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Listing the ATs in Order from Most Useful to Least Useful

DKMikey

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I'm compiling a list of all project M advanced techniques (ATs). These techniques can be done by most, if not all, the cast and nothing is character-specific. I have divided the list into tiers. Top tiers are the most useful techniques, and mastering them will improve your game significantly. Bottom tiers won't improve your play very much. This thread is designed for new players, so they know what ATs are in project M and what they should practice.

Now, all I need is community feedback. What do you think of the tiers? Also, if I have missed any universal ATs, please let me know.

Edit: A future update will provide videos of these advanced techniques

Tier S Advanced Techniques - Practice, Practice, Practice!
Shorthop: Tap the jump button quickly. You will perform a shorter jump than usual. Short hops come out faster than full jumps.
Fastfall: Hold the control stick down at the peak of your jump. This will increase your fall speed. Can be done with either a short hop or a full jump.
L-Cancel: Right before you hit the ground, if you're in the middle of air attack, press the shield button to decrease the recovery time. There are 7 frames during which an attack can be L-canceled. The lag of the air attack will be cut in half. Your character will flash white if performed successfully.
SHFFL: Combine the techniques listed above. Short hop, perform an aerial attack, fast fall, and then L-Cancel.
Directional Influence (DI): Will alter your trajectory to help you survive better. Easiest way to do it is to just DI everything that sends you in a somewhat horizontal direction upwards and DI upwards-sending attacks in the same direction as the opponent is facing (or the opposite if they hit you with the back of the attack).
Smash Directional Infuence (SDI): Hold the C-Stick in a direction during the hitlag of an attack. Some attacks have multiple frames during which the attack connects (a Samus charge shot). You can input multiple Smash DI’s during this period.
Edge Hog: Excluding tether recoveries (ex: Zero Suit Samus, Ivysaur), only one character may be holding onto the edge at a given time. By grabbing the ledge before your opponent, you may prevent him from holding the edge to recover. Grabbing the ledge gives you invincibility frames. Rolling has the longest invincibility frames while you still actually occupy the edge, therefore, time a roll just as your opponent performs his up-B to keep him from grabbing on and yourself from getting hit.
Tech: After getting hit, press the shield button within 20 frames of hitting a surface. You can tech off a ledge, ground, or wall. Tilt the control stick left or right to roll during a ground tech. A tech jump (off a ledge or wall) can be performed by simultaneously pressing the jump button when teching.
Shield grab: Grab the moment the shield-stun wears off of your character from the opponent's attack move.

Tier A Advanced Techniques - Know Them, Use Them
Ledge Sweetspot: Use the up special to reach the furthest point from the edge of a platform at which your character can still grab the edge. Avoids most ground attacks by recovering too low to be hit, but vulnerable to edge hogging.
Tech Chase: Follow the opponent's tech (see: above), grab, throw, then follow however they tech the throw.
Crouch Cancel: Before you are hit, press down on the control stick to reduce the amount of damage and knockback dealt by the attack. This effectively guarantees a lower launch angle angle to DI.
Jab reset: Cancel the opponent’s tumbling or stun animation by hitting them with a jab.If they do not tech, you will “reset” their position and be and be able to follow up with virtually any move. There are two different reset states, one where you hit your opponent while they’re lying on the ground and another if they are standing or air borne (usually during a tumble).
Waveland: When in the air, immediately airdodge into the ground at any angle. Allows you to perform actions faster than if you wait for your character to hit the ground normally.
Waveland (onto stage): Move the control stick away from the stage, jump, and immediately waveland onto the stage.
Waveland (grab ledge): Wavedash near the ledge while facing away from it. Allows to quickly grab the edge.
Wavedash: Jump, then immediately airdodge into the ground at an angle. Each character has different timing based on their jump animations/duration.
Dash Dance: Tap the control stick back and forth quickly to keep turning around in the opening dash animation.
Perfect shield: If you press the shield button all the way down within 3 frames of you being hit, you will block the attack without putting up your shield and be able to retaliate immediately. If the attack is a projectile, you will reflect it back at your opponent and your shield will come up.
Pivot: Dash one direction, then quickly tap the opposite direction and perform any attack. The attack has to be performed as your character is pivoting to change his direction.
Reverse Neutral B: Tap the control stick in the opposite direction you face. Immediately press B.
Wavebounce: This technique only works in midair. Use any special, and then immediately tap the control stick in the opposite direction you face.
Reverse Aerial Rush (RAR): Run, tap the control stick in the opposite direction, and immediately jump as the turnaround animation begins. Your character will jump like a normal jump out of a run, but face the other direction.

Tier B Advanced Techniques - Situationally Useful
Dash cancel: While dashing, hold down on the control stick to cancel the dash.
Pivot Grab: Dash and then pivot in the other direction. At the exact moment of pivoting, press the grab button. This results in a grab that has longer reach than most normal grabs, with an invisible grab box for most characters.
Boost Grab: Dash, then press the attack button while dashing to perform a dash attack, then press the grab button immediately within the first frame to grab. If done correctly, the dash attack will be canceled and the player will skip straight to a grab. If they skip the first frame of the dash attack and then grab, then the player won't do a boost grab and will suffer the endlag of the Dash Attack.
Pivot + Boost Grab: Dash, tap down on the C-stick, and then immediately press Z+(The opposite direction you're facing).
Jump-Cancel: Jump. There is a period of delay, ranging from 3 to 8 frames, before your character actually leaves the ground. During this delay, since the character is grounded, it is possible to execute a few of the character's standing moves. These moves are up smash, up B, grab, and the item throw.

Tier C Advanced Techniques - Less Situationally Useful
Glidetoss: Grab a throwable item. Perform a roll and almost immediately (about 6 frames) after throw the item in any direction. The character will then cancel the roll and throw the item, but seeing as the player's momentum is kept from the roll, the character will slide along the ground.
Aerial Glidetoss (AGT): Grab a throwable item. Perform an airdodge and almost immediately (about 6 frames) after throw the item in any direction. The character will then cancel the dodge and throw the item.
Meteor Cancel: When hit with a meteor smash, you have 16 frames after hitlag to use an up special or jump, thereby cancelling your downwards momentum.
Shield angle: When shielding, move your control stick up, down, left, or right to prevent shield poking. (Shield poking refers to when the opponent hits a part of your body that is not covered by your shield).
Shield DI: Similar to SDI, except it refers to hitlag on shield.
Wavedash Out-of-Shield (OoS): After shielding with one shoulder button (L or R), immediately wavedash with the other shoulder button that wasn't used to hold the shield.
UpB/UpSmash Out-of-Shield (OoS): When shielding, hold up and B to use your up special. If your character jumps, you have pressed your special button (up+B) too late. To up smash out of shield, release the shield button before pressing up and A.
DACUS [some characters]: Initiate a dash attack by pressing down on the C-Stick and immediately afterward cancel the dash by pressing up on the control stick and Z at the same time to perform an up-smash.
Wall jump [some characters]: With certain characters (Lucario, Toon Link, Mario, Squirtle, etc.), you can jump toward a wall and then tap the joystick away from the wall to jump off of the wall. This doesn't use up any jumps.

Tier D Advanced Techniques - Rarely Useful
Shield Platform Drop: Be on a platform. Hit your shield button and tap down softly on the control stick after any frame your shield appears. If your shield tilts, you didn't press far down enough. If you spotdodge, you pressed it too far down.
Jab cancel: The jab cancel can be performed by any character with a multiple-attack neutral attack jab combo. At any point in the combo, before reaching the "final" hit, the player can quickly crouch to cancel the combo and allow the character to perform other attack moves without continuing the full combo.
Footstool: Use a taunt in midair when your character is directly above the opponent. You will bounce off of the character's head. When used on a grounded opponent, it briefly freezes the opponent while they are in an animation of the player bouncing off their head. When used on an opponent in midair, it causes the opponent to tumble a set distance.
Platform Cancel: Jump through a moving platform (ex: Smashville), press down on the C-stick or control stick when your character's feet are right below the platform, and then perform any action. Allows you to act faster off a moving platform.

Tier E Advanced Techniques - Derp Around With This Stuff
Moon walk: Dash in a direction and quickly do a half-circle rotation with the control stick to the opposite direction.
Pivot walk: Hold A, walk and push the C-stick in a 45 degree back-up direction (requires C-stick set to smash). Your character will spin 360 degrees, while still maintaining his forward velocity, and if you do this in the right pace your character will be continously spinning. You can do the same attacks out of this as you can a normal walk. If you press the c-stick too much up, you will start a dash, if you press the c-stick too much back, you will start charging a fsmash in that direction.
Taunt Cancel: Run towards a ledge and activate your taunt. The taunt animation will be cancelled, but the taunt sound will continue.
 
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mYzeALot

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I think teching is much more important than knowing how to wavedash. No teching means unlimited combos for your opponent...
 

Paradoxium

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You forgot shield dropping and Jab resets

And maybe Tech chasing and Chain grabbing? Not sure if these are classified as advanced techs

Oh yea and edge hogging is pretty important, don't forget that
 

Chesstiger2612

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I would argue DI is more important than some stuff listed before and would also make some changes, but I like the idea of the thread for new players
If there were links to little tutorial clips on each AT it would be complete :).
Are you also gonna implement ATs only specific characters can use like waddledashing?
 

Paradoxium

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Instead of listing the ATs in order from best to worst, put them into groups and then order the groups from best to worst, kinda like the tier list format, otherwise you're going to be editing this thing for days
 
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Xenozoa425

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AGT is extremely important for Link/Tink for their recovery and general bomb mixups. It should at least be on the bottom of the first list.
 

Thane of Blue Flames

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I thought this was about Assist Trophies ...

Real talk, though, DI, SHFFLs and jumping OoS are all up there in basic. Then Wavedashing and fancier things. I don't know how 'advanced' teching is ... even a lot of casual players know about and use it.
 

DKMikey

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List has been updated! Thanks for all feedback.

I think teching is much more important than knowing how to wavedash. No teching means unlimited combos for your opponent...
I agree. I probably put Wavedashing far too high up on the list.

You forgot shield dropping and Jab resets

And maybe Tech chasing and Chain grabbing? Not sure if these are classified as advanced techs

Oh yea and edge hogging is pretty important, don't forget that
Great, added all besides chain grabbing. Mostly because I don't know how many characters can do it, and specifically how situational/useful it is. I may add it in a later update.

I would argue DI is more important than some stuff listed before and would also make some changes, but I like the idea of the thread for new players
If there were links to little tutorial clips on each AT it would be complete :).
Are you also gonna implement ATs only specific characters can use like waddledashing?
Yeah, I'm hoping this thread will be very helpful for new players. I will add both links to YouTube videos and a written description of each technique and how to perform it once we have decided on where each technique goes.

Instead of listing the ATs in order from best to worst, put them into groups and then order the groups from best to worst, kinda like the tier list format, otherwise you're going to be editing this thing for days
Best idea ever. Now I won't have to change the order of these ATs every 10 minutes.

AGT is extremely important for Link/Tink for their recovery and general bomb mixups. It should at least be on the bottom of the first list.
I've reorganized everything into tiers. Tell me what you think about the current positioning of the AGT/GT.

I thought this was about Assist Trophies ...

Real talk, though, DI, SHFFLs and jumping OoS are all up there in basic. Then Wavedashing and fancier things. I don't know how 'advanced' teching is ... even a lot of casual players know about and use it.
This thread would be so much more fun if it was about assist trophies. Sadly, that's not the case.
 

Kink-Link5

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Wavedash is about on par with Walking as a technique. Waveland onto stage and Wavedash edgehog or much more important.

DI and SHFFL are the most vital techniques that require a degree of input precision.
 

Pseudomaniac

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I think it's kinda hard to universally arrange all ATs from most to least useful. Different characters use different ATs for different things. For example, Ganondorf pretty much has to SHFFL (or autocancel) in order to be even remotely viable, but his wavedash is only marginally useful. Luigi, on the other hand, can get away with not SHFFLing due to his excessive floatiness limiting his fastfall and the already-low endlag on his aerials, but he is almost completely reliant on wavedashing for mobility. I think a more useful endeavor would be to explain the utilities of each AT, what kinds of characters they are\aren't useful for, and maybe a tutorial on how to perform them.

NOTE: I'm not saying Ganondorf can't\shouldn't ever wavedash or that Luigi can't\shouldn't ever SHFFL. I'm just stating the differences between the AT usage of different characters.
 

DKMikey

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I think it's kinda hard to universally arrange all ATs from most to least useful. Different characters use different ATs for different things. For example, Ganondorf pretty much has to SHFFL (or autocancel) in order to be even remotely viable, but his wavedash is only marginally useful. Luigi, on the other hand, can get away with not SHFFLing due to his excessive floatiness limiting his fastfall and the already-low endlag on his aerials, but he is almost completely reliant on wavedashing for mobility. I think a more useful endeavor would be to explain the utilities of each AT, what kinds of characters they are\aren't useful for, and maybe a tutorial on how to perform them.
I see your point. For example, ledge sweetspotting isn't useful at all for tether recovery characters. Learning how to taunt cancel with Kirby is more important than moonwalking. However, the idea behind this thread is to get better as a player by improving your technical skill. So, let's say you play Ganon and learned how to Wavedash. Then Luigi got a huge buff, and you've never tried him, and he ends up being your favorite character. Since wavedashing (among other techniques) is universal, you have more options when you play any character of the cast.

Unfortunately, I will not "explain the utilities of each AT, what kinds of characters they are\aren't useful for". My main philosophy about Smash Bros. is experimentation. Learn the technique, experiment for yourself, and see what it's good for and not good for. This thread will give you the tools you need to know to become a better player. How and when you use those tools should be up to you, not me. (tl;dr - I suck too much and don't want to misinform anyone).
 

DrinkingFood

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This whole thing is kinda silly
It doesn't even specify if this is an ordering of usefulness, or an ordering of difficulty, or an ideal ordering of which to learn them in
not every tech has the same usefulness for every character
wavedashing is not that great for jiggs, absolutely mandatory for Luigi, etc
 

Paradoxium

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This whole thing is kinda silly
It doesn't even specify if this is an ordering of usefulness, or an ordering of difficulty, or an ideal ordering of which to learn them in
not every tech has the same usefulness for every character
wavedashing is not that great for jiggs, absolutely mandatory for Luigi, etc
But wavedashing is useful for every character, there is no reason not to do it, so i believe it is an important tech.

and this guy is also gonna put up instructions on how to do all these so at least it will have some usefulness
 

DKMikey

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It doesn't even specify if this is an ordering of usefulness, or an ordering of difficulty, or an ideal ordering of which to learn them in
The purpose behind this thread is for the second point, ordering of usefulness. Not usefulness for each and every character, but usefulness as in they will give you more useful options no matter who you play.

wavedashing is not that great for jiggs, absolutely mandatory for Luigi, etc
I know this, but a wavedashing jigglypuff has more options than a jigglypuff that doesn't know how to wavedash. Would wavedashing still be in A-Tier for Jigglypuff? Probably not, but it is far more useful than taunt cancelling, moonwalking, DACUS'ing, or glidetossing.

Edit: Added how to perform these actions. Credits go to many sources.
 
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NeonApophis

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WD OOS and dash dancing are definitely top tier. WD OOS is not as basic and essential as most of the stuff in your top tier, but it is a universally excellent oos option that is very important for winning the neutral game. Dash dancing is also essential for the neutral game and allows you to force an advantageous situation.
 

Daftatt

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wow, good list, I totally agree with it, should be a pinned topic. didn't even know about boost grab, I was just using jump-canceled grab. I think dash dancing should be elaborated on, there is so much more to it than just turning around in place, see ken's tutorial on marth dash dancing.
 
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Daftatt

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Almost certainly should be a prominent topic.

For Reflex and Strong Bad's sake, want to add footstooling?
it's there, it's in D-tier, which as far as the current metagame is considered is a good place for it. But man, if I can spike people with it out of the ZSS D-smash stun it is gonna be movin on up.
 

The_NZA

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Your definition for Smash DI is all off. What you are trying to refer to there is ASDI, not SDI.
 

TreK

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Reading the list without reading the title, you could believe that it is a list from easiest to hardest to perform.
I think the whole thing gives the wrong idea, though I fail to figure out why.
 

Daftatt

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Reading the list without reading the title, you could believe that it is a list from easiest to hardest to perform.
I think the whole thing gives the wrong idea, though I fail to figure out why.
Not really, things higher or lower on the list vary greatly in difficulty, but certainly not in any order. DACUS people can find hard, SHFFL is really hard, teching is easy, edge hog is easy, dash cancel is easy, dash dancing is an inbetween difficulty. My point being I don't agree with that they are easiest to hardest in any way. Also I think the list functions quite well for a total beginner as a guide on what AT to learn in what order. There is a reason short hop, fast fall, and L cancel, then SHFFL are done in that order.
 

TreK

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Yup, and that reason is that short hopping and fast falling are easier than L cancelling, and that combining them is harder than doing them indivicually.
I couldn't agree more when you say it gives the idea of in which order you should learn ATs. And that's my point : why would it be synonimous with usefulness ?
 

Soft Serve

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I would put sheild dropping higher in the list, its something that really really really is incredibly useful and is still being developed in melee. Right now its like, yoshi players, a good percent of the top players, and most of AZ that use it often. It allows for you to get out of horrible positions where you get stuck above people, and that alone should make it at least in the "moderately useful" grouping, as that is a situation that is very common in smash.
 

Player -0

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I have a few problems, where it says wavebounce you're actually defining a B-Reverse.

Also you can say that platform canceling is pretty much overshadowed by wavelanding.
 

BigglesWorth

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I am at a loss with this idea. There are techniques that are more generally useful for everyone. Some techniques that are extremely important to some characters (like waddledashing with DDD, glide toss with Link, or wavebouncing with Lucario). Some techniques are incredibly useful but only at high levels of play (dash dancing and wavedash out of shiedl and pivoting). It seems like each character would need their own tiers of tech as well as tiers for higher levels verse basic levels of competitive play. Although a list this is great for saying what tech is the most fundamental (generally useful to as many characters), but it doesn't necessarily reflect its real usefulness because the level of play and the characters (possibly even matchups) I would think would have way to big of an impact on what is useful. I really do like the list.
 

BigglesWorth

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Double Jump Cancelling, Float Cancels, parrying (Yoshi), sweetspotting (as in hitting with sweetspots with moves), love jumps (specials that carry momentum out of hitstun), edgestalling, haxdashing, Act-out-of-upB (Like Mewtwos, Game and Watch, Zelda, etc), mutlishining (for Lucas, Spacies, and Ness), waveshine (also Lucas, Spacies, and Ness), and triangle jumping (anglining your short hop wavelands to carry a bit of invincibility) should be added. Chaingrabbing is incredibly useful for many characters (Marth, Peach, IC, and a lot more).
 

TimeSmash

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I think for right now this is serving as a generalization of ATs and is not character specific as of yet. I do agree with you chaingrabbing should be added, but other things that you mentioned (not everything) are not inclusive of most of the cast in this game.

I hope that doesn't come off as rude or anything, I would love a guide talking all about character (or character groups, like spacies techniques) at some point
 

BigglesWorth

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I think for right now this is serving as a generalization of ATs and is not character specific as of yet. I do agree with you chaingrabbing should be added, but other things that you mentioned (not everything) are not inclusive of most of the cast in this game.

I hope that doesn't come off as rude or anything, I would love a guide talking all about character (or character groups, like spacies techniques) at some point
I didn't take it as rude at all. I was actually was just developing the opinion that it might so character specific that ranking even general techniques wouldn't be a real indicator to how useful they are, but rather ranking with term "fundamental" since it conveys the idea of general usefulness for as many as possible. I was wondering about whether or not my suggestions were too character specific; the reason I mentioned them is because DACUS (which isn't for some of the cast) was mentioned and things like multishining and waveshining are pretty defining techniques to play against as well. Triangle Jumping (though technically universal) was mentioned just to have a complete list. Ledgestalling is used by a lot of characters and a lot of ways. I am unsure as to how many characters could actually haxdash to any effectiveness in PM.
 

TimeSmash

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Yes, I understand completely what you're saying. Melee has an excellent thread like this that tells you all about terms and techniques, but of course it was completed quite some time after the game was out haha. I am surprised edgestalling isn't up there though. I agree with you on that as well as the fact that character specific ATs would be hard to place in the list, so maybe as a suggestion to the OP if they so desire to include such techniques, make it a side list, probably not in tiers? It would definitely be difficult to place in things like multishine in a "Know them, use them" sort of overall list if you main someone like let's say, Olimar or something ohoho:p
 
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