Luigi Stage Discussion. Currently discussing Smashville

[Underhill]

Hello, Luigi players and welcome.

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Here, you can discuss about what Luigi can do on stages so we'll know what stages benefits him. The reasons that I have this thread made is because not only could help Luigi players, mains, newcomers, competitive players, veterans, but also, we can learn more about Luigi and his full potential. This could help us go in depth and I mean, depth like knowing tech, combos, and other set ups. I know thers's a stage discussion for Luigi already out there, but with the patches put in play and to me, its outdated so we need to know how deep the rabbit hole goes with Luigi. Depth and deeper with good amount of information for the man in green.

What I want you guys to do on here is to put all of the data and info that you have for Luigi. That means strategies, pros and cons depending on the MU, tech, blastzones for the green plumber, pros and cons for Luigi's performance in stages, and set-ups for him to use on stages. Bring the information to your fullest if you can. Tournament results as well so we'll know what stages to either pick, ban, or go to as our favorites, depending on what characters or players that we're facing.

Stages:​

Battlefield

Luigi's performance on this stage: Luigi can use the platforms to poke his opponents above him with aerials and fireballs for combos, pressure, giving them trouble to land to the ground, and even jiggling. Luigi can land on platforms to land safely when he gets launched vertical or jiggled by characters like Rosalina, ZZS, and Captain Falcon. This way, he can use them to cover his horrible air speed and floatiness, avoid jiggles, and try to get to the ground, safely. Luigi's get-up attack from the ledge can stage spike your opponent, but only if they're below you and this is mostly a surprise attack. The stage is small so this can help you be aggressive and rushdown your foes, better. The high vertical blastzones can help Luigi live longer, but his vertical kills will ko later so you won't be get early kills that easily. Tall characters like Rosalina and ZZS can still give Luigi a hard time landing, even with platforms because of his horrible air speed and being floaty, and they can use the platforms to not only their up-airs for jiggling, but can also use them tall height and range to pressure him and give him trouble landing to the ground with moves such as up-smash, SH aerials, Rosalina's up-tile, Luma, and Zero suit Samus's projectile. While the stage's blastzones like under neat can help Luigi recover low, use the tornado gimp without jump to edgeguard characters like ,, , and , characters with good edgeguarding like , ,,,, , and if they read his recovery options like green missile can make it difficult for Luigi to get back on stage and can even get a kill if he uses up his second jump. Platform tech can save your opponent from getting combed so be on the lookout for that.
Results: Battlefield is a good for Luigi since he can do all of the things with platforms and the stage with small space such as combos, set-ups, pressure, tech, landing safer, rushdown even more, and can do well against characters like ,,,, and . While can pull off combos with platforms, punish tech if he reads it, gimp Luigi's recovery, use the small space to approach Luigi, and use SH aerials under platforms like up-air to pressure and give Luigi trouble; Luigi can do the same as well so its even in my opinion between these two. Even in my opinion against who is still a horrible MU for Luigi, but even at best because at least he can use the platforms to avoid being camped, land safely, live longer since she has trouble killing, and use the space to rush her down, but she can also use the platforms to set up combos, exploit his landing options under the platforms with up-airs and SH aerials, and exploit his recovery as well. Characters that he'll struggle against on this stage are for example; ,,, and because they can jiggle him even more, pressure him under platforms, set-up combos of their own, give him trouble landing, and exploit his recovery more off-stage due to the large blastzones.
Tech: fireballs or b-reverse can knock opponents off the platform where they can't tech which means that you can do whatever you want to them after that, including Up-b.​

Match-ups for Luigi:

• +3 =
• +2 =,
• +1 =,
• ±0 =,,,
• -1 =,
• -2 = ,,
• -3 =

Final Destination

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Town & CIty

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Smashville

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Lylat Cruise

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Halberb

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Castle Siege

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Duck Hunt

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Omega Stages

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Score for advantage and disadvantage:

• +3 = large advantage
• +2 = moderate advantage
• +1 = small advantage
• ±0 = even
• -1 = small disadvantage
• -2 = moderate disadvantage
• -3 = large disadvantage

The reason that the score is there because these are the pros and cons of Luigi on stages, depending on what characters that he face. Once the weeks are up, I will put the characters from your post with information onto the score on the stage list up top.

Rules:

1. We are only discussing one stage at a time so please don't talk about more than one stage. Unless for example; If we're talking about Dreamland and you want to mention something similar to Battlefield like platforms, then its ok as you're talking about Dreamland.
   
2. The rules are the same as like you are in the Luigi match-up discussion so no double post, spamming, trolling, fighting, and stay civil and respectful.
3. We are not using radtos so use the score instead or say small advantage or large advantage.
   
4. Don't just put the score there; Explain why does Luigi either fight well against that character on the stage or does bad on it in against that figther. Otherwise, I won't take your socre if you don't have any no evidence or info.
   
5. Like in rule 1, but similar; If we're discussing about a stage like Town & City, then only post data on that stage and don't discuss about anything else.
6. Please respect people's opinions and don't be a jerk to them.
7. You can add videos on here for explanation, but only as references.
   
8. If you see anyone disobeying, report that person to the moderators and they'll take care of it.

I like to have a peaceful thread and I want to keep it that way so don't break any of these rules and we won't have any problems. So, enjoy your stay and bring out all of the information you can as possible. Have fun.

Edit: This is a open discussion. I still have the data for Battlefield up top if you need it.

 

[miniada]

You putbattlefield twice edit: you put battlefield and the matchup scores in different spoilers.

 

[Underhill]

Ok, I don't know what's up with the battlefield spoilers and my d*** internet has been giving me problems. Don't worry about the spoilers list for the stages; That's just for me to put the results for the stages when two weeks are up from all of the data and information, but I'll try to fix it tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Wtfwasthat]

Battlefield is not a bad stage for luigi at all, I wouldnt counterpick it as there are better options imo (Town and city). Having players above you on the platforms is great because you can keep poking at them with aerials and force them to react. Platforms can also net you earlier kills if you happen to pull off a grab on one of them which is very situational. Platforms also are useful for falling off and B-reversing fireballs for mixups.

Some cons of battlefield are large blastzones (which can make it harder for you to get a kill), jank edges where we can get gimped, and platforms can sometimes interrupt our combos if the opponent knows how to tech well

Overall, decent stage for luigi, as the negatives dont really hinder him to the point that you have to ban this stage when the opponent is counter-picking.

 

[miniada]

Pretty good stage for luigi imo. Due to the top platform his kill options and dthrow to down b become easy to use. Granted he needs to be at the top platform to kill in general. His combo are decent here. I have found Dthrow to multiple fairs and other combos easy but due to the platforms others won't work. However luigi gets gimped easy. In terms of mus come to mind since due to platforms we can combo them decently with fair. Can gimp them due to the edges. And kill them easier due to the top platform. However can exploit our cons.

 

[Underhill]

Pretty good stage for luigi imo. Due to the top platform his kill options and dthrow to down b become easy to use. Granted he needs to be at the top platform to kill in general. His combo are decent here. I have found Dthrow to multiple fairs and other combos easy but due to the platforms others won't work. However luigi gets gimped easy. In terms of mus come to mind since due to platforms we can combo them decently with fair. Can gimp them due to the edges. And kill them easier due to the top platform. However can exploit our cons.

Ok. What are the cons that Rosalina and Sheik can exploit on Luigi?

 

[miniada]

Ok. What are the cons that Rosalina and Sheik can exploit on Luigi?

They can gimp him and and the fact he has to kill them on the top platform.

 

[Süberr]

I like Battlefield because of the platforms you can do things like this:

Mind you this is the previous patch (1.1.0) but I tested it yesterday and it still works but only at a certain % range because of how down throw works in the new patch. That being said if any time in the match you can anticipate someone about to roll after falling on a platform you can still do it.

 

[FEFIZ]

We can't down throw to down b or Nair to kill, so, we need now AVOID stages like Haldberd and other stages like town and city with low celing??? The stage list to Luigi change now?!

 

[Underhill]

We can't down throw to down b or Nair to kill, so, we need now AVOID stages like Haldberd and other stages like town and city with low celing??? The stage list to Luigi change now?!

Did you even read the rules or the title? This is a stage discussion, not a social one. Plus, we're talking about Battlefield.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Though we may be talking about Battlefield, I am going to go ahead and say Smashville is probably Luigi's best stage now.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

Did you even read the rules or the title? This is a stage discussion, not a social one. Plus, we're talking about Battlefield.

Don't be mad this guy is a bandwagon Luigi and Yonder needs to come in and ban him.

 

[Underhill]

Don't be mad this guy is a bandwagon Luigi and Yonder needs to come in and ban him.

I'm not mad XD. But I'm just like. I just want a peacful thread so if he does it again, then I'll report him. Plus, I didn't know about bandwagons, but I don't have time to look for them or care, too.

 

[DJ Delta]

I would have to say the biggest the con of battlefield is the fact that it has one of the highest ceilings, so things like cylcone and up b won't kill till later if your on the main stage. Also one of the sides, I forgot which, has ceiling so recovering can be difficult if you get stuck. Most Luigi's up b, using the side as ramp, so they don't go straight up, which would make it easier to get hit offstage.

As for pros, the platforms make it easier to land. This is especially helpful with a character who wants to juggle Luigi like Rosalina or megaman. Also Luigi's new down throw has good mixups combined with platforms. You can get them air dodge at mid high percents, being afraid of bair or cyclone and then they air dodge right to one of the side platforms, then out can punish the landing lag with a smash attack or up b. You can also camp in the middle of the stage, using fireballs if they approach from the ground and a fair if they try to down through the platforms. Basically it gives you nice fort. Any character can do this, but if you can get in this position, you can force them to approach, something people never want to do against Luigi.

Overall I saw this stage is good if you don't mind being defensive and staying patients, mainly just because the large blast lines killing may take a while. Though it gives us good landing options, and ways to pressure the opponent. At the same time the opponent can also use the platforms to out maneuver Luigi due to his poor mobility. I say small advantage-moderate advantage, though a lot depends on which character you face.

 

[grandi]

Refer to this thread for blast zone data: http://smashboards.com/threads/wii-u-stage-blast-zone-data.395357/
Battlefield has the highest ceiling among competitive stages, other than the second transformation of Castle Seige (if it's legal in your scene). It also has the widest blast zones, both from the ledge and from stage center.

Tournament results pre-patch should be taken with a grain of salt, considering the nerfs to Luigi's ability to setup kills from grabs.

I see a lot of responses are listing specifically the Battlefield high ceiling as a con, but I don't think we should be focusing on the ceiling so much. We can't setup guaranteed combos into nair or tornado for kills anymore. After the patch I think we'll find a larger percent of our kills coming from the side blast zones using fsmash, bair, and b-throw. Regardless, Luigi will have trouble killing now until we can find some more kill setups. With Battlefield's large blastzones, this is a con.

The most important thing for Luigi is to have platforms. There are two main benefits to this 1) it helps Luigi land, since his poor aerial mobility otherwise is easy to punish - this includes jumping from the ledge because we can land on the platform to enter shield quicker 2) it helps Luigi get tech chases and combos off of platforms, potentially into kills with up-b or bair. Also, I find that having a platform above your head makes it safer to throw out a fireball. Opponents seem less likely to jump over me and punish the end lag.

As Süberr mentioned, fireball can push opponents off of platforms. This is un-techable and leads to a guaranteed up-b. Since the ledges on this stage bend inwards, underneath the stage, use a tornado edge guard to drag opponents under the stage. It will be a little harder for them to recover (be ready to tech though!). This also hurts Ness and Lucas, since after they bounce off of the stage with PKT2 when they miss the ledge, the next PKT will hit the stage immediately and they go into free fall. Another "janky" pro to this stage, is Luigi's getup attack from the ledge can stage spike people on Battlefield. It's not something to rely on, but it's something to consider - I've had this happen for me in tournament against skilled players.

This stage is a good option against characters with strong uairs or kill combos off the top- notably DK, Meta Knight, R.O.B., Rosalina & Luma, Sheik, and ZSS. The platforms help Luigi land against these moves, and the high ceiling allows him to survive longer in case Luigi gets hit. The downside here is that the opponents can get early kills from the top platform. Be aware of combos which set this up, and DI away.

In my opinion, this is a +1. The stage is a good choice, but other stages with platforms and smaller blast zones are better.

 

[YerroBryBry]

Personally, I believe that this stage is probably one of the advantageous stages for luigi. In the recent patch they have gotten rid of down throw kill confirms meaning that you're going to be focusing on ledge reads, as well as finding openings in the neutral.

Luigi has always been the character that can really rack up a lot of damage within combos. Bringing your opponent to 120% shouldn't take too long, considering that d-throw to up-air does 17%, jab does 10% and fireballs does 5-6%.

This map is definitely stronger when facing other characters that struggles to kill. Sheik is the best example here, where sheik would have to add an extra 20-30% to secure an up-air kill. And even then, by that stage you might be able to DI away, giving yourself a few frames extra reaction time so you can determine whether sheik wants to use up-b or up-air. I find that this stage would also be beneficial for the luigi players that has an aggressive play style. This is because the three platforms virtually makes the stage smaller, allowing you to rush down your opponents better.

I'd say that Luigi does suffer from this map of the opponent has good horizontal kills though. You'd best want to avoid playing battlefield if you're up against a captain falcon or such. This is because knees and F-smash is usually what a falcon aims to land to kill, both applies horizontal knock back. In contrast, I actually belief that Luigi would suffer if the opponent can vertically juggle as well. Mario, ZSS and Captain Falcon can capitalise their Up-Air string on this stage because of the three platforms.

Overall, I believe that if you were to be playing on this stage as Luigi, you would need to be focusing primarily on dealing the damage, which shouldn't be too hard considering that his combo game is pretty much identical. This stage can be momentum based though, because there is little space. This risk is definitely worth if the opponent has limited killing options. Choose this stage if your knowledge on neutral, edge guarding and get-up reads are top notch.

( G grandi I just read your post on this thread and I noticed that what I said is somewhat similar at the end... Sorry!)

 

[YerroBryBry]

In terms of MU on this stage here's my insight on who would benefit/burden from this stage against Luigi (for now I'll only be doing the trending characters):
+3:
+2:
+1:
0:
-1:
-2:
-3:

 

[PenguinFluff]

I think this stage is alright for weegee, especially post patch. Aside from the fireball lock into Up-B, if you happen to get a grab on a platform around 50-70, you can KO using cyclone w/ rage. The only problems I can see though is that the high ceiling hurts his killing ability. Usmash won't kill till later, and if you get an up-B read/punish, the kill is iffy at certain percents.

 

[Underhill]

Only a few more days, left. Then Final Destination is next on 10/13/15.

@ YerroBryBry , don't double post, next time. Plus, could you also explain explain for the other characters that Luigi has against in terms of advantages and disadvantages in Battlefield on your second.

 

[YerroBryBry]

+2 = Fox, Sheik - The reason why sheik would be there is because she has a harder time taking the stock in comparison to other characters. Luigi can take advantage of the platforms, avoiding needles by simply being there. Plus, BF makes the stage feel small so luigi can rush down sheik better, adding that damage percentage. Both fox and sheik are light characters, and luigi would be able to take earlier kills because of that. Please note that sheik still dominates this match up, but the stage makes it slightly easier to bear with. Furthermore, foxs kills are primarily vertical, bair being the exception.

+1= Diddy Kong, Pikachu and Shulk - similar to above, except that unlike the above, these three characters have better kill options. Diddy Kongs recovery is reduced quite a bit because his side B can land into platform, and so it is easier to punish than popgun b reverse cancel. Shulk has bad frame data, and his move sets requires several frames before it becomes active. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, rush him down! With pikachu I think I'm going to change my mind and place him at -1 advantage, simply because I overlooked the situation, forgetting pikachus ledge cancel up b, and other horizontal kills.

+0 = Luigi, Pit and Ness - Luigi pretty much explains itself. With Ness, a majority of his moves kill diagonally and horizontally. Ness can edge guard pretty well with nair and fair, but due to the fact that BFs offstage is relatively big, it means Luigi can recover very low. Both characters aim to win neutral and capitalise on punishes, and gameplay is relatively even for these two characters this stage. As for pit, the luigi has to watch out for up smashes when on platforms. This has always caught me off guard in the past, so landing is an issue in this stage. However, it is made up by how much we can combo, considering pit doesn't have a frame 3 nair that punishes strings.

-1= Yoshi and Mario - Yoshis eggs make it relatively hard to land back on stage, meaning you can't even land on platforms else you will be punished. Up smash also goes through platform, and the small stage allows yoshi to land his command grab easier. This stage also slightly supports Mario because the platform allows Mario to extend his strings of up airs. F smash is an excellent kill option for Mario because it kills diagonally and punishes bad spacing very well. Luigi doesn't really have a distinct advantage in this stage, but it basically forces the luigi to focus harder in securing punishes and stocks.

-2 = C.Falcon, RosaLuma and ZSS - the small stage feature actually favours RosaLuma this time around. This is because the luigi won't be able to move around as freely, because RosaLumas moveset takes a lot of space. It is easy for luigi to fall into the platforms; this area is bad for luigi because RosaLuma can exert much shield pressure from up tilt, up smash and aerials such as nair. Both captain falcon and ZSS excels against luigi in this map simply because of up air strings. However, the reason why I place these two at a greater disadvantage than Mario is because it is slightly easier for these two characters to bait and punish. An airdodge means a knee to captain falcon, and poor spacing results at 50% results to death for ZSS.

-3 = Villager - LIKE THIS MATCHUP WASNT HARD ALREADY. Platforms allows villager to pull off so many tricks out of his pocket, such as bowling ball, plant pots and trees even. Very hard for luigi to land because villager can hit hard with turnips. Villager doesn't need to really on vertical kills; he has bowling ball, trees, slingshots and even nair to edge guard. Luigi has very limited options and the fact that his mobility will be restricted further in this map seals the deal.

Hope these reasons make sense! (P.S sorry Underhill , I won't double post in the future for you)

 

[Underhill]

+2 = Fox, Sheik - The reason why sheik would be there is because she has a harder time taking the stock in comparison to other characters. Luigi can take advantage of the platforms, avoiding needles by simply being there. Plus, BF makes the stage feel small so luigi can rush down sheik better, adding that damage percentage. Both fox and sheik are light characters, and luigi would be able to take earlier kills because of that. Please note that sheik still dominates this match up, but the stage makes it slightly easier to bear with. Furthermore, foxs kills are primarily vertical, bair being the exception.

+1= Diddy Kong, Pikachu and Shulk - similar to above, except that unlike the above, these three characters have better kill options. Diddy Kongs recovery is reduced quite a bit because his side B can land into platform, and so it is easier to punish than popgun b reverse cancel. Shulk has bad frame data, and his move sets requires several frames before it becomes active. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, rush him down! With pikachu I think I'm going to change my mind and place him at -1 advantage, simply because I overlooked the situation, forgetting pikachus ledge cancel up b, and other horizontal kills.

+0 = Luigi, Pit and Ness - Luigi pretty much explains itself. With Ness, a majority of his moves kill diagonally and horizontally. Ness can edge guard pretty well with nair and fair, but due to the fact that BFs offstage is relatively big, it means Luigi can recover very low. Both characters aim to win neutral and capitalise on punishes, and gameplay is relatively even for these two characters this stage. As for pit, the luigi has to watch out for up smashes when on platforms. This has always caught me off guard in the past, so landing is an issue in this stage. However, it is made up by how much we can combo, considering pit doesn't have a frame 3 nair that punishes strings.

-1= Yoshi and Mario - Yoshis eggs make it relatively hard to land back on stage, meaning you can't even land on platforms else you will be punished. Up smash also goes through platform, and the small stage allows yoshi to land his command grab easier. This stage also slightly supports Mario because the platform allows Mario to extend his strings of up airs. F smash is an excellent kill option for Mario because it kills diagonally and punishes bad spacing very well. Luigi doesn't really have a distinct advantage in this stage, but it basically forces the luigi to focus harder in securing punishes and stocks.

-2 = C.Falcon, RosaLuma and ZSS - the small stage feature actually favours RosaLuma this time around. This is because the luigi won't be able to move around as freely, because RosaLumas moveset takes a lot of space. It is easy for luigi to fall into the platforms; this area is bad for luigi because RosaLuma can exert much shield pressure from up tilt, up smash and aerials such as nair. Both captain falcon and ZSS excels against luigi in this map simply because of up air strings. However, the reason why I place these two at a greater disadvantage than Mario is because it is slightly easier for these two characters to bait and punish. An airdodge means a knee to captain falcon, and poor spacing results at 50% results to death for ZSS.

-3 = Villager - LIKE THIS MATCHUP WASNT HARD ALREADY. Platforms allows villager to pull off so many tricks out of his pocket, such as bowling ball, plant pots and trees even. Very hard for luigi to land because villager can hit hard with turnips. Villager doesn't need to really on vertical kills; he has bowling ball, trees, slingshots and even nair to edge guard. Luigi has very limited options and the fact that his mobility will be restricted further in this map seals the deal.

Hope these reasons make sense! (P.S sorry Underhill , I won't double post in the future for you)

Its cool; Just edit on your post, next time.

Alright, thank you. This data will come in handy, so thanks.

 

[Underhill]

Its cool; Just edit on your post, next time.

Alright, thank you. This data will come in handy, so thanks.

All right, people. Discussion for Battlefield is over. We're moving to this stage, below. Just give me a chance to put all of the data in for Battlefield and "BOOM", its done. Shame that I can't use the data on patch 10 anymore because of the down-throw nerf.

FD is due on 10/27/15.
Well, we got one more day left and since I haven't got any data for Luigi on this day, I may as well either rediscuss it later on or just give more days for you, players to discuss it.