New Grab-Cancel Slide Technique? [With Video]

[Jigglystep]

I'm not sure if this has been discovered or not, (wasn't able to find any documentation of it) but this is a little momentum technique I found while messing around in the Wii U version.

It seems to be if you do an input directly after a dash grab, it will cancel the grab and instead send you sliding about 1/4 of FD while performing said input. (ex: dash, press Z, then quickly flick the C-stick up to do a sliding Up-Smash) However, the window for doing so seems to be very small, as I have trouble pulling this off consistently. It's probably easiest and most practical to do with an Up-Smash.

It's sort've like a DACUS, but to differentiate it from that, it appears to work with multiple actions. I've slid across the stage while spot dodging and it looked hilarious.

 

[Player-1]

I did something like cancelling my grab and it only happened on lylat so I assumed it had to do with the slopes but never ha any luck trying to recreate so that might have been this, I'll try to mess around with this since this would be really useful if it's true

 

[Player-1]

You should definitely try to get a video up

 

[Jigglystep]

Alright, here's a demonstration.

 

[AnchorTea]

Awesome. Lets see if ZSS can handle this...

 

[Player-1]

I can't do this X_X

 

[MrJOENeil]

i cant figure out how to do this either

 

[Jigglystep]

Hm.. I'm able to pull it off fairly consistently now.

To clarify, it has to be a running grab. (apologies if the video didn't make that clear) If you're not using the C-stick on the Wii U version, I highly recommend doing so, because this seemed impossible to perform on a 3DS when I tried.

Run, grab, then INSTANTLY flick the C-stick upwards.. it's almost as if you're doing both at once. Hope this helps.

 

[Player-1]

my inputs are constrol stick forward> z (grab)> c stick up (smash) I've tried on 1x, 2/3, .5, and .25 speed and couldn't get it once on any of them :/

 

[MrJOENeil]

my inputs are constrol stick forward> z (grab)> c stick up (smash) I've tried on 1x, 2/3, .5, and .25 speed and couldn't get it once on any of them :/

Same here, idk why i cant get it

 

[Envoy_]

Is there any way that you could slow down the video and try to show us where the cancel window would occur? Might help but who knows. I too am unable to do it ; [.

 

[skillskillfiretruck]

A friend said she was able to do it a few times, ( I didn't see or anything though) but it was really strict timing and she couldn't do it consistently.

I tried a lot to do it, and couldn't.
I feel like I am cancelling the grab sometimes and doing the up smash, but I'm not getting the super slide.

Would love some frame data on this technique and a nicer video.
Cheers for sharing though Jigglystep!

 

[Locke 06]

Does this work with other characters? I'd imagine it would be most notable with Captain Falcon or Greninja.

 

[kewl]

Alright so I was able to do this like 3-4 times out of the 1000 times I tried.

The window to do it is so small.

 

[Locke 06]

Alright so I was able to do this like 3-4 times out of the 1000 times I tried.

The window to do it is so small.

Even on 1/4 speed? (15 fps)

 

[Soshii]

If this is mastered, it could be a pseudo-DACUS. I could see this being really useful for characters with huge dash grabs.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

So from the looks of it this and DACUS are mechanically identical. The only difference is that for some reason Sakurai decided to remove the ability to jump-cancel dash attacks in v1.0.4., but not grabs

I'll give this a shot when I have access to the wii u version

Also regarding being able to do it with other inputs, you'll probably only be able to do shield-related inputs. So right now I'm thinking the things you can cancel the running grab with are spotdodge, roll, another grab (grab > roll > grab) (should be called grab cancelled roll cancelled grab imo), USmash, and jump

And this brings another point to mind. How are you grabbing? With Z? Or is it shield+A? Anyway the reason this works is probably because even grab buttons work like the C-Stick, in that they execute their action through a combination of others. E.g. the C-Stick performs smashes by creating simultaneous tap+A inputs (this is known), so the grab button probably performs grabs by creating simultaneous shield+A inputs (idk if this is known). This seems likely because if it were a "raw" grab input, you wouldn't be able to do this. Since a shield input is involved, you are afforded a window of time where you can do all the stuff you can normally do out of a shield; this includes USmash. That's also why I think the list I gave of possible actions should be accurate, aside from the grab, because I'm not sure if roll-cancelled grabs are still in v1.0.4.?

Also also this bring ANOTHER point to mind. Previously I thought that the distance a DACUS traveled was dependent on the character's traction and the velocity of their dash attack at the time of cancelling (This is why Falco's BDACUS in Brawl goes so damn far, since his DA has high velocity at the start, but it decays very quickly. Buffering it cancels the DA at the moment at which it has the greatest velocity). However it seems that this GCUS travels about the same distance (maybe just a tiny bit less) than Villager's DACUS in v1.0.3. To my knowledge dash grabs don't momentarily increase your velocity, or do they?

 

[Ryota]

After playing around trying to do this for a little while, I managed to figure this thing out.

It happens when you input an Up Smash during one of the first few frames of Villager's transition from dash to run. If you set the game to 1/4 speed in training mode, you can notice the visual cue for said transition since Villager's dash animation doesn't transition smoothly into his run animation (whole body gets slightly shifted, head tilts a bit, etc.). That's when you need to Up Smash.

So, in other words, this just requires strict timing, and has absolutely nothing to do with grab cancelling stuff. You don't need to be fast, just tap and hold forward and do an Up Smash at the right time. As for how strict it is, it feels like it's one specific frame or two at max, but it's not really that hard to do.

Didn't test it intensively, but while others characters seemed to also be able to do this, the results were nowhere near as strong as Villager's.

 

[Darklink401]

After playing around trying to do this for a little while, I managed to figure this thing out.

It happens when you input an Up Smash during one of the first few frames of Villager's transition from dash to run. If you set the game to 1/4 speed in training mode, you can notice the visual cue for said transition since Villager's dash animation doesn't transition smoothly into his run animation (whole body gets slightly shifted, head tilts a bit, etc.). That's when you need to Up Smash.

So, in other words, this just requires strict timing, and has absolutely nothing to do with grab cancelling stuff. You don't need to be fast, just tap and hold forward and do an Up Smash at the right time. As for how strict it is, it feels like it's one specific frame or two at max, but it's not really that hard to do.

Didn't test it intensively, but while others characters seemed to also be able to do this, the results were nowhere near as strong as Villager's.

This seems like something else. Much easier to do, tho it IS kinda like a mini DACUS.

I guess.


The video one is longer though, unless he does a dash right after another dash.

 

[Jigglystep]

I appreciate the feedback, everyone!

So from the looks of it this and DACUS are mechanically identical. The only difference is that for some reason Sakurai decided to remove the ability to jump-cancel dash attacks in v1.0.4., but not grabs

I'll give this a shot when I have access to the wii u version

Also regarding being able to do it with other inputs, you'll probably only be able to do shield-related inputs. So right now I'm thinking the things you can cancel the running grab with are spotdodge, roll, another grab (grab > roll > grab) (should be called grab cancelled roll cancelled grab imo), USmash, and jump

And this brings another point to mind. How are you grabbing? With Z? Or is it shield+A? Anyway the reason this works is probably because even grab buttons work like the C-Stick, in that they execute their action through a combination of others. E.g. the C-Stick performs smashes by creating simultaneous tap+A inputs (this is known), so the grab button probably performs grabs by creating simultaneous shield+A inputs (idk if this is known). This seems likely because if it were a "raw" grab input, you wouldn't be able to do this. Since a shield input is involved, you are afforded a window of time where you can do all the stuff you can normally do out of a shield; this includes USmash. That's also why I think the list I gave of possible actions should be accurate, aside from the grab, because I'm not sure if roll-cancelled grabs are still in v1.0.4.?

Also also this bring ANOTHER point to mind. Previously I thought that the distance a DACUS traveled was dependent on the character's traction and the velocity of their dash attack at the time of cancelling (This is why Falco's BDACUS in Brawl goes so damn far, since his DA has high velocity at the start, but it decays very quickly. Buffering it cancels the DA at the moment at which it has the greatest velocity). However it seems that this GCUS travels about the same distance (maybe just a tiny bit less) than Villager's DACUS in v1.0.3. To my knowledge dash grabs don't momentarily increase your velocity, or do they?

I was indeed using Z. I had initially theorized that grabbing was related to triggering this because of the little momentum boost Villager appears to get when dash grabbing (he visually hops forward a bit, but I'm not positive on the increase in velocity) in combination with what you were mentioning about the shield input from Z. It would definitely explain why I'm only able to do out-of-shield actions; like you said, it's really similar to how DACUS works. Great analysis!

After playing around trying to do this for a little while, I managed to figure this thing out.

It happens when you input an Up Smash during one of the first few frames of Villager's transition from dash to run. If you set the game to 1/4 speed in training mode, you can notice the visual cue for said transition since Villager's dash animation doesn't transition smoothly into his run animation (whole body gets slightly shifted, head tilts a bit, etc.). That's when you need to Up Smash.

So, in other words, this just requires strict timing, and has absolutely nothing to do with grab cancelling stuff. You don't need to be fast, just tap and hold forward and do an Up Smash at the right time. As for how strict it is, it feels like it's one specific frame or two at max, but it's not really that hard to do.

Didn't test it intensively, but while others characters seemed to also be able to do this, the results were nowhere near as strong as Villager's.

Hm, I'm not sure about this, what you're describing might be something different. I have done somewhat of a slide by accident without grabbing, but the distance wasn't nearly as far. Plus, I was able to do the presumably grab-canceled Up-Smash on two different frames of the dash/run; at 0:25 I inputted the grab and Up-Smash as soon as I started the dash, while at 0:30, it occurred fairly later in the run.

Regardless, this is good to know.

 

[cot(θ)]

That's cool - now can we do roll-cancelled-grab-cancelled techniques?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

An important thing I forgot to ask: when you made the video, did you have tap jump on, or off?

 

[Jigglystep]

An important thing I forgot to ask: when you made the video, did you have tap jump on, or off?

On, why?

 

[Player-1]

because for Indigo jean's theory to work if there is some jump input in there. You can't directly usmash OoS, you jump OoS then you usmash out of the jump squat frames. That would also explain why I could never get it since I play with tap jump off.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Exactly what P1 said. I also play without tap jump and it wasn't working for me either

 

[Darklink401]

So we gotta have tap jump on to perform this?

 

[Jigglystep]

Huh. I had no idea tap jump would affect it. I suppose something positive came out of my bad habit for once.. So, if this were to be the case, would this tech be viable at all?

 

[Player-1]

you don't need tap jump on to perform it, this is just assuming Indigo's theory is right which it isn't confirmed yet, but you'd just have to press jump after you press shield or grab or whatever it is.

 

[Darklink401]

So you...cancel the grab with a jump?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

So we gotta have tap jump on to perform this?

not necessarily

Huh. I had no idea tap jump would affect it. I suppose something positive came out of my bad habit for once.. So, if this were to be the case, would this tech be viable at all?

not necessarily. It just means that if I'm right then players with TJO will have to use X/Y to jump OoS, which is already done

So you...cancel the grab with a jump?

no, you cancel the shield input I'm assuming is present in grabs with a jump

 

[Darklink401]

not necessarily


not necessarily. It just means that if I'm right then players with TJO will have to use X/Y to jump OoS, which is already done


no, you cancel the shield input I'm assuming is present in grabs with a jump

TJO?

And wait, just so we're clear, what's the sequence of button presses here?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Tap Jump On. And I'm not sure, I haven't been able to pull it off yet but I'm assuming its

Tap and hold side to run > grab > jump > jump cancelled action

the JC action has to be done nearly simultaneously with the jump ofc

 

[Darklink401]

Huh...

Tap Jump On. And I'm not sure, I haven't been able to pull it off yet but I'm assuming its

Tap and hold side to run > grab > jump > jump cancelled action

the JC action has to be done nearly simultaneously with the jump ofc

Whenever I try to quickly grab to jump, my character just grabs, no matter how quickly I do it >:

Should I jump with the control stick?

 

[skillskillfiretruck]

I can do it 30% of the time (and will increase), BUT
I only do dash>up smash. I don't do the dash >grab > grab cancelled > up smash.

It seems to be the same amount of sliding as the one in the video.

 

[Darklink401]

But that's impossible x.x Because then the upsmash has nowhere to go.

 

[warionumbah2]

Impossible for me since i have C-stick set to attack for easy SH Dairs without losing moment or Sh Bair.

Rather have that aerial edge than this new AT which will probably get patched if this reaches Nintendo.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Alright so I finally got my own Wii U last night so today I've been playing around with this.

After playing around trying to do this for a little while, I managed to figure this thing out.

It happens when you input an Up Smash during one of the first few frames of Villager's transition from dash to run. If you set the game to 1/4 speed in training mode, you can notice the visual cue for said transition since Villager's dash animation doesn't transition smoothly into his run animation (whole body gets slightly shifted, head tilts a bit, etc.). That's when you need to Up Smash.

So, in other words, this just requires strict timing, and has absolutely nothing to do with grab cancelling stuff. You don't need to be fast, just tap and hold forward and do an Up Smash at the right time. As for how strict it is, it feels like it's one specific frame or two at max, but it's not really that hard to do.

Didn't test it intensively, but while others characters seemed to also be able to do this, the results were nowhere near as strong as Villager's.

Based Punpun was right. Granted, I'm using a the gamepad because I can't find the adapters anywhere and didn't feel like dropping another 50 for the pro controller at the time, but so far I haven't been able to get this to work by inputting grab, neither with shield+A nor Z. Every time I've pulled it off has been by inputting USmash during the dash to run transition, as @ Ryota said.

 

[Player-1]

how big is the window?

 

[TimeSmash]

Alright so I finally got my own Wii U last night so today I've been playing around with this.

Based Punpun was right. Granted, I'm using a the gamepad because I can't find the adapters anywhere and didn't feel like dropping another 50 for the pro controller at the time, but so far I haven't been able to get this to work by inputting grab, neither with shield+A nor Z. Every time I've pulled it off has been by inputting USmash during the dash to run transition, as @ Ryota said.

So did the dash grab's velocity come into play? I'm not sure if it would, but it does seem like they have their own momentum. Like if you dashed, and then stopped, and then dash grabbed then, you still move forward a ways. The last moving forward might be how it effects the range

 

[Indigo Jeans]

...not very big to be honest. If I had to give a rough estimate of how often Im able to do it, itd probably be something like 3 times out of ten. The wibdow is not forgiving at all. Too early or too late and all you get is a regular running usmash. Though when you do pull it off youll definitely be able to tell.

Ive been looking for audio cues to help alert me when the dash to run transition happens, because realistically the camera isnt going to be able to let you see that very clearly, but I havent had much luck

A-at least its easier than the one-chop...

Edit: @ TimeSmash : like I said, every time I've done it it was without inputting a grab (so no possible dash grab momentum could have been involved)