Midwest [Dec 27, 2014] Overswarm's private Smash 4 House Tournament 2! (Taylor Mill, KY)

[Absol]

Saturdays are my worst match up :C

I could probably handle the 20th before Christmas and the 3rd after new years. Not this week though.

 

[Shadow the Past]

I loled at
10:00 PM - Tournament Hopefully Ends
12:00 AM - Tournament Has To End

Guys, events run that late with one game running singles and doubles. These guys are doing Wii singles (with pools) and doubles, Brawl singles, Melee singles (with pools) and doubles, and PM singles (with pools) and doubles.

The last Brawl tournament I ran at Arcade Legacy had 60+ entrants with doubles, singles pools, and singles bracket. I ran it just about as efficiently as possible because I DID NOT ENTER in order to ensure it was run as best as possible. That event ended around 9 PM IIRC. This tournament is trying to run 3 smash events and a smash mod event with singles and doubles with pools for all except one game. That is ridiculous. I understand that people like all forms of smash, but that's too much for one 12 hour period (IE MUST be out of the venue by midnight). This is also assuming the tournaments start exactly at noon.

With a schedule like that favoritism will be shown to one game over the other either in the form of set ups, streams, match timing, or other ways.

I would personally prefer to go to an OS tournament where all the set ups/ play time/ friendlies are dedicated to Wii U as I want to concentrate on this game and improve not only myself but the local players with similar interests.

I definitely agree with you. I just wanted to be sure OS knew about the event and the possibility of it stealing attendance.

 

[Overswarm]

If it's not solo Smash 4, it's typically not on my radar

 

[Katakiri]

I'd be down for an event this weekend. Otherwise I'll probably just go to PeppyWil's 7-event madhouse.

 

[Mister Eric]

OS has the prettiest blue eyes.

 

[Overswarm]

heck yeah I do


Mister Eric, if you're not doing anything on saturday we're playing smash at my house (and probably also other goofball games like nintendoland / mario kart / mario party later in the evening).

 

[Mister Eric]

heck yeah I do


Mister Eric, if you're not doing anything on saturday we're playing smash at my house (and probably also other goofball games like nintendoland / mario kart / mario party later in the evening).

im doing the tourney at CSR =[ sowwie </3

 

[Overswarm]

im doing the tourney at CSR =[ sowwie </3

That is good, because my house is filled with the norovirus

 

[Overswarm]

Doing a house tournament on the 27th! My house is no longer infected! :B


Smash 4 singles, doubles. If we have time we'll do some 4v4 crews and whatnot. :D

$5 venue (food is provided with this money)
$5 single entry
$5 doubles entry

IF YOU ATTEND YOU ARE PLAYING DOUBLES. As this is a limited seating event, doubles is mandatory unless we get an odd number and someone wants to sit out. If you do not have a teammate one will be assigned to you.



IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND, POST IN THE THREAD SO I CAN ADD YOU TO THE LIST.


My stage list is basically the same as Hilt's. I pushed Wuhu Island to doubles only and I moved Skyloft and Castle Siege to starters because Town and City and Smashville are basically the same stage and it forced a flat/plat stage.

 

[Infern Angelis]

I'll be there

 

[Today]

I'll be here!
Saeed as well!!
*posted in said thread* !

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Definitely considering it. I'll see what my Saturday's looking like.

 

[Infern Angelis]

Smash64 will be going too

 

[DtJ Hilt]

When do you leave for Texas?

Edit: Yeah, I'm pretty much confirmed at this point. Count me in.

 

[Amida64]

Kero and I will be here. Also, can Circuit not be legal? If I need to make a case as to why just ask :\

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Probably won't be able to make it. Saving up for KiT and Apex.

 

[Overswarm]

Kero and I will be here. Also, can Circuit not be legal? If I need to make a case as to why just ask :\

Make the case, we played half a dozen matches on it and found no issue with it.

If possible, show replay/video

 

[Amida64]

I have no way of recording anything :\

Why do we turn of items? They implement a luck factor that can disrupt the match and make skill irrelevant or non-existent in many situations. But there are plenty of luck factors that exist in our current, no-item ruleset, right? Such as in Delphino, or Pokemon Stadium, where which part of the stage appears next is completely random. The thing is, the luck factor of items is much higher, and much more disrupting than with these stages, and the luck factor of these stages is not enough to warrant a ban.

In Circuit, the stage randomly creates a ceiling or wall from the track, just to give an example: Ness does a back throw at kill percent, the wall appears, and they survive. Due to how often those walls appear, as well as the amount of interference and luck they create; I believe it is very close/similar to that of items imo :\

 

[Infern Angelis]

When do you leave for Texas?

Edit: Yeah, I'm pretty much confirmed at this point. Count me in.

I leave the 30th. Y.b.M. Will also be making it to this.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Mario Circuit is an absolutely fine stage. The ceiling is not random. Nothing in the stage is "random".

I leave the 30th. Y.b.M. Will also be making it to this.

Yeah, no way I'm missing this.

 

[Overswarm]

I have no way of recording anything :\

Why do we turn of items? They implement a luck factor that can disrupt the match and make skill irrelevant or non-existent in many situations. But there are plenty of luck factors that exist in our current, no-item ruleset, right? Such as in Delphino, or Pokemon Stadium, where which part of the stage appears next is completely random. The thing is, the luck factor of items is much higher, and much more disrupting than with these stages, and the luck factor of these stages is not enough to warrant a ban.

In Circuit, the stage randomly creates a ceiling or wall from the track, just to give an example: Ness does a back throw at kill percent, the wall appears, and they survive. Due to how often those walls appear, as well as the amount of interference and luck they create; I believe it is very close/similar to that of items imo :\

I would suggest playing mario circuit more; the stage isn't random. If you played Mario Kart 8 you might be familiar with it, it's in a "track" format

We also don't ban items due to "luck factor"; if we banned things solely due to luck we'd remove Peach and G&W. The two biggest reasons stages are banned are things called "overcentralization" and "degenerate gameplay" (which is really a specific form of overcentralization...).

Oddities, unique traits, or one-off events typically don't ban a stage. Smashville can kill ness (up+b hits balloon), Duck Hunt can kill zelda if she up+bs in the dog's location while he appears, etc., etc., but they don't mean 'ban this stage' because they haven't shown overcentralization or degenerate gameplay. No one CPs Ness to Smashville so the balloon kills them.

"Gamer" is banned because it centralizes almost solely on the "mom" hazard; after you play on this for a long time, strategies develop that is solely based on the mom hazard and these strategies become less of a "I know the stage and you don't" and more of a "You have to deal with this, forever". It becomes an integral part of smash brothers on that stage.

Spiking someone who fell in the water in Delfino is a stage-related strategy as well, but the game doesn't centralize solely on that strategy. It's a thing that can occur there, but it isn't what the stage is. Just an extra factor.

"Palutena's Temple" or whatever the 8 player stage is is banned because of "degenerate gameplay". The optimal strategy is to run away and move out the timer. Running away with Fox works as a strategy, but it is THE strategy on a stage like Hyrule Temple in Melee -- degenerate gameplay. Great Cave Offensive is in a similar boat with how you need to kill people with the fire.

Wuhu Island is a stage that I believe is already suffering from degenerate gameplay in its first stages. The majority of the transformations encourage stalemates and the size of the stage makes a timeout a near-optimal strategy. I could be wrong on this.


If we played Circuit more, got more familiar with the stage, and then all out matches became determined solely by stage factors outside of our control? Sure, it'd go in the ban pile. But so far all I've seen is a normal moving stage with a car hazard that moves in. By all means though, on the 27th you should come up and play some matches against me there and show me the negatives you see in person.

 

[Overswarm]

Probably won't be able to make it. Saving up for KiT and Apex.

That ain't a winnin' attitude

back in my day a young up 'n comer went to tournaments to make money!

hardy har har

 

[Shadow the Past]

Probably can't make it due to family. Hopefully next time.

 

[Amida64]

I would suggest playing mario circuit more; the stage isn't random. If you played Mario Kart 8 you might be familiar with it, it's in a "track" format

We also don't ban items due to "luck factor"; if we banned things solely due to luck we'd remove Peach and G&W. The two biggest reasons stages are banned are things called "overcentralization" and "degenerate gameplay" (which is really a specific form of overcentralization...).

Oddities, unique traits, or one-off events typically don't ban a stage. Smashville can kill ness (up+b hits balloon), Duck Hunt can kill zelda if she up+bs in the dog's location while he appears, etc., etc., but they don't mean 'ban this stage' because they haven't shown overcentralization or degenerate gameplay. No one CPs Ness to Smashville so the balloon kills them.

"Gamer" is banned because it centralizes almost solely on the "mom" hazard; after you play on this for a long time, strategies develop that is solely based on the mom hazard and these strategies become less of a "I know the stage and you don't" and more of a "You have to deal with this, forever". It becomes an integral part of smash brothers on that stage.

Spiking someone who fell in the water in Delfino is a stage-related strategy as well, but the game doesn't centralize solely on that strategy. It's a thing that can occur there, but it isn't what the stage is. Just an extra factor.

"Palutena's Temple" or whatever the 8 player stage is is banned because of "degenerate gameplay". The optimal strategy is to run away and move out the timer. Running away with Fox works as a strategy, but it is THE strategy on a stage like Hyrule Temple in Melee -- degenerate gameplay. Great Cave Offensive is in a similar boat with how you need to kill people with the fire.

Wuhu Island is a stage that I believe is already suffering from degenerate gameplay in its first stages. The majority of the transformations encourage stalemates and the size of the stage makes a timeout a near-optimal strategy. I could be wrong on this.


If we played Circuit more, got more familiar with the stage, and then all out matches became determined solely by stage factors outside of our control? Sure, it'd go in the ban pile. But so far all I've seen is a normal moving stage with a car hazard that moves in. By all means though, on the 27th you should come up and play some matches against me there and show me the negatives you see in person.

I feel like the interference is too strong, I was completely wrong about the random factor, lol. Tbh, I wish gamer was legal, but I understand why it is banned. Circuit seems only a bit better, but that could be my gamer love bias speaking. Overall, if it stays that is fine, but it will always be my ban, haha.

 

[DtJ SquidBurrMoneyBurr]

if there's still room I'd like to attend ^_^

 

[DtJ Composer]

Is it

could it be

the return of the People's Champ

 

[Kel]

I feel like the interference is too strong, I was completely wrong about the random factor, lol. Tbh, I wish gamer was legal, but I understand why it is banned. Circuit seems only a bit better, but that could be my gamer love bias speaking. Overall, if it stays that is fine, but it will always be my ban, haha.

What? In Gamer the mom randomly appears and kills the players in a random area.

In Circuit you see slow-moving shy guys on karts driving toward the screen as if they were referencing Austin Powers when the guy is about to get run over with a steam roller.

In fact, throughout all of the tournament matches I've played there, I have not seen a car KO yet. That's pretty pretty telling that the stage isn't too bad. And it's especially something to take note of when you are trying to liken the stage to Gamer.

Don't get me wrong, most places will probably ban Circuit from their stage lists, but these people are also doing no customs and 2 stocks, so they're kind of lost causes anyway.

 

[Overswarm]

if there's still room I'd like to attend ^_^

room there is


If anyone is teaming with someone in particular and let me know, I can color code it in the first post. Makes it easier for people to find teammates, since doubles is mandatory due to the entry cap.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I'm teaming with the People's Champ

 

[Amida64]

What? In Gamer the mom randomly appears and kills the players in a random area.

In Circuit you see slow-moving shy guys on karts driving toward the screen as if they were referencing Austin Powers when the guy is about to get run over with a steam roller.

In fact, throughout all of the tournament matches I've played there, I have not seen a car KO yet. That's pretty pretty telling that the stage isn't too bad. And it's especially something to take note of when you are trying to liken the stage to Gamer.

Don't get me wrong, most places will probably ban Circuit from their stage lists, but these people are also doing no customs and 2 stocks, so they're kind of lost causes anyway.

It is random, but from my experience, the only way the mom hits anyone is if you are launched into it. The only real reasons for banning it are because of how early she kills, and how the stage is different every time.

 

[Overswarm]

It is random, but from my experience, the only way the mom hits anyone is if you are launched into it. The only real reasons for banning it are because of how early she kills, and how the stage is different every time.

You still misunderstand why stages are legitimately banned!

Many stages can be removed for arbitrary reasons; if one stage can be banned for an arbitrary reason, all stages are equally bannable.

To prevent the kind of goofball nature of the above scenario, we only focus on overcentralization and degenerate gameplay.

You can generally find out if a stage needs to be looked at by asking a few key questions:

1) Does this stage have a particular character or strategy (e.g., timing out) that is so successful that it can be considered mandatory and/or overpowered?

2) Does this stage have features that directly control the match to a large degree regardless of the player's knowledge of the stage?

3) Does this stage produce variance in results that is in stark contrast to other legal stages?


For the stage Gamer you can see #2 and #3 are both "yes" -- regardless of your knowledge of the stage, the mom hazard comes with little warning and can easily control the flow of the match by itself. This alone isn't means to ban a stage, but something to look at; PS1 in Melee does the same thing with its transformations. Due to the strength of the stage hazard, a high amount of variance can be found on the stage at equal levels of play. Variance is the devil in competitive environments.

If you could show that variance occurs on a consistent basis on Mario Circuit, it'd be removed. Sometimes these things take time, but it's important not to jump the gun -- stages provide unique outlets for different characters and playstyles and removing them early hurts the metagame.

 

[Overswarm]

A notice to all players coming on saturday for the house tournament:

There will be a amiibo side event. Bring your amiibo if you have one!

I have some ideas as to how an amiibo event could work and not require all entrants to own/bring an amiibo but am still working out the kinks. If you have an amiibo, you should bring one. :D

High level, equipment, customs, whatever goes with amiibos

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Amida, not only does Mom kill at 60%~, but she also does 20% on hit and breaks FULL SHIELDS.

Shy Guys on Mario Circuit deal 10% and kill at over 130%. Gamer centers around taking advantage of Mom, it's easy to catch an opponent between yourself and an easy kill from Mom.

 

[Infern Angelis]

I'll be teaming with Y.b.M.

 

[Katakiri]

I can't bring a TV this time but I'll still bring my Wii U/Adapter for setups if there's a spare TV. I'll bring composite cables too in case we need to get ghetto.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I'll bring a set-up a monitor and a recording set-up so you know

**MAX CPM ALERT**

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I won't be able to bring a TV either, but I'll have my Wii U and adapter. Also may need a partner, in case Joey's teaming with Kero instead of Amida.

 

[Overswarm]

Bring composite cables! I have multiple CRTs and only two HD TVs in the house

Bring setups :D :D :D

 

[Overswarm]

also if you've got a friend that you want to bring that didn't RSVP, still should be all good to bring 'em over

 

[DtJ SquidBurrMoneyBurr]

Dtj mobile should arrive alittle past 12