Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

Oh for the love of...

Try again.

I don't really see the gag.

 

[BKupa666]

Ridley's appearance/movement and Ganondorf's attacks both fall under the tent of overall character design. Neither movement nor attacks can exist separate from the other; there's no such thing as fighters without attacks or immobile formless blobs of attacks. It's all one package. It's arbitrary to distinguish between the two where "accuracy to character" is involved.

Sakurai's intelligence has nothing to do with the idea that holding characters to different standards of accuracy while emphasizing accuracy is textbook hypocrisy.

 

[Kalimdori]

I don't really see the gag.

It was meant as a sarcastic remark, blowing something out of proportion for a cheap chuckle from myself and maybe a few other people.

Although I'm not terribly surprised you couldn't see that.

 

[Deleted member]

It was meant as a sarcastic remark, blowing something out of proportion for a cheap chuckle from myself and maybe a few other people.

Although I'm not terribly surprised you couldn't see that.

Sarcasm is either untraceable or blatantly obvious depending on how it's conveyed on screen with very little room in the middle.
Sad, but true.

Ridley's appearance/movement and Ganondorf's attacks both fall under the tent of overall character design. Neither movement nor attacks can exist separate from the other; there's no such thing as fighters without attacks or immobile formless blobs of attacks. It's all one package. It's arbitrary to distinguish between the two where "accuracy to character" is involved.
Sakurai's intelligence has nothing to do with the idea that holding characters to different standards of accuracy while emphasizing accuracy is textbook hypocrisy.

It's not arbitrary when there's two distinct contexts.
Seriously. If you read the entire quote on what Sakurai said, it's clearly based on design and balance alone.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Guys golden is the king of walls of text, dont be surprised if he brings dat sacred fire, he loves to debate. (for all the new people)

i relish reading it though, very insightful. *lurks again*

Oh before i do, i dont get why people find boring when she has cool combos and her moves come from a game, saks design m.o.
was never in the light magic camp. Imo the most boring is

If king k. Were a trap character i hope its done right, tho because of his silly nature, this is prob likely.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't doubt Sakurai seriously mused the idea of a playable Ridley and may at one point even have had him in some playable capacity before making his mind up that it just wasn't feasible.

I don't think it was a decision made for lack of trying. But I do think at this point it's one Sakurai won't come around on like he did Villager.

'Too big' was the truth all along.

Spoiler

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

My thoughts on Ridley - I'm in the boat that Sakurai tried to add Ridley as a playable character, but the time constraints and the way it was being developed conflicted with Sakurai's thoughts on Ridley, he decided that he'd be better off as a boss - and this I admit, was a thought that occurred to me a little bit before the release of Smash Wii U - that maybe Sakurai did think that if he wanted to capture the essence of that scene from Other M, then Ridley was going to be a boss.

As for his statement about character accuracy, I'm on the fence on that one - I can see why it would conflict with how Sakurai perceives Ridley, but in that case, if he can allow other characters to have perceived 'inaccuracies', then why can't the same apply to Ridley now that time limitations are up? But I guess the word's final, and I can live the game without a playable Ridley until they decide to add him. The least I ever asked for were Roy, Shulk and Little Mac - All I need now for DLC include my Boy Roy, Wolf and King K. Rool and lots more characters that I want... But now, I'm signing off for the night. And I wrote down my response to the Mega Poll that @ PushDustIn wrote up. Now to bed for reals.

 

[Diddy Kong]

To be honest, Ridley would've been cool. He'd be the newcomer I would use the most and it would give the roster a propper heavy weight newcomer. I do hope that they are gonna make Ridley playable eventually using ground and aerial moves from his Pyrosphere boss status, and Specials from the Ridley and Meta Ridley fights in Brawl. I don't see how this wouldn't be able to work.

But first, he'd need one of these:

 

[FalKoopa]

I kind of stopped caring for Ridley after the April '14 direct. I can't say Sakurai handled the issue well either, essentially giving teeth to the anti-Ridley group. >_>

I still think he can work, though. I guess Sakurai wasn't willing to let him in without an inventive moveset like all the other newcomers, and decided to relegate him to a boss. If him being a Flying Man was programmed as early as April '14, then he was scrapped quite early indeed.

 

[PushDustIn]

My thoughts on Ridley - I'm in the boat that Sakurai tried to add Ridley as a playable character, but the time constraints and the way it was being developed conflicted with Sakurai's thoughts on Ridley, he decided that he'd be better off as a boss - and this I admit, was a thought that occurred to me a little bit before the release of Smash Wii U - that maybe Sakurai did think that if he wanted to capture the essence of that scene from Other M, then Ridley was going to be a boss.

As for his statement about character accuracy, I'm on the fence on that one - I can see why it would conflict with how Sakurai perceives Ridley, but in that case, if he can allow other characters to have perceived 'inaccuracies', then why can't the same apply to Ridley now that time limitations are up? But I guess the word's final, and I can live the game without a playable Ridley until they decide to add him. The least I ever asked for were Roy, Shulk and Little Mac - All I need now for DLC include my Boy Roy, Wolf and King K. Rool and lots more characters that I want... But now, I'm signing off for the night. And I wrote down my response to the Mega Poll that @ PushDustIn wrote up. Now to bed for reals.

Thanks for writing down your responses! We just passed over 500 entries. SmashBoards has claimed 131 entries, while reddit has 297 entries.

 

[Frostwraith]

I 100% agree with @GoldenYuiitusin's points. Very clear and very knowledgeable on game design.

 

[Will]

Guys golden is the king of walls of text, dont be surprised if he brings dat sacred fire, he loves to debate. (for all the new people)

i relish reading it though, very insightful. *lurks again*

Oh before i do, i dont get why people find boring when she has cool combos and her moves come from a game, saks design m.o.
was never in the light magic camp. Imo the most boring is

If king k. Were a trap character i hope its done right, tho because of his silly nature, this is prob likely.

There is a difference between hype and interest.
How many did you see hyped for Palutena? How many of those don't use them? A lot? Well,once all of the newcomers were shown,they had a choice of many,and they probably didn't stick with their "hoped" character for that special someone that fits their playstyle.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I kind of stopped caring for Ridley after the April '14 direct. I can't say Sakurai handled the issue well either, essentially giving teeth to the anti-Ridley group. >_>

I still think he can work, though. I guess Sakurai wasn't willing to let him in without an inventive moveset like all the other newcomers, and decided to relegate him to a boss. If him being a Flying Man was programmed as early as April '14, then he was scrapped quite early indeed.

I think the removal of gliding also wasn't exactly a good thing for Ridley. Where it not for it's removal, I think we could've easily seen Ridley, but scaled down. I think that it was pretty clear that he was out since 'other boss appearances on stages' but the Ridley fanbase was too blind adamant on his inclusion to see it.

I personally hope to see gliding return in the next Smash. 's recovery without customs is just lackluster without it, and it just looked madly awesome on him. also suffers as a character from the lack of gliding, but nerfs where needed for him anyway.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Oh hey guys wha....

*notices the Ridley talk*

I...I swear I made this post. I am so confused.

 

[Dustydog96]

I'm not a huge fan of the metroid series so I may be subject to bias. But I don't see ridley working/being in smash 4. ever. He's already a stage boss. Is it even still a question if he'll be in or not?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I'm not a huge fan of the metroid series so I may be subject to bias. But I don't see ridley working/being in smash 4. ever. He's already a stage boss. Is it even still a question if he'll be in or not?

Mewtwo's a trophy already in the game, yet he's also a DLC character.

See, saying you can't because he's already in the game is being uncreative. If Ridley is DLC, all that would need is simply to modify the code so that another boss from the Pyrosphere replaces Ridley if he's played on Pyrosphere. It'd be slightly more work than Mewtwo, but it'd still be less than what could be classified as "absurd".

 

[PushDustIn]

I'm not a huge fan of the metroid series so I may be subject to bias. But I don't see ridley working/being in smash 4. ever. He's already a stage boss. Is it even still a question if he'll be in or not?

I don't see Ridley working either. 1. He's already in the game. 2. He's known as a big character. I know he has smaller incarnations, and Bowser has some huge appearances, but Bowser is known as being around the same size as Mario.

So far on the MegaSmashPoll (Over 870 responses!), Metroid is ranked 5th (With Earthbound being a close 6th) in favorite series.

Ridley has 246 votes so far. Bomberman, Banjo and Kazooie, Bayonetta and most of the cut veterans + King K. Rool / Rayman have more votes than Ridley (again, so far).

 

[Dustydog96]

Mewtwo's a trophy already in the game, yet he's also a DLC character.

See, saying you can't because he's already in the game is being uncreative. If Ridley is DLC, all that would need is simply to modify the code so that another boss from the Pyrosphere replaces Ridley if he's played on Pyrosphere. It'd be slightly more work than Mewtwo, but it'd still be less than what could be classified as "absurd".

But you totally ignore where he's already IN THE GAME. As in an object in a level. That'd be so silly to have him as a character vs'ing himself in a stage. Never going to happen.

 

[Arcanir]

Mewtwo's a trophy already in the game, yet he's also a DLC character.

See, saying you can't because he's already in the game is being uncreative. If Ridley is DLC, all that would need is simply to modify the code so that another boss from the Pyrosphere replaces Ridley if he's played on Pyrosphere. It'd be slightly more work than Mewtwo, but it'd still be less than what could be classified as "absurd".

I doubt it's that simple as they'd have to create an entirely new model for the boss, program it, and test it to see if it works without any glitches. You can't just copy/paste and expect it to work fine, they'd likely have to put around the same amount of work that they put into Ridley in the first place.

 

[Dustydog96]

I don't see Ridley working either. 1. He's already in the game. 2. He's known as a big character. I know he has smaller incarnations, and Bowser has some huge appearances, but Bowser is known as being around the same size as Mario.

So far on the MegaSmashPoll (Over 870 responses!), Metroid is ranked 5th (With Earthbound being a close 6th) in favorite series.

Ridley has 246 votes so far. Bomberman, Banjo and Kazooie, Bayonetta and most of the cut veterans + King K. Rool / Rayman have more votes than Ridley (again, so far).

Where can you view the results?

 

[Xzsmmc]

This isn't beating a dead horse. It's beating the bones of a dead horse whose flesh rotted years ago.

 

[Wintropy]

@ Xzsmmc is right, y'all. Does it really matter if Ridley's playable or not?

The chances of him being playable in this game are null and void.

The chances of him being playable in the next game are up in the air.

And that's that.

 

[Dustydog96]

This isn't beating a dead horse. It's beating the bones of a dead horse whose flesh rotted years ago.

It's not anyones fault that some people can't move on from the Ridley idea other than the ridley fan-boys. They can be hopeful all they want but in the end they're going to get a reply telling them it won't be happening with the majority agreeing that it won't because of current evidence. So sure It's a dead horse but the only people trying to reincarnate this VERY dead horse are the fan-boys of Ridley being in smash 4. Not trying to insult anyone but just how it is. And that's why we continue to have these rants and arguments.

 

[Wintropy]

It's not anyones fault that some people can't move on from the Ridley idea other than the ridley fan-boys. They can be hopeful all they want but in the end they're going to get a reply telling them it won't be happening with the majority agreeing that it won't because of current evidence. So sure It's a dead horse but the only people trying to reincarnate this VERY dead horse are the fan-boys of Ridley being in smash 4. Not trying to insult anyone but just how it is. And that's why we continue to have these rants and arguments.

Do you seriously want to stop these arguments and move on?

Then stop it with the high-and-mighty talk. Seriously. Cut it out right now. It doesn't help and only incenses the smouldering flames.

It doesn't matter if it's just "Ridley fanboys" bringing it back up or what the evidence suggests. What does matter is that incessant references to Ridley's status are only tempered by this egregious sense of moral superiority. We continue to have these rants and arguments because they invariably become rants and arguments. You can't come in here and say, "Yeah, well, Ridley's not playable, but I'm still going to brag about how much more right I am than anybody else." That's not solving the problem, that's exacerbating it.

If this issue is to be resolved, it needs to resolved peacefully and with mutual respect. Not "this is my side, that is your side", tit-for-tat arguments. Speaking from the perspective of somebody whom has seen the effects and results of, and personally been involved in, both sides of the argument, I can tell you that it solves nothing. Either show some respect or discuss something else entirely, okay?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you seriously want to stop these arguments and move on?

Then stop it with the high-and-mighty talk. Seriously. Cut it out right now. It doesn't help and only incenses the smouldering flames.

It doesn't matter if it's just "Ridley fanboys" bringing it back up or what the evidence suggests. What does matter is that incessant references to Ridley's status are only tempered by this egregious sense of moral superiority. We continue to have these rants and arguments because they invariably become rants and arguments. You can't come in here and say, "Yeah, well, Ridley's not playable, but I'm still going to brag about how much more right I am than anybody else." That's not solving the problem, that's exacerbating it.

If this issue is to be resolved, it needs to resolved peacefully and with mutual respect. Not "this is my side, that is your side", tit-for-tat arguments. Speaking from the perspective of somebody whom has seen the effects and results of, and personally been involved in, both sides of the argument, I can tell you that it solves nothing. Either show some respect or discuss something else entirely, okay?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Dustydog96]

Do you seriously want to stop these arguments and move on?

Then stop it with the high-and-mighty talk. Seriously. Cut it out right now. It doesn't help and only incenses the smouldering flames.

It doesn't matter if it's just "Ridley fanboys" bringing it back up or what the evidence suggests. What does matter is that incessant references to Ridley's status are only tempered by this egregious sense of moral superiority. We continue to have these rants and arguments because they invariably become rants and arguments. You can't come in here and say, "Yeah, well, Ridley's not playable, but I'm still going to brag about how much more right I am than anybody else." That's not solving the problem, that's exacerbating it.

If this issue is to be resolved, it needs to resolved peacefully and with mutual respect. Not "this is my side, that is your side", tit-for-tat arguments. Speaking from the perspective of somebody whom has seen the effects and results of, and personally been involved in, both sides of the argument, I can tell you that it solves nothing. Either show some respect or discuss something else entirely, okay?

I never really bragged about how I was right. If you look through my post you won't find signs of bragging more as my signs of how sure I am about this topic. I've exampled that people replying to ridley "hope" or whatever you call it is innevitable. So it really should stop or move to a Ridley thread. It's innevitable in a sense that I've proven it is. I counter-claimed their claim of ridley being in smash 4. Problem is there is no argument. So me calling it a claim isn't really a claim more as I was stating my view. So the replies not just mine, will continue as long as there are logical people on here. The fact that you judge me of trying to be all "high and mighty" and that I bragged, is in my opinion way off point. I'm merely responding the way I see and the way I would reply to anyone's face if I heard that in real life.

 

[Wintropy]

I never really bragged about how I was right. If you look through my post you won't find signs of bragging more as my signs of how sure I am about this topic. I've exampled that people replying to ridley "hope" or whatever you call it is innevitable. So it really should stop or move to a Ridley thread. It's innevitable in a sense that I've proven it is. I counter-claimed their claim of ridley being in smash 4. Problem is there is no argument. So me calling it a claim isn't really a claim more as I was stating my view. So the replies not just mine, will continue as long as there are logical people on here. The fact that you judge me of trying to be all "high and mighty" and that I bragged, is in my opinion way off point. I'm merely responding the way I see and the way I would reply to anyone's face if I heard that in real life.

I did look through your post. And intentional or otherwise, your tone conveyed a sense of bragging that I found to be quite distasteful.

And this response continues that trend. You're not offering any salient points to the contrary, merely reiterating what evidence can be seen without demonstrating why it's valid to your point or making any attempt to critique the opposition's point of view.

You're basically putting your finger on the stove and saying, "Wow, that's hot!" Yes, we know it's hot. That isn't contributing anything new to our understanding of the stove, or how we can improve its nature as a stove. It's just reiterating what we already know.

To wit: "Ridley is not playable because Sakurai said so and he is already in the game." Well, yeah. That's empirically verifiable by anybody. It's not new. But you haven't provided any rational justification other than making reference to the self-apparent evidence. That may be logical, but it's not satisfactory. And you're defending your case thereupon by suggesting that this unseen, yet ostensibly nebulous, coterie of "logical people" will back you up on your claim that isn't really a claim at all, but a simple comment on what we already know?

Okay.

You've proven my point. This discussion is going nowhere and I'm not even going to dignify it by beating this already long-deceased equine species.

 

[Dustydog96]

I did look through your post. And intentional or otherwise, your tone conveyed a sense of bragging that I found to be quite distasteful.

And this response continues that trend. You're not offering any salient points to the contrary, merely reiterating what evidence can be seen without demonstrating why it's valid to your point or making any attempt to critique the opposition's point of view.

You're basically putting your finger on the stove and saying, "Wow, that's hot!" Yes, we know it's hot. That isn't contributing anything new to our understanding of the stove, or how we can improve its nature as a stove. It's just reiterating what we already know.

To wit: "Ridley is not playable because Sakurai said so and he is already in the game." Well, yeah. That's empirically verifiable by anybody. It's not new. But you haven't provided any rational justification other than making reference to the self-apparent evidence. That may be logical, but it's not satisfactory. And you're defending your case thereupon by suggesting that this unseen, yet ostensibly nebulous, coterie of "logical people" will back you up on your claim that isn't really a claim at all, but a simple comment on what we already know?

Okay.

You've proven my point. This discussion is going nowhere and I'm not even going to dignify it by beating this already long-deceased equine species.

And you're continuing this trend of this getting no where. I wasn't trying to brag whatsoever, which you seemed to feel, I'm not very egotistical in real life just very confident and assure of what I say as right. So possibly a bit arrogant, sure. But the claim of me BRAGGING was totally missing the target, the way I see it. But I don't see what you think and what I think agreeing so I agree we should stop here. What I felt on the subject was stated, and someone had a problem with it. How things tend to go on the internet. You'd have to talk with someone eye to eye to really understand the EXACT vibe they're portraying.

 

[Kenith]

Time to change the subject! !

Let's talk about alternate costumes.

Which ones do you want to see?
I really want:

- Proto Man as a Mega Man alt
- Daisy as a Peach Alt
- Morgan as a Robin alt
- More colors for every character with two gender versions
- A REAL Blood Falcon alt since they screwed up his palette
- Impa as a Sheik alt
- Dry Bowser
- Cosmic Guide for Rosalina

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Time to change the subject! !
View attachment 41373

Let's talk about alternate costumes.

Which ones do you want to see?
I really want:

- Proto Man as a Mega Man alt
- Daisy as a Peach Alt
- Morgan as a Robin alt
- More colors for every character with two gender versions
- A REAL Blood Falcon alt since they screwed up his palette
- Impa as a Sheik alt
- Dry Bowser
- Cosmic Guide for Rosalina

White Tunic Link as well
Villager and Robin should've gotten the Mac treatment, 16 alts.
Grandmaster Robin should be an alt as well

 

[Kenith]

White Tunic Link as well
Villager and Robin should've gotten the Mac treatment, 16 alts.
Grandmaster Robin should be an alt as well

Oh my god, that text is so obnoxious.
I agree though. I wanted a white mage too.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Oh my god, that text is so obnoxious.
I agree though. I wanted a white mage too.

Sad thing is, I can't even read my own posts...
Worth it

 

[BKupa666]

My final thought on the previous subject is that there's no other character with whom people are so consistently unimaginative (living up to what @YoshiandToad mentioned a few days ago). It's no wonder Sakurai so consistently wows people with his movesets when people have so much trouble imagining anything other than what's literally right in front of them.

Anyhow, on the matter of costumes, I'm of the somewhat unpopular opinion that the more 'different character costumes' there are, the better. People will say that this doesn't do 'justice' to those characters, but I'd much rather run around onstage with, say, Dry Bowser and Funky Kong than bemoan that they're not throwing bones or firing boots, especially when they'd never become playable on their own to do those things anyway.

 

[Kenith]

Anyhow, on the matter of costumes, I'm of the somewhat unpopular opinion that the more 'different character costumes' there are, the better. People will say that this doesn't do 'justice' to those characters, but I'd much rather run around onstage with, say, Dry Bowser and Funky Kong than bemoan that they're not throwing bones or firing boots, especially when they'd never become playable on their own to do those things anyway.

I agree. You think Daisy has a snowball's chance in hell as anything but a Peach alt or filler clone? Of course not.
Although I didn't know Dry Bowser had a following for being his own character...

 

[Kalimdori]

Time to change the subject! !
View attachment 41373

Let's talk about alternate costumes.

Which ones do you want to see?
I really want:

- Proto Man as a Mega Man alt
- Daisy as a Peach Alt
- Morgan as a Robin alt
- More colors for every character with two gender versions
- A REAL Blood Falcon alt since they screwed up his palette
- Impa as a Sheik alt
- Dry Bowser
- Cosmic Guide for Rosalina

I'd like actual colors for Bowser Jr. Having the Koopalings is novel, but I'd like some actual palette swaps as well.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I agree with @GoldenYuiitusin in that I find Sakurai's viewpoint on the subject to be understandable, and I don't feel any shame as a Ridley and Metroid fan for thinking it's acceptable for him not to be playable, due to the circumstances. I understand why people are really upset that Ridley is not in since he's arguably the most deserving character not playable and more deserving than a lot of the characters who are playable. If you refuse to accept the reasons he's not playable than so be it, but at least try to accept that other people accept that he's not playable. Oh, and people who brag about Ridley not being in should stop being *****.

 

[AEMehr]

I...I swear I made this post. I am so confused.

Somebody merged the wrong posts, lol.

Not sure how to fix that s: but you deserve the likes so I'll give you one. c:

 

[Spazzy_D]

Somebody merged the wrong posts, lol.

Not sure how to fix that s: but you deserve the likes so I'll give you one. c:

Lol, I don't really care all that much, I was just confused.

 

[Will]

I...I swear I made this post. I am so confused.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Time to change the subject! !
View attachment 41373

Let's talk about alternate costumes.

Which ones do you want to see?
I really want:

- Proto Man as a Mega Man alt
- Daisy as a Peach Alt
- Morgan as a Robin alt
- More colors for every character with two gender versions
- A REAL Blood Falcon alt since they screwed up his palette
- Impa as a Sheik alt
- Dry Bowser
- Cosmic Guide for Rosalina

Hooded / for flips sake ;~;