Match up Week 1: Rosalina

[FalKoopa]

Discuss vs

If you can, please do provide a matchup ratio as well.

 

[nyanturtwig]

I myself haven't had too much trouble in this match up. If my opponent is one that tends to send out Luma and not really do anything else, I find that tornado is a great move to rack up damage on (and k.o) Luma. From my experience Luigi is also pretty good at approaching Rosalina, as she's pretty tall and can easily be hit by Luigis aerials. Fireball has also been really good for approaching her, and if they use something like Down+B then it's a good opportunity to get a grab.

 

[Soupy]

I personally do not have much experience with this match, but it seems to rely heavily on approaching with 'nado since fireball is pretty much useless. Also, Rosa's aerials and off stage game are extremely annoying to deal with, just like any character that has a spike with a humongous hitbox.

 

[FalKoopa]

Copying from the thread...

Yonder said:
Tornado is great in this matchup, it goes right through Luma and tosses it aside, even killing it sometimes. I like to focus on killing Luma first, then attacking Rosalina after because she doesn't have much of a chance against Luigi without Luma, super easy to combo and D throw to Up B, D throw to tornado is nice too because she'll most likely be stalling up there. She can just run away though due to faster mobility so that's a bit of a problem. Fireball is more useful in the air than the ground/ With Luma in play, it's worthless on the ground.

One Tilt said:
Definitely ignore Rosalina whenever Luma's up if the game's in neutral-- our approach is limited enough without trying to rush through that kind of obstacle. Fireball actually fires quickly enough that it's rarely efficient for Rosalina to down B them all, and, if she's spamming that, she's not attacking, and you're still potentially chipping Luma with a few fireballs. The key seems to be in out-camping Rosalina, as the most Luma might do is fire off some star bits so long as you keep out of its attack ranges and don't walk into Luma shots. Once Luma's down, just keep in mind that you need to take advantage of the speed of your aerials, as that's the key advantage you have over Rosalina's powerful disjointed ones. Even if Luma's up, it offers very little advantage in the air compared to the ground. As a note, while Rosalina's recovery is very quick and it has some great range, it's still quite feasible to stage-spike her. Given her own very slow air speed, though, it's more difficult for her to gimp us with her predictable Dair or such-- though, I normally see Rosalina's edgeguarding instead of hopping offstage to intercept lower recoveries (though that Fair plus Luma shot/star bits is quite the threat horizontally, so be wary of recovering too high). That all said, the match seems to depend on staying out of middle range. At long range, fireball forces her closer, while our only midrange tool is pretty much tornado-- which is unsafe on shield. Up close, our grab and quick air moves give us an edge, but butterfeet makes it difficult to 'stay in' on the ground for long... It seems like a battle of attrition at times, but we have a bit of an advantage in KO power, given the slight difference in weight and our myriad options for earlier KOs. Though, it's pretty difficult to deal with Luma combos if she manages to play aggro enough without making too many unsafe moves... if you can disrupt her control of the game's pace, you'll stand a much better chance.

 

[TriTails]

Watching Boss vs Dabuz, I see Boss using the Nado a lot. This is our weakness, if she manages to shield it then we are done for.

A good Rosalina will make use of Luma well, either by keeping it in front of her and annoy pretty much everybody with a million times jab, and Luma's Gentleman sends you up, and being above Rosalina basically means death, or trap you between the duo, and that is not going to end well.

Luma's damage output is weak, but the knockback hits like a truck, which add another reason to take it out as kuch as possible. I assume U-smash and its invincible head can work well here?

Rosalina's aerials are powerful, disjointed, and has long range, but they aren't the fastest. Don't let her space her aerials, or else it's hell. She'll also kill us with U-air if we decide to recover high, and spike us with D-air if we use Missile. We better off snap to the ledge with SJP.

Luma meatshield Fireballs, but it won't last forever. My tip is to knock Luma away with Nado and maybe U-smash, and if you can, make sure you also hit Rosalina, because she can just B-throw you and call in her Luma again.

Once Luma is out, go ham. Just go ham. 12 seconds, make good use of them. To bruise Rosalina or even take her out.

Overall, she gimps and keeps us out rather nicely, disjointed U-air means no challenging it, and we can't really approach from the air because U-smash or U-tilt. Luigi can harrass her up close... but that's about it.

I'd say 60:40 Rosalina. Bleep the annoying Luma Mr. Sakurai decided to put. Without it, the MU can go in our favor... but there it is.

 

[Parcheesy]

Hi, overly aggressive Rosalina main here to give the other side of the matchup.

Fireballs in general aren't a great tool, only good when the Rosalina refuses to seize the opportunity to go in. Unless the fireball arcs over Luma, and is aimed at Rosalina's upper half, she can simply run in and punish with a dash attack or dash grab, letting the Luma soak the hit. I'd recommend a very footsie neutral, staying close enough that anything with more lag than a tilt could be punished, as that's the part of the matchup where Luigi has the definite edge.

Tornado is a decent punish option, but if the Rosalina is in a position to shield before being hit, the damage dealt to Luma often isn't worth the punish you'll take in return. It's fairly effective air-to-air against Rosalina, being somewhat difficult to out prioritize, even with Rosalina's massive hitboxes ( I'd say try it on a Rosa to Rosa basis and see if it works ). In kill percents, I believe it to be Luigi's ideal option from a throw. As a general rule, anything that will kill Rosa off the top is a better choice than getting her offstage.

Offstage is an absolute nightmare for Luigi. Any Rosalina that isn't going out to challenge him is making the matchup significantly harder for themselves. It doesn't even have to be a down air, as Luigi is dead offstage without his second jump. Rosalina counters the green missile fairly effectively with forward airs, and can follow him as low as needed with a long lasting neutral air. Can't speak for everyone, but I'd expect as the meta evolves, the Rosalina is going to have an increasingly high gimp rate once the Luigi is off the side.

From Luigi's viewpoint, the goal is to try and never let the Rosalina reset to neutral. Keep her up in the air, stay close, and capitalize any time she's missing her better half. Rosalina has a very good neutral game that weakens significantly whenever she's put under pressure.

I'd say it's somewhere moderately in Rosalina's advantage. Something like 60-40, or 65-35.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If it helps, the ratio average that I got when Rosalina was analyzing Luigi resulted in being 57:43, with 11 users making a ratio input.

Of course, Luigi's discussion period was 12/29/2014 - 1/4/2015 at the Rosalina sub-forum, so some things have probably changed with the match-up since then.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Everyone else pretty much summed it up but I'll say a few things. Besides Cyclone, DA is also good against Luma. DA and Cylone have about the same endlag so the time you use either one could be situational as well as risky.

I don't think Fireball is a bad option. Just don't spam uncontrollably. Even with Luma, I have never seen Rosalinas push through them and let Luma tank it. They usually Down B if they have space or shield. Not saying people don't push through but I personally never saw it. Also, Fireball can be good to rack up damage on Luma. If you have already put some damage up, a few Fireballs could finish the job shortly.

Yes edgeguarding is a nightmare for Luigi here. I would argue and say that Jumpless Cyclone is a necessity against top level Rosalinas. If you can't, your best bet is to recover directly under the ledge with a DJ->Up B. But vary your timings. Rosa gets one, maybe two, DAirs to catch you. If you get by it then the ledge is yours. The mix up would be to come at a hard angle with DJ->Cyclone.

Custom Rosalina makes this MU even harder for Luigi. Most Rosalinas will probably run default Up B, default down B (against Luigi), Shooting Star Bit, and Luma Warp. Shooting Star Bit (the Falco Laser as ppl call it) is quick and can threaten Luigi from mid and long range. It will severely limit your approach options. We can't play around in mid range because Rosalina can instantly warp Luma to our position and throw out a jab or Smash if we're not ready. That mixed with Shooting Start Bit gives Rosalina unbelievable stage control and haves us on the defensive for most of the match.

Luigi customs don't do much to change this MU, especially when she's using customs as well. Iceball might be better here. Iceball gives you a bit more freedom to approach because Rosalina has to think about what to about the slow moving Iceball while you're free to do whatever. The freezing properties aren't bad. They put Rosa into the air which lets you try to get an early kill with Rising Cylone. The only issue is that Luma follows her in the air if Luma is next to Rosa. Also, Luma itself can't be frozen (this would make Iceball sooooo good in this MU). Clothesline Cyclone can kill Luma at any time if the final hit connects but idk if it's worth losing the original. Down B 2 might be good to prevent edgeguards but again...idk if it's worth giving up the original. Custom Up Bs and Side Bs don't change anything.

The ability to have patience and really open your eyes for openings is what will determine a win here
45/55 - Rosalina (no customs)
40/60 - Rosalina (with customs)