[MU] Pit/Dark Pit

[AlMawile]

Hello. I'm new to smashboards, and I've picked up Link as my main.

I've been having trouble with the matchup against Pit/Dark Pit. Despite using him before myself, he is someone I just can't deal with. His arrow camping is difficult to deal with because he can deal with dodging by bending his arrows. His dash attack always surprises me, and every Pit seems to spam that. And his Guradian Orbitars reflect our projectiles at us. He seems to outcamp Link in every way. His melee game is much faster than Link's too. His aerials come out very fast, especially Bair and Fair. His ground attacks seem to be almost the same as Link's except faster. His smash attacks seem almost identical, but just faster. He is also hard to gimp due to his amazing recovery. How can I deal with these things well?

 

[Elessar]

I'll y just address two thing briefly. His recovery doesn't have a hitbox, so don't be afraid to go after him off stage and gimp with an aerial. Our Hylian shield block his arrow, so just walk or run (don't dash) towards him and his arrows are rendered useless.

 

[sasook]

0:15-0:59

 

[Lawz.]

I'll y just address two thing briefly. His recovery doesn't have a hitbox, so don't be afraid to go after him off stage and gimp with an aerial. Our Hylian shield block his arrow, so just walk or run (don't dash) towards him and his arrows are rendered useless.

I've been practicing Dark Pit lately so I'll add some stuff. Zane and I played each other a few days ago and we did this matchup (how ever many games we played)

The recovery doesn't have a hitbox, but you are not gimping that character with an aerial, that recovery goes waaayyyyyy farther than people think. If you want to threaten a Pit/Dark Pit while they're offstage, force them to sweet spot the edge (which they literally almost always need to) by chucking projectiles to force them to go low and ledge trump or condition them into thinking you're going to ledge trump and bait a buffered roll or getup. Also, they have 3 jumps which they can use to hover (basically) and can literally shoot an arrow at Link before trying to actually recover. And don't forget they can use side b (which has armor) to grab the ledge depending on how close they are.

Pit's fsmash is decently fast so be careful what moves you throw out at higher percents, because he can do fsmash OoS. Pit's ftilt has better kill power than Dark Pit's (whereas Dark Pit has harder hitting smashes I believe). Their side b also kills and are good at punishing rolls and has armor so it can actually absorb an attack (he still takes damage) and hit you. Pit's side b sends his opponent farther upward as opposed to Dark Pit who sends them more horizontally. I would think Dark Pit's would be more dangerous in this matchup since it sends you farther offstage and to more to the side. Pit is also able to punish quite a few moves with his dash attack (bomb pulls, tilts, jabs) and it sends Link up in a bad spot for possible juggles.

Both characters can easily hit Link's shins to negate the Hylian Shield. I personally find it easier to do this as Dark Pit since his arrows have a different trajectory than Pit. Walking will not render them useless, you might block one or two, but no Pit is going to stop shooting arrows, especially when he can shoot Link during bomb pulls, (if the arrow is fully charged, I believe it can actually make Link drop the bomb, I think...)

Also, Pit/Dark Pit are VERY good at punishing Link in the air since a lot of their aerials are multi hitting and have pretty good range/juggle potential so be careful when challenging with Nair or something.

At low percents, Pit can fthrow > dash attack and depending on DI he can then follow up with a Nair or usmash. He can also do dthrow combos, (Nair, dair, fair and usmash all true combo at low percent)

Pit can also ledge trump into a bair for a kill setup. And his bair is pretty powerful.

When I played Zane, he did really well when he had the space to chuck bombs, rang and arrows so Link obviously should be zoning in this matchup. He also had some tricky soft bomb setups/traps that made it a little harder to approach him (Pit has low aerial mobility so he will most likely be doing more ground approaches, if he approaches from the air it's easier for Link to hit him and throw ****).

Pit/Dark Pit do indeed have a reflector, but it can be baited out and if he does it in closer range, you can definitely punish that. Oh, also their side b also reflects projectiles.

 

[AlMawile]

I've been practicing Dark Pit lately so I'll add some stuff. Zane and I played each other a few days ago and we did this matchup (how ever many games we played)

The recovery doesn't have a hitbox, but you are not gimping that character with an aerial, that recovery goes waaayyyyyy farther than people think. If you want to threaten a Pit/Dark Pit while they're offstage, force them to sweet spot the edge (which they literally almost always need to) by chucking projectiles to force them to go low and ledge trump or condition them into thinking you're going to ledge trump and bait a buffered roll or getup. Also, they have 3 jumps which they can use to hover (basically) and can literally shoot an arrow at Link before trying to actually recover. And don't forget they can use side b (which has armor) to grab the ledge depending on how close they are.

Pit's fsmash is decently fast so be careful what moves you throw out at higher percents, because he can do fsmash OoS. Pit's ftilt has better kill power than Dark Pit's (whereas Dark Pit has harder hitting smashes I believe). Their side b also kills and are good at punishing rolls and has armor so it can actually absorb an attack (he still takes damage) and hit you. Pit's side b sends his opponent farther upward as opposed to Dark Pit who sends them more horizontally. I would think Dark Pit's would be more dangerous in this matchup since it sends you farther offstage and to more to the side. Pit is also able to punish quite a few moves with his dash attack (bomb pulls, tilts, jabs) and it sends Link up in a bad spot for possible juggles.

Both characters can easily hit Link's shins to negate the Hylian Shield. I personally find it easier to do this as Dark Pit since his arrows have a different trajectory than Pit. Walking will not render them useless, you might block one or two, but no Pit is going to stop shooting arrows, especially when he can shoot Link during bomb pulls, (if the arrow is fully charged, I believe it can actually make Link drop the bomb, I think...)

Also, Pit/Dark Pit are VERY good at punishing Link in the air since a lot of their aerials are multi hitting and have pretty good range/juggle potential so be careful when challenging with Nair or something.

At low percents, Pit can fthrow > dash attack and depending on DI he can then follow up with a Nair or usmash. He can also do dthrow combos, (Nair, dair, fair and usmash all true combo at low percent)

Pit can also ledge trump into a bair for a kill setup. And his bair is pretty powerful.

When I played Zane, he did really well when he had the space to chuck bombs, rang and arrows so Link obviously should be zoning in this matchup. He also had some tricky soft bomb setups/traps that made it a little harder to approach him (Pit has low aerial mobility so he will most likely be doing more ground approaches, if he approaches from the air it's easier for Link to hit him and throw ****).

Pit/Dark Pit do indeed have a reflector, but it can be baited out and if he does it in closer range, you can definitely punish that. Oh, also their side b also reflects projectiles.

I see.

Well from what I practiced today, it seems that most Pit/Dark Pits have a pattern. Some of them go for dthrow to usmash, which is a surprise, and covers the airdodge when you are expecting an aerial.

It seems the best way to go is to keep them near the center. Since they will try to gimp you, and have amazing recovery options, keeping them on stage will be better. They only have one projectile, which after a while becomes predictable, even after bending (unless the opponent is smart and really good with the bend, then it becomes a problem).

Hylian shield doesn't always seem to work against the arrows. Side b is very predictable, because most people know when it will come out. I try to bait it out and then hard punish.

Soft throwing never worked for me, because most of them aren't scared to pick it up and chuck it back at me. I like to use my arrows speed to overcome his.

His dash attack is the hardest to deal with. The only thing I can use to interrupt his momentum is a bomb, and only if I have it in my hand. If I try to pull while he's running at me, he'll most likely hit me before I can throw it. I like to tomohawk jab, but dash attack or fsmash hits me before I can get out the jab or tilt.

In this case, I guess conditioning and setups will only work. Reading will be a must.

 

[Lawz.]

I see.

Well from what I practiced today, it seems that most Pit/Dark Pits have a pattern. Some of them go for dthrow to usmash, which is a surprise, and covers the airdodge when you are expecting an aerial.

It seems the best way to go is to keep them near the center. Since they will try to gimp you, and have amazing recovery options, keeping them on stage will be better. They only have one projectile, which after a while becomes predictable, even after bending (unless the opponent is smart and really good with the bend, then it becomes a problem).

Hylian shield doesn't always seem to work against the arrows. Side b is very predictable, because most people know when it will come out. I try to bait it out and then hard punish.

Soft throwing never worked for me, because most of them aren't scared to pick it up and chuck it back at me. I like to use my arrows speed to overcome his.

His dash attack is the hardest to deal with. The only thing I can use to interrupt his momentum is a bomb, and only if I have it in my hand. If I try to pull while he's running at me, he'll most likely hit me before I can throw it. I like to tomohawk jab, but dash attack or fsmash hits me before I can get out the jab or tilt.

In this case, I guess conditioning and setups will only work. Reading will be a must.

I would use soft bombs usually after holding the bomb for just a bit, you know to cook it. That way them trying to throw it back won't be as big a deal. Also you can do things like z dropped bombs so that when you zair, the bombs sits on the floor.

Really it's about keeping your distance and constantly throwing the right stuff at the right range, make Pit move around and get him in the air (again his air mobility is pretty poor). You want to be tacking on damage, moving away to gain real estate, and just frustrate them.

And if you're having a tough time pulling bombs, cover yourself with projectiles (throw a boomerang, jump shoot an arrow and then double jump bomb pull or something), just keep mixing it up.

 

[noisetank01]

It's an unbelievably hard matchup for me. Definitely my least favorite.
It is, however, the matchup I play the most, and I have at least a bit of advice that I hope can contribute to the discussion:

Spoiler

It's tough because nearly everything we do exposes us and is easy for Pit to punish- whereas Pit seems to be able to throw out almost anything and not worry much about retaliation. He definitely has to think a whole lot less than us.
his down B reflector does have a finite length to it, so if he sees an arrow coming, you can just wait it out and launch during his recovery.
His side B leaves him vulnerable, but only if you're lucky enough to be near him when he's in recovery.

The Pit that I fight most often mixes up dashing A, side B, and his dashing grab. The dashing grab is actually the scariest thing about him, for me. My best tactic versus his approach (besides just running away and zoning) is to just stand still and let him come to me, while I have either a spot dodge or a jab1 ready to spring. Jab 1 beats out his dashing a and his dashing grab fairly consistently, but after a while, he'll get bored of that and go for the side B. this is sometimes the only thing i can do in an omega stage. I wish jab1 jab 2 jab 3 was better, but without jab-cancel, it's all we got.


Side B is rough because, in theory, it should be this thing that players can read, bait, and punish, but if we spot dodge it, usually he gets carried too far away for us to punish, and if we block it, depending on how early or late in the animation we were able to catch it, he'll sometimes either bounce back and away from us, or sometimes even pass through our shield entirely.

Any FD or omega stage is obviously to his advantage since the middle of the stage is small and there's nowhere to run. Pulling out a bomb is too dangerous as was mentioned before; boomerangs are risky (even with a hop backwards to keep you moving during the startup); and arrows aren't really good for much of anything.

If you're lucky enough to cover yourself with a boomerang and pull out a bomb, you can use it to stuff pit's arrows (it just eats those arrows and strikes pit during his recovery for free), or plant it with a neutral z.air to prevent pit from approaching with side B (since he treats the bomb as the target and performs the uppercut on it, instead of you), the best use of bombs, if you're lucky enough to have one, though, (in my opinion) is to just hang on to it and use it as a better dashing A. people lament the loss of our quicker, former dashing A, but a dashing bomb throw is just as good.

I wouldn't recommend throwing too much, unless your Pit/opponent starts rolling too much and you can catch him between rolls, or if you're ballsy enough to catch his Side B on reaction- however, IF you can catch him, I recommend NOT throwing him, our throws aren't good enough to kill him, and because of his three floats and his light weight, there's nothing we can do to follow up beside spawn a bomb during the breather. while in grap, just wail on him and rack up the damage and wait for him to auto-spring out, at this point, you can gimmick him with a jab 1, jab 2, jab 3, which will hit an overconfident pit trying to strike you back, after that fails a couple of times, they're either going to jump out, or they're going to try to punish your hubris by lacing into you with a side B- this is the moment you're waiting for. he'll be at point blank range and you'll see it coming. Block the side B and punish with d.smash.

Versus Pit's gimping: try and delay your second jump for as long as possible. come in from a low angle (fast-fall if you have to) to the edge and use your second jump followed almost immediately by your up-B and use the momentum of the second jump to carry your up-B the extra distance. the low angle and the hitbox on up-B should negate Pit's best air pursuit options. avoid rolling back onto the stage to keep from getting read with Pit's charged side Smash.

I consistently have matches with Pit where I'm able to crank him up to over 190%~200%, but I struggle to nail the kills since nearly everything is too risky. the only thing even remotely reliable is dancing around him at neutral with short hops and n.airs (to avoid his throws), eventually he'll make a mistake and come in a little too hot, and I can kill him with an u.tilt or he'll roll at an inopportune time and I can score a down smash between his rolls.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I personally think Z-air is really important in this matchup given Pit is kinda tall, and it's one of few things you have in midrange that actually outranges him. Other than that, he kinda outranges Link noticeably with his other moves, which is scary when he also has a good grab game.

 

[Lawz.]

I personally think Z-air is really important in this matchup given Pit is kinda tall, and it's one of few things you have in midrange that actually outranges him. Other than that, he kinda outranges Link noticeably with his other moves, which is scary when he also has a good grab game.

Well Link's opponent can just powershield every projectile all the time, so Link loses.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well Link's opponent can just powershield every projectile all the time, so Link loses.

Gale Boomerang sucks in neutral. Arrows should basically never get powershielded given they travel faster than reaction time, but need to be used in long range to be safe. Bombs have all the great advantages of item tossing, but take a long time to pull. Dunno why you're trolling. It's pretty obvious that Link gets crapped on by good midrange games given all his projectiles are garbage in midrange (Bomb toss though is good, but you shouldn't be pulling Bombs in midrange most of the time).