SD Remix - 3.3 Full with Slippi Rollback Released!

[Myougi]

I strongly agree with keeping her predictable, but I feel like she could still stand to be improved in other ways (not that I could really suggest what they should be). On the other hand, I would also worry that changing her AI even a little is going to throw off players who use Ice Climbers in vanilla more so than the other changes would. What do I know though; I'm not an ICs player.

Are there any experienced Ice Climbers players you could discuss this with? Are there any you've already contacted?

I am an experienced Icies player. (At least, I like to think that I am. I'll pass this question to Fly later tonight.)

 

[Stride]

I am an experienced Icies player. (At least, I like to think that I am. I'll pass this question to Fly later tonight.)

Sorry, I didn't notice your flair.

 

[Quillion]

Okay, you know how in Smash U where all multi-hit moves now link into a finisher with high knockback for increased safety?

SD Remix has already done a bit of this like with Mewtwo's up-smash. Is it possible to apply this to everyone's rapid jabs?

It could even be a potential (and ONLY) buff for the Star Fox duo as well as Sheik. (NOTE: not saying it SHOULD be)

 

[CeLL]

Okay, you know how in Smash U where all multi-hit moves now link into a finisher with high knockback for increased safety?

SD Remix has already done a bit of this like with Mewtwo's up-smash. Is it possible to apply this to everyone's rapid jabs?

It could even be a potential (and ONLY) buff for the Star Fox duo as well as Sheik. (NOTE: not saying it SHOULD be)

Mewtwo's usmash ends with a powerful finishing hit in vMelee.

 

[_glook]

I've created a netplay guide if y'all wanted to play SD Remix over netplay. Check it out: http://sdremix.com/netplay-guide/

Let me know if you guys find inaccuracies or if there are any other problems with the guide.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Okay, you know how in Smash U where all multi-hit moves now link into a finisher with high knockback for increased safety?

SD Remix has already done a bit of this like with Mewtwo's up-smash. Is it possible to apply this to everyone's rapid jabs?

It could even be a potential (and ONLY) buff for the Star Fox duo as well as Sheik. (NOTE: not saying it SHOULD be)

Interesting idea. Rapid jabs are generally deemed useless but I think they might have some "unexplored potential" (lol). I like to rapid jab at times when I think my opponent will be stuck in their shield, and partly because it is such un-used option (due to being a bad one) I rarely get punished for it.

I do not think jabs should in improved in the way you described, but we could perhaps universally lower their endlag so that they would not be such a terrible option. However, I feel that as multi-hit jabs are terrible now, they should remain "bad" in SD Remix as well. Because I feel that it would result in some pretty lame gameplay if they we good

Another topic (something I was thinking about): I think SD Remix is going to benefit from the online-play as it (currently) has a relatively small player base. Online Melee has significantly improved from what it was so I am excited about the possibilities in the future (optimisation of Dolphin, improvement of PC hardware [Melee 60 fps]). Going to try to get SDR working online but I think my computer is too slow to run Melee in 60fps (Macbook Pro lul).

 

[Quillion]

Interesting idea. Rapid jabs are generally deemed useless but I think they might have some "unexplored potential" (lol). I like to rapid jab at times when I think my opponent will be stuck in their shield, and partly because it is such un-used option (due to being a bad one) I rarely get punished for it.

I do not think jabs should in improved in the way you described, but we could perhaps universally lower their endlag so that they would not be such a terrible option. However, I feel that as multi-hit jabs are terrible now, they should remain "bad" in SD Remix as well. Because I feel that it would result in some pretty lame gameplay if they we good

Another topic (something I was thinking about): I think SD Remix is going to benefit from the online-play as it (currently) has a relatively small player base. Online Melee has significantly improved from what it was so I am excited about the possibilities in the future (optimisation of Dolphin, improvement of PC hardware [Melee 60 fps]). Going to try to get SDR working online but I think my computer is too slow to run Melee in 60fps (Macbook Pro lul).

But most players don't use it anyway. Adding it wouldn't change things very significantly because players will still choose not to use it if they don't want to (assuming an improved rapid jab finisher has too low knockback to do anything with aside from knock the opponent back a little).

 

[CeLL]

But most players don't use it anyway. Adding it wouldn't change things very significantly because players will still choose not to use it if they don't want to (assuming an improved rapid jab finisher has too low knockback to do anything with aside from knock the opponent back a little).

How many rapid jabs can be SDI'd in 1.00? It seems like if there are characters whose rapid jabs you can SDI, it would be an indirect nerf to them while buffing other characters, including Fox.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

But most players don't use it anyway. Adding it wouldn't change things very significantly because players will still choose not to use it if they don't want to (assuming an improved rapid jab finisher has too low knockback to do anything with aside from knock the opponent back a little).

But they will in SDR, eventually, if we make that option good, and it is important to consider changes like this from the perspective of balance.

So why exactly rapid jabs are bad? Because they cannot be cancelled and often have endlag. They also have low knockback which makes them prone to be punished by ccing. Aside from that, they are extremely fast and should not be overbuffed should any changes be made.

 

[Quillion]

But they will in SDR, eventually, if we make that option good, and it is important to consider changes like this from the perspective of balance.

So why exactly rapid jabs are bad? Because they cannot be cancelled and often have endlag. They also have low knockback which makes them prone to be punished by ccing. Aside from that, they are extremely fast and should not be overbuffed should any changes be made.

So rapid jabs could be reworked so that if you hold it for too long, the opponent can easily DI out and punish. The minimum length of rapid jabs could be decreased and/or a final hit can be added so that they're useful, and the strength of the individual hits could be decreased so that they're not too game-changing.

 

[That1Roy]

my body is Reggie

 

[flieskiller]

my body is Reggie

Need more Pichu

 

[_glook]

Zelda's overview:

Changes to the changelist:
Dtilt doesn't have cooldown decrease
FSmash sucks into Zelda more (that's what reworked loop hitboxes mean)
Usmash made range bigger to connect better, and made second round of hits earlier to connect better
Dsmash isn't any longer
Nair's hitboxes are larger. There's a disjointed hitbox behind Zelda.
Nair's landing hitbox lasts 6 frames, 3 on l-cancel.
Dair has no sourspot, all hitboxes behave the same
Nayru's Love's non-final hits deals more damage per hit, sucks you in and up instead of out
Farore's Wind's Emergence duration is the same

 

[HalcyonDays]

Once again, thanks for all the work you guys put in.

Character balancing, video change logs, everything! Quite meticulous work, indeed!

That Zelda video's second track though, that medley...

Your music choices are always sooo good...

Looks like I'll also be playing around with Zelda later.

 

[CeLL]

I've created a netplay guide if y'all wanted to play SD Remix over netplay. Check it out: http://sdremix.com/netplay-guide/

Let me know if you guys find inaccuracies or if there are any other problems with the guide.

If you use a 1.02 or 1.01 iso, you must also change the version byte (0x7) to 00 (I think).

 

[DRGN]

If you use a 1.02 or 1.01 iso, you must also change the version byte (0x7) to 00 (I think).

Uh. Ok my original post was confused. Why are you guys changing this byte? I was about to release a program that uses this, which means it's no longer reliable.

 

[_glook]

If you use a 1.02 or 1.01 iso, you must also change the version byte (0x7) to 00 (I think).

Did you set that byte to 00 when we played? It seemed to work well when we played.

 

[CeLL]

Did you set that byte to 00 when we played? It seemed to work well when we played.

Yes.

It would be better to use the DOL mod for this. Especially if we want to be able to use that byte for correctly, programmatically identifying ISO versions (which I do!).

It will be a 1.00 DOL after you do the file replacements. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[DRGN]

Yeah, I just now edited my post before you responded. I thought you were editing it for a specific reason, but now I'm confused.

Why are you guys changing it? I was about to release a program that uses that byte, but if people change it, that means that that byte is no longer reliable to look at to know what version the ISO is. I mean, it won't actually change the DOL version by changing that byte, so you're just doing it to trick Dolphin, right?

 

[CeLL]

Yeah, I just now edited my post before you responded. I thought you were editing it for a specific reason, but now I'm confused.

Why are you guys changing it? I was about to release a program that uses that byte, but if people change it, that means that that byte is no longer reliable to look at to know what version the ISO is. I mean, it won't actually change the DOL version by changing that byte, so you're just doing it to trick Dolphin, right?

Using a 1.01/1.02 iso to create SDR will result in an iso with a 1.00 dol but 01 or 02 version byte (incorrect) and won't consider them the same game for netplay purposes (I think). So you have to change it so it matches the dol.

 

[_glook]

I'm not personally sure whether Dolphin pays attention to that byte or not, as I think I was able to play someone who just started netplay and built SD Remix off of 1.2. I'm not totally sure if he changed the version number, though I did walk him through changing the Game ID. I added the step to change the version number in the netplay guide just to be safe.

 

[Doq]

Dolphin solely looks at the Game ID for netplay. That's why SDR can play vMelee online on normal conditions.

 

[DRGN]

If the Doqtor is correct, then I see no reason for changing the version byte (unless I'm still missing something).

If the version byte really does need to be changed, I do have a plan B, and [more complicated yet existent] plan C, but plan A, the version byte, is just obviously the easiest to use. I guess it would just be best to look at the disc and DOL versions independently.

I guess it's hard to say what version the disc should reflect if not all of its parts are of the same game version. An originally 1.02 disc with a 1.00 DOL will still have changes elsewhere in the game that are specific to 1.02. But since the DOL is the biggest change, maybe it does make more sense for the disc to reflect that. I'm conflicted. lol

 

[Mwauthzyx]

I'm very interested in playing and streaming this. Looks really cool.

 

[_glook]

Roy Overview:

Corrections to changelist:
Slash's damage and base increase is for the tip only
Ftilt tip has significantly increased base knockback, damage on tip is +5 instead of +2
Dtilt's damage only affects the tip and is 6->9; the base damage also only affects the tip.
Dash attack: Damage and knockback only affect tip.
FSmash: BASE and GROW only affect the tip
UpSmash: Instead of added horizontal range, say higher hitboxes are bigger lower are smaller.
DSmash: Both hits have increased BASE for all hitboxes. Back sweetspot doesn't seem to have increased GROW, left it in just in case.
Nair: Damage and knockback only apply to second hit.
Fair: Increased base knockback on non-tip
Fair: Tipper's damage from 5 to 8. Tipper BASE much higher.
Bair: Overall, BASE increased. Tip damage is 6 -> 10%, non-tip is 9->14.
Uair: Sweetspot's BASE is actually increased (GROW is still probably decreased)
Dair: Damage increased, 6 -> 12 for tip, 9 -> 12 for mid, 9 -> 16 for sweetspot
Dair: BASE and GROW on tip and non-tip increase to the same
Dair: Angle changed for non-tip, Away -> Down
Dair: Angle changed for tip, Up -> Down
Neutral B: Also has increased knockback growth
Side+B Start: Tip damage 4->5, Tip BASE increased
- 2Hi: Tip dmg 4->6, , Tip BASE increased
- 2Lw: Tip dmg 4->6, Tip BASE increased
- 3Hi: Almost tip meteors (not actual tip) and has increased damage (8->10)
Tip has increased base knockback
- 3Mi: Tip BASE increased, normal BASE label as non-tip
- 3Lw: No corrections
- 4Hi: Tip BASE increased
- 4Mi: Tip BASE increased
- 4Lw: No corrections
Up+B: Lasts more frames and deals more hits

 

[Peléo]

I would like to point out that Melee HD remix also appeals to low-tier mains. It is good to be actually powerfull once in a while. Besides, the stages are really nice.

 

[_glook]

Hey so Dan Salvato created an AR codeset for lagless FoD but it only works for 1.2:

Spoiler

$Lagless Fountain of Dreams (v1.2)
041cbbd4 60000000
041cbefc 48000028
041cbf54 60000000
041cbf84 60000000

I managed to convert it to 1.0:
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000

I was thinking that the game could dynamically determine if there were 4 players selected or not. If there are 4 players, it would run the code above. If there are less than 4 players, it could run the following code:

Spoiler

Normal FOD 1.0
041CAC04 48000115
041CAF2C 41820028
041caf84 48000BC5
041cafb4 4BFFD775

(This effectively restores the code to the normal values)

In Dolphin, I've tested the normal FoD code by applying the Lagless code then applying the Normal code, and verified that I get normal FOD. When I just apply the Lagless code without applying the normal version, I get the lagless version, as expected.

However, if I apply either code AFTER I've already played on FoD once, the does not seem to do anything at all. If I play on a lagless FoD then apply the normal code, I still get lagless on subsequent plays on the same stage. If I play on normal FoD then apply the lagless code, I still get the normal FoD. Is Dolphin doing something funky by caching loaded stages for speedups on subsequent plays on that stage? I would wager to guess that this is the case, because when I first load a stage or character, Dolphin hiccups, but it hiccups less as I keep playing.

If this is a Dolphin ONLY issue where the FoD doesn't change, then I can imagine that you can use these codes to dynamically turn lagless and normal FoDs on and off to allow tournament legal doubles play on that stage. I've found some memory addresses that store what type of player type is in each player slot.

Spoiler

If NONE, the value is 0x03. HUMAN = 0x00. CPU = 0x01. These are all 8-bit values.
Player 1: 003EEF78 (also at 003EEF77 and 0047E859)
Player 2: 003EEF9C (also at 003EEF9B and 0047E87D)
Player 3: 003EEFC0 (also at 003EEFBF and 0047E8A1)
Player 4: 003EEFE4 (also at 003EEFE3 and 0047E8C5)

Do you think this is doable? I tried doing this is AR in dolphin, but it seems I don't understand the "branching" codes with action replay. I tried this out:

Spoiler

$If all player slots aren't NONE, use lagless
093EEF78 00000003
093EEF9C 00000003
093EEFC0 00000003
093EEFE4 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000
00000000 40000000
00000000 40000000
00000000 40000000

$If at least one player slot is NONE, use normal
883EEF78 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000
883EEF9C 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000
883EEFC0 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000
883EEFE4 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000

But if I put this in the Cheat Manager in Dolphin, it always ends up loading lagless regardless of how many player slots there are.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to strong arm you guys into doing anything you don't want to, but I had some time on my hands and thought this would be kinda cool, and wanted to discuss the possibility and whether what I'm doing would do what I want it to do to begin with (given the problems I've run into).

 

[Myougi]

Hey so Dan Salvato created an AR codeset for lagless FoD but it only works for 1.2:

Spoiler

$Lagless Fountain of Dreams (v1.2)
041cbbd4 60000000
041cbefc 48000028
041cbf54 60000000
041cbf84 60000000

I managed to convert it to 1.0:
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000

I was thinking that the game could dynamically determine if there were 4 players selected or not. If there are 4 players, it would run the code above. If there are less than 4 players, it could run the following code:

Spoiler

Normal FOD 1.0
041CAC04 48000115
041CAF2C 41820028
041caf84 48000BC5
041cafb4 4BFFD775

(This effectively restores the code to the normal values)

In Dolphin, I've tested the normal FoD code by applying the Lagless code then applying the Normal code, and verified that I get normal FOD. When I just apply the Lagless code without applying the normal version, I get the lagless version, as expected.

However, if I apply either code AFTER I've already played on FoD once, the does not seem to do anything at all. If I play on a lagless FoD then apply the normal code, I still get lagless on subsequent plays on the same stage. If I play on normal FoD then apply the lagless code, I still get the normal FoD. Is Dolphin doing something funky by caching loaded stages for speedups on subsequent plays on that stage? I would wager to guess that this is the case, because when I first load a stage or character, Dolphin hiccups, but it hiccups less as I keep playing.

If this is a Dolphin ONLY issue where the FoD doesn't change, then I can imagine that you can use these codes to dynamically turn lagless and normal FoDs on and off to allow tournament legal doubles play on that stage. I've found some memory addresses that store what type of player type is in each player slot.

Spoiler

If NONE, the value is 0x03. HUMAN = 0x00. CPU = 0x01. These are all 8-bit values.
Player 1: 003EEF78 (also at 003EEF77 and 0047E859)
Player 2: 003EEF9C (also at 003EEF9B and 0047E87D)
Player 3: 003EEFC0 (also at 003EEFBF and 0047E8A1)
Player 4: 003EEFE4 (also at 003EEFE3 and 0047E8C5)

Do you think this is doable? I tried doing this is AR in dolphin, but it seems I don't understand the "branching" codes with action replay. I tried this out:

Spoiler

$If all player slots aren't NONE, use lagless
093EEF78 00000003
093EEF9C 00000003
093EEFC0 00000003
093EEFE4 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000
00000000 40000000
00000000 40000000
00000000 40000000

$If at least one player slot is NONE, use normal
883EEF78 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000
883EEF9C 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000
883EEFC0 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000
883EEFE4 00000003
041CAC04 60000000
041CAF2C 48000028
041caf84 60000000
041cafb4 60000000
00000000 40000000

But if I put this in the Cheat Manager in Dolphin, it always ends up loading lagless regardless of how many player slots there are.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to strong arm you guys into doing anything you don't want to, but I had some time on my hands and thought this would be kinda cool, and wanted to discuss the possibility and whether what I'm doing would do what I want it to do to begin with (given the problems I've run into).

I talked with Dan earlier and improved his lagless FoD slightly after learning some things. CeLL told me the water under the platforms can lag the game, so I removed them. I just told Dan to add this code to the end of his:
(1.2) @0x1C948C paste write FC000028 in the DOL.
Converted to 1.0:
(1.0) @0x1CDABC paste write FC000028 in the DOL.

I like the idea of creating a code that checks the ports to determine if or if not the lagless code should be loaded when selecting the stage. I think IE was even talking about doing this for 20XXTE (The code is not going to be in the build anymore though). I can try giving this a shot, but I suggest asking Wooggle or Achilles about something like this.

EDIT:
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT. The oringal lagless FoD code is probably being saved in Dolphin's cache, overriding the new code from changing it at all. This usually happens with Flash on L-Cancel codes with dolphin (going back from one to the other mid-game is impossible). What you need to do is use this:

Flush Cache on Scene Change
C21A4B70 00000004
3C608000 3C80003C
3D808000 618C543C
7D8903A6 4E800420
60000000 00000000

 

[HalcyonDays]

Roy Overview

Our Boy is growing up into a fine young man.

This is the moment I've been waiting for!

 

[Myougi]

Our Boy is growing up into a fine young man.

This is the moment I've been waiting for!

A fine young man? Roy will always be our boy.

 

[_glook]

I talked with Dan earlier and improved his lagless FoD slightly after learning some things. CeLL told me the water under the platforms can lag the game, so I removed them. I just told Dan to add this code to the end of his:
(1.2) @0x1C948C paste write FC000028 in the DOL.
Converted to 1.0:
(1.0) @0x1CDABC paste write FC000028 in the DOL.

I like the idea of creating a code that checks the ports to determine if or if not the lagless code should be loaded when selecting the stage. I think IE was even talking about doing this for 20XXTE (The code is not going to be in the build anymore though). I can try giving this a shot, but I suggest asking Wooggle or Achilles about something like this.

EDIT:
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT. The oringal lagless FoD code is probably being saved in Dolphin's cache, overriding the new code from changing it at all. This usually happens with Flash on L-Cancel codes with dolphin (going back from one to the other mid-game is impossible). What you need to do is use this:

Flush Cache on Scene Change
C21A4B70 00000004
3C608000 3C80003C
3D808000 618C543C
7D8903A6 4E800420
60000000 00000000

Thanks for all the info and help! I'll mess with this a bit when I get a chance.

 

[Moy]

Rereading this thread and wishing SDR was the tournament standard. Would make many matchups way more interesting.

 

[_glook]

Mewtwo Overview:

Changes to the changelist:
Dash velocity hasn't changed
Dark Flash: CAN USE Flurry: 8 frames earlier
Ftilt: Removed "Other" stuff. Damage and BASE is only on tip, and damage is from 5->7.
Utilt: Existing information was removed. Replaced with:
Damage unchanged on base hitbox, but BASE increased
Damage on clean hit (first frame): 8 -> 10 (middle, clean), 5 -> 10 (tip, clean)
Damage on late hit (not-first frame): 10 -> 9 (base, late), 8 -> 9 (middle, late), 5 -> 9 (tip, late)
BASE: Decreased on middle hitboxes (both clean and late)
BASE: Increased on tip hitboxes (both clean and late)
GROW: Marginally changed, but unknown how it's changed. Left in just in case
Late hit of Almost tip: BASE decreased, damage increased from 6 -> 9
Dtilt: Sweetspot damage is unchanged. Sourspot (tip) damage is from 5 -> 6. Tip's BASE is increased.
Fsmash: Change IASA to Cooldown. Sourspot BASE increased as well.
USmash: non final hitboxes bigger, more disjointed. Final hit has increased BASE.
DSmash: BASE increased. Probably GROW, too.
Nair: Top two hitboxes deal 1% damage (reduces SDI ability)
Fair: Instead of just hitting side, starts high, slashes down, then back up and behind, covers bigger area
Bair: Tip hit increased damage (9 -> 11) and BASE, normal hit has increased BASE
Dair: Cooldown decreased, not duration
Standing Grab: Overall range increased
Shadow ball's pre-change frames decrease should be start up reduction
Shadow Cannon: Growth only applies to the shadow balls, not the throw itself
Confusion: Tumble is inescapable until opponent reaches Mewtwo's ground level, opponent will hit ground standing at low percents
Spot Dodge: IASA is actually Cooldown, no duration change

 

[Quillion]

Mewtwo Overview:

Changes to the changelist:
Dash velocity hasn't changed
Dark Flash: CAN USE Flurry: 8 frames earlier
Ftilt: Removed "Other" stuff. Damage and BASE is only on tip, and damage is from 5->7.
Utilt: Existing information was removed. Replaced with:
Damage unchanged on base hitbox, but BASE increased
Damage on clean hit (first frame): 8 -> 10 (middle, clean), 5 -> 10 (tip, clean)
Damage on late hit (not-first frame): 10 -> 9 (base, late), 8 -> 9 (middle, late), 5 -> 9 (tip, late)
BASE: Decreased on middle hitboxes (both clean and late)
BASE: Increased on tip hitboxes (both clean and late)
GROW: Marginally changed, but unknown how it's changed. Left in just in case
Late hit of Almost tip: BASE decreased, damage increased from 6 -> 9
Dtilt: Sweetspot damage is unchanged. Sourspot (tip) damage is from 5 -> 6. Tip's BASE is increased.
Fsmash: Change IASA to Cooldown. Sourspot BASE increased as well.
USmash: non final hitboxes bigger, more disjointed. Final hit has increased BASE.
DSmash: BASE increased. Probably GROW, too.
Nair: Top two hitboxes deal 1% damage (reduces SDI ability)
Fair: Instead of just hitting side, starts high, slashes down, then back up and behind, covers bigger area
Bair: Tip hit increased damage (9 -> 11) and BASE, normal hit has increased BASE
Dair: Cooldown decreased, not duration
Standing Grab: Overall range increased
Shadow ball's pre-change frames decrease should be start up reduction
Shadow Cannon: Growth only applies to the shadow balls, not the throw itself
Confusion: Tumble is inescapable until opponent reaches Mewtwo's ground level, opponent will hit ground standing at low percents
Spot Dodge: IASA is actually Cooldown, no duration change

Looking at Mewtwo in Smash U, it really seems to be more similar to SD Remix than it is to Project M aside from still being really light.

 

[_glook]

Game & Watch overview:

Changes to changelist:
Ftilt: BASE knockback increased
Dtilt: No changes made at all to Dtilt
FSmash: Late hit has increased damage (6 -> 12) and significantly increased BASE
USmash: Damage: 18 -> 21
BASE increased
DSmash: BASE is for Sweetspot hitboxes
GROW: Change to "Sweetspot"
Stats for dtilt are for the dsmash sourspot
Fair: Knockback changes only apply to clean hit
Uair: First hit is much shorter
GROW only affects first hit
Second hit starts earlier
Dair: Hitbox has no disjointed change
Landing hitbox MUCH bigger
Landing hitbox has much lowered BASE
Landing hitbox's angle changed from away to down
2: BASE increased.
3: BASE increased. No momentum reset.
4: BASE Increased lots.
Damage reduced 8 -> 4.
5: BASE increased (all hits)
7: BASE: Increased
8: Opponent stuck frozen longer. Damage increased 4->16

 

[Peléo]

Right now, I can only play Melee SD remix on my GC. Is there any way to get it?

 

[Quillion]

Rereading this thread and wishing SDR was the tournament standard. Would make many matchups way more interesting.

Keep in mind, though that they're not necessarily as deep as the Fragile Speedster matchups we have in vMelee right now. It's an unfortunate consequence due to prioritizing balance over the skill-to-reward ratio.

Project M suffers from the same.

 

[_glook]

[Deleted].

 

[_glook]

Right now, I can only play Melee SD remix on my GC. Is there any way to get it?

Hello, we're happy to help. However, what do you mean by this? If you can already play on the GameCube, doesn't this mean you already have it?

Keep in mind, though that they're not necessarily as deep as the Fragile Speedster matchups we have in vMelee right now. It's an unfortunate consequence due to prioritizing balance over the skill-to-reward ratio.

Project M suffers from the same.

It's just a matter of time before they are, though. The side benefit of a larger cast is a longer meta-game shelf-life.

 

[Quillion]

It's just a matter of time before they are, though. The side benefit of a larger cast is a longer meta-game shelf-life.

As long as whoever the current programmers are keep in mind that they change things as little as possible this would be true.