Character Discussion Thread

[JamesDNaux]

Anything can work? Anything can change!


That doesn't mean it will, however.

 

[Kenith]

Anything can work yes, provided said character has enough source material to warrent a unique style.

Right. And "Retro Mario" would not work as regular Mario does everything he does, and anything else that could make him stand out would be a real stretch, and if we're going to have another Mario on the roster, there are two choices that would be much better.

 

[~Krystal~]

8-bit Mario could work as a Paper Mario FS transformation where he would increase in size and become a giant 8-bit Mario. Outside of that, I'm not seeing it.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'm fine with just Mario, Green Mario, Bad Mario, and Lucario, thanks.

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I think Paper Mario would be a great charcter because he is completely different from Mario

 

[~Krystal~]

He'll always be another Mario, just a better one.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Paper Mario is Mario.

That's like saying that Mario & Luigi from the Mario & Luigi games are different Marios & Luigis from the Mario & Luigi we know.
Say that five times fast.

Of course there was Dr. Mario, but I disliked him and any other idea for a second Mario.

 

[~Krystal~]

I suppose Toon Link would be Link. Who cares about the immense differences in the worlds of these variants anyway?

 

[JamesDNaux]

I suppose Toon Link would be Link. Who cares about the immense differences in the worlds of these variants anyway?

I never said I liked Toon Link.

Though at least Toon Link is actually a different person. He's not even blood related to the other Links, he just up and Link'd.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Paper Mario is Mario.

That's like saying that Mario & Luigi from the Mario & Luigi games are different Marios & Luigis from the Mario & Luigi we know.
Say that five times fast.

Of course there was Dr. Mario, but I disliked him and any other idea for a second Mario.

Paper Mario is better than Dr. Mario and *cough* "8-bit Mario." But I hate the Paper Mario suggestion just as much as any other variation of Mario. Give us a new ****ing character, damnit!

Subject change, let's go back to the proposition of a reveal at Comic Con. Veteran? Newcomer? Both? Nothing?

Potentially a veteran reveal, or potentially a Villains Trailer, but that's all I can think of. Most likely we'll just get nothing.

 

[Kenith]

Okay, I made two rosters I would like to share with you guys.
This first one is a guess on what the initial, non-DLC would look like. 54 characters.

King K. Rool and Dixie Kong are both on the roster. Yes, I expect them both. Dixie Kong could work as a semi-clone in a dual K Rool and Dixie reveal trailer.

I'm picturing a trailer where Diddy Kong is seen swinging on trees through the jungle, and then Dixie Kong follows him (Dixie Kong Swings In!). Then they arrive at the Gang-plank Galleon where Donkey Kong is being held captive. Diddy and Dixie fight of waves of Kremling pirates before King K. Rool barges in. Then the actual gameplay footage for him and Dixie Kong commences.

Anyway, yeah, still banking on Ridley too. Not much to say, except that I think everything we've seen so far, especially in the Smash Direct, hints towards him being playable.

As for the Wrestler & Reporter, not much to say here either, I like them and think they could be unique, I omitted Captain Toad for them in fact. They're below Wario since WarioWare and Rhythm Heaven are made by the same studio.

And Ghirahim is simply too fabulous to omit from my roster. Please understand.

---

OBJECTIONABLE DLC ROSTER REMOVED FOR PUBLIC HEALTH.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Okay, I made two rosters I would like to share with you guys.
This first one is a guess on what the initial, non-DLC would look like. 54 characters.



King K. Rool and Dixie Kong are both on the roster. Yes, I expect them both. Dixie Kong could work as a semi-clone in a dual K Rool and Dixie reveal trailer.

I'm picturing a trailer where Diddy Kong is seen swinging on trees through the jungle, and then Dixie Kong follows him (Dixie Kong Swings In!). Then they arrive at the Gang-plank Galleon where Donkey Kong is being held captive. Diddy and Dixie fight of waves of Kremling pirates before King K. Rool barges in. Then the actual gameplay footage for him and Dixie Kong commences.

Anyway, yeah, still banking on Ridley too. Not much to say, except that I think everything we've seen so far, especially in the Smash Direct, hints towards him being playable.

As for the Wrestler & Reporter, not much to say here either, I like them and think they could be unique, I omitted Captain Toad for them in fact. They're below Wario since WarioWare and Rhythm Heaven are made by the same studio.

And Ghirahim is simply too fabulous to omit from my roster. Please understand.

---

Now for the DLC roster.



This one is an insanely large 62 characters. The DLC characters are highlighted in green.

None of these DLC choices have any extensive reasoning behind them; it is, after all, hard to determine what the criteria for DLC content is.

But, I do have reasons for all the characters on this roster. I should mention that it's not an extended version of the one above.

The first one looks great bu-

-

...

Friends or not, this means war.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'm probably a bit late on this, but should this article depress me as much it does:

Edit: Can't post links yet since I have so few posts, but it's Destructoid's recent article on Dreams, Fears, and Predictions on the new Smash Bros.

Any article or thoughts against cool characters or the 50+ size roster always get my pessimistic side thinking a bit too much. Plus the small section that I think Holmes mentions about Amiibo's does make a point I'd never really considered. I don't remember if they said anything about all of the characters having Amiibo's, but I do know quite a few have been revealed. Now to be fair I do think that they are a bit off, but as always it's scary to think about not having characters in over something like the Amiibo integration or just a limited roster in general.

So I'm going to stick to my own personal belief and hope of 51-52 characters in Smash 4 and just hope for the best...

@Kenith: Your initial roster is something I would be pretty damn happy to see as the actual roster, though as much as I hate to say it you didn't include the Miis in the original roster list when I think we pretty much know they'll be there on day one. But still that would be an incredible roster to see and with a couple of edits is my dream (But still realistic) roster for Smash 4.

 

[Kenith]

@Kenith: Your initial roster is something I would be pretty damn happy to see as the actual roster, though as much as I hate to say it you didn't include the Miis in the original roster list when I think we pretty much know they'll be there on day one. But still that would be an incredible roster to see and with a couple of edits is my dream (But still realistic) roster for Smash 4.

I purposefully omitted Miis since I don't consider them characters in their own right. They're in the second one because I had room.

The first one looks great bu-

-

...

Friends or not, this means war.

I'm just spitballing.

I can't see them altering in-game content for new characters, though.
But you can replace Bayonetta with Rayman if you want. I don't like Bayonetta but I consider a plausible choice for DLC.

 

[Nat Perry]

It's pretty good, but Sceptile?

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'm just spitballing.

I can't see them altering in-game content for new characters, though.
But you can replace Bayonetta with Rayman if you want. I don't like Bayonetta but I consider a plausible choice for DLC.

Far more likely than Bayonetta, at any rate. We already have Sonic, she has no place.

They wouldn't even need to alter anything, they could just add more Rayman content while leaving his existing trophy as the Classic one (As they had Smash Trophies and Classic Trophies in Melee for each character.)

I'm more-so bothered that people even consider Bayonetta. Two Sega characters would be pushing it to extremes.
One per company is what it should stay at. Then we can get a Tecmo Koei and Squeenix character down the line as well.

 

[Kenith]

Again, the second DLC roster is an extra one, if you don't something on it, ignore it because all the DLC characters are interchangable.

@ JamesDNaux also, like it or not, Bayonetta's games are all on Nintendo platforms now. Sega and Nintendo are really close now too, if there's DLC characters she's fairly likely.

Though I don't think there will be.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Again, the second DLC roster is an extra one, if you don't something on it, ignore it because all the DLC characters are interchangable.

@ JamesDNaux also, like it or not, Bayonetta's games are all on Nintendo platforms now. Sega and Nintendo are really close now too, if there's DLC characters she's fairly likely.

Though I don't think there will be.

CliffJumper, what did you do with Kenith and why have you suddenly switched to Bayonetta?

Anyway, I do like your roster. It's pretty much mine, just with Ghirahim instead of Takamaru, no Krystal, and the Wrestler in my empty space. The lack of Takamaru being my main issue.

You know, I'm seriously thinking of adding the Wrestler. But I'm lazy so I'll just leave it as a a mystery box.

Your DLC one did seem a bit excessive, my main DLC ideas are Rayman (obviously), Lip, Happy Mask Salesman , and Pokemon Trainer (as a summon character who actually fights on the field).

 

[Kenith]

CliffJumper, what did you do with Kenith and why have you suddenly switched to Bayonetta?

I don't mean it like that. I take offense to that.

Anyway, I do like your roster. It's pretty much mine, just with Ghirahim instead of Takamaru, no Krystal, and the Wrestler in my empty space. The lack of Takamaru being my main issue.

I wanted to add Takamaru, but I can't bring myself to cut the Wrestler and Reporter because a Rhythm Heaven character is something I want to see (if they can't flesh them out enough)

The DLC roster was excessive because it was just me throwing ideas around.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I don't mean it like that. I take offense to that.

Well Bayonetta just has no reasons whatsoever to be in Smash. When you started mentioning how close Sega and Nintendo are, and how she's got a single game deal, I got those instant Cliffy vibes.

 

[Kenith]

Well Bayonetta just has no reasons whatsoever to be in Smash. When you started mentioning how close Sega and Nintendo are, and how she's got a single game deal, I got those instant Cliffy vibes.

I don't know why just have some sort of anti-Bayonetta thing going on. I don't even like Bayonetta, I'm just saying, she's a candidate for DLC (but I don't there will be, and she's not a prime candidate, obviously).

In other words, I think you're misinterpreting why she's on that roster.

EDIT: And don't compare me to @CliffJumper please. Not because I don't like him but because I don't him to because some sort of Smashboards scapegoat or something.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Eh, I just don't see her as even a remote possibility. Once that floodgate opens, we may as well add Dante alongside Mega Man, a second Namco character with Pac-Man, etc. Though there are those that would start drooling over Simon Belmont even with Snake..

It's not really a big deal, just joking around. Hence these that I put after something meant to be taken in jest.
Except for the Happy Mask Salesman, I'm half joking and half serious when I mention him.

 

[Nat Perry]

Great Fairy for Smash.

 

[Kenith]

Eh, I just don't see her as even a remote possibility. Once that floodgate opens, we may as well add Dante alongside Mega Man, a second Namco character with Pac-Man, etc. Though there are those that would start drooling over Simon Belmont even with Snake..

No, because none of those characters have any association with Nintendo.
Except Simon Belmont.

But are you seriously arguing more third-parties is a bad thing?
You are a hardcore advocate for Rayman, after all.

I mean, adding two characters from one third-parties is effectively the same thing as adding one from another company.

Except that it's not.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Okay, I made two rosters I would like to share with you guys.
This first one is a guess on what the initial, non-DLC would look like. 54 characters.

King K. Rool and Dixie Kong are both on the roster. Yes, I expect them both. Dixie Kong could work as a semi-clone in a dual K Rool and Dixie reveal trailer.

I'm picturing a trailer where Diddy Kong is seen swinging on trees through the jungle, and then Dixie Kong follows him (Dixie Kong Swings In!). Then they arrive at the Gang-plank Galleon where Donkey Kong is being held captive. Diddy and Dixie fight of waves of Kremling pirates before King K. Rool barges in. Then the actual gameplay footage for him and Dixie Kong commences.

Anyway, yeah, still banking on Ridley too. Not much to say, except that I think everything we've seen so far, especially in the Smash Direct, hints towards him being playable.

As for the Wrestler & Reporter, not much to say here either, I like them and think they could be unique, I omitted Captain Toad for them in fact. They're below Wario since WarioWare and Rhythm Heaven are made by the same studio.

And Ghirahim is simply too fabulous to omit from my roster. Please understand.

---

Now for the DLC roster. Disclaimer: The DLC characters are extremely loose guesses.

Spoiler

This one is an insanely large 62 characters. The DLC characters are highlighted in green.

None of these DLC choices have any extensive reasoning behind them; it is, after all, hard to determine what the criteria for DLC content is.

But, I do have reasons for all the characters on this roster. I should mention that it's not an extended version of the one above.

Meets my basic criteria (Shulk, Ridley, DK Rep, Ness, Lucas) but I find it disheartening that there is no room for Isaac or ANY RETRO character on a 62 character roster.

 

[Kenith]

Meets my basic criteria (Shulk, Ridley, DK Rep, Ness, Lucas) but I find it disheartening that there is no room for Isaac or ANY RETRO character on a 62 character roster.

Yeah, I realize that, and my reasoning for that is because I figure most of the DLC characters (if many) would be tied to promotion.
Among them, Impa for Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta for Bayonetta 2, Sceptile for Alpha Sapphire/Omega Ruby.

Though, once again, I made that DLC roster rather quickly, I didn't exactly think it out.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Yeah, I realize that, and my reasoning for that is because I figure most of the DLC characters (if many) would be tied to promotion.
Among them, Impa for Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta for Bayonetta 2, Sceptile for Alpha Sapphire/Omega Ruby.

Though, once again, I made that DLC roster rather quickly, I didn't exactly think it out.

You have no have faith in a new Mach Rider or Mysterious Murasame Castle game. It's going to happen. #believe

 

[JamesDNaux]

No, because none of those characters have any association with Nintendo.
Except Simon Belmont.

But are you seriously arguing more third-parties is a bad thing?
You are a hardcore advocate for Rayman, after all.

I mean, adding two characters from one third-parties is effectively the same thing as adding one from another company.

Except that it's not.

Again, only one from each company. Once a single company has two, then it's just special treatment.

We could have ten third parties for all I care, so long as that's ten different big companies.

 

[Cobalsh]

Hey, @Rockaphin, @ aldelaro5 , get over here, we've got people calling Paper Mario "another Mario".

 

[aldelaro5]

Hey, @Rockaphin, @ aldelaro5 , get over here, we've got people calling Paper Mario "another Mario".

Just let me some time to read. Also, finally this isn't about dark pit

 

[Kenith]

Again, only one from each company. Once a single company has two, then it's just special treatment.
We could have ten third parties for all I care, so long as that's ten different big companies.

Why?

Why is one character each so important?
That's such an arbitrary rule.

And one, I might add, you probably created for the sole purpose of excluding Bayonetta. Or vise versa.

Either way, if Sakurai legitimately wants ten third-party characters, there are many characters from Capcom or Namco that are more deserving of a game celebrating Nintendo history than Snake.

 

[Cobalsh]

Only if Crash Bandicoot gets in Smash Bros will I want Snake, because then PlayStation fans will be pissed.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Why?

Why is one character each so important?
That's such an arbitrary rule.

And one, I might add, you probably created for the sole purpose of excluding Bayonetta. Or vise versa.

Either way, if Sakurai legitimately wants ten third-party characters, there are many characters from Capcom or Namco that are more deserving of a game celebrating Nintendo history than Snake.

Firstly, no. This is a rule that I didn't even make up, it's just general rule of thumb that was passed around during Brawl times.

Secondly, none of the third parties deserve to be in, so singling out Snake isn't helping your case.

The reason why I would be bothered if we got a second Sega/Namco/Capcom/whatever character? Special treatment.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Okay, I made two rosters I would like to share with you guys.
This first one is a guess on what the initial, non-DLC would look like. 54 characters.

King K. Rool and Dixie Kong are both on the roster. Yes, I expect them both. Dixie Kong could work as a semi-clone in a dual K Rool and Dixie reveal trailer.

I'm picturing a trailer where Diddy Kong is seen swinging on trees through the jungle, and then Dixie Kong follows him (Dixie Kong Swings In!). Then they arrive at the Gang-plank Galleon where Donkey Kong is being held captive. Diddy and Dixie fight of waves of Kremling pirates before King K. Rool barges in. Then the actual gameplay footage for him and Dixie Kong commences.

Anyway, yeah, still banking on Ridley too. Not much to say, except that I think everything we've seen so far, especially in the Smash Direct, hints towards him being playable.

As for the Wrestler & Reporter, not much to say here either, I like them and think they could be unique, I omitted Captain Toad for them in fact. They're below Wario since WarioWare and Rhythm Heaven are made by the same studio.

And Ghirahim is simply too fabulous to omit from my roster. Please understand.

---

Now for the DLC roster. Disclaimer: The DLC characters are extremely loose guesses.

Spoiler

This one is an insanely large 62 characters. The DLC characters are highlighted in green.

None of these DLC choices have any extensive reasoning behind them; it is, after all, hard to determine what the criteria for DLC content is.

But, I do have reasons for all the characters on this roster. I should mention that it's not an extended version of the one above.

Why is Wrestler highlighted in green on your DLC roster, if he is on your main roster?

 

[Kenith]

Firstly, no. This is a rule that I didn't even make up, it's just general rule of thumb that was passed around during Brawl times.

So, still an arbitrary rule? My point still stands. If Sakurai wants two Sega characters or two Capcom characters, there's nothing stopping him except maybe Nintendo (and obviously they don't really have a reason to object to promoting other company's games if they're Nintendo exclusive).

It's a fan created "pattern" just like Chrom replacing Ike because Ike "replaced" Roy.

Secondly, none of the third parties deserve to be in, so singling out Snake isn't helping your case.

That's an opinion.

The reason why I would be bothered if we got a second Sega/Namco/Capcom/whatever character? Special treatment.

You don't think close business partners' characters that have a history with Nintendo don't deserve special treatment?
As we now see, Pac-Man has unique stages for each version of Smash while Mega Man has the same stage on both versions.

Wouldn't that be special treatment too?

 

[aldelaro5]

Hey, @Rockaphin, @ aldelaro5 , get over here, we've got people calling Paper Mario "another Mario".

Just read and I think you misinterpreted.

The following is in theory only.

Paper Mario is Mario. No one can deny this it's objective. Because the character literally is him.

That, I knew that. What I don't like is in practice to say that he HAS to be like him (toon link case even with effort, it's most likely semi clone).

I even realised that if you check the character as a whole, yes he's mario, but the way this mario is made is kinda special if you want. It mostly has to do with how his series is different from the platforming one despite being a branch of it. The posts above clearly show that this has been understood so I have no issue with that.

I mean, I will be honest, it's kinda hard to truly tell his potential without playing at least one game that isn't sticker star. So, as long as he's not viewed as a MANDATORY clone, I'm fine. It's just that it doesn't feels right for me as I'll better have a character that would be most likely a clone or nothing at all. I really don't think they would waste time to do his models which seems to be very different to even reuse the Mario one for the only purpose of having a clone. If you you want a clone, it doesn't make sense to put a lot of priority on it, but more on the bottom of the list.

So, basically, just read carefully next time. I don't have to hate everyone who dislike him

 

[Kenith]

The only way I could see them adding Paper Mario is a clone of Mario.

Just kidding. That would be stupid and the biggest waste of a slot in the history of ever.

Why is Wrestler highlighted in green on your DLC roster, if he is on your main roster?

I should mention that it's not an extended version of the one above.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Just read and I think you misinterpreted.

The following is in theory only.

Paper Mario is Mario. No one can deny this it's objective. Because the character literally is him.

That, I knew that. What I don't like is in practice to say that he HAS to be like him (toon link case even with effort, it's most likely semi clone).

I even realised that if you check the character as a whole, yes he's mario, but the way this mario is made is kinda special if you want. It mostly has to do with how his series is different from the platforming one despite being a branch of it. The posts above clearly show that this has been understood so I have no issue with that.

I mean, I will be honest, it's kinda hard to truly tell his potential without playing at least one game that isn't sticker star. So, as long as he's not viewed as a MANDATORY clone, I'm fine. It's just that it doesn't feels right for me as I'll better have a character that would be most likely a clone or nothing at all. I really don't think they would waste time to do his models which seems to be very different to even reuse the Mario one for the only purpose of having a clone. If you you want a clone, it doesn't make sense to put a lot of priority on it, but more on the bottom of the list.

So, basically, just read carefully next time. I don't have to hate everyone who dislike him

I've mentioned before that, yes, Paper Mario probably wouldn't be a clone. I don't think it matters, though, we don't need yet another "alternate version" of an existing character. If we must represent the Mario RPG's, let's get Fawful in here instead.

 

[Kenith]

I've mentioned before that, yes, Paper Mario probably wouldn't be a clone. I don't think it matters, though, we don't need yet another "alternate version" of an existing character. If we must represent the Mario RPG's, let's get Fawful in here instead.

If we get a Mario RPG character, it would probably be from Mario & Luigi.

But I want a Paper Mario character!
Particularly

 

[ElPanandero]

Again, only one from each company. Once a single company has two, then it's just special treatment.

We could have ten third parties for all I care, so long as that's ten different big companies.

Happy Mask Salesman as Mokujin for Smash!

But actually, I wanna ask again, what do people feel in regards to a mokujin for smash?