[Jul 26, 2014] The Salt Shaker - Circuit Championship 300$$ In Pot Bonuses (Indianapolis, Indiana)

[DtJ XeroXen]

I need a teammate for PM. I'm ok at that game.

 

[Xiivi]

Catering menu for the Salt Shaker
Hamburger/cheeseburger $3
Hotdog $2
Chilidog $3
Chips .50
Water $1
Soda .50

Make sure you pre reg: tiny.cc/saltshaker

Quoting so no one misses. No one has to make the hassle of leaving the venue for food!

Also we've coasted past the 50 unique pre-reg's mark. (Thanks to anyone who submitted duplicates to add more info/comments, it is appreciated!)

If all of those people show up and maybe some more who just suck at pre-regging, then we're looking for a great sized event.

 

[sneakytako]

I need a teammate for PM. I'm ok at that game.

I might be able to team with you xeroxen, I'll know for sure tomorrow.

 

[Overswarm]

Is there a way to see the pre-reg list?

 

[Rizner]

This just in: I won't have a recording setup.

Also I'm going to re-pre-reg to include more info.

 

[Hazie731]

Hey do you know how many people usually attend this event??

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Salty Sundays has been averaging roughly 40 people each week, which is a pretty casual event.

Right now, there are at least 50 confirmed unique pre-registered players, and there's a good possibility that many players have not pre-registered. This is the first time IndySmash has hosted a Saturday tournament of this caliber, in this venue, so prior numbers for an event like this don't exist.

And the world will never know if @ sneakytako and I are teaming in PM.

 

[CPU?]

You guys better be ready for a challenge.

 

[KassandraNova]

Hype!

:o

 

[Overswarm]

I should be bringing one full setup and one TV, so if someone has an extra wii / GC go ahead and bring it.

 

[Xiivi]

Is there a way to see the pre-reg list?

62; and this is only counting who pre-registered themselves; I did not count someone if their crew said they were coming but they didn't fill out a form. So we're looking like we're gonna have a good turnout!

Spoiler

$****22
BenCh
Cardweaver
CawRiN
CPU?
drummaniac28
GabeHD
Goodin
Gracen
hadesblade
Haggis-Chan
Haze
hunt22
INSANE CARZY GUY
iStorm
Jiano
JmanJ
JUCJ
K-TEL
KassandraNova
Kel
KellyK
Khale
Kit the Shadow
Kyari
Lanceinthepants
LeftNip
LuigigoShard
Magic Man
Mario49
McYeah
Mr.Famous
Nater
Notdustin97
OMD
Overswarm
Peanut
phantom1412
Photonic
Rizner
RoBoat
Rookie
Shrug
Sneakytako
The Fool
TheLastKooopa
Thexy
Tink
Tipsy
tripleunder
TylerBeyond
Ungrateful
Unsilenced
Village Mascot
voorhese
Wiisnake
Xenhan
XeroXen
Xiivi
Yaks
YamHam
Yoshido

I should be bringing one full setup and one TV, so if someone has an extra wii / GC go ahead and bring it.

A reminder to everyone:

Our venue is the Broadway United Methodist Church; we will have two different rooms at the venue. We have been working with the church for a while now, and it's a great safe and clean environment; please help keep it that way! There is plenty of space, with tons of chairs, tables, and we have built up a lot of CRTs which we store at the venue. Having adequate space and a large number of CRTs will not be an issue! Still, we encourage players to bring Melee and Project: M set-ups; and of course more CRTs are always welcome, especially if you're aiming for a good amount of money matches and friendlies.

So please, even if you don't have a CRT; bring a set-up anyway as we will hopefully be able to put it to good use! Of course, if you have a CRT please bring it as well, because it definitely can't hurt!

 

[Rizner]

Mascot usually has no tv but a setup. We'll probably fill oss with that. Xero, tako was talking Thursday like he planned in teaming with you. I'll have him confirm in like 20 minutes

 

[Rizner]

Yeah, tako good to team with you xero

 

[Overswarm]

Change of plans! Dr. X is now coming with us. We are bringing two CRTs, two cubes, and a wii. So, opposite from my last post. :B

 

[Rizner]

Just hit some traffic. Should be there by registration, but like we stopped moving on the highway. Any chance you could make sure tako, rizner, village mascot and toast bread are registered?

 

[Rizner]

Still stopped, os and all are behind us somewhere

 

[Overswarm]

This tournament was hot.

The matches were so tense I was constantly sweating.

When playing my sets I could have really used a fan or two at my station.

other temperature related puns

 

[Overswarm]

Enjoyed meeting some new people at this tournament, especially the yoshi main in Melee who let me play a good yoshi for the first time after like a decade of playing. Teaming with Drephen was fun. Playing the ness guy WiiSnake in PM was fun (GOOD JOB NESS GUY :D ). Teaming with Kel was fun, although I wish we had gotten to play Jiano and Drephen in teams; we'll have to step it up next time to meet them in bracket. Enjoyed playing Magic Man, fun to see new players with promise. Drephen vs. Jiano was seen for like the millionth time for me, but seemed pretty new to the crowd and it made it hype. BOO at drephen for not fairing twice to seal the bracket reset, YAY at drephen for not fairing twice because it meant we got to finish doubles and go home. BOO at my headlight for going out and for my windshield to constantly fog up for the first 20 minutes going home. Everyone who received segments of a quesadilla from me at the tournament, you are very welcome.

Also favorite part of tournament:

http://www.twitch.tv/indysmash/b/551456288

5:48 or so, double taunt :B

Didn't particularly enjoy the heatstroke everyone was experiencing. It was actually pretty dangerous, in the future you will need to figure out how to turn the AC on while still powering setups. That amount of heat for that long can actually seriously injure people, everyone was walking around blushing. o_O

Didn't enjoy the "food and drink will be provided by the venue" and then the table selling said food and drink left before any of the brackets started. >:[

The biggest thing that bothers me was the bracket manipulation done by the TOs. I was pretty surprised at how poorly the brackets were created for this tournament. There was clear and blatant bracket manipulation occurring after events had already started; I don't think I'll be bringing Cincinnati to any of your events for this reason. Bracket manipulation isn't cool. It's like cheating, but for TOs. Pretty much one of the cardinal rules of being a TO is "don't manipulate the bracket".

Taking someone out of a pool after our pool already was essentially finished because "another pool was too good" is not only bad initial pool placement but its also really ****ty TOing. Switching it from top 2 advance to top 3 advance is a band-aid, but the entire tournament's bracket changed as a result of this. People who had no idea this was going on (and thus no avenue to bring up objections) were effected by this, some positively and some negatively.

Adding in Vorheese as a three seed in Melee and putting him into bracket when he didn't play pools is all sorts of crazy, but having him fight Drephen first round and saying "oh, that's not right" and switching him to play me in bracket first round instead despite both Drephen and I having no sets dropped in pools was also clear and blatant bracket manipulation.

I had no idea that I and the others on my side of the bracket would be punished for getting first seed because the initial post said absolutely nothing about people being placed into bracket in this manner. The closest thing I can find is "Circuit Points will be distributed from event of the qualifying circuit events based on number of players. Circuit Points will help determine if you can get into the pro bracket at the final event!", in a totally separate thread but there's no listing of Circuit Points anywhere.

I enjoyed playing Vorheese but that screwed up the entire bracket by moving him from one first seed to another first seed. Super not cool.


In the future for your events, make sure you post all of the rules for your event. Also don't manipulate the bracket. If you screw up the bracket, you screw up the bracket. Changing people around when the seeds are correct, moving people between pools after pools are already almost done, that sort of stuff is very shady stuff that makes for untrustworthy TOs. I know its tempting to try to create "the perfect bracket", but you can't use names to distribute people. You can separate people by location for pools, but after pools are done the bracket should be automatically generated. The only movement in bracket should be a result of location (oh, the seeds are correct but it has all of this state playing each other first round), and that's just to encourage traveling.

After Smash 4 for Wii U comes out if your rules are more clearly posted I might bring Cincinnati again, but this event left me with a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

 

[Doctor X]

The biggest thing that bothers me was the bracket manipulation done by the TOs. I was pretty surprised at how poorly the brackets were created for this tournament. There was clear and blatant bracket manipulation occurring after events had already started; I don't think I'll be bringing Cincinnati to any of your events for this reason. Bracket manipulation isn't cool. It's like cheating, but for TOs. Pretty much one of the cardinal rules of being a TO is "don't manipulate the bracket".

Taking someone out of a pool after our pool already was essentially finished because "another pool was too good" is not only bad initial pool placement but its also really ****ty TOing. Switching it from top 2 advance to top 3 advance is a band-aid, but the entire tournament's bracket changed as a result of this. People who had no idea this was going on (and thus no avenue to bring up objections) were effected by this, some positively and some negatively.

I'd like to give you some background on this, OS. When I signed up for PM, the guy whose job it was to write down my name did not do so. The same happened with Drephen, I believe. Because they started all the pools at the same time, and the two of us were focused on our Melee pools, neither of us noticed this until a lot of the PM stuff was already happening. We were people who had no idea this was going on, and thus had no avenue to bring up objections.

Their solution, without really consulting either of us, was to put me in Voorhese's pool (which I'm fine with, honestly), and then (for whatever reason) switch someone else with Drephen (which I would have been fine with if more than top 2 moved out). This pool, as with others, was already underway. To some extent they already manipulated the bracket. It just happened to be screwing the three of us instead of you or Wiisnake.

I did not specifically ask to be switched out into your pool or anywhere else. I simply told the TO's that they messed up, and that the best solution would be to make it so that top 3 move out, which is how it should have been to begin with. I was not the only person complaining about it. For whatever reason, they didn't want to do that, though. So I asked them to look into the possibility of switching somebody with one of the three of us, because I was not interested in seeing any of us three get screwed just because someone derped and didn't write our names down. They decided to swap me into your pool, and I agreed to it because it was undeniably more fair.

Your pool had only two threats in it. Both you and Wiisnake were guaranteed to advance before it even started. Now, I'm aware that, for whatever reason, you have some kind of resistance to acknowledging me as a good PM player, but I did beat Voorhese, I did beat you, and I did beat Wiisnake twice. In my previous pool, we had a three-way tie emerging, and if I had played Drephen (who is better than either you or Wiisnake) and taken even one game off of him? He'd have been eliminated. If I didn't? I would have been eliminated. That's stupid and there's no excuse for it.

I stand behind the decision to solve this problem, and it's very possible that it may have helped Drephen much more than it helped me. It certainly would have been better to just let top 3 advance and leave it the hell alone otherwise. Again, I told them this, but they didn't listen. Call it a "band-aid" if you want, but band-aids are clinically proven to be better than nothing.

-

All that being said, the pre-seeding was handled very, very poorly, and is something that can and should have been planned for. If you use the circuit point ranking directly as if it were an additional pool, and your attendance at circuit events is sporadic (as seems to be the case here), then the results from that pool are based on attendance, rather than skill. As a result, people who compete in the open pools can actually get punished for succeeding (as what happened with OS/Drephen), and people who compete in the previous circuit events can actually get punished for even coming in the first place, since they lose their opportunity to get a first-seed from the open pools (as what happened with Voorhese).

I know there are plenty of successful circuit models out there that don't have this problem. My advice would be to look into these if you guys plan on trying this again. I actually hope you do, by the way. I appreciate all your hard work and would hate to see this drama discourage you.

-

Changing people around when the seeds are correct, moving people between pools after pools are already almost done, that sort of stuff is very shady stuff that makes for untrustworthy TOs.

I object to the notion of "shady stuff." Most of the time TO's just make mistakes. The players being uncooperative by disappearing after they were already late and playing friendlies on pool TV's doesn't help. It's very stressful and it is easy to mess up in that environment, and if you can't rely on your staff to write down names? It's even worse. I'm not going to hold a grudge, and I'm certainly not going to accuse these TO's of being "shady." My hope is that others will do the same.

-

After Smash 4 for Wii U comes out if your rules are more clearly posted I might bring Cincinnati again, but this event left me with a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

Lastly, I want everyone to be aware that OS does not speak for Cincinnati, and that most of us are perfectly capable of going wherever we want to, with or without his blessing. Again, thanks for all your hard work, TO's, and I'm sorry for any role I played in generating drama. I have every confidence that, should there be a next time, it will be much improved. Hopefully we'll see you all again at facebook official in two weeks.

 

[JmanJ]

If I've learned one thing about the smash community, it's that there's a notable sect that loves to create drama where there really isn't any to be had.

• It wasn't THAT hot, and it certainly can't be described as "dangerous". Don't be ridiculous.
• None of the TO's had any intention of "cheating" anyone. Sure, there was ONE oversight with PM pools placement and ONE issue with people in the same region playing early in bracket (and even that was because the player underperformed based on the seed he was given). It's funny how there are accusations of "shady stuff" when the pool we were trying to fix was fixed to help an out of state player.
• The food left earlier than I thought as well, sorry about that.

I'm genuinely surprised at the level of backlash from the last couple posts. I didn't think anything that happened at the tournament warranted 100% negative feedback from an attendee. The tournament certainly wasn't perfect, but it's a bummer that anyone else who sees this and wasn't in attendance will think it was a train wreck of a tournament. It seemed to me like everyone was having a good time. If we do another event, it will certainly be improved upon. But if the minor issues outlined above are enough to keep you from coming back, so be it. I don't think any of the Indy admins have any aspirations of being the "perfect TO team", we're more so a few smash players who wanted to put on an event for our friends in the Midwest. If you want a perfect tournament, feel free to go to Big House 4 and pay a $50 venue fee or whatever.

Shout outs to the 90% of people who I'm sure had a pretty good time. Hope to see you again if we decide to run something else.

 

[Broverdose]

@JmanJ
It was pretty hot, I didn't play any friendlies at the event and chose to stand outside inbetween bracket matches, AC should be a must for summer tournaments.
Also the circuit point seeding while possibly a good idea was put into effect pretty poorly as you guys gave Voorheese who took I believe 4th at the tournament a 3rd seed in bracket, that's just not really okay and messed up a lot of the bracket and that's only one example.

Take this as constructive criticism rather than complaints though, this was one of the most fun tournaments I've attended and for sure plan to attend the next!

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I'd like everyone to keep in mind that this was the first big tournament hosted both by this group of TOs and in this venue, obviously they've learned from the experience and any events hosted by them in the future should improve.

My only complaints are the way circuit points were handled and the excruciating heat. Otherwise I had a great time. If a results thread is posted I'll probably do some shoutouts or something.

Also if anybody went home with an extra white gamecube controller I'm totally missing one.

 

[Overswarm]

I'd like everyone to keep in mind that this was the first big tournament hosted both by this group of TOs and in this venue, obviously they've learned from the experience and any events hosted by them in the future should improve. My only complaints are the way circuit points were handled and the excruciating heat. Otherwise I had a great time. If a results thread is posted I'll probably do some shoutouts or something. Also if anybody went home with an extra white gamecube controller I'm totally missing one.

I saw one in the upper level when I was picking up my TV, just sitting on the ground amongst the TVs. It had no markings on it that I could see just picking up my TV. If that one was yours, it was there when Drephen + Village Mascot were playing their PM match in singles just after doubles.

 

[Kyari]

Are there pool results listed anywhere? I'd love to see 'em!

And SneakyTako..... **** you

 

[sneakytako]

Are there pool results listed anywhere? I'd love to see 'em!

And SneakyTako..... **** you

 

[Kyari]

hahahahaha

 

[Wiisnake]

I'd like to give you some background on this, OS. When I signed up for PM, the guy whose job it was to write down my name did not do so. The same happened with Drephen, I believe. Because they started all the pools at the same time, and the two of us were focused on our Melee pools, neither of us noticed this until a lot of the PM stuff was already happening. We were people who had no idea this was going on, and thus had no avenue to bring up objections.

Their solution, without really consulting either of us, was to put me in Voorhese's pool (which I'm fine with, honestly), and then (for whatever reason) switch someone else with Drephen (which I would have been fine with if more than top 2 moved out). This pool, as with others, was already underway. To some extent they already manipulated the bracket. It just happened to be screwing the three of us instead of you or Wiisnake.

I did not specifically ask to be switched out into your pool or anywhere else. I simply told the TO's that they messed up, and that the best solution would be to make it so that top 3 move out, which is how it should have been to begin with. I was not the only person complaining about it. For whatever reason, they didn't want to do that, though. So I asked them to look into the possibility of switching somebody with one of the three of us, because I was not interested in seeing any of us three get screwed just because someone derped and didn't write our names down. They decided to swap me into your pool, and I agreed to it because it was undeniably more fair.

Your pool had only two threats in it. Both you and Wiisnake were guaranteed to advance before it even started. Now, I'm aware that, for whatever reason, you have some kind of resistance to acknowledging me as a good PM player, but I did beat Voorhese, I did beat you, and I did beat Wiisnake twice. In my previous pool, we had a three-way tie emerging, and if I had played Drephen (who is better than either you or Wiisnake) and taken even one game off of him? He'd have been eliminated. If I didn't? I would have been eliminated. That's stupid and there's no excuse for it.

I stand behind the decision to solve this problem, and it's very possible that it may have helped Drephen much more than it helped me. It certainly would have been better to just let top 3 advance and leave it the hell alone otherwise. Again, I told them this, but they didn't listen. Call it a "band-aid" if you want, but band-aids are clinically proven to be better than nothing.

-

All that being said, the pre-seeding was handled very, very poorly, and is something that can and should have been planned for. If you use the circuit point ranking directly as if it were an additional pool, and your attendance at circuit events is sporadic (as seems to be the case here), then the results from that pool are based on attendance, rather than skill. As a result, people who compete in the open pools can actually get punished for succeeding (as what happened with OS/Drephen), and people who compete in the previous circuit events can actually get punished for even coming in the first place, since they lose their opportunity to get a first-seed from the open pools (as what happened with Voorhese).

I know there are plenty of successful circuit models out there that don't have this problem. My advice would be to look into these if you guys plan on trying this again. I actually hope you do, by the way. I appreciate all your hard work and would hate to see this drama discourage you.

-



I object to the notion of "shady stuff." Most of the time TO's just make mistakes. The players being uncooperative by disappearing after they were already late and playing friendlies on pool TV's doesn't help. It's very stressful and it is easy to mess up in that environment, and if you can't rely on your staff to write down names? It's even worse. I'm not going to hold a grudge, and I'm certainly not going to accuse these TO's of being "shady." My hope is that others will do the same.

-



Lastly, I want everyone to be aware that OS does not speak for Cincinnati, and that most of us are perfectly capable of going wherever we want to, with or without his blessing. Again, thanks for all your hard work, TO's, and I'm sorry for any role I played in generating drama. I have every confidence that, should there be a next time, it will be much improved. Hopefully we'll see you all again at facebook official in two weeks.

**** man it's hilarious knowing that I almost didn't make it out of pools despite placing 7th, probably could've gone farther too, next time I'll be sure to actually use my head phones to deal with Grand Finals hype. that said yeah, the Melee pools were so messed up, they almost put me in the same pool as two other Kentucky guys, Fortunately I got moved but the fact remains that it almost happened, then there was the PM fiasco with top 2. Fortunately dudes like Xeroxen, Boss, ICG, Drephen, and most notably Overswarm saved the tourney for me, all those guys are so chill.

 

[Overswarm]

**** man it's hilarious knowing that I almost didn't make it out of pools despite placing 7th, probably could've gone farther too, next time I'll be sure to actually use my head phones to deal with Grand Finals hype. that said yeah, the Melee pools were so messed up, they almost put me in the same pool as two other Kentucky guys, Fortunately I got moved but the fact remains that it almost happened, then there was the PM fiasco with top 2. Fortunately dudes like Xeroxen, Boss, ICG, Drephen, and most notably Overswarm saved the tourney for me, all those guys are so chill.

It was a lot of fun hanging out with you, you did a great job! Don't sweat losing to Tako, he's put some work in and had an impressive run this tournament; he took me to game 5 of the 3rd set in the last tournament we played at. Hope to see you at some future tournaments.

I have a pretty busy schedule and have to weigh going to smash tournaments with real-world stuff and other things like poker and get-togethers so I'm not quite sure when the next tournament is that I'll be attending, but the CSR tournaments in Cincinnati are fairly common. I've only been able to make it to one (and won't make it to the next one), but you should try coming up there sometime.


Edit:

To my recollection, in tournament I have been eliminated by Drephen (Sheik), Chu Dat (Pikachu), and Hylian (Link), so you have joined an elite club WiiSnake. Props to you, did a good job.

 

[Overswarm]

Your pool had only two threats in it. Both you and Wiisnake were guaranteed to advance before it even started. Now, I'm aware that, for whatever reason, you have some kind of resistance to acknowledging me as a good PM player, but I did beat Voorhese, I did beat you, and I did beat Wiisnake twice. In my previous pool, we had a three-way tie emerging, and if I had played Drephen (who is better than either you or Wiisnake) and taken even one game off of him? He'd have been eliminated. If I didn't? I would have been eliminated. That'sstupid and there's no excuse for it.

I didn't read your post before but wait, WHAT?!

You were switched out of a pool BECAUSE A THREE WAY TIE WAS EMERGING and someone decided "Oh man, these guys should make it to bracket"? Your pool was already underway and they switched you into another pool that was already underway?

Wow, **** that noise.

 

[Doctor X]

All three of us undeniably deserved to be in the bracket, and I really don't care whether you agree or not. I think that most people who know the three of us would say the same.

It also might help to note that, seeing as they started the PM pools while Melee was still going, literally every single pool was "already underway" by the time I even came downstairs. At this time, I wasn't in *any* of the pools, and as far as I know, neither was Drephen. No matter where they put us, someone was going to be unhappy about it. It was not an easy situation. We all wish it could have been, but it wasn't. I'm sorry that Wiisnake felt like he got screwed, but me, Drephen, and Voorhese were getting screwed much, much harder. Drephen went on to take 2nd place, but if we had kept playing and I took even one game off of him? He'd have drowned in pools.

By the way-- and contrary to what you might believe-- telling me you don't read my posts, presenting an incomplete understanding of the situation, and presenting no actual argument beyond "***** that noise" does not win you any points. Neither does threatening to never "bring Cincinnati" again, or talking to out-of-state TO's as if they were dogs to be trained, using our city's attendance as a treat to be granted or withheld based on how well they conform to your standards.

If you really want to stand behind this behavior, I'll be happy to discuss it further in private. I'm sure Indy players are not interested in our drama.

-

To everyone else, I want to make one thing perfectly clear. Despite the hiccups, I actually did have a really good time here, and I will be encouraging my fellow Cincinnati players to attend Indiana events in the future. The length and tone of my previous post arises more from frustration with Overswarm than it does from frustration with the event itself. My intensity in person, for any of you who witnessed it, is actually just how I am at tournaments, whether they're run perfectly or not. Apologies if anybody was offended, lol. See you all around.

 

[Kel]

Will there be a results thread complete with bracket?

 

[Overswarm]

All three of us undeniably deserved to be in the bracket, and I really don't care whether you agree or not. I think that most people who know the three of us would say the same.

That's not how pools work. You don't decide "who deserves to be in the bracket".

Wii Snake and I ended up getting top 8. This makes the 4th tournament that I did not win. No one looking at the pool should say "whoa, there's a 3-way tie possibility and Overswarm might not make it out! Better rearrange the pool to meet my expectations".

This is especially the case because our pool was effectively finished by the time Wii Snake and I played our set. We were playing both already guaranteed top two, then Wii Snake was suddenly eliminated after he had already guaranteed placement.

Pools are meant to seed the bracket. You don't put people in pools and change them if you don't like the outcome. If Drephen drowned in pools, he drowned in pools. You don't get special treatment because you're "supposed" to win. You get what you are given.

Yeah, pools can be crappily seeded. If I was in the pool and I had lost to both you and Wii Snake and been eliminated, oh well! I'd have been eliminated. Should have played better. My past performance doesn't guarantee me a place in bracket.

But from what I'm seeing, the bracket was deliberately manipulated after games had been played specifically to save you and Drephen from potentially being eliminated? That is literally cheating, black-and-white.

 

[sneakytako]

Soooo before I say anything else I would like to say this.

I would first like to apologize for everyone from Cinci being late. There was a major accident on I74 that blocked off every lane and had traffic stopped for about 45min-1hour. This probably played a major role in the tardiness of the tournament, although it was out of our control I'd like to thank the TO's consideration to not DQ us.

I appreciate the consideration for our cars to not get DQed, but honestly the correct answer may have been to DQ both of our cars out of doubles for both events. We tried to keep you guys updated on our status but in a tournament that is strained for time it may have been better to just bite the bullet and DQ us. This is kinda why I wished you guys would run doubles first, it's usually the golden standard for most tournaments to run doubles events first.

With that said what exactly happened in PM pools? I heard the drephen, Voorheese, and Dr. X were all put in the same pool, but what was the conclusion?

 

[Kel]

Tako, that's not how that usually works haha.

You don't tell people who are driving out of town to support your event that they cannot play because of something out of their own control. You continue moving forward as far as possible until they arrive. By the time we arrived there were only 2 matches played in my pool. I didn't end up bottelnecking my pool at all.

Imagine if Boss was driving from Maryland and was told "stopped traffic due to fatal accident? LOL too bad!"

Our situation was handled fine. The brackets and PM pools sound like it was FUBAR.

 

[Overswarm]

With that said what exactly happened in PM pools? I heard the drephen, Voorheese, and Dr. X were all put in the same pool, but what was the conclusion?

My pool was effectively finished (two non-important rounds to be played) and then they added Dr. X into the pool, eliminating Wii Snake who had previously been guaranteed 2nd seed.

This was because Dr. X, Drephen, and Vorheese were in the same pool and Dr. X decided that his pool was too hard (which that is a hard pool) and because only top 2 went out for some crazy freaking reason. The TOs solution was "I don't want Dr. X, Drephen, or Vorheese to potentially be screwed! Let's screw someone else instead!" and then removed someone from my pool who had already played their matches and replaced him with Dr. X.

Wii Snake was then eliminated, as he lost to Dr. X.

I went to Xivii and told him what had happened because that really wasn't fair to Wii Snake. This isn't a "my pool is hard' situation, this is a "You're guaranteed out" and us not recognizing there was another player who was going to simply replace one we had already both beaten. Xivii then allowed top 3 to advance from pools, so Wii Snake was entered in bracket. It was a good gesture to Wii Snake and the others who might have been sidelined by top 2 advance, but was a band-aid over a wound. The entire bracket for PM was changed because of it.

I'm not sure which TO decided to alter pools that were already almost done because they didn't like the outcome Whoever it was, it was honestly one of the worst TO decisions I have ever seen occur. It wasn't an honest mistake like "oops I made a hard pool" or "Oh, I didn't know this entire pool was made up from the same city" or "Wait, you guys LIVE together?" issue, but an actual case of bracket manipulation. Completely messed up and unprofessional.



For those of you wondering, the correct response to "Drephen, Vorheese, and Dr. X are in the same pool! One won't make it out!" is "I'm sorry the pools were poorly seeded, but given that the matches have already been played we can't alter the pools to help you. That would be unfair to the other players who are eliminated and aren't having their pools changed."

TOs make mistakes, it happens. I've been to tournaments where I have to play Kel in 2nd round singles, despite winning doubles with him prior to the bracket being seeded. I've been to tournaments where they accidentally advanced the wrong person from pools, and no one knew until it was two rounds in. I've been to tournaments where one side of the bracket has one good player as a 1 seed, and all the other 1 seeds are put on the other side of the bracket because no one knows how seeding works.

Those things aren't good, but they aren't deliberate attempts. What occurred at this tournament was a 3rd party altering the bracket in both PM and Melee to fit their own expectations of "what's fair", systematically screwing over the people they decided not to help.



Edit:

I've been looking online try to find the results of the accident, but I have no idea what happened to the people in it or who it was. All I know at this point is that it involved 2 SUVs and it was cleared at approximately 1:06 p.m.

 

[MegaRobMan]

...that's realllllly bad lmao.

It's worse than the "pause" incident with Judo (I think, brawl sheik main) and Logic (iirc, Olimar main), when the sheik paused the game after hitting the Olimar and it said in the rulse that whoever paused it loses or some **** and the TO was pressured by people to "be cool to the local" and made them play a 1 stock match instead of following the rules. (I read all of the crap about how it was impossible for the Olimar to win after it he couldn't have DI'd it because of the windbox, it was crap, as a TO myself).

 

[sneakytako]

Tako, that's not how that usually works haha.

You don't tell people who are driving out of town to support your event that they cannot play because of something out of their own control. You continue moving forward as far as possible until they arrive. By the time we arrived there were only 2 matches played in my pool. I didn't end up bottelnecking my pool at all.

Imagine if Boss was driving from Maryland and was told "stopped traffic due to fatal accident? LOL too bad!"

Our situation was handled fine. The brackets and PM pools sound like it was FUBAR.

Dude, if Boss had gotten to the venue at 3PM because of an accident out of his control, he should be DQed from doubles. I mean, **** happens.

My pool was effectively finished (two non-important rounds to be played) and then they added Dr. X into the pool, eliminating Wii Snake who had previously been guaranteed 2nd seed.

This was because Dr. X, Drephen, and Vorheese were in the same pool and Dr. X decided that his pool was too hard (which that is a hard pool) and because only top 2 went out for some crazy freaking reason. The TOs solution was "I don't want Dr. X, Drephen, or Vorheese to potentially be screwed! Let's screw someone else instead!" and then removed someone from my pool who had already played their matches and replaced him with Dr. X.

Wii Snake was then eliminated, as he lost to Dr. X.

I went to Xivii and told him what had happened because that really wasn't fair to Wii Snake. This isn't a "my pool is hard' situation, this is a "You're guaranteed out" and us not recognizing there was another player who was going to simply replace one we had already both beaten. Xivii then allowed top 3 to advance from pools, so Wii Snake was entered in bracket. It was a good gesture to Wii Snake and the others who might have been sidelined by top 2 advance, but was a band-aid over a wound. The entire bracket for PM was changed because of it.

I'm not sure which TO decided to alter pools that were already almost done because they didn't like the outcome Whoever it was, it was honestly one of the worst TO decisions I have ever seen occur. It wasn't an honest mistake like "oops I made a hard pool" or "Oh, I didn't know this entire pool was made up from the same city" or "Wait, you guys LIVE together?" issue, but an actual case of bracket manipulation. Completely messed up and unprofessional.



For those of you wondering, the correct response to "Drephen, Vorheese, and Dr. X are in the same pool! One won't make it out!" is "I'm sorry the pools were poorly seeded, but given that the matches have already been played we can't alter the pools to help you. That would be unfair to the other players who are eliminated and aren't having their pools changed."

TOs make mistakes, it happens. I've been to tournaments where I have to play Kel in 2nd round singles, despite winning doubles with him prior to the bracket being seeded. I've been to tournaments where they accidentally advanced the wrong person from pools, and no one knew until it was two rounds in. I've been to tournaments where one side of the bracket has one good player as a 1 seed, and all the other 1 seeds are put on the other side of the bracket because no one knows how seeding works.

Those things aren't good, but they aren't deliberate attempts. What occurred at this tournament was a 3rd party altering the bracket in both PM and Melee to fit their own expectations of "what's fair", systematically screwing over the people they decided not to help.



Edit:

I've been looking online try to find the results of the accident, but I have no idea what happened to the people in it or who it was. All I know at this point is that it involved 2 SUVs and it was cleared at approximately 1:06 p.m.

Ok, I understand your position.

Here's some more info that I've heard from the grapevine.

First, Dr. X wasn't even in PM pools when it started, he was placed in a pool of 5 with voorheese after pools had already started because some quirk with registration he was not on the PM entry list.

Then, drephen was moved into the same pool after that apparently. I don't know how or why, but confirmation on this would be nice.

I'd like some more explanation from either drephen or the TOs to clear this up, so I don't have to make any assumptions.

 

[Wiisnake]

Almost forgot ggs to Sneaky, next time I'll get ya lol.

 

[sneakytako]

MM for first date Wiisnake?

 

[Xiivi]

Thoughts & apologies!

Spoiler

I feel we grew too used to the heat by playing in it over the summer ourselves; so it ended up being magnified some by two rooms packed with players and a particularly humid day making it probably the hottest its ever been.

I myself am not the contact with the church; so I was disappointed when both the menu given to us did not match what the actual prices were and that the church staff closed it so early. I was also surprised when the Fighting Game Community room upstairs had like no electrical outlets; I had seen them playing on all sides of the room before and didn't think we'd have so few.

Sadly what through me off from the start and ultimately led me to getting overwhelmed and making errors was that a couple of TOs either did not show at all or showed up late. Time I was hoping to sit down and prepare organizational stuff ended up becoming moving tables/chairs/tvs/etc... So I didn't really sit down until the line for registration came and was confronted with the fact that that upstairs room doesn't get the public wifi signal.

Melee Pool: There were more Louisville players than pools; so unfortunately some doubling up was going to occur. However Loquat was overlooked as being Louisville so there was actually a pool with three Louisville players. This was made known to me right at the start and I asked if any matches had been played by Wiisnake. He said no; and he was able to be moved to a pool where I had just crossed out KellyK (who I had been told was going to be late; then on time; then late again; then finally not coming at all).

PM Pool: I had asked a fellow TO to review the list of PM players for me. Unfortunately he missed some players; the error was not having another TO double-check the work. Two of those players happened to be ones who would have caused me to design pools differently. I was upstairs most of the time and the other TO went to put them in pools without really much seeding tought/balance. Dr. X came up to me and informed me and I asked the TO who was getting the missed players into pools to go and see if matches had been played; as I was stuck upstairs. Unforunately the purpose of my question was not communicated well as he moved players despite matches having already been played out by those players. I apologise for this and accomodated; although I do agree it was still only an accomodation for a glaring error.

The staggered circuit model for bracket promotion without pools was a poor one. But despite this, I did not alter what was planned and stuck to it; as changing it to make things fit better (such as changing the plan to everyone from circuit promotion to being the same seed) would have felt like manipulation in and of itself as it would be changing the plans because 'oh the people who showed up were better'. It was a poor model; but I had no intent of janking it around. It was what it was. I just went with one I had found; but yes it was unviable due to being skewed by attendance in circuit events allowing Voorhese to get a low seed in the promotion model. (He mentioned getting stuck playing Drephen second round; which actually could have still happened under a circuit model where all promotions are 1st seed and Drephen would have been a 2nd seed from getting 1st in a pool. Boo I suck at circuit; never again.)

Running a circuit for central Indy was not something I had planned; nor started up on my own. The central Indy community has generally been dead for all of forever and seeing the Salty Sundays TOs start to make it grow made me excited. I want the local scene here to have a place to play and enjoy the game; as well as be inspired to travel out of state, something which they really don't do. Many of the local events had been free and players weren't used to putting money on the line. A cheap every-other-week circuit was proposed and the TO group started it. I wanted to help; and it was said an established TO would be brought out for the main event. Sadly they did not get one and a big chunk of work fell on me as I did not want to see it fall through. I am definitely not an established TO; just someone who ran simple locals back in WNY for a while. Still I enjoyed the ethusiasm and effort from the TOs who really worked and cared; even with their mistakes and pitfalls. I also did work hard and bombed hard in areas too; so feel free to ding me as you have been doing for biting off more than I can chew. But my main hope from all of this is that the central Indiana community can finally be able to stand on its own as a smash hub as opposed to depending on the outer cities in the state for Indiana rep. I hope that playing matches with out of state players here makes them want to return the favour and go to more than just the bi-annual DtJ event (which is of course much better and done by people more competent than myself~).

Fun fact: After the event I had a nightmare that my credit score was dinged badly for running a bad tournament. So yeah I did feel like we underperformed; but I'm glad there are some positive comments! And Overswarm's critisms while displayed harshly are legit and have merit and should not be brushed aside. I will still buy him a quesidilla and then money match him for it.

I will get up results when I have time to set aside (I don't sadly; grant reviews and month-end for the company madness).

Closing:
Many thanks to those who work so hard for the Indiana community and also to everyone who came and dealt with the bull****.