I'm just saying they wouldn't play differently because the only reason we'd get two, unless GS gets a lot more prolific, is if one is a clone of the other for padding purposes.
 

BKupa666

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Oh gawd, Sakurai was right. And K.Rool also has triangles on his crown, mouth (his teeth), fingers and toes (claws) and he also has a big eye, so, he also can leak some info on Illuminati and we can't have any of that s**t, right?

...i am sure that if Sakurai would actually use this as an excuse, many would swallow that without choking on it, then pull this into K.Rool supporters' face until next game or even longer than that.
Don't forget that he's a reptile, which means he's in cahoots with the Lizard Men in charge of the U.S. government.
 
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I think pit is the best designed character

He has wings and just look at the rest of his clothes
 

Arcadenik

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Oh I'm not saying they couldn't play differently, of course they could; there's so much potential for GS movesets. I'm just saying they wouldn't play differently because the only reason we'd get two, unless GS gets a lot more prolific, is if one is a clone of the other for padding purposes.
Yeah, I don't really like adding clones for padding purposes unless their gameplay actually are different from the original counterparts... like Toon Link, Lucas, and Wolf...
 

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I think pit is the best designed character
He has wings

At least Tink's aerials are different. I think he should have the Sand Rod as a new Down B though
I honestly don't like the idea of Toon Link being decloned that much.
Considering all the items he uses in Smash - Bombs, Arrows, Hookshot, are all very important items in The Wind Waker, so it would make very little sense to replace them with something less important, like the Deku Leaf.
 

BaganSmashBros

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Yeah, I don't really like adding clones for padding purposes unless their gameplay actually are different from the original counterparts... like Toon Link, Lucas, and Wolf...
Those are SEMI-clones. Its a very different thing. Clones = Melee Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, etc. Semi-clones = post-Melee Ganondorf, Wolf, PM Roy, Toon Link, Lucas, etc.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I honestly don't like the idea of Toon Link being decloned that much.
Considering all the items he uses in Smash - Bombs, Arrows, Hookshot, are all very important items in The Wind Waker, so it would make very little sense to replace them with something less important, like the Deku Leaf.
True, I still think every veteran should return and be upgraded to semi clone at the very least for the Melee vets
 

Arcadenik

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I honestly don't like the idea of Toon Link being decloned that much.
Considering all the items he uses in Smash - Bombs, Arrows, Hookshot, are all very important items in The Wind Waker, so it would make very little sense to replace them with something less important, like the Deku Leaf.
The Deku Leaf was important too... you couldn't finish the game without it.
 

Dinoman96

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You know, whenever Sakurai talks about why a certain character didn't make it in, I do think his reasoning make enough sense. You may not agree with him on Ridley, but he simply doesn't think making what is normally a huge imposing dragon into a dinky little thing doesn't do the character justice, and a lot of people would agree on that. And with Chrom, Robin just stood out to him as way more unique and interesting. People say "but...Lucina!" but she was obviously added in at a later date when they weren't so concerned about adding unique newcomers and just needed some extra clones.

Now, if you want a true bull****ter, check out Ryota Niitsuma, the big cheese behind Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Literally none of that guy's reasoning for excluding characters made any sense, and he kept contradicting himself way more than Sakurai ever has. He said that "Strider didn't fit in with the concept" and "we couldn't fit in Ghost Rider's bike" and "Nemesis would raise the game's ratings" and "Mega Man didn't have enough moves" (lol). Of course, Strider, Nemesis, and Ghost Rider all ended up as playable anyway later on.
 

BaganSmashBros

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The Deku Leaf was important too... you couldn't finish the game without it.
You know, you can't finish the game without those energy things in Metroid Prime 3 either, but it doesn't makes them really important.
Anyway, isn't Toon Link just cartoonish Link from games like WW, PH and LBW instead of being WW Link?

You may not agree with him on Ridley, but he simply doesn't think making what is normally a huge imposing dragon into a dinky little thing doesn't do the character justice, and a lot of people would agree on that.
And how much of those who wanted him playable would care about that when compared to those who didn't wanted that? Risk here is very insignifficant when compared to the reward, so, resizing Ridley wouldn't matter much as long as he is still bigger than Samus and most of the cast. And if he thinks what currently is on Pyrosphere is doing the character justice, then i'd better not know what he thinks of him.
 
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Guys any tips on beating Pikachu with pit all it does is grabs you and shocks you 10+ times and then puts you on its back and shocks even more and its SUPER annoying to dodge all its electric attacks, and it even stuns you so it can hit you even more please help me.
 

N3ON

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Guys any tips on beating Pikachu with pit all it does is grabs you and shocks you 10+ times and then puts you on its back and shocks even more and its SUPER annoying to dodge all its electric attacks, and it even stuns you so it can hit you even more please help me.
Use a ground type. Flying is no good.
 
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