totesmagotes
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2014
- Messages
- 26
Does anyone have any advice on the Link matchup? It feels really frustrating to me, it's like someone gave Marth projectiles.
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Link Matchup
- Thread starter totesmagotes
- Start date
tigurz
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2014
- Messages
- 5
Not sure about your level, but i'll give general notes that I picked up. If he grabs you, di away from him. any other di will usually give him some sort of follow up, usually uptilt. If he's campy, play around with your turnips too. RNG is very nice sometimes lol. don't be afraid to play with your shield to block projectiles, and watch for any followups he may throw out. to edgeguard him, understand his options for recovery- if they go low there's a high chance that link will throw out a tether jump to up b, fading forward or back. if they're down there you can usually hit them out of it with a turnip or bair if you put it out correctly. just be careful because they can snap really fast upwards because of the tether. other than that pressure with turnips if they're in the air to force a jump or a certain type of recovery, or if you know where they're gonna try to pull out a bomb or you can read them go for a bair to push them far out.
totesmagotes
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2014
- Messages
- 26
I find it hard to play the turnip game with Link, because he has so many more projectiles to respond with. His boomerang can come out right away, and bombs can be pulled out in the air. I'll keep the edge-guarding advice in mind. How do you feel about this matchup? In a situation where both players know the matchup, who do you think has the advantage?
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tigurz
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2014
- Messages
- 5
I mean, it's eh. Getting camped is always annoying. But learning when is safe to pull turnips is super important in any matchup other than this one. you're at a disadvantage to his two to three ranged options, but if you can play the options correctly you'll be fine. If both players know the matchup it depends on positioning. peach has nice combos and awesome pressure because of her float cancelling, so if she can get in and applies pressure correctly it's super hard to get out of. on the other side if you're at a ranged distance, peach isn't limited compared to a character like captain falcon (though his speed helps him a lot) and can still apply pressure to link if he decides to pull at odd times and stuff. I'm no expert in the matchup but it's honestly probably not that bad of a mu for peach. Link isn't super floaty like puff and can't exactly wall you out as hard as marth can so you're much less restricted in a sense fighting a link than them.
Sycorax
Smash Ace
My main practice partner last Fall was a Link main. We went even the whole time. Peach is definitely one of Link's doable match ups. She doesn't have the tools that allow her to abuse Link's weaknesses, namely his slow speed and bad defensive and out of shield game. I think the match up is 6:4 at best for Peach.
Link's job in the match up is to camp you. Peach wins the close quarters fight. He has a sword so he can zone you decently well, but his moves have blind spots. Learn to exploit those blind spots. A big one is above and in front of him. He has no way to cover that quickly, safely, or easily. You can kind of fullhop float in front of him like you can against Ice Climbers. He has better ways than they to deal with it though, namely fullhop nair. However, fullhop nair is a big commitment by him. If he starts calling out your fullhop floats with his nair, then you can switch it up to make things difficult for him. Sometimes you can outspace the nair with a retreating fair. Otherwise, just mixup you float timings. Fullhop float, move in to bait the nair, fall back and down to the ground outside of his nair range and let him whiff the nair. You won't be able to get a direct punish, but he'll now be in a place he doesn't want to be. First of all, he has to come down. If he falls down with the nair, shield or CC it. If he double jumps out of the nair, follow his movement. How you punish exactly will depend on his habits and the stage.You may not be able to punish, but still shark under him with threats of attacks making him uncomfortable. If he starts outspacing your FC fairs, that means you can start being more aggressive with them and/or switching up your timings. Also try delaying them. The fullhop float fair threat is enough to make him act. Threaten the fair and respond to his response to your threat.
Dthrow dair doesn't work on Peach. You can jump air dodge out at all relevant percents. It doesn't true combo until like 140%, especially if you DI behind her. However, at these percents where it is close to working, he can just uair you for the kill easily.
Don't be afraid to shield a lot. He has to go for a hard read to grab you and if he's wrong it means the start of a big combo or the start of an edge guard. Punish missed grab with uair or dash attack to combo, and fair/nair to edge guard. If he starts reading your shields, start using rolling away. He'll have to hard read that to punish if he even can.
Edgeguarding Link is difficult. He has so many options that it's hard or impossible to cover them all. I don't have anything to say except do standard Peach stuff. At the very least, try to edge guard him in a way where you can maintain stage control if he makes it back.
Don't try to out-camp him. It might be possible, but you're just playing to his strengths in the match up. This doesn't mean don't use turnips. Since he is so slow, he can't really punish you for pulling them. Pull one and use it to control his movement and/or start pressure.
Don't dsmash his shield unless he's facing away from you. Grab, jab, or fc nair after you land a good shield pressure FC aerial.
Bomb pulls take 40 frames. Since he can pull them in the air, he can make it pretty safe, but it's still a long commitment. Use that time to move in and start at least zoning pressure. Shielding bombs is a good counter.
You don't get any true combos off uthrow.
Last but not least, stages. I think Peach's preferences go: FD > Yoshi's > Fountain > Pokemon = Dreamland > Battlefield. Avoid dreamland and battlefield because he can jump around on the platforms too well and camp you out. His camping is extremely strong on those two stages.
These are all just general nuances, but none of this is really going to give you a good edge, imo. The match up really comes down to fundamentals. If you could give more info about what you find difficult with the match up, I could talk through it more with you.
EDIT: The best thing you can do to abuse Link's low-tier-ness is to be extremely safe. Don't overextend at all. Threaten safely without high commitment. His options are generally bad. Push him to choose an option (not just a move, but any option -- jump, movement, shield, drift, and more -- and punish the option).
Link's job in the match up is to camp you. Peach wins the close quarters fight. He has a sword so he can zone you decently well, but his moves have blind spots. Learn to exploit those blind spots. A big one is above and in front of him. He has no way to cover that quickly, safely, or easily. You can kind of fullhop float in front of him like you can against Ice Climbers. He has better ways than they to deal with it though, namely fullhop nair. However, fullhop nair is a big commitment by him. If he starts calling out your fullhop floats with his nair, then you can switch it up to make things difficult for him. Sometimes you can outspace the nair with a retreating fair. Otherwise, just mixup you float timings. Fullhop float, move in to bait the nair, fall back and down to the ground outside of his nair range and let him whiff the nair. You won't be able to get a direct punish, but he'll now be in a place he doesn't want to be. First of all, he has to come down. If he falls down with the nair, shield or CC it. If he double jumps out of the nair, follow his movement. How you punish exactly will depend on his habits and the stage.You may not be able to punish, but still shark under him with threats of attacks making him uncomfortable. If he starts outspacing your FC fairs, that means you can start being more aggressive with them and/or switching up your timings. Also try delaying them. The fullhop float fair threat is enough to make him act. Threaten the fair and respond to his response to your threat.
Dthrow dair doesn't work on Peach. You can jump air dodge out at all relevant percents. It doesn't true combo until like 140%, especially if you DI behind her. However, at these percents where it is close to working, he can just uair you for the kill easily.
Don't be afraid to shield a lot. He has to go for a hard read to grab you and if he's wrong it means the start of a big combo or the start of an edge guard. Punish missed grab with uair or dash attack to combo, and fair/nair to edge guard. If he starts reading your shields, start using rolling away. He'll have to hard read that to punish if he even can.
Edgeguarding Link is difficult. He has so many options that it's hard or impossible to cover them all. I don't have anything to say except do standard Peach stuff. At the very least, try to edge guard him in a way where you can maintain stage control if he makes it back.
Don't try to out-camp him. It might be possible, but you're just playing to his strengths in the match up. This doesn't mean don't use turnips. Since he is so slow, he can't really punish you for pulling them. Pull one and use it to control his movement and/or start pressure.
Don't dsmash his shield unless he's facing away from you. Grab, jab, or fc nair after you land a good shield pressure FC aerial.
Not really :/ It takes 30 frames to come out. Then it has to travel to you. Imagine if Marth's fsmash were 30 frames instead of its regular 11. You would totally be able to react to it every time! Shield or nair/bair the boomerang. Nair/bair will clang and you can act quickly.
Bomb pulls take 40 frames. Since he can pull them in the air, he can make it pretty safe, but it's still a long commitment. Use that time to move in and start at least zoning pressure. Shielding bombs is a good counter.
You don't get any true combos off uthrow.
Last but not least, stages. I think Peach's preferences go: FD > Yoshi's > Fountain > Pokemon = Dreamland > Battlefield. Avoid dreamland and battlefield because he can jump around on the platforms too well and camp you out. His camping is extremely strong on those two stages.
These are all just general nuances, but none of this is really going to give you a good edge, imo. The match up really comes down to fundamentals. If you could give more info about what you find difficult with the match up, I could talk through it more with you.
EDIT: The best thing you can do to abuse Link's low-tier-ness is to be extremely safe. Don't overextend at all. Threaten safely without high commitment. His options are generally bad. Push him to choose an option (not just a move, but any option -- jump, movement, shield, drift, and more -- and punish the option).
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totesmagotes
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2014
- Messages
- 26
Thanks Splits, I think you`ve given me enough information for now, the rest is just finding a Link Main to practice against. I ran into this guy in a bracket, and I had no idea what to do. Oh, and I followed your link for getting out of Falcon`s down-throw knee, I can`t wait to try that! I always thought that was guaranteed.
Sycorax
Smash Ace
If you don't have any Link players to practice against, watch some videos. There are at least a few videos out there of decent level Link vs Peach. Kalamazhu vs Saus is the only one that comes to mind right now. As for others, I would value watching a decent, dedicated Link main vs any Peach highly above some high tier Peach vs some random Link in pools. Watch videos and build a solid understanding of common situations in the match up so that you don't find yourself guessing or doing dumb stuff when you actually (potentially) encounter those situations the next time you play a Link player.