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Luigi Chain Grabs (and other grab tips)??

jdmelody

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
149
Location
Current: Kobe, Japan Hometown: Maryland
HI EVERYBODY! (hi dr. nick)

So I decided for some reason to start playing Luigi 2 months ago and before that I never knew how to do anything with him. I'm okay at the game, but I'm not great by any means, so I figured...if I'm gonna lose, I'd rather lose by playing this super fun character. And if I win, it makes winning that much more fun.

There are many many Luigi questions that I have, and some things that I have discovered on my own or wonder about...but for now, I'd just be happy if someone could give me a recent list of the characters that Luigi can chaingrab.

I sometimes here that Luigi can chaingrab fox, but it's really hard. I watched the Ka-Master video of him doing it, but that was '06 and I wonder if it's even possible anymore.

So to sum that up:

I would just like to know a list of characters Luigi can chaingrab.


Any other info related to grabbing that you think are useful I'd appreciate as well! Thank you!
 
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Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
680
Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
http://smashboards.com/threads/wip-chaingrab-data.384003/

Most of the data in the main post of that thread is practically useless, incomplete, and formatted badly, but the quote at the top contains practical information on chaingrabbing, as does Yann J.Ridin's post at the bottom.

You have a guaranteed (as far as I know) up throw chaingrab into up smash on Fox and Falco (in pretty much the same way for both characters), and the up smash gets you a combo if the opponent doesn't DI away. It's possible to do consistently, though a bit awkward to learn compared to other chaingrabs such a Fox or Marth's because the throw sends behind rather than upwards or in front, and because covering the DI behind is somewhat frame-tight. At higher damages, you can chaingrab with wavedash grabs, but I haven't really explored that so I don't know how guaranteed or effective it is; I'm also pretty sure there's a dead zone between where dash chaingrab stops working and wavedash chaingrab starts working (or at least it's prohibitively difficult in that zone).

I don't know the specifics, but quite a few of the mid-weight characters (Sheik being one of them) can be regrabbed off down throw at low damages on certain DIs (in some cases it's DI away only, in others it's any DI but DI away); but it's not particularly useful because it's specific to DI and the damage range is very small. You'd probably want to go for up smash or down smash in those circumstances (or not have opted for the down throw in the first place), since you won't be given the opportunity to continue the chaingrab once the opponent DIs differently or takes very much more damage.
 
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jdmelody

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
149
Location
Current: Kobe, Japan Hometown: Maryland
Thanks Stride. I barely post, but when I do, even if it's in a different character forum you answer me lol. Thank you.

I've seen the U-throw U-smash used by a few Luigis, however, when I've experimented/practiced on 20XX, the Fox CPU has a DI even at 0% that Fox (not sure about Falco) can do to avoid the the U-smash. I don't think it's my timing. Also, I think a pivot U-smash might be required sometimes, not sure.

Cool thing I found out with the U-throw U-smash combo is that if the Fox doesn't tech the Up-smash he will land in front or behind you for an easy jab reset, which if its a standing jab reset (usually is) you can Up-B. You could of course regrab or do whatever you wanted, but it's a guaranteed 52% assuming the former.

I've never seen any Luigi do this, probably because of the slight risk/possibility to continue the combo further, but with Luigi comboing is somewhat rare it seems because of his moves having such huge knockback.

I guess I should've been more specific as chaingrabbing has come to have a wider meaning since I first learned the word. But I was referring to true chaingrabbing, where the opponent has no way of getting out (Ganon --> Sheik, Pichi --> Falcon, etc.)
 

Yann J.Ridin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
100
Location
Switzerland, La Suisse, Pays de Neuchâtel
Hello, I made some view post about the chaingrabs on spacies. Fox Pal is lighter (1 unity below) so easier normally

In sum:

Against Fox (PAL):
-Just JC grab, react to DI until. 40%.
-40% to 55% is hard. So try to have fox into your arms at 47% (that s the perfect %, Btw 48% is probably better than 46%). So throw him just around 36%-40% and give him a pummel if need to reach 47%. If you have a good masher player, you can't give two pummel in a row. So listen to the controller's oppenent to know if he s a Crazy Masher.
-If you have fox in a bad % (like 50% to 55%). Go for the Upthrow to Uptilt to regrab. Ofc it s only to cover the DI behind Luigi, if not you can just grab.
- After 55% you can begin to WD grab instead of JC grab. You can Chaingrab with WD until 110% if they always Di behind Luigi: here below the tips to cover DI in front Luigi or No Di:

-At 68%, you can UpB if Fox DI in front of Luigi. If not continue to chaingrab. After this ~%, you can't regrab oppenent if they DI in front of Luigi.
-At 78%, you can WD to UpB if Fox Di behind Luigi. That s a important spot to ****ed people who always DI behind luigi.
- Around 85% you can try Uptilt to UpB in the air to the kill. Or FH upair (If they Survival DI) to UpB in the air
- Around 90% you can try UpAir to trap their Survival Di and go for the strong Nair who kills.
- After 100%. Can go directly for the UpB in the air if they Di front of Luigi or WD Fsmash if they Di behind.

-Tricks to ****ed people who knows that DI in front of Luigi is good after ~75%: Go for the Downthrow and you can convert into a turnaround UpB.


Against Falco (It s a post on a other thread):

On Falco, I didn't do so precise % research. But you can definetly standard chaingrab 0 to 45%. Then to passe the difficult part (between 45 to 55%), i do a WD to uptilt to regrab, Thats not guaranted but give a tech case in the worst case. You can again WD to grab after 55%. 77% is the best to UpB if BadDi. WD to UpB on Falco is way harder than PAL fox, i dont do it but certainly possible.

- At 90%, Upthow to Uptilt to UpB in the air is rellay easier than Fox PAL. You can try this

Its basically the same.
 
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Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
680
Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
Thanks Stride. I barely post, but when I do, even if it's in a different character forum you answer me lol. Thank you.

I've seen the U-throw U-smash used by a few Luigis, however, when I've experimented/practiced on 20XX, the Fox CPU has a DI even at 0% that Fox (not sure about Falco) can do to avoid the the U-smash. I don't think it's my timing. Also, I think a pivot U-smash might be required sometimes, not sure.

Cool thing I found out with the U-throw U-smash combo is that if the Fox doesn't tech the Up-smash he will land in front or behind you for an easy jab reset, which if its a standing jab reset (usually is) you can Up-B. You could of course regrab or do whatever you wanted, but it's a guaranteed 52% assuming the former.

I've never seen any Luigi do this, probably because of the slight risk/possibility to continue the combo further, but with Luigi comboing is somewhat rare it seems because of his moves having such huge knockback.

I guess I should've been more specific as chaingrabbing has come to have a wider meaning since I first learned the word. But I was referring to true chaingrabbing, where the opponent has no way of getting out (Ganon --> Sheik, Pichi --> Falcon, etc.)
Also, would PAL make a difference for all of this stuff in these situations? I don't/probably won't ever play on PAL.
You're welcome. I suppose that's what happens when I have like different 10 boards on watch.

To my knowledge, PAL and NTSC are basically the same as far as these chaingrabs are concerned; there'll be a 1 frame longer window or like a 2% higher damage threshold for some things but nothing big (nothing like how Marth can't regrab PAL Fox on DI behind at 0%). The basic plan is the same.

Up throw up smash doesn't work on DI away at low damages because the opponent hits the ground from the throw too early for you to dash and jump cancel up smash. Pivot up smash isn't strictly necessary (you can just dash back and jump cancel up smash quickly, or just stand still and up smash), but because at low damages you don't have much time to cover DI away with a dash jump cancel up smash, you might want to be dashing per-emptively and then adjusting if they don't DI away (it depends on your reaction time). If you do that, you can end up dashing too far to cover no DI or DI in front without turning back around.

Whenever up-B wouldn't kill you'd be better off going for a combo (off down or up smash probably) or an edgeguard setup; getting free damage is good, but you lose all opportunity to gain positional advantage since the endlag is so huge (at low enough damages it's actually punishable on hit). If you were to, for example, down smash, you still get decent guaranteed damage and are able to shark the opponent coming down; which while not entirely guaranteed at worst ends in a reset to neutral (unless they go for a super risky/baitable/punishable falling drill or something), and gives you the possibility of getting more damage and maintaining your positional advantage (either hitting the opponent up again or offstage). Basically, position is more important than damage because that's what actually takes stocks, and because it gives you the opportunity to gain progressively more advantages (that, and you'll probably get more damage off a launcher anyway).

The thing with Luigi's jab reset is that his jab is really strong, so (for Fox at least) the opponent always has a choice of their options (stand, roll, or getup attack) rather than being forced to stand up in place. Unless you specifically want a grab, if you want a combo starter then try to just down smash missed tech if possible, or wait and react to their getup option.
 
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Army805

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
52
Hello, I made some view post about the chaingrabs on spacies. Fox Pal is lighter (1 unity below) so easier normally

In sum:

Against Fox (PAL):
-Just JC grab, react to DI until. 40%.
-40% to 55% is hard. So try to have fox into your arms at 47% (that s the perfect %, Btw 48% is probably better than 46%). So throw him just around 36%-40% and give him a pummel if need to reach 47%. If you have a good masher player, you can't give two pummel in a row. So listen to the controller's oppenent to know if he s a Crazy Masher.
-If you have fox in a bad % (like 50% to 55%). Go for the Upthrow to Uptilt to regrab. Ofc it s only to cover the DI behind Luigi, if not you can just grab.
- After 55% you can begin to WD grab instead of JC grab. You can Chaingrab with WD until 110% if they always Di behind Luigi: here below the tips to cover DI in front Luigi or No Di:

-At 68%, you can UpB if Fox DI in front of Luigi. If not continue to chaingrab. After this ~%, you can't regrab oppenent if they DI in front of Luigi.
-At 78%, you can WD to UpB if Fox Di behind Luigi. That s a important spot to ****ed people who always DI behind luigi.
- Around 85% you can try Uptilt to UpB in the air to the kill. Or FH upair (If they Survival DI) to UpB in the air
- Around 90% you can try UpAir to trap their Survival Di and go for the strong Nair who kills.
- After 100%. Can go directly for the UpB in the air if they Di front of Luigi or WD Fsmash if they Di behind.

-Tricks to ****ed people who knows that DI in front of Luigi is good after ~75%: Go for the Downthrow and you can convert into a turnaround UpB.


Against Falco (It s a post on a other thread):

On Falco, I didn't do so precise % research. But you can definetly standard chaingrab 0 to 45%. Then to passe the difficult part (between 45 to 55%), i do a WD to uptilt to regrab, Thats not guaranted but give a tech case in the worst case. You can again WD to grab after 55%. 77% is the best to UpB if BadDi. WD to UpB on Falco is way harder than PAL fox, i dont do it but certainly possible.

- At 90%, Upthow to Uptilt to UpB in the air is rellay easier than Fox PAL. You can try this

Its basically the same.
So it is actually possible on spacies to just U-throw dash back JC grab DI behind at low percents?
 
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