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Not a Tier List: Montage's Character ratings: New Info: Meta, Sonic, Snake, Lucario

Discussion in 'Brawl General Discussion' started by dmbrandon, Feb 4, 2008.

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  1. dmbrandon

    dmbrandon Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,257
    Location:
    The Sun.
    This is Montage's list, and impressions of the Characters in Brawl. This is our opinion. If you know something, tell us, don't flame us. :D Keep in mind, this is an early list, and will be updated regularly. I hope you enjoy.

    Note: If you've any information/evidence that can prove a characters worth/worthlessness please do tell. I'll be updating regularly!

    Note2: Do not ask me questions that are explained in this here analysis.


    Important! The sub-rankings do not make up the overall ranking! It is not always an average!!!! It's important to understand their usefulness. Some characters just outplay others. thanks!

    Credit to Meta-Kirby to the ranking idea. Credit to Lonsar for recovery adds.

    Mario:
    Mario's attacks are weak, and hard to connect. His cape can still be used for recovery, while the downB(Now Va.) is not as helpful. His fireballs are better, and he's a bit faster. All around, a downgrade.
    Edit 1: Mario's Cape seems to have a unnoticed, almost invisible longer range. This give the ability to dodge more smash attacks. But with the addition of multiple airdodges, it's not as important. His natural combo works well with jabcanceling into the cape, but if powershielded, he will get grabbed. +1.0
    Edit 2: Ariel moves have great comboing ability, and fludd is good for edge gaurding. Still not as much potential as Luigi. +1.0
    Power: 6
    Combo ability: 6
    Speed: 5
    Knockback: 4
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 9 With Fludd from up high. 7 otherwise.
    Rating: 6/10


    Luigi:

    Maybe the most improved. He's a beast. Faster, Stronger, and way more able to combo. Not much lag on landing, so big step over those laggy characters. Without L-canceling, luigi seems more viable for a 1st place finish in a tournament.
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 7
    Speed: 6
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 6
    Recovery: 10 (If you can tap fast enough)
    Rating: 7/10

    Peach:
    Balanced as hell. Float Canceling is still around, but her ground moves have gotten a bit of a nerf. Her ^tilt is fantastic now, and her SideB seems usable in combat! Turnip are not as good, as they disappear if they hit shields. Downsmash is the biggest nerf in this game.
    Edit 1: Float canceling is not in the game. He bair and Uair have no lag, but if you miss the Fair, you're in trouble. Found more use in her ground game with Fsmash and dtilt. +.5
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 7
    Speed: 4
    Knockback: 5
    Weight: 6
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: 7/10

    Bowser:
    Faster. A lot faster. UpB is still gross as hell, but without l-canceling, you have to make sure you hit every move. If you miss, prepare to get punished. Tilt attacks seem stonger, and the upair is a lot more rewarding when you land it.
    Power: 8
    Combo ability: 3
    Speed: 2
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 9
    Recovery: 5
    Rating: 5/10

    DK:
    Improved. Fast, still strong. The probelm is, people stay alive for a lot longer, so donkey kong's Uair won't be comboing to death. Just don't play with Final Smashes on. His is the worst.
    Edit 1: DK's Bair, and Fair are close to Broken. His DKpunch has been nerfed, but his recovery is improved. The DB, and SideB are still close to useless. But his combo-ability is top notch. + 2.5
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 7
    Speed: 6
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 7
    Recovery: 6
    Rating: 6.5/10


    Diddy: (Mained by crew member: Ninja Edd)
    Viable for best in the game. FAST. Strong, and has priority. Banana game keeps his metagame impossible to read. Huge recovery, and multiple, easy to use spikes. He is the new Fox. Straight forward.
    Edit 1: With it made easier to grab items from the air/ground, the bananas can be used against him in the worst way. Has trouble with smaller characters. (Trust me, it's baaad) -1.0
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 9
    Speed: 9
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: 9/10

    Yoshi:
    Yoshi. is. (Still.) the. worst. All moves have been nerfed, it seems. Still no recovery. No DJC makes him to slow and easy to kill. Without DI Airdodging, he's a joke.
    Edit 1: His double jump has half as many juggernaut frames as melee, however, he can use his UB two times. His Uair, and Bair have no lag on landing, and the Bair does pretty sick damage. The Fsmashes range was decreased, but it will ko at around 110% all in all. +2.0
    Edit 2: Bair combos increase the game further. easy to link into smashes for kills. +1.0
    Power: 5
    Combo ability: 5
    Speed: 5
    Knockback: 4
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 3
    Rating: 4/10

    Wario:
    Master of DI. He's fast, and moderately strong. Lack of a good moveset makes him somewhat unplayable. A lot of KO moves. gooood in teams.
    Edit 1: Wario is the master of the air. He can chain throw, and recover with the best of them. His moves combo into finishers EXTREMELY well. + 2.0

    Power: 5
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 4
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 4
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: 6/10


    Link:
    Link is much faster, but all your safe, normal Melee combos are gone. Back air is weak, and not good for comboing, while his fair is fast and has no landing lag. His boomerang doesn't do damage on the way back, only drags them towards you. This is a mixed blessing. They don't get stunned. They just hurt you. It's a shame. UpB is nerfed, and he dies a lot earlier than other characters. Hookshot comes out faster, but it's short, and more lag if you miss.
    Edit 1: Link is terrible, so far. None of his moves combo well, the gale boomerrang is awful. He has the fastest fall speed, and one of the least height UB recovery. As of now, Link just doesn't seem to have a major advantage over any character.
    Power: 5
    Combo ability: 5
    Speed: 5
    Knockback: 5
    Weight: 8
    Recovery: 6
    Rating: 5/10


    Zelda:
    BETTER! Oh god, it's like she's a character now. Din's Fire is ****ing massive, and Forore's Wind is much easier to manage. Her attacks combo better, and her up-air is useful as hell now. Her kick is harder to sweetspot, and Naryu's Love is Smaller than she is, but trust me, she's better. Her DB is no longer the best move in the game. lolz
    Edit 1: Din's fire is even better than we thought. Hyphen dashing (As Ryoko predicted) is far broken. Zelda is VERY good in this game. Forore's Wind hurts hurts when she reappears. +1.5
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 5
    Speed: 4
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 4
    Recovery: 6
    Rating: 7.5/10

    Shiek:
    It's Shiek. No needle canceling, but they stun more now. The whip is a tether recovery. her Dair spikes now. She's... Shiek. Without gimping, she loses a lot of her game, but hell. Burn down works just as well.
    Edit 1: Under further review, her Nair, Fair, and Bair have lost some KO ability. Her Dair is only usable half the time. -1.0
    Power: 6
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 8
    Knockback: 5
    Weight: 6
    Recovery: 5
    Rating: 7/10

    Ganondorf:
    Without L-Canceling, he's just... Hard. Like Bowser, if you miss, you're gonna be in a world of hurt. His Valcano Kick has a suction effect in the front, and his warlock punch is faster. Without the extra jump after the DB makes his recovery terrible. Honestly, he's not nearly as strong as he should be. Shame...
    Edit 1: His sideB can suicide kill! He can tech chase better than any character so far, and he has a lot of power. smaller characters can be killed at low %. Strongest in game overall. + 2.5
    Power: over 9000
    Combo ability: 2 (with tech chasing, 7)
    Speed: 3
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 8
    Recovery: 4
    Rating: 6.5/10


    Toon Link:
    Wow. WOP Bairs. High Jumping. Tether Recovery. Fast. Good Projectiles. TL is a force to be reckoned with. He won't die unless he hits a wall. He's light, and will die early, but man, he's everywhere. He can combo for a long time, as well. His moves just seem to... Link. lol Anytime someone picks him, be afraid.
    Edit 1: Can 0-death a lot of people. Viable for best in the game. +1.0
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 10
    Speed: 8
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: 9.5/10

    Samus:
    Bad: You can't do any attacks out of bomb jumping until you're clear of it. Tether recovery won't over lap edgehogging. Her Nair is nerfed. Utilt is much slower.
    Good: Powerful. Charge blast is faster to charge. Can use the whip in the air multiple times. Fair is easy to combo into/out of. Dair is faster.
    Power: 6
    Combo ability: 9
    Speed: 6
    Knockback: 7
    Weight: 7
    Recovery: 9
    Rating: 8/10

    Zero-Suit Samus (ZSS):
    Weak. Moves have low priority. Only has tether recovery, so she gets edgehogged easily. Her Dair stuns, but only in front, and with small range. Neutral B's range is terrrrrrible. She does have good comboing ability, and she's flashy, but overall, she's fun, but not overly useful.
    Power: 4
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 4
    Weight: 4
    Recovery: 5
    Rating: 5.5/10


    Pit: (Mained by crew member dmbrandon)
    My personal favorite. Bow game is too good. Both SideB and DB can reflect profectiles. Recovery is bananas. Can glide, and attack quickly. Moderate speed, and strength. All moves come out quick *** hell, and do okay damage. Pit is a beast in the right hands.
    Edit 1: Pit can be gimped during his UB. If he is hit during the animation, he cannot do it again, kliling him. SB won't help, and jumps will be gone. -1.0
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 9
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 7
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 10
    Rating: 8/10

    IceClimbers:
    Possible the strongest in the game. Slow, and hard to keep together/desynch properly. Without WD'ing, they're hard to get into attacks. No more chaingrabs means the loss of their major damage output. Side B's recovery has been nerfed, and it's harder to do damage with the UB. Nana and Popo can both grab the ledge now. (Thank christ.)
    Edit 1: No combos! Slow, and the approach is just AWFUL! Viable for worst, right now. -1.0
    Power: 8
    Combo ability: 5
    Speed: 4
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 3
    Recovery: UB: 7 SB: 5
    Rating: 5/10

    R.O.B.: (Mained by crew member ChimpStyle)
    ROB is slow as hell. While the slowness limits him on the ground, his UB makes him one of the best in the game. His Nair is prioritastic, and all his moves are high priority, good knock back, and good damage. He has a 19% damage projectile, that can kill... That disc is too fast. Beware the old school.
    Power: 8
    Combo ability: 7
    Speed: 4
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 8
    Recovery: 10
    Rating: 8/10

    Kirby:
    I do not play kirby, and don't want to. I encourage others to give me feedback. I'll take it into consideration, and maybe play him down the line. Sorry Kirby fans.
    Rating: ?/10

    Metaknight:
    Man, he looks cool. Keyword: looks. He's fast, and his combos are nuts, but he lacks the ability to KO. Only his Dsmash, Glide attack, and UB seem to get it done, and they're hard to land. One of the best teammates, hands down. His B moves all send him into falling state, which harms him greatly. Plays like 64 jiggz a bit, but without the rest.
    Edit 1: UB cancels into glide which cancels into glide attack which cancels into ftilt which cancels into fair which can lead to UB. See where I'm going with this? +1.0
    Edit 2: All tilts are extremely useful. The b attacks don't really hang in battle, sans the UB, his combo ability is pure bananas. Strong, and quick, metaknight has a strong future in tournament placings. +.5

    Power: 6
    Combo ability: 9
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 3
    Weight: 3
    Recovery: 7
    Rating: 8/10

    DeDeDe:
    Don't listen to other people. He's amazing. He took Marth's grab range from melee. He can chaingrab. He has a projectile that can star KO at 65%. He has 5 jumps, and a higher UB than Kirby. Did I mention that he's so powerful, he's broken? Oh I didn't? Oh, well then. He is god**** powerful. And quick. His tilts come out rapid fire. Lord knows a heavy character needs to be top tier, but will the Spacies let it happen? Only time will tell.
    Power: 9
    Combo ability: 9
    Speed: 4
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 10
    Rating: 8/10

    Olimar:
    Ever see someone do 100% in less than 7 seconds without items? I have. Or should I say seven people. Pikman and Olimar are the warlocks of this game. spamming damage over time, and strong blasts everywhere. He's hard to read, and his UB can keep his opponents at bay. Honestly, he kinda scares me.
    Power: 10
    Combo ability: 7
    Speed: 5
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 3
    Rating: 8/10


    Fox:
    I'm sick of the **** spacies taking spots on the top tiers of smash. Fox is powerful, and fast. His new blaster does more damage and it's faster. He still has his Dair Shine, even qithout L-canceling. You can still shine people off the edge, over and over. His Usmash is nerfed, but he has Falco's Fsmash from melee. (power included.) His UB got ze nerf a bit, but the sideB is longer. With time, I'm sure he'll be the best in the game. he always is. v_v
    Edit 1: God****it. Broken as hell. Nair shining works like crazy. Can combo against walls with ease. triple lasers do decent damage, and he can still gimp like he's getting paid to. +1.5
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 6
    Recovery: 7
    Rating 8.5/10


    Falco:
    Note: There are no clones. If you haven't seen a video of him, go do it. He has a new moveset. His old combos don't work, but he has a slew of new ones. He can shtill shl approach, but it's slower. You can also SHDL, but only against a jumping opponent. His shine now boomerangs out in front of him, and does decent knockback. His Bair can edgegaurd better than any other move we've seen so far.
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 6
    Rating: 8.5/10


    Wolf: (Main to crew member Space)
    Scary as hell. Fast, powerful, and has decent combo ability. He can gimp with his shine, like Fox, and plays the ground with anyone. He's right along DeDeDe in terms of how hard it is to approach him. His Blaster does 5% per shot, and it's easy to hit. His sideB spikes, and his UB is like Fox's, but it's instant. Odds are, he'll be winning tournament left and right.
    Edit 1: KO moves hard to hit on smaller characters. Easily edgehogged. -.5
    Power: 9
    Combo ability: 6
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 9
    Weight: 7
    Recovery: 7
    Rating: 9/10

    Captain Falcon:

    Without l-canceling, he's just sad. He's knee's sweet spot has a smaller hitbox, and he Dain no longer spikes. His speed was taken down to give Sonic the limelight. IMO, he's too slow to match his melee counterpart in anyway. Nothing about him got better, that I've seen, except the gentleman is easy as pie. As I've said before: Shame.
    Edit 1: Caps Uair has no lag upon landing, and ith the addition of his Usmash being KO material, and hyphen smashing, caps combo ability has become majorly apparent. +2.0
    Edit 2: Cap is awful. All in edit 1 is nonsense that only works on people who are idiots. In fact, he's close to useless. Raptor Boost has awful priority, and his recovery is easily kept away from the stage. His moves as weak, with low priority. Easily shield grabbed. As of now, viable for bottom tier. -2.5
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 7
    Speed: 9
    Knockback: 7
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 5
    Rating: 4.5/10


    Pikachu:

    Hell yeah. DB can be spammed like hell. His Dsmash is the new Peach Dsmash. Rapid A attack edgegaurds like a Royal Army, and his UB is so easy to nail, you would think the CPU was doing it for you. I am pleased to announce that Pikachu is awesome. Rejoice!
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 9
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 7
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 8
    Rating:7.5/10

    Pokemon Trainer:
    Squirtle:
    Hangs with diddy in speed and priority. Good recovery, and easy to handle. Lightweight, and low power make him a little less than what he could be.
    Power: 6
    Combo ability: 7
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 4
    Recovery: 6
    Rating: 7.5/10

    Ivysaur: Easy to handle, and powerful. Strong keep-away ability, and good ko power. Bad priority, and hard to grab with.
    Power: 6
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 5
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 7
    Recovery: 3
    Rating: 7/10

    Charizard: Strong and combos are nasty as hell. Okay priority, but slow in the air without gliding, and up is easily gimped.
    Power: 8
    Combo ability: 6
    Speed: 4
    Knockback: 9
    Weight: 8
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: 6.5/10

    (21/10! OMG!)

    Lucario:
    Mewtwo did it with a monk, and had a baby. That baby is wacky as hell, and shoots beams. His name? Yamcha. I mean Lucario. Great air game, but smashes are not as good as most others. UB is fast and useful, and his DB is a counter that does decent damage. His moves stop the inertia of the character, and makes him hard to approach. His low KO ability, and smash range weaken him, but still playable.
    Edit 1: The more damage done to Lucario, the Stronger his moves! + .5
    Edit 2: Lucario's Bair is USELESS. This harms him because a lot of his game focuses on comboing. Nair, and Fair at fantastic, and the Dair is ultimately super for pressuring. Smashes have big startup lag compaered to most, and her tilts are nothing to write a poem about. All in all, after extensive play, I see he might have a place in high end, but only in the most dedicated of hands. +1.0
    Power: 4 to start off, at over 100% damage it's 8
    Combo ability: 6
    Speed: 6
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 4
    Recovery: 6
    Rating: 7/10


    Jigglypuff:
    Rest? I don't think so. It doesn't even kill at 50% anymore. It does, however, add a lip's stick flower to do extra damage. WOP has been nerfed slightly, and he smashes gained a new startup lag. Sing's range has been increased. I'm saddened by the new puff, as she seems outmatched in high end competitive singles.
    Power: 6
    Combo ability: 6
    Speed: 6
    Knockback: 6
    Weight: 2
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: 6/10


    Marth:
    Well god****it. He's just as good, minus the grabs. Best Air Game. Period. His smashes are just as powerful, and sideB has a place in matches now, regardless though it's not helpful in recovering. No further explanation needed. Again... **** it.
    Edit 1: Marth's range is just not as good. His attacks link well, but not like his melee counter part. Neutral air cannot attack above as well. NB recvoery only good if you have a second jump. Side b recovery is terrible. -1.0
    Power: 8
    Combo ability: 9
    Speed: 8
    Knockback: 10
    Weight: 6
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: 8.5/10


    Ike: (Secondary to crew member Ninja Edd)
    Slow, but with some advanced techs, he turns into a monster. Great edge game. His counter is no joke, and his Utilt is probably the best in the game. His costumes are sweet. (Whatever.) His Side B can be used as a form of recovery, and mobility around the stage. He's Much too fast to be so strong.
    Power: 10
    Combo ability: 5
    Speed: 4 with side B dashing- 7
    Knockback: 9
    Weight: 7
    Recovery: 4
    Rating: 7.5/10


    Ness:
    Ness is amazing. His Nair is still prioritastic, although his Bair has been nerfed. (In sweetspot hitbox, and power) His bat's trajectory is almost a straight line, and the yo-yos do actual knockback now! His back throw has been cut down, but the forward throw is better than his melee Bthrow!!! PK Fire does insane damage and can combo into ANYTHING, and PK thunder is a move now! All in all, Ness has gotten waaayyyy better.
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 6
    Knockback: 7
    Weight: 4
    Recovery: 6
    Rating: 7.5/10

    Lucas: (Secondary of crew member dmbrandon)
    Lucas' Dair is nonsense. His PK FIRE comes out fast and does huge knockback. His neutral B is easy to land, and powerful. His Fsmash is fast and powerful, and his Usmash, while hard to land, may be the strongest in the game. Also, he has the best taunts. No lie.
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 6
    Knockback: 9
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 7
    Rating: 8/10


    Mr. Game & Watch:

    He lost his parachute. His main form of KO is gone. ugh. Other than that, He's the same old G&W. Same strength and awesome combo ability, but without l-canceling, it makes the box harder to use. His new Nair doesn't have a lot of knockback, but it does decent damage. The bucket spill does better damage and knockback. On a fun note: sausage/bacon debate can stop, because he's throwing chicken legs, bacon, potatoes and a whole mess of other things at you. <3
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 7
    Speed: 6
    Knockback: 7
    Weight: 4
    Recovery: 7
    Rating: 6.5/10


    Snake: (Main of crew member Space)

    Snake is just weird. As we've seen, when you get him down, you're a monster. The sheer adaptability of his character makes him the most balanced to any matchup. Strongest projectiles in the game. Bad air game, but it's strong as hell. Natural combo can ko, along with any attack in the air, or smash. Beware.
    Edit 1: Snake is terrible. BUT **** IS HE GOOD! Best camper in the game. every move can KO. Close to infinite recovery, while can be throw gimped/glitched. Right now, anyone who faces a person picking Snake at a tournament should ultimately expect to have one of the hardest matches of their life. Speed is terrible, but makes up for it with a long range and quick dash attack. Snakes throws are a prominent force in this game, combined with the most damaging projectiles... Folks, he's great.
    Power: 10
    Combo ability: 3 (with mines, 5)
    Speed: 3/4 ish
    Knockback: 9
    Weight: 7
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: Could be 3... Could be 9./10


    Sonic:

    From what we've seen, sonic is easy to play, but hard to master. You're gong to need more than three days to understand this guy. Easily shield grabbed. Has wonderful priority, and a great UB. I can't rate Sonic, because we haven't even seen his early potential. As of right now... He could be the Best in the game. Or even the Worst.
    Edit 1: In proper hands, Sonic is fierce. He can pressure hard, has good edge guarding, speed out the wazoo's wazoo. While priority is lame, and power is lacking, sonic makes up for it with his fancily strong air attacks, and strong combo-ability.
    Power: 6
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 10
    Knockback: 5
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 8
    Rating: 7.5/10


    Well, that's it folks. I hope you enjoyed the read, albeit you probably only read the characters you're interested in and let the rest to die alone in the forest. Hope to see you all online!


    Note: These are my impressions after long hours of play. I didn't play at a friend's house, I didn't play a demo for 20 minutes over three days. I've 80 hours logged by my crew and myself (Gameclock time) at 9pm Feb 4th.
  2. Yigguth

    Yigguth Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Sonoma County, CA
    Olimar 8/10? WOOT!
  3. Dry Bones

    Dry Bones Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    527
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    so much for the hopeful yoshi improvement. thanks for the info man, im glad to see you obviously cut out favourtism to a great extent to give us more credible feedback
  4. dmbrandon

    dmbrandon Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,257
    Location:
    The Sun.
    Sarcasm? internet..
  5. Dry Bones

    Dry Bones Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    527
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    nah not sarcasm =) shame the internet makes it so hard to give compliments
  6. turbo_ja

    turbo_ja Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    160
    wow your yoshi and mario ratings are CRAZY wtf...

    mario has several KO moves, hard to connect? tell me characters at this rate that can "connect", all his smashes are lethal, not to mention his lagless aerials excluding forward A when reaching the ground. please dont' tell me you gave him +1 instead of 0 for having stronger fireballs..wow.
  7. dmbrandon

    dmbrandon Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,257
    Location:
    The Sun.
    I'm guessing you have the game? If so, you play me online, and I'll play pit. You tell me if you can connect.

    Edit: @Drybones. Thanks man. I worked hard on it.
  8. Maben

    Maben Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Severna Park, Maryland
    dmbrandon how does's Wolf's "shine" work exactly? I saw a video and on the ground it seemed to have very little damage and very little knockback...every time the player used it he was just punished for it. Does it have the same reflective properties as fox's?
  9. dmbrandon

    dmbrandon Smash Master

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,257
    Location:
    The Sun.
    It's not as useful as fox's, but it has it's place. The knockback isn't as good, but the damage is the same, roughly. Whoever got punished just failed at the shine, I've been killed by it a few times.
  10. FiveLeafClover

    FiveLeafClover Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
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    =< I was hoping I could actually main (or at least secondary main) Yoshi now, but if he can't DJC (or at least attack before his double jump finishes) then he can't really do anything in the air beyond his first jump which = gimped character.

    At least my other 'claimed' mains (Falco, Wolf, Luigi and possibly ROB) are good =)
  11. SuperLink9

    SuperLink9 Smash Lord

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    Argh... the balancing in this game seems to have not worked maybe as planned...

    I can't believe Yoshi... why? D: And Pikachu has been made great again?

    Well, just one guy's opinion I guess. Don't get me wrong, this is taken on board, but I think it'll make more sense for other players after compared with other views.
  12. Zodiac

    Zodiac Smash Master

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    Yay for Link and toon link. Im going to make link a powerhouse and toonlink a speedster. As for ganondorf. *sigh* without l-cancling should I even bother using him?
  13. PsychoIncarnate

    PsychoIncarnate The Eternal Will of the Swarm

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    Who's a good fast character that isn't one of the Fox Triples or Marth?

    I need a fast main if Dedede and R.O.B. are slow...
  14. Maben

    Maben Smash Journeyman

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    From what I've seen, most of these ratings seem decent for first impressions after a few days. I would like to say this though:

    Any character (save for Mario...I thought he was pretty decent) that has a less than 5 rating will probably end up not being very good, and dmbrandon seems to give some pretty good reasoning behind each. Any character with a 5 or greater rating I think has potential, whether it be potential in discovering new techniques and eventually getting a higher rating, or simply being the potential to win tournaments in the hands of a dedicated and skilled pro.
  15. drengist

    drengist Smash Journeyman

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    This is interesting. I'm surprised at Diddy.
  16. SuperLink9

    SuperLink9 Smash Lord

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    I've said it once, I'll say it again...

    Has Sakurai even done his research? I think he might even be oblivious of the tier list...

    The problem is, high level Melee games were played with advanced techniques, many of which weren't intended to be in the game. Sakurai might have thought Ganondorf was "too powerful" (Yes, I am implying Sakurai might have been a bad player...)

    Who knows.
  17. FiveLeafClover

    FiveLeafClover Smash Cadet

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    The lack of a DJC = MASSIVE, MASSIVE nerf for Yoshi seeing as how it made up almost all of his aerial ability. He might be playable if you can attack at like halfway through the jump or at least interrupt the jump before it's finished to attack (maybe you can djc like you cancel D³'s up-B), but since both his aerial game AND his projectile (which was pretty nice) have been nerfed he's pretty much a gimped character now...
  18. SuperLink9

    SuperLink9 Smash Lord

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    It's pathetic ¬_¬;
  19. shortwanabelaker

    shortwanabelaker Smash Journeyman

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    snake and sonic = 3rd party tier = awesomeness to 3rd power
  20. SmashBro99

    SmashBro99 Banned (6 Points)

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    Well, you gave Diddy, Wolf and Olimar (my 3 guys that are already planned to be mains) good reviews as well as Luigi, who was my main in Melee, so this makes me happy.

    It's too bad about Ganondorf, they had a chance to fix him up and it looks like they made him worse =\
  21. Maben

    Maben Smash Journeyman

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    My friend who mains Yoshi (at least he is his favorite character, he plays Marth when he actually wants to try to win) is going to be upset to hear the news on his new moves. No DJC does indeed effectively kill Yoshi's chance at being competitive. You can basically stand on a platform out of reach from him and then punish any attempt to attack you. Perhaps we'll all be proven wrong but it doesn't look good.
  22. PsychoIncarnate

    PsychoIncarnate The Eternal Will of the Swarm

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    Yeah, Diddy just might be my fast main...
  23. deathborn00

    deathborn00 Smash Apprentice

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    i have a question about ROB

    is his laser stronger the longer you go without using it?
  24. Lovage 805

    Lovage 805 Smash Champion

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    Pissed that Marth and Wolf are actually as good as you guys made them look in the videos. At least Olimar is looking good. Love the impressions, keep writing! Update this page daily!
  25. TheKoopaBros.

    TheKoopaBros. Smash Journeyman

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    Thanks for the indepth rating on each character.

    It looks like most of the characters I'm planning on using are pretty good still (G&W, Dedede, Pit, Toon Link, etc.). No one that I regularly use seems to be nerfed, which is nice. :)

    I'm going to hate Pikachu now. My brother mains him and is annoying enough in Melee, at least his sheik is nerfed a bit. :p
  26. RedrappeR

    RedrappeR Smash Journeyman

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    It's a great read, but one thing I want to address to people.

    You can't take this list as the Ten Commandments. There are a lot of parts I agree with on it, but I'm still going to wait it out. So don't get all angry if your character didn't get like 17/10, because it's early, and like he said, it's just opinions.(Only reason I say this is because I know there's going to be some ******* who comes along and doesn't even read the first post's disclaimer, and starts yelling at the OP about how their idiots.)

    But excellent stuff so far guys. Hope to read more. Even if there's a large chance I won't agree with you on the Lucario and Mario fronts. =P
  27. SuperLink9

    SuperLink9 Smash Lord

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    I'm confident Kirby has been buffed, which like Pikachu and Zelda will be great news.

    Recently me and a friend changed our Melee characters. We're not sure if it'll stay like that, but I changed to Samus (over Young Link) and he changed to Zelda (over Link). He's really really good with Zelda. :p

    I mean, we're not the best players in the world by any means, but I maintain that trying hard enough with one character could win you a hell of a lot... especially if you're used to them and know them like the back of your hand.
  28. Waka_Waka_do_do_yea

    Waka_Waka_do_do_yea Smash Journeyman

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    5/10 for Falcon...? might as well go and knee you personally.
  29. Wolf Pup TK

    Wolf Pup TK Smash Ace

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    Thanks for the analysis and ratings! In your opinion, would you say that characters feel more or less balanced this time around? Or at least that it looks like we'll have a larger set of "good" characters than in melee? It would be a huge shame if the way things played out we only got 7-8 characters that were on equal footing for tourneys.

    Also, I was told that Lucario does more damage and smash when damaged... is this true?
  30. dmbrandon

    dmbrandon Smash Master

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    I'd be afraid if the knee was something to be feared these days. hahahahahah [/jokes]

    Edit @wolfpup: I checked that lucario thing, and it proves true! That's important stuff, and will improve her rating! Thanks!
  31. Kapusta.KO

    Kapusta.KO Smash Cadet

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    Sweet my two boys (or should I say one boy and one girl...)
    got pretty good reviews so far.
    Sheik : 8/10
    Wolf: 9.5/10

    then again, its just some review by some guy...
    But it does mean SOMETHING
  32. Eternal phoenix Fire

    Eternal phoenix Fire Smash Hero

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    Lol, I really don't agree on the Mario section.

    Last time I played with him he was a beast. His aerials (Bair, Dair, and Nair mostly) had very little lag and can connect quickly. He was a significant improvement over his Melee counter part. Pit is an amazing character though.

    Hey, I'll challange you to a online match. My Mario vs. Your Pit. =)
  33. lex.aut

    lex.aut Smash Apprentice

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    refering to yoshi... "still no recovery move"

    of course he has one. his up+b gives him a decent boost upwards when used in the air - it's also very nice against edgeguarding.
    there are only 2 things that still bug me: he still can't jump out of his shield and his neutral b range was reduced (but you can see some spit now Tt)

    oh, and yes, i've played the game for the past 2 days at a friend of mine, so i know what i'm talking about (just to prevent posts like "lol, you fail, how do you want to know all that?!").
  34. Blue sHell

    Blue sHell Smash Journeyman

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    Okay, dmbrandon, a few things:

    Peach: You have to realize that even though a couple of her ground game moves have been gimped, i.e. downsmash, she's still beastly due to float canceling and the fact that she has all her old combos from melee. No joke, float canceled Nair directly from the ground to Fsmash works on some characters. And that's killing potential ALOT now. Not to mention she could still do bair and nair AND dair to downsmash still, yes, it doesn't have the killing potential it use to, but it still attacks shields enough that you can't shieldgrab her easily afterwards. Not to mention that her dash attack is just funny good now, lol. Her ground game is sickening this time around, even though some of her ground moves aren't what they use to be.

    Bowser: Bowser's Fair ends before he hits the ground if done right. Just switching up Fair and FowardB is a great offense. That along with the fact that he could suicide at any given moment to his favor with his opponent is crazy. High tier? Not likely. But anywhere lower than a possible Mid Tier? Not likely either.

    Ganondorf: Ganondorf's Uair ends before he hits the ground and has the least lag out of all his aerials if he does hit the ground so THAT is his offensive air rush now, sometimes Bair, but Uair being the safest. Not to mention that his FowardB is rape now, and a tech chase machine.

    Falcon: Uair has like no lag on it if SHFFL'd. I don't play Falcon, even in Melee, so I can't really give an accurate discription on his changes but I just wanted to point out that he could still Uair rush.
  35. Gaddswell

    Gaddswell Smash Cadet

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    From what I have heard, Yoshi's moves got a range buff all around. Also, according to this topic (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=133371&page=3), Yoshi looks like he gains some distance with his up B and that it can be used repeatedly in the air. It's a shame that he lost DJC though, but I'm hoping some good might actually come from that.
  36. dmbrandon

    dmbrandon Smash Master

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    @Eternal: I listed mario lower, because everything he does, Luigi does, and BETTER. Mario has Bair, and that's it. But like I said, these are my impressions. and we should play! I love this game! :D

    @lex: It's not a decent boost. It's an awful boost. Without that airdodge DI, he can't play off the stage, this makes his edgegaurding weak, and you need an edge game.
  37. dmbrandon

    dmbrandon Smash Master

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    @ Blueshell: I will test out the peach and Falcon things. The bowser game is stlil too weak. I'll need to see someone play him better for me to make a better assumption Ganon's >B isn't good enough to tech chase a good opponent. If you miss his Bair or Uair, you're done for.
  38. Staco

    Staco Smash Champion

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    I think this list is ****
    could it be that you are very nooby :p

    oh, and metaknights attacks are more stronger than diddys!!!
    how can you think that he has got strong attacks? <<
  39. Maben

    Maben Smash Journeyman

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    troll much?

    Ganon's >B does look very good, but it's unfortunate that his Utilt is still the same slow PoS that it always was. He could be decent but he does look horrendously slow.
  40. dmbrandon

    dmbrandon Smash Master

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    Is this a joke post? MORE STRONGER?! LANDMASSSSTEEEERRRRR.

    Here's Diddy: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8FOCRkDEH9o
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