1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 150,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 15 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  3. Trying to find the perfect gift? Use the Smashboards Store to get awesome Smash accessories, like a Nintendo Controller! Please check out the inventory in our store and support Smashboards with your purchase today!

New Ledgegrabbing Mechanic Confirmed

Discussion in 'Super Smash Bros. for Wii U General Discussion' started by ThatLucas, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. ThatLucas

    ThatLucas Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYngiZ2EwA

    [​IMG]

    "Pic of the day. There are many changes being made to attack and defense options for grabbing edges. In this picture, Link is actually trumping Mario's grab."

    "Some other changes include: -Air time and accumulated damage will determine your period of invincibility while hanging on an edge. -Grab controls will no longer be affected by whether you have above or below 100% damage."

    Thoughts?
    Niko Mar likes this.
  2. Swampasaur

    Swampasaur President Ivysaur and Vice President Charizard!

    • Moderator
    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    12,245
    Location:
    Um....Lost?
    3DS FC:
    4141-2776-0914
    NNID:
    Swampasaur

    This could be a great change.

    Or it could be terrible.

    I'm thinking it's good though.

    Regardless, this is a HUGE change to the metagame.
  3. XenoUltra

    XenoUltra Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Behind Wall Maria
    I think now in Smash 4 it will be much harder to edge hog. It will be more technical and require timing. :chuckle:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
    Yodude57 likes this.
  4. Meelow

    Meelow Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    330
    NNID:
    Meelow
    It means no more Edge hogging :O
  5. Deap

    Deap Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    992
    Location:
    Vancouver,BC
    NNID:
    Deap92x
    As long as it is not something stupid i am fine with it.
    Renji64 likes this.
  6. FlynnCL

    FlynnCL Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I'm guessing the longer you're in the air, the longer your invincibility. Dropping from the stage to the edge will not net you much invincibility at all. This is a pretty big help to those with tether recoveries or those who get edge-hogged a lot (Link/Olimar comes to mind), and I wonder if you'll still have the option to "win" the ledge if you're left in helpless.

    This also possibly means that the issues of planking / ledge stalling are being addressed.
  7. Jack Kieser

    Jack Kieser Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    2,957
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I don't think this means NO more edgehogging, but I *do* think it means more refined edgeplay. Think of it this way:

    In Melee, edgehogging was trivial. You were considered "on the edge" for so long, even after rolling or jumping up, that really the timing to edgehog wasn't that strict; it was less strict than a wavedash or L-cancel, that's for sure. So, really, once you got down reverse wavedashing off the edge of a stage, you knew how to edgehog; all you needed to do then was make sure a recovery straight to the stage wasn't an option (or was the only option, which you would then punish).

    In Brawl, we had the opposite problem: edgehogging was, on the whole, very difficult. With the variable concerning ledge occupancy being updated more quickly, it was much harder to hog without being punished for it. Yes, invincibility was longer, but many recoveries could also stall out on the ledge and beat out that invincibility, especially if the hog wasn't timed just right. In addition, there was little counterplay on the ledge, especially in the case of tethers; that's why they're all so low tier, because it was impossible for a tether to recover once someone was already on the ledge. Add in the fact that it was easier to recover to the stage and harder to punish it from the edge, and you have a much less complex edge game. In Brawl, people spent a lot of time on the edge, but it was mainly to stall or camp.

    This, however, changes all of that. The variable invincibility timer allows ledge play to be carefully balanced around recovery, and not low-percent gimps. In addition, the occupancy variable is no longer an issue like it was in previous games: now, the operative variable in recovery attempts is the ledge occupant's invincibility timer, which is MUCH more intuitive and makes much more sense. Edgehogs have to be carefully timed, but also, there's no one-size-fits-all approach to hogging anymore, since your own percentage will determine the timing you have to use to hog: do it too early, and the ledge is taken from you. This also fixes ALL the problems with tethers: if anything, it's a MASSIVE buff, since it may no longer be viable to reliably hog them at all. There's real counterplay on the ledge now.

    I absolutely can't wait to see how this all plays out.
  8. NintendoKnight

    NintendoKnight Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    969
    Location:
    Vader's Death Star
    NNID:
    Nin-Knight
    I'm giving this mechanic a name:

    Ledge Priority.

    Gonna change the way we play!
  9. Renji64

    Renji64 Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,988
    Location:
    Jacksonville FL
    I'm not sure if i should be happy or not. I play P:M and Melee and n64 so idk what this means i never had issues with edgehogging.
  10. The Real Gamer

    The Real Gamer Zarderator

    • Moderator
    • Premium
    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    8,960
    Location:
    Atlanta, Georgia
    3DS FC:
    3437-3797-6559
    Grade A post.

    Tl;dr version: Melee's ledge play made it too easy to get early % gimps, while Brawl's ledge play made it far too difficult. This new system makes the ledge game much more balanced and adds a complex layer of depth to it. PLUS this could mean no more planking which is a good thing for everyone.

    Such a great update... Keep it up Sakurai.
  11. Deku_Don

    Deku_Don Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    Location:
    Bournemouth
    Could someone explain this change to a plebian like myself who's only just getting into competitive melee/brawl.

    Don't worry, didn't notice this, makes sense now.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2014
  12. Hong

    Hong Your Sworn Protector

    • Moderator
    • Premium
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Messages:
    7,743
    Location:
    Manitoba, Canada
    3DS FC:
    0516-7273-0947
    NNID:
    Esmoire
    I was hoping for a fatigue system, where every time you grab the ledge and the more time you spend on it, the more fatigue you build, and eventually you just can't grab it anymore.

    I don't know if what Sakurai-san had chosen is the right thing, or if my idea would have worked, but what I can say is that something should be done. I won't deny I have exploited the ledge quite a bit in my years. While it has been effective, it feels kind of lame.

    Someone else using my avatar is creeping me out.

    It is implied that the longer you spend recovering, the longer your invincibility is when you grab the ledge. Damage influences this as well, but I can't say how. Will higher percentages grant more or less invincibility? There are pros and cons for each.

    Later on, he goes to talk about the removal of >100% ledge mechanics. Basically, traditionally when you are above 100% damage, your options for climbing from the ledge, attacking from the ledge and rolling onto the stage change. In most cases, it becomes longer. In Sakurai-san's post, he implies this is no longer the case, and your get up/roll/attack from the edge remains the same.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2014
    Takehiko likes this.
  13. Terrazi Terrajin

    Terrazi Terrajin Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    762
    Finally, some news on game mechanics.
    If air grabs make it in I will be over the moon.
  14. Silvalfo

    Silvalfo Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Brazil
    I was having mixed feelings towards this mechanic, now I'm pretty optimistic about it being a change for the better. Apparently it will let the game focus more on offstage KOs, which always look cool.
    The only bad thing I can see now is an indirect buff to Olimar.
    Takehiko likes this.
  15. rawrimamonster

    rawrimamonster Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    dearborn heights MI
    This makes me think it's inspired by m2k's shiek...Mayhaps we should watch how we're influencing Sakurai-san's decisions.
  16. DakotaBonez

    DakotaBonez The Mod with the Bod

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,306
    Location:
    San Marcos, Texas
    So, now your edge attack won't be changed if you have 100%+ damage.
    Maybe there will be another button to do the alternate ledge attack?
    Like, a ledge Special attack.
  17. Mario_and_Sonic_Guy

    Mario_and_Sonic_Guy Cosmic Beauty

    • Moderator
    • Premium
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    12,264
    Location:
    Mushroom Kingdom
    3DS FC:
    5327-1637-5096
    NNID:
    TPitch5
    This does make you wonder if it'll impact anyone who has multiple mid-air jumps, such as Kirby and Meta Knight. For all we know, Kirby and Meta Knight could still be able to edge-hog like crazy.
    DJVictor likes this.
  18. StarshipGroove

    StarshipGroove Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2007
    Messages:
    408
    The whole point of this new mechanic is that even if you time your invincibility correctly during a ledge hog, the character recovering will OVERRIDE YOUR LEDGE GRAB, even if you are invulnerable.

    Edgehogging no longer exists.
  19. pitthekit

    pitthekit Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    588
    Location:
    in a crate
  20. smashbroskilla

    smashbroskilla Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    613
    Location:
    Lake Worth, Florida
    3DS FC:
    5086-2745-2582
    I think edge hogging will still be there but will be harder to time. Being able to be hit after grabbing a ledge is nothing new though. The amount of time may have new variables we don't know about yet. This change will change the meta game for sure though in a positive way I think. How many tournament games have you seen C. Falcon/Ganondorf/yoshi(not going to name every character) get knocked off the ledge at 45% and die from edge hogging spam? Is it a strategy? Sure it is, but lets be honest- there isn't anything super hard about hitting down up when already on the ledge or wave dashing backwards to grab a ledge. It sure as hell makes for some boring tournament matches I've watched. Then again I could be completely wrong and not know what I'm talking about as I'm guessing how the final product will be played :/
    Priap0s likes this.
  21. OcarinaOfDoom

    OcarinaOfDoom Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,102
    NNID:
    OcarinaOfDoom
    RIP CT EMP Ledge.
  22. PikaJew

    PikaJew Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    718
    Location:
    at temple
    FINALLY!

    Now people will actually have to put in effort to K.O. an opponent on the ledge.
  23. Snakeyes

    Snakeyes Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    396
    Eh, it sounds neat but I'm not ready to call it a positive change just yet compared to how it worked in 64 or Melee.
    Renji64, SKM_NeoN, MLGF and 1 other person like this.
  24. ScubaF_ingSteve

    ScubaF_ingSteve I eat stickers all the time, dude!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    912
    Location:
    Storrs, University of Connecticut, CT
    NNID:
    ScubaSteve94
    From what it reads like I think it means that edgehogging will require better timing. So, if I'm understanding the concept right, it works like this:

    Say you're fox and you go straight up and begin freefalling, if someone is trying to ledgehog they can't just get there before you firefox and sit there for a few seconds past the invincibility they gain. So you can only ledgehog when you have invincibility, meaning you have to time your ledgehogs better. In addition to that, your ledge invincibility is determined by your percent, so it will be longer or shorter if you are more damaged. I guess this is a response to in brawl people planking and camping the ledge, giving people less camping options on the ledge.

    If I'm interpreting this correctly, I think it's honestly a good thing for smash. Less ledge camping and more strict ledgehogging timings so when you recover, you have more timing mixups and you're not completely ****ed if you have a subpar recovery.
    pitthekit, Hong and MorbidAltruism like this.
  25. PikaJew

    PikaJew Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    718
    Location:
    at temple
    This is great.

    Adds a whole new technique to the game and helps to reduce the most un honourable way of getting a K.O. in the game.
  26. 1MachGO

    1MachGO Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    476
    Not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, ledge stalling will be less viable, but on the other hand, edge hogging may become extremely difficult to execute. The impression I am getting from the picture is that Link out prioritized Mario's occupancy on the ledge without hitting him. In prior smash games, the only way to get an opponent character off the ledge was by hitting them off it, but this may no longer be the case.

    While this obviously buffs those with less-than stellar recoveries (which is good) it also becomes more forgiving to players who are trying to recover. Hopefully edge snaps are less lenient.
  27. Tuen

    Tuen Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    941
    3DS FC:
    0559-7294-8323
    I can see it now... someone recovers, you want to counter their invincibility with yours, so you need air time. So while they are recovering (ideally, you'd have a lot of jumps, or something that stalls you in the air) you *jump*.... *jump*.... *jump* .... *juuuuump*.... and clip to the edge just before they do in an effort to have a comparable air time. I call it stall hogging. Ha ha ha.

    Even if that were viable, it'd only work once, and it's not even likely to work because the opponent has momentum from whatever hit you did plus all their jumps (or not, if they didn't have many left).

    Either way, I'm pretty hyped for the new ledge mechanic!
  28. J1NG

    J1NG Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    263
    This change is cool and everything, but why do I get the feeling that if a fan had suggested this ledge mechanic idea first that everyone would have rejected it?
    Yodude57 likes this.
  29. Niko Mar

    Niko Mar Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    Missouri
    3DS FC:
    4296-3389-6772
    NNID:
    Nikonomar
    This change sounds great. I'm always happy to hear of some new and cool mechanics.
  30. josh bones

    josh bones Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,026
    Location:
    A city
    :olimar::toonlink::zerosuitsamus:
  31. Smur

    Smur Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2013
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Statesboro, GA
    3DS FC:
    4141-3292-3562
    The more Project M I play and the more I hear about the new SSB4..the more anti-hype I get. Idk if I like this new mechanic :s
    Renji64 likes this.
  32. Captain Hotcakes

    Captain Hotcakes Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    Andover, MA, USA
    3DS FC:
    5155-3393-9867
    NNID:
    Sarki241
    New gameplay mechanics and tweaks are welcome with reason. I'm very interested to see how they play out!
  33. Mike_Tha_Hero

    Mike_Tha_Hero Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    This is a welcomed change.

    Face it, most of what makes Smash "competitive" are cheap exploits. Why would you be in favor of edge hogging? It makes absolutely no sense.
    Yodude57 likes this.
  34. Souless_shadow

    Souless_shadow Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    639
    Location:
    Inside the Tv
    3DS FC:
    3609-1166-4956
    NNID:
    Souless_Shadow
    This sound very interesting and it'll make me have to change my playstyle.I'm usually and edgehog and I'm not proud of it.
    Yodude57 likes this.
  35. DaDavid

    DaDavid Just Another Sword User

    • Premium
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    2,080
    Location:
    Battlefield
    3DS FC:
    4699-6325-1681
    NNID:
    DaDavidEffect
    Got on Smash Boards just to see the discussion on this and get some other inputs. Seems like my initial feeling that this was a good change is mostly agreed upon here. I understand that edge-hogging requires a degree of skill (I honestly don't pull it off with total success all the time, though that's partly due to lack of interest in getting better at it) but I still feel that promoting the chasing-through-the-air aspect of edge-guarding can only result in more interesting matching.

    Can't wait to see how this all plays out. Hopefully Sakurai posts mechanic changes like this more often.
    Yodude57 and Hong like this.
  36. Black Mantis

    Black Mantis Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    5,673
    Location:
    Writing my own road...................
    RIP ledge grab rule?
  37. KumaOso

    KumaOso Smash Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    15,209
    Location:
    Lousiana
    3DS FC:
    1590-4853-0104
    NNID:
    KumaOso
    We don't need to have a name for everything. It just makes everything more confusing.

    I wouldn't call this a new mechanic unless you're desperate for more things to name. It's simply revamping the edge guarding game.
  38. fenyx4

    fenyx4 Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    187
    I can't wait to see how this change plays out; edge-hogging being discouraged/harder to perform properly? Yes, please! And it seems that Tether Recoveries will become a bit more useful!

    Hmm...I kind of liked the "grab control changes" when a fighter was over 100% damage, but we'll see how this plays out....

    A fatigue system regarding ledgegrabbing would've be quite interesting...
    KoRLumen likes this.
  39. SKM_NeoN

    SKM_NeoN Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    'Murica!
    This... Could suck. Big time. If edgeguarding is half as difficult as it was in Brawl the ramifications could be disastrous for the competitive community. I'm sure inexperienced/casual players will love this though.

    On the other hand this all depends on how the rest of the recovery game changes. In the meantime, I'm pretty skeptical.
  40. Lazurwolf

    Lazurwolf Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    115
    But it's the perfect name to describe what happened on that screenshot.
    Yodude57 and fenyx4 like this.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

We know you don't like ads
Why not buy Premium?