Luigi's fireball

[usernamecloi]

how to use them properly. it has a ton of lag when shflled

 

[Scarlet Bean]

Lag on the fireball stays the same regardless. Anyways, people mostly use luigi's fireball to Vududash and while recovering towards the stage(watch some of Abate's latest matches), it can also be used to force a jigglypuff to zone off and possibly mess up their spacing. You shouldn't use the fireball in the neutral game

 

[usernamecloi]

thanks was worried that im not using fireballs that much. gon' practivce this Vududash now

 

[-ACE-]

Be familiar with the lag and the options of your opponent's character. There are lots of times where you can cover one of your opponent's options without leaving yourself open... very situational but it is probably most notable during recovery.

 

[Hulka]

Fireballs aren't the most useful projectiles, but can be used as something that people won't expect. If they're a character without projectiles, I like to jump backward an throw a fireball at them if were in neutral (though this doesn't happen often). If I feel like it's going to hit, I wavedash forward into down smash or grab. I also use it if I'm comboeing. If I'm in mid combo and they're far away in the air and coming down, I'll throw one out, though it usually doesn't hit. If it does, I'll throw out a fair while they're in hit stun. Fireballs can also be used as an edge guarding tool. Ka master uses it a lot for edge guarding in his latest videos, so you should watch those. One more thing you can use it for is if you're on the ledge, you can press down, then jump, and throw out a fire ball and re grab the ledge. I don't recommend using this a lot, but it's good for mix ups if you're having a lot of trouble getting back on stage.

 

[Scarlet Bean]

Fireballs aren't the most useful projectiles, but can be used as something that people won't expect. If they're a character without projectiles, I like to jump backward an throw a fireball at them if were in neutral (though this doesn't happen often). If I feel like it's going to hit, I wavedash forward into down smash or grab. I also use it if I'm comboeing. If I'm in mid combo and they're far away in the air and coming down, I'll throw one out, though it usually doesn't hit. If it does, I'll throw out a fair while they're in hit stun. Fireballs can also be used as an edge guarding tool. Ka master uses it a lot for edge guarding in his latest videos, so you should watch those. One more thing you can use it for is if you're on the ledge, you can press down, then jump, and throw out a fire ball and re grab the ledge. I don't recommend using this a lot, but it's good for mix ups if you're having a lot of trouble getting back on stage.

I use that fireball-in-the-neutral-game technique as a gimp against new players. I go for a fireball from a safe distance, I expect a shield from them and go for a really long wavedash and grab

 

[Verda Stelo]

Luigi's fireball can be a very useful tool if you're smart and safe about it. Hulka has already mentioned how a fireball in neutral can force a shield, but consider what your opponent shielding in neutral means to Luigi, the character with the best burst movement in the game, beyond the wavedash grab.

In neutral I like to think of the fireball as a hadoken. Street Fighter players have been using projectiles with similar properties to the fireball (slow, linear path) and therefore advancing that metagame for years, longer than Melee has even been around. A hadoken forces your opponent to either take the hit or guard it. (edit: You can also jump over a hadoken, which is a strong part of the mixup/read/conditioning game in SF, but less restrictive and much more difficult for Luigi in particular to challenge in Melee.) Remember, taking the fireball isn't that bad; it does low damage with low hitstun, making the crouch cancel an effective guard against it in almost all situations. The more natural response, however, is to shield the fireball. Now you've forced a limited number of options on your opponent, and more importantly, given yourself the opportunity to begin conditioning your opponent. Wavedash grab is an excellent punish on shield, and a good player will do their best to avoid it if they see it coming again. What options do they have to avoid that grab? Jump out of shield, wavedash, roll, spot dodge, up smash, or up B. Take note of all of these options on a per character (Samus will up B OOS way more often than Puff for example), per player ("This guy thinks rolling is safe, what a scrublord." -You), and per match (if you punished up smashes OOS well last game your opponent is less likely to try it more) basis. I can't tell you what your opponents will do out of shield or how you can influence their decisions out of shield--those are your mindgames. Use them well.

The unfortunate part is that unlike a hadoken, Luigi's fireball has extremely punishable endlag. This ultimately renders the fireball in neutral much worse versus fast characters like Fox, Falco, or Marth. Use at your own risk. These mindgames can be played much more effectively in floaty or defensive matchups like Puff, Peach, or Sheik. Awareness of your opponent's options and effective conditioning are useful tools in every matchup, and you can practice those skills very easily in these slower matchups that allow you to repeat a situation multiple times.

 

[BluEG]

Jab reset Fireball -> Up-B.

 

[Scarlet Bean]

Luigi's fireball can be a very useful tool if you're smart and safe about it. Hulka mentioned how a fireball in neutral can force a shield, but consider what your opponent shielding in neutral means to Luigi, the character with the best burst movement in the game, beyond the wavedash grab.

In neutral I like to think of the fireball as a hadouken. Street Fighter players have been using projectiles with similar properties to the fireball (slow, linear path) and therefore advancing that metagame for years, longer than Melee has even been around. A hadouken forces your opponent to either take the hit or guard it. Remember, in Melee, taking the fireball isn't always that bad; it does low damage with low hitstun, making the crouch cancel an effective guard against it almost all situations. The most natural response, however, is to shield the fireball. Now you've forced a limited number of options on your opponent, and more importantly, given yourself the opportunity to begin conditioning your opponent. Wavedash grab is an excellent punish on their shield, and a good player will do their best to avoid it next time they see it coming again. What options do they have to avoid that grab? Jump out of shield, wavedash, roll, spot dodge, up smash, or up B. Take note of all of these options on a per character (Samus will up B OOS way more often than Puff for example), per player ("This guy thinks rolling is safe, what a scrublord." -You), and per match (if you punished up smashes OOS well last game your opponent is less likely to try it more) basis. I can't tell you what your opponents will do out of shield or how you can influence their decisions out of shield--those are your mindgames. Use them well.

The unfortunate part is that unlike a hadouken, Luigi's fireball has extremely punishable endlag. This ultimately renders the fireball in neutral much worse versus fast characters like Fox, Falco, or Marth. Use at your own risk. These mindgames can be played much more effectively in floaty or defensive matchups like Puff, Peach, or Sheik. Awareness of your opponent's options and effective conditioning are useful tools in every matchup, and you can practice those skills very easily in these slower matchups that allow you to repeat a situation multiple times.

Cmon man when are you going to post a video of your Luigi, I'm dying to see it ;_;

 

[Verda Stelo]

Jab reset Fireball -> Up-B.

I've been trying to find a safe setup for the fireball reset for so long. It's not even better than a jab reset basically ever but it's SO stylish I just have to have the tools. Have you discovered any?

Bean, videos my Luigi do exist but 1) I want to use them for the good of the boards and provide proper analysis with them somehow. I'm currently limited to my phone so I can't really do that. 2) I'm a pretty bad player so I also want to make sure that I have a video with at least some good stuff to post. Sorry.

 

[BluEG]

I've been trying to find a safe setup for the fireball reset for so long. It's not even better than a jab reset basically ever but it's SO stylish I just have to have the tools. Have you discovered any?

Yesss so stylish. All da fire.
You pretty much have to predict a missed tech and preemptively shoot the fireball so its not reliable haha. Although using it to jab reset on platforms is a bit easier to time.

Also, I have a dream to Vududash from one lower platform to the bottom of the other, Hit an opponent with the fireball, immediately jump -> Waveland on platform -> Up-B.

I almost pulled it off once. it will happen one day.

 

[Verda Stelo]

So I was trying more stuff last night for fireball resets. The trick is finding difficult techs to hit or even tech traps (the only one that I've ever found was something like weak nair -> dtilt but it only worked at some crazy specific percentage). The best potential reliable fireball reset situation I could find was uthrow -> uair so that that land on a platform. Certainly a doable tech but also easy enough to miss that throwing out the fireball could be a good idea.

Yooooo ftilt -> vududash fireball reset -> SJP. It could totally happen man.