Matchup Analysis #1 - Shiek

[LCC Son-in-Law]

Hey guys, sorry for being late on this. We're going to be starting our character matchup discussions again, beginning with Shiek. Please use this thread to talk about how you feel mac can or cannot handle the matchup, and just any general info regarding the Shiek vs Little Mac matchup. When it seems we have fully covered the matchup, I'll summarize the info into the opening post and we will go onto the next character.

Alright, discuss!

 

[SuperDavio]

Mac has a pretty similar game plan for most characters. The only thing that changes on his end is dealing with projectile harassment.

Sheik needles are some of the easiest harassment a character can have. In addition to pressure on stage while Mac approaches, she also has the ability to gimp him with aerial needles.

Sheik also has ftilt and dtilt, which easily convert to combos/links/chains/whatever you call them that end with the opponent in the air, either above Sheik or off stage. Both of these are horrid places for Mac, as he is either recovering or trying to land. Both of those things have limited approaches as Mac.

Her tilts are also fantastic get off me options, so you better be spacing everything perfectly. Ftilts at max range, body blows, rapid dtilts and such on your end.

From Mac's perspective, she's a medium weight character. You hit her, do the occasional throw mix up, and hit her some more. You'll want to dash shield needles on approach, and really make sure to not get grabbed. Pretend she's Luigi, because it's just as scary (actually, kinda worse) for Mac.

Overall, I'd put this as a 7-3 or so in Sheik's favor. Mac plays his same game, but the projectiles make it a bit harder. Sheik's damage method is also Mac's worst nightmare. This is definitely his worst matchup, in my opinion. I'd play any other character first.

 

[Zodiacx10]

shiek is one of the characters i would have a secondary ready to fight her with tbh
idk too much about the shiek mu cuz i dont play against a lot of shieks, but i guess ill jot down what i do know...

those fairs she can do to mac all the way off to the stage are quite scary for mac. what i recommend doing is never try to jump out of those because 90% of the time i end up losing my jump and dying. also make sure to di away from shiek, even if you're a little off stage, because as long as you have that second jump you can probably make it back and its better than getting hit 2 more times.

most likely the shiek player im guessing will spam needles from far away or spam forward airs next to you to bait you to shield or throw out a move then grab you and then push you off stage with the grab follow up.
-for this you can make a read and go for an up angled forward smash for fairs. if they fair your shield you can go for an up-b out of shield but its risky.
-needles idk what to do...i guess just jump over them or run up and shield and try to stop them from grabbing you by either jabbing right after or dodging...i would not try to smash attack them because they can grab you out of super armor and also block your smash. you can also try to side-b over the needles but with that almost full second cool down on side-b (a bit much i think lol) if you miss you're gonna get grabbed for sure. if you're feeling cool you can also try to run up and jump cancel neutral-b to heavy armor through the needles and then hit them idk

i wish i could give more info but idk the mu well...maybe i ought to head over to the shiek threads and find somebody to practice against

 

[CHOVI]

Well I think it's important to ban Smashville because it's really easy to get faired to death by sheik in this stage. Also, as Zodiac said, if you jump out of a fair string, you're dead.

 

[inconspikuous]

repost:

...but afaik sheik>mac. some points that i've come across:

1. mac can nair out of sheik's ftilt strings.
2. not ideal, but mac should opt for the more 'risky' usmash when facing a recovering sheik. it will catch bouncing fish a lot better than dsmash.
3. uptilted fsmash true combos into ko punch at 0%. abuse the super armour on a misspaced fair/ftilt.
4. spotdodge bouncing fish onstage. if you're not getting gimped, this will probably be the kill move that sheik will be fishing for.
5. from the sheik boards, DI up+into sheik to avoid sheik's fthrow>bouncing fish string.
6. pivot uptilted fsmashes work well against a committed sheik fair.
7. if you get stuck in a fair string, don't use your second jump.
8. never take sheik to smashville. the moving platform will carry you all the way to the blastzone on fair strings.
9. i think perfect pivot reverse utilts could be useful to continue mac strings because sheik is a fast faller, but i can't pull them off.
10. learn a top tier to counter sheik and play that character instead. i suggest mii brawler. similar style, except with good recovery & aerials...

also, straight lunge eats a good portion of sheik's moveset. not sure how much that's worth, but it is what it is.

anyway tourney macs, we could really use your expertise on the sheik matchup.
@Solreth @Alphicans @earla @Venks @sirchadakiss18 @Laitome (does espy or mvd still play mac?)

 

[ArikadoSD]

Nothing much to add outside of common knowledge but Little Mac's up B can break out of Fair strings iirc. It comes out frame 3. This made me conscious about using fair strings and not try to over-extend.

 

[CHOVI]

Nothing much to add outside of common knowledge but Little Mac's up B can break out of Fair strings iirc. It comes out frame 3. This made me conscious about using fair strings and not try to over-extend.

I didn't know that, that's great!

 

[ArikadoSD]

I didn't know that, that's great!

I wouldn't get my hopes up, the mu is still terrible for you guys unfortunately. =(

 

[inconspikuous]

I wouldn't get my hopes up, the mu is still terrible for you guys unfortunately. =(

not to mention, if mac guesses wrong and he whiffs...

 

[TakeYourHeart]

A couple of notes from my own experiences:

• Jolt Haymaker makes using needles at close range risky, as it's a little easier for Mac to land then the Sheik player might think, so unless you know for a fact that the Sheik has faster reflexes or better at reading, staying at that range makes Sheik's ability to strike somewhat awkward.
• Smashes and counter basically means Sheik can't go for aerials or dash attacks recklessly, grabs and tilts are their safest options, so while difficult, if you're able to space out said grabs and tilts with F/D-tilt, D-Smash and Jabs you can deliver some solid punishment.

Nothing much to add outside of common knowledge but Little Mac's up B can break out of Fair strings iirc. It comes out frame 3. This made me conscious about using fair strings and not try to over-extend.

• Personally I prefer Counter as it lacks much the risk of freefall and trading and allows for a Haymaker when falling toward the ground if the Sheik chooses not to over-extend.
• Missed/Superarmoured Smash attacks are bad times for Sheik all around, especially when they're fishing for a kill.

Basically while the margin for error is much lower on Mac's end, Sheik's approaches IMO are limited at mid/Jolt Haymaker range and close range isn't 100% ideal either, but since Sheik needs to get in order to do something significant, if you know when to let her make an attempt and when to strike at those ranges, Sheik can really struggle since all her kill options are just okay otherwise.

I could be missing something here, but that has generally been my experiences (that said I don't know this match up well).

 

[jet56]

ive found nair can be a safer way to break the string, it comes out faster (frame 2 i think) and doesn't waste your recovery move. as long as you don't get caught to far off-stage mac players have a decent chance. still in shieks favor though. i have noticed you can super armor through certain recovery moves, like bouncing fish or shieks up-b, but timing is strict on both, since bouncing will put you a safe distance away if you land it, and up-b is hard to hit in general.

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

I'm going to go ahead and close the shiek discussion now. I was going to give my own input on the matchup, but everything i was going to add has already been covered here. I'll start working on a summary of the info everyone posted, and get that added to the opening post here soon. At that time, I'll also add a link for the Shiek Discussion to the Matchup Discussion Thread.
If you have any suggestions on the next matchup we should cover, please post them in the Matchup Discussion Thread. I'll be starting the next discussion on either the evening of July 26th, or the morning of July 27th.