Data Invincibility and armor list

[Masonomace]

So, Luigi player, Shulk's Monado arts, Decisive arts, and Hyper arts have a small intangibility frame window, not invincibility. I read your OP bit about invincibility and intangibility and I noticed you said that ZSS' Flip Jump still does the footstool animation?, Because Shulk's Monado art activation evades the Flip Jump but ZSS does her footstool animation.

Anyway, I can't officially say how much intangibility frames they have since I don't own a capture card device, but I want to say that the Monado art's intangibility starts on Frame 1 and ends on Frame 13. I'd rather want someone to prove me right or wrong though.

 

[David Viran]

So, Luigi player, Shulk's Monado arts, Decisive arts, and Hyper arts have a small intangibility frame window, not invincibility. I read your OP bit about invincibility and intangibility and I noticed you said that ZSS' Flip Jump still does the footstool animation?, Because Shulk's Monado art activation evades the Flip Jump but ZSS does her footstool animation.

Anyway, I can't officially say how much intangibility frames they have since I don't own a capture card device, but I want to say that the Monado art's intangibility starts on Frame 1 and ends on Frame 13. I'd rather want someone to prove me right or wrong though.

Zss's flip jump footstool properties are weird. It will automatically footstool off of most anything including intangibility but it won't disrupt other moves when the opponent is in the middle of them, ever because it's stupid.

 

[hillboy]

So do we know the amount of frames that one is invincible during an on stage tech?

 

[Winner-Bit]

As of the latest patch, Ganondorf's Reverse Neutral-B has the same super armor as his regular Neutral-B.

 

[Eternal Blue Syaoran]

I thought Rosalina had some sort of invincibility on her up smash. That's what I always hear people say (same for her up tilt on her head for no reason.)

Also, I heard Luma shot fully charged was invincible.

Am I mistaken for these?

 

[Luigi player]

Zss's flip jump footstool properties are weird. It will automatically footstool off of most anything including intangibility but it won't disrupt other moves when the opponent is in the middle of them, ever because it's stupid.

Well, just like any footstool.

So do we know the amount of frames that one is invincible during an on stage tech?

@Yikarur just told me it's 1-20 / 26 for most characters, with a few exceptions (Duck Hunt for example has 1-20 / 25).

As of the latest patch, Ganondorf's Reverse Neutral-B has the same super armor as his regular Neutral-B.

Yes I know, I'll gonna add these some time... just not sure if / how I'll make notes of how it was previously.

I thought Rosalina had some sort of invincibility on her up smash. That's what I always hear people say (same for her up tilt on her head for no reason.)

Also, I heard Luma shot fully charged was invincible.

Am I mistaken for these?

For invincible parts I was not sure about adding these here, though some I added that were from ingame hints. I can't really test these, but at Kuroganehammers site (http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/) they're listed!

Utilt (Rosalina) 9-17 (Head Intangible: 4-11)
Usmash (Rosalina) 8-16 (Head Intangible: 7-16)

 

[Masonomace]

Yo Luigi player giving ya an update:

Shulk neutralB 1: (Intangibility window is frame 1 - 14. FAF is 6.)

 

[Luigi player]

Yo Luigi player giving ya an update:

Shulk neutralB 1: (Intangibility window is frame 1 - 14. FAF is 6.)

Thanks, and for reminding me to do some unfinished stuff.

And about the ZSS' downB footstool. I have to correct myself: it behaves for the footstooled opponent just like normal footstools, but only in the air. On the ground ZSS can burry people even if they're in the middle of moves (so this is one of the reasons why the footstool is so annoying to deal with ._.).


Anyway, a few updates:


Characters:

Cloud: only with full limit: neutralB (10-17), sideB (6-11), upB (5-12,13?) - NEW
Game&Watch: upB (frames 5-13, startup until about half of upBs height), upsmash (frame 5-11) - NEW (upB frames)
Little Mac: sideB (grounded: frame 1-4, from 5 onward his legs are invincible until he attacks), upB (frame 1-3, hitbox frame 3) - NEW (upB endframe)
Luigi: upB (grounded: 8-10 (hitbox frame 8), aerial: 7-9 (hitbox frame 7)) - NEW (frames)
Marth/Lucina: upB (ground: frame 4-5, aerial: frame 1-5, strong hitbox frame 5) - NEW (endframes)
Megaman: uptilt (frames 5-7; hitbox starts at frame 6), upB (frames 6-11; first few frames after he jumps off of rushcoil) - mistake fixed (utilt intangibility frame 5-8 -> 5-7)
Ness: upB(2) (at the start of shooting himself: frame 1-9) - NEW (frames)
Pikachu: downB (intangible while getting hit by his own thunder [if not moving frames 34-44, strong hit frame 34-36]) - NEW (frames)
Pit/Dark Pit: upB (first few frames of the flight) ?? - not sure if true
Samus: upB (grounded: 3-6 (hitbox frame 5); aerial: 3-5 (hitbox frame 5)) - NEW (frames)
Shulk: neutralB (while activating a monado form (not instantly): frames 1-14; can act at frame 6) - NEW (frames)
Sonic: upsmash (frame 18-20, first hitbox frame 19), sideB (upon charge release: frame 1-6, hitbox starts frame 1), upB (frames 5-13, until he reached about half of upBs height) - NEW (frames)
Villager: neutralB (frames 5-23, while he tries to pocket something) - NEW (endframe)
Wii Fit Trainer: upsmash (frames 12-15, hitbox frame 14-15) - NEW (frames)
Zelda: neutralB (frames 5-12, hitbox frame 13) - NEW (frames)
Zero Suit Samus: downB (intangible frames 3-12) - NEW (frames)


Superarmor:

Ganondorf: neutralB (only if initiated on the ground: frames 11-66, hitbox on frame 70; B-reversed: frames 11-58, hitbox frame 80), sideB (only grounded, if he has someone in his grab (frame 17-40); if aerial and he has someone in his grab the opponent has superarmor (Ganon will freeze if the opponent is hit, if Ganondorf is hit he'll be knocked away)) - changes patch 1.1.3 (neutralB SA frames 11-62 -> 11-66; B-reverse now has SA too)


It should be correct, except for the few where a '?' is listed. Got kinda frustrated after I had to redo my new changes after I got logged out during editing and had to redo everything (also had to test some stuff again, because I wasn't sure about exact frames).

As for Clouds neutralB intangibility: I'm not sure, but it was always impossible to hit him with frame 17 moves. It could be because the beam blocked at frame 17, but I don't know for sure. Mewtwos dair hit him (latest hit frame 18). Palutenas frame 17 hitbox of dsmash never hit him (transcendent so the beam wouldn't block it), only the weak one which is after frame 17. Kuroganehammer has it as frame 10-16.

 

[Kofu]

Luigi player Game & Watch's USmash has his head invincible far longer into the move's animation. KuroganeHammer has it from frames 4-25 (the last frame of the hitbox) which means it's also invincible during charging (which seems to be the case fom my experience).

 

[Luigi player]

Luigi player Game & Watch's USmash has his head invincible far longer into the move's animation. KuroganeHammer has it from frames 4-25 (the last frame of the hitbox) which means it's also invincible during charging (which seems to be the case fom my experience).

Yeah, but it might just be the head, and as of now I didn't plan to add only partial invincibility parts (the ones noted are from ingame hints only I think), but I've thought about compiling a list (though I could really just copy the stuff from Kuroganehammers site, since I can't realistically do any testing myself).

 

[Kofu]

Yeah, but it might just be the head, and as of now I didn't plan to add only partial invincibility parts (the ones noted are from ingame hints only I think), but I've thought about compiling a list (though I could really just copy the stuff from Kuroganehammers site, since I can't realistically do any testing myself).

I don't think there are any frames where his whole body is invincible so if his USmash is included you should do it right!

 

[Luigi player]

I don't think there are any frames where his whole body is invincible so if his USmash is included you should do it right!

I've tested frame by frame and he blocked attacks on frames 5-11, that's why I listed them. If it's partial invincibility it's weird that it only works for these, but I'll look into it again...

... *testing* ...

So, he "blocks" even transcendent moves. Low ones like Zeldas dashattack, higher up ones like Zeldas jab (both hits (frame 11 and 13)).
He doesn't block Luigis fsmash (frame 12-13) from "normal" range, but if they're really close and face each other Luigis fsmash gets blocked.
He doesn't block Marios usmash (first hitbox behind his head; frame 9), but he blocks the hit in front of Mario (frame 10-12).

Well, it is partial invincibility then. Would be interesting to find out where exactly, probably the head and arms, and like only feet are vulnerable or something weird like that...

Luigis jab mostly goes through, but if they're really close it can get blocked too. His outsticking foot definitely blocks moves, maybe it's his outsticking foot and arm... Luigis dsmash first hit (6-7) doesn't get blocked when they're facing each other...
All this testing is kinda weird. He also blocks with his head behind him. Guess I can't really be sure with just testing and would need ingame files.

So that means Bowsers usmash and Palutenas dashattack and bair likely also only have partial invincibility like it always said. And it's just that for all of these (and GaWs usmash) it's difficult to hit the right places to overcome them. Though it's still weird that Bowser can eat up bob-ombs even from below, even if we say the hurtable part is inbetween the invincible parts and if he's hit there the move can't hit the hurtable parts anymore...
With GaWs usmash I also had written down that he once blocked a move while charging on my first testings, but I could never recreate it a while after for checking the move out again so I dismissed it as a mistake on my part. But if those frames (4-25) are true there will be some on his charging too. Just tested and he can block Zeldas jab even while charging.

Guess in the end all of these exact parts and how they work will stay as mysteries.

Thanks for clearing that up a bit, though, I'll change it up in the op.

 

[Kofu]

I've tested frame by frame and he blocked attacks on frames 5-11, that's why I listed them. If it's partial invincibility it's weird that it only works for these, but I'll look into it again...

... *testing* ...

So, he "blocks" even transcendent moves. Low ones like Zeldas dashattack, higher up ones like Zeldas jab (both hits (frame 11 and 13)).
He doesn't block Luigis fsmash (frame 12-13) from "normal" range, but if they're really close and face each other Luigis fsmash gets blocked.
He doesn't block Marios usmash (first hitbox behind his head; frame 9), but he blocks the hit in front of Mario (frame 10-12).

Well, it is partial invincibility then. Would be interesting to find out where exactly, probably the head and arms, and like only feet are vulnerable or something weird like that...

Luigis jab mostly goes through, but if they're really close it can get blocked too. His outsticking foot definitely blocks moves, maybe it's his outsticking foot and arm... Luigis dsmash first hit (6-7) doesn't get blocked when they're facing each other...
All this testing is kinda weird. He also blocks with his head behind him. Guess I can't really be sure with just testing and would need ingame files.

So that means Bowsers usmash and Palutenas dashattack and bair likely also only have partial invincibility like it always said. And it's just that for all of these (and GaWs usmash) it's difficult to hit the right places to overcome them. Though it's still weird that Bowser can eat up bob-ombs even from below, even if we say the hurtable part is inbetween the invincible parts and if he's hit there the move can't hit the hurtable parts anymore...
With GaWs usmash I also had written down that he once blocked a move while charging on my first testings, but I could never recreate it a while after for checking the move out again so I dismissed it as a mistake on my part. But if those frames (4-25) are true there will be some on his charging too. Just tested and he can block Zeldas jab even while charging.

Guess in the end all of these exact parts and how they work will stay as mysteries.

Thanks for clearing that up a bit, though, I'll change it up in the op.

Cool, glad I could help.

I think one of Palutena's dash attack/BAir has full invincibility, the other one is just partial. But I don't remember which.

 

[Lavani]

Bair is partial and dash attack is full, as far as I've been able to tell.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I've tested frame by frame and he blocked attacks on frames 5-11, that's why I listed them. If it's partial invincibility it's weird that it only works for these, but I'll look into it again...

... *testing* ...

So, he "blocks" even transcendent moves. Low ones like Zeldas dashattack, higher up ones like Zeldas jab (both hits (frame 11 and 13)).
He doesn't block Luigis fsmash (frame 12-13) from "normal" range, but if they're really close and face each other Luigis fsmash gets blocked.
He doesn't block Marios usmash (first hitbox behind his head; frame 9), but he blocks the hit in front of Mario (frame 10-12).

Well, it is partial invincibility then. Would be interesting to find out where exactly, probably the head and arms, and like only feet are vulnerable or something weird like that...

Luigis jab mostly goes through, but if they're really close it can get blocked too. His outsticking foot definitely blocks moves, maybe it's his outsticking foot and arm... Luigis dsmash first hit (6-7) doesn't get blocked when they're facing each other...
All this testing is kinda weird. He also blocks with his head behind him. Guess I can't really be sure with just testing and would need ingame files.

So that means Bowsers usmash and Palutenas dashattack and bair likely also only have partial invincibility like it always said. And it's just that for all of these (and GaWs usmash) it's difficult to hit the right places to overcome them. Though it's still weird that Bowser can eat up bob-ombs even from below, even if we say the hurtable part is inbetween the invincible parts and if he's hit there the move can't hit the hurtable parts anymore...
With GaWs usmash I also had written down that he once blocked a move while charging on my first testings, but I could never recreate it a while after for checking the move out again so I dismissed it as a mistake on my part. But if those frames (4-25) are true there will be some on his charging too. Just tested and he can block Zeldas jab even while charging.

Guess in the end all of these exact parts and how they work will stay as mysteries.

Thanks for clearing that up a bit, though, I'll change it up in the op.

[/IMG]

 

[Luigi player]

So going off Kurogamehammers data I've tested the frames myself and got this as new stuff:

Bayonettas Bat Within mechanic:

Spotdodge: 1-4 (intangible right after)
Airdodge: 1-4 (intangible right after)
Forward/backrolls: 3-5 (intangible right after, but vulnerable frames 1-2)
Witchtime: 17-29 (counters 5-21, intangible 5-16, duration is 44 frames)

Bat Within is basically Super Armor, except that the damage you take is halfed, and after you activated it once you're intangible (it does not last until you're able to act again)). Bayonetta can still be grabbed during the frames Bat Within would activate as long as it hasn't been activated already to grant her invincibility.

As for Corrin:

UpB: intangible frames 10-17 (stops when they start rising upwards, first hit frame 18)
Counter: intangible frames 6-7 (counters 7-29, duration is 63)

Counter doesn't activate if only hit at frame 6 (nothing happens if Mewtwo jabs and Corrin counters both at the same time), it can activate frames 7-29, granting hit-immunity until frame 29, except for grabs, who are able to get her during the whole time except frames 6-7 [this is the same for Shulk. Palutena and Lucario have even more invincibility during their counters (I guess I'll add them all in the OP, since it's different from actually countering and can be good to know since you can't grab them during these; though I'm not sure how I can test the intangibility for all of them since with grabs there are limited frame-ranges to test with and some aren't listed at Kuroganehammer)].

 

[Masonomace]

Hey is there invincibility data for throws yet? If not I have some that I was testing today for Shulk. It could be universal but I won't go that far to say it's true, as I've only played & tested it with Shulk.

Directional throw invincibility: 1-18 (for Shulk so far).

Even when your character's first hit of the throw is before frame 18, the hitlag retains the invincibility. So if I was Shulk using Fthrow in Training Mode with two Little Macs having one behind me & one in front of me, & had one use Jab1 at any point in the frame skips, I'd notice that even when the first hit of my Fthrow starts on frame 15, I still have invincibility on frame 18 when Little Mac Jabs me.

 

[Luigi player]

Hey is there invincibility data for throws yet? If not I have some that I was testing today for Shulk. It could be universal but I won't go that far to say it's true, as I've only played & tested it with Shulk.

Directional throw invincibility: 1-18 (for Shulk so far).

Even when your character's first hit of the throw is before frame 18, the hitlag retains the invincibility. So if I was Shulk using Fthrow in Training Mode with two Little Macs having one behind me & one in front of me, & had one use Jab1 at any point in the frame skips, I'd notice that even when the first hit of my Fthrow starts on frame 15, I still have invincibility on frame 18 when Little Mac Jabs me.

There wasn't any specific data before I think, or at least I didn't saw any.
Thanks for the headsup.

@Yikarur and me tested:

ALL of the following throws are 1-18 invincible:

Mario: fthrow, uthrow (didn't test the other 2)
Lucas: all
Mewtwo: all
Luigi: all
Yoshi: all
Pikachu: fthrow (didn't test others)

So it's likely that all throws are the same.

Gonna update the OP with this info.

Small note:
Luigis bthrow has its hitbox out before frame 19, so when I tried to hit him with a frame 19 move the attacker got hit before and Luigi didn't get hit (so I used a different frame 19 move with more range). It's very likely that the hitbox appears at frame 18, since Mewtwos fsmash effect already appeared (many effects appear 1 (or 2?) frames before the hitbox appears [annoyingly....]).

 

[Masonomace]

A slight edit change to Shulk's Neutral-B 1 to say:

Shulk: Neutral-B 1 (while a Monado art is activating (when stopping on an art, activates on frame 46): frames 1-14; can act on frame 6)

Also, more updates to Shulk's custom moves:
Intangibility
Shulk: Neutral-B 2 (while a Decisive art is activating (when stopping on an art, activates on frame 90): frames 1-14; can act on frame 6)
Shulk: Neutral-B 3 (while a Hyper art is activating (when stopping on an art, activates on frame 46): frames 1-14; can act on frame 6)

Heavy Armor
Yoshi: during his doublejump (frame 1-69)

 

[Masonomace]

Came back to give another update of what I labbed just now in Training Mode. Could use double confirmation.

Invincibility
Universal: Revival platform invincibility once you fall from it: frames 1-120. Frame 121 is the first frame you're vulnerable.

 

[drakeirving]

I can't confirm the frame count (an even two seconds sounds about right though), but I can definitely concur that you receive all the properties of invincibility after dropping. Additionally, it is extremely likely that from respawn until dropping from the platform, you retain intangibility.

 

[Masonomace]

So this is how Yoshi's Egg Lay goes in case anyone's interested / curious:

1. Egg Lay startup grabs on frame 21-24
   
2. Successful Egg Lay from Yoshi tongues you & goes through frame 25-44
3. You get pooped out as an egg on frame 45 thus the same frame your dealt damage

Invincibility
Yoshi: during a successful grab (frames 31-53; can act on frame 62)

EDIT:

This was already found on @Yikarur 's post, but posting the frame window here:

Invincibility
After hatching from Yoshi's egg: (frames 1-10; can act starting on frame 1 of the egg hatch)

 

[BlizzyWolf]

I've been playing in the past (I main Duck Hunt) and while returning to the stage I have been attacked and done neutral B (animation of bringing out the can) and been attacked at the same time but it has not sent me flying, it's inconsistent but I have not tested it.
Is there any info on this at all? I'm a little curious as I didn't see anything on the first page about it.

 

[Dusk Pit]

/ Up b: intangible frames 9-19
Aerial up b: intangible frames 14-19

 

[Masonomace]

/ Up b: intangible frames 9-19
Aerial up b: intangible frames 14-19

The grounded Up B for Pit I just labbed & check is correct. Nice job, 9-19 is neat. Aerial Up-B for Pit I just labbed however I got frame 15-19. Frame 14 of Aerial Up-B is vulnerable from my testing. And Dark Pit clocked out with the same results I got.

 

[Dusk Pit]

The grounded Up B for Pit I just labbed & check is correct. Nice job, 9-19 is neat. Aerial Up-B for Pit I just labbed however I got frame 15-19. Frame 14 of Aerial Up-B is vulnerable from my testing. And Dark Pit clocked out with the same results I got.

Yes, you are right, my b. It's frame 15-19 so 5 frames of intangibility.

 

[Masonomace]

Did some frame skipping to get these results, since I didn't notice anything for the frame windows in your OP Luigi player : D

Intangibility
Flying Slam Grounded command grab (frame 9-23).
Flying Slam Airborne command grab (frame 18-32).
Chomp exploding while eating an explosive (frame 3-18).

- during the 'jump/fall' of a shieldbreak

I was curious about this one, so I labbed up to five characters to see if anything similar would come up. Needless to say I labbed Shulk at first because boredom & the thought of discovering Shulk's Shieldbreak air times:

Vanilla, Speed, & Shield: 69 frames, lands on frame 70. Intangible on frame 1-126
Jump: 51 frames, lands on frame 52. Intangible on frame 1-108

Other characters:
: 59 frames, lands on frame 60. Intangible from frame 1-116
: 70 frames, lands on frame 71. Intangible from frame 1-127
: 63 frames, lands on frame 64. Intangible from frame 1-120
: 72 frames, lands on frame 73. Intangible from frame 1-129

The point to labbing Ike Marth Kirby & Falco was simple. I wanted to lab Ike & Marth because I wanted to see other swordsman to compare to Shulk. However, Kirby & Falco were chosen because this google doc shows a column that mentions Shield Break Velocity, & Kirby happened to be the lowest value whereas Falco had the highest Value.

But the real point to labbing it was to try finding a pattern, in which yes there is one. From these five characters, it's clear that on the first frame they land, this marks frame 1 out of the 57 total frames they have intangibility. So with more testing, we might be able to confirm that "during the 'jump'fall' of a shieldbreak can say something like, "during the jump/fall & 57 frames of intangibility upon wakeup".

There also seems to be invincibility or some kind of shield-stun invincibility proc when you break a shield with a strong move. Trying to hit the shield-broken character with Little Mac frame-1 Jab1 during the shield-stun or shield-break hitlag(?) seems to show that they have invincibility. More can be looked into or perhaps someone has already known about this & explained it better than I have.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Luigi player earlier in this thread I saw you mention something about Lucario's invincibility frames. Did you find anything on activated Double Team? Activated Double Team loses to Mega Man's FSmash at a certain point, hoping someone might know when our invincibility ends. Thank you.

 

[Masonomace]

Luigi player earlier in this thread I saw you mention something about Lucario's invincibility frames. Did you find anything on activated Double Team? Activated Double Team loses to Mega Man's FSmash at a certain point, hoping someone might know when our invincibility ends. Thank you.

I'll lab this when I get home!

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I'll lab this when I get home!

Have you had any luck?

How do you guys even go about testing stuff like this? I'm also curious about Reverse Double Team.

 

[Masonomace]

Some more Intangibility labbing:

Oil Panic:
Partial-bucket filling (frame 2-25).
[Note: Oil Panic will still absorb on frame 1, but like I mentioned, it won't have intangibility until frame 2. Once a bucket unit is filled, G&W can act on frame 75 if he chooses to let go of the bucket hold.]

Full-Filled bucket, when three units or the third unit becomes filled (frame 2-25).
[However, the full-filled bucket has much less endlag. 38 Total Frames aka a FAF of 39.]

The Oil Panic attack (frame 1-6).
[The hitbox listed on KH is frame 2-7.]


Some new Intangibility info about Lucario, you'll like this MythTrainerInfinity :

Double Team (Reversed or not):
For starters lets review the one thing Kurogane Hammer has, the counterattack which doesn't list if it's grounded or airborne. Although, the answer is grounded because Lucario can't really go into an airborne animation for a regular or reversed DT until frame 40 or so. So as long as Lucario is airborne before frame 40 or 41, he'll enter a slightly different animation riding the waves man!.

Grounded counterattack hitbox is frame 28-39. Intangibility window is frame 28-35 but technically I guess you can say the first intangibility window is frame 1-35 if you include Lucario starting to vanish.

A gap of vulnerability resides within frame 36-39, which is followed by a second intangibility window. However this second intangibility window varies on whether you're grounded or airborne. Grounded DT intangibility window is frame 40-68 for both the regular & reversed. Ground to Air DT being airborne for the latter has an intangibility window of frame 40-60 for both the regular & reversed. It's not recorded, but the Ground to Air endlag for DT is 70 Total Frames, acting on frame 71 for both the regular & reversed.

TL;DR
Grounded DT hitbox window: frame 28-39
Grounded DT first intangibility window: frame 28-35 OR frame 1-35 [whatever]
Grounded DT second intangibility window: frame 40-68 [KH is correct in that you can act on frame 61 if you want]
Airborne DT second intangibility window: frame 40-60
Airborne DT endlag: 70 Total Frames / FAF 71
-
What I didn't lab:

• The Airborne DT's hitbox window & first intangibility window [could be the same as the grounded DT regular & reversed].

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Some more Intangibility labbing:

Oil Panic:
Partial-bucket filling (frame 2-25).
[Note: Oil Panic will still absorb on frame 1, but like I mentioned, it won't have intangibility until frame 2. Once a bucket unit is filled, G&W can act on frame 75 if he chooses to let go of the bucket hold.]

Full-Filled bucket, when three units or the third unit becomes filled (frame 2-25).
[However, the full-filled bucket has much less endlag. 38 Total Frames aka a FAF of 39.]

The Oil Panic attack (frame 1-6).
[The hitbox listed on KH is frame 2-7.]


Some new Intangibility info about Lucario, you'll like this MythTrainerInfinity :

Double Team (Reversed or not):
For starters lets review the one thing Kurogane Hammer has, the counterattack which doesn't list if it's grounded or airborne. Although, the answer is grounded because Lucario can't really go into an airborne animation for a regular or reversed DT until frame 40 or so. So as long as Lucario is airborne before frame 40 or 41, he'll enter a slightly different animation riding the waves man!.

Grounded counterattack hitbox is frame 28-39. Intangibility window is frame 28-35 but technically I guess you can say the first intangibility window is frame 1-35 if you include Lucario starting to vanish.

A gap of vulnerability resides within frame 36-39, which is followed by a second intangibility window. However this second intangibility window varies on whether you're grounded or airborne. Grounded DT intangibility window is frame 40-68 for both the regular & reversed. Ground to Air DT being airborne for the latter has an intangibility window of frame 40-60 for both the regular & reversed. It's not recorded, but the Ground to Air endlag for DT is 70 Total Frames, acting on frame 71 for both the regular & reversed.

TL;DR
Grounded DT hitbox window: frame 28-39
Grounded DT first intangibility window: frame 28-35 OR frame 1-35 [whatever]
Grounded DT second intangibility window: frame 40-68 [KH is correct in that you can act on frame 61 if you want]
Airborne DT second intangibility window: frame 40-60
Airborne DT endlag: 70 Total Frames / FAF 71
-
What I didn't lab:

• The Airborne DT's hitbox window & first intangibility window [could be the same as the grounded DT regular & reversed].

Nice work, man! I have no words how much I appreciate it.

I have one last question... When you can act on grounded frame 61, do we retain our invincibility for 7 more frames? If so... Attempting a Force Palm grab on frame 61 is only vulnerable on the frame it comes out.

 

[Masonomace]

Nice work, man! I have no words how much I appreciate it.

I have one last question... When you can act on grounded frame 61, do we retain our invincibility for 7 more frames? If so... Attempting a Force Palm grab on frame 61 is only vulnerable on the frame it comes out.

It goes exactly like how Shulk's Monado arts work. When Shulk's art activates on frame 46 being cycled to, this becomes the first frame of intangibility & he can have frame 1-14 intangibility if he chooses to do nothing but acts no sooner than frame 6. But like Lucario, if Shulk or Lucario act with an input during the leftover intangibility window, the intangibility vanishes & you're now vulnerable. So on frame 61, acting with FP startup will make you vulnerable on frame 61. I can show you images frame-by-frame of Lucario's leftover intangibility someday if you like.

I'll lab the outcome of Ground to Air to Ground DT intangibility & see if it's any different. Custom stages here we go!

EDIT: Yep, if Lucario DTs on a platform, flies through the air but then lands on the floor beside a exploding Smart Bomb, he'd land somewhere around frame 55 in my distance-specific labbing scenario, & retain intangibility until frame 68 then being vulnerable on frame 69. Smart Bombs are unblockable so it didn't matter if I held shield or not, but I could still act on frame 61 since I landed before frame 61.

 

[Game7a1]

Some more Intangibility labbing:

Oil Panic:
Partial-bucket filling (frame 2-25).
[Note: Oil Panic will still absorb on frame 1, but like I mentioned, it won't have intangibility until frame 2. Once a bucket unit is filled, G&W can act on frame 75 if he chooses to let go of the bucket hold.]

Is this frame data for 1 or 2 levels of bucket filling? Or are they both the same? I feel like, after doing some quick testing, they are (I originally thought getting 2 levels was slower than getting 1 level).

 

[Masonomace]

Is this frame data for 1 or 2 levels of bucket filling? Or are they both the same? I feel like, after doing some quick testing, they are (I originally thought getting 2 levels was slower than getting 1 level).

I think they were the same when I recall testing 1 & 2 units filled.

 

[Masonomace]

So Luigi player , I guess apparently Little Mac's %-based heavy armor for his Straight Lunge requires the move to be about ~8.05% or more to break it. And the duration of said heavy armor from brief lab testing had me come to the notion that it can last at least from frame 1-123 or 124. It could be longer for all I know right now, but yeah weird stuff.

Hint: Little Mac's Dtilt dealing 8% couldn't break it, but Shield Shulk's Dash attack dealing 8.05% in Training Mode sure can. (???)

 

[Luigi player]

/ Up b: intangible frames 9-19
Aerial up b: intangible frames 14-19

The grounded Up B for Pit I just labbed & check is correct. Nice job, 9-19 is neat. Aerial Up-B for Pit I just labbed however I got frame 15-19. Frame 14 of Aerial Up-B is vulnerable from my testing. And Dark Pit clocked out with the same results I got.

Oh, finally confirmation on these, thanks!

Did some frame skipping to get these results, since I didn't notice anything for the frame windows in your OP Luigi player : D

Intangibility
Flying Slam Grounded command grab (frame 9-23).
Flying Slam Airborne command grab (frame 18-32).
Chomp exploding while eating an explosive (frame 3-18).

Cool!

I was curious about this one, so I labbed up to five characters to see if anything similar would come up. Needless to say I labbed Shulk at first because boredom & the thought of discovering Shulk's Shieldbreak air times:

Vanilla, Speed, & Shield: 69 frames, lands on frame 70. Intangible on frame 1-126
Jump: 51 frames, lands on frame 52. Intangible on frame 1-108

Other characters:
: 59 frames, lands on frame 60. Intangible from frame 1-116
: 70 frames, lands on frame 71. Intangible from frame 1-127
: 63 frames, lands on frame 64. Intangible from frame 1-120
: 72 frames, lands on frame 73. Intangible from frame 1-129

The point to labbing Ike Marth Kirby & Falco was simple. I wanted to lab Ike & Marth because I wanted to see other swordsman to compare to Shulk. However, Kirby & Falco were chosen because this google doc shows a column that mentions Shield Break Velocity, & Kirby happened to be the lowest value whereas Falco had the highest Value.

But the real point to labbing it was to try finding a pattern, in which yes there is one. From these five characters, it's clear that on the first frame they land, this marks frame 1 out of the 57 total frames they have intangibility. So with more testing, we might be able to confirm that "during the 'jump'fall' of a shieldbreak can say something like, "during the jump/fall & 57 frames of intangibility upon wakeup".

There also seems to be invincibility or some kind of shield-stun invincibility proc when you break a shield with a strong move. Trying to hit the shield-broken character with Little Mac frame-1 Jab1 during the shield-stun or shield-break hitlag(?) seems to show that they have invincibility. More can be looked into or perhaps someone has already known about this & explained it better than I have.

Interesting. The time of invincibility should be dependant on the % of the character, since he can get out of a shieldbreak animation faster the more % he has. Since it's not always the same I don't think I'll list it here, and it should be assumed it's from frame 1 anyway, imo. And being midair should be easy enough to be seen and isn't fixed anyway (if they're moved away from the ground or the ground moved / disappeared below them).

Some more Intangibility labbing:

Oil Panic:
Partial-bucket filling (frame 2-25).
[Note: Oil Panic will still absorb on frame 1, but like I mentioned, it won't have intangibility until frame 2. Once a bucket unit is filled, G&W can act on frame 75 if he chooses to let go of the bucket hold.]

Full-Filled bucket, when three units or the third unit becomes filled (frame 2-25).
[However, the full-filled bucket has much less endlag. 38 Total Frames aka a FAF of 39.]

The Oil Panic attack (frame 1-6).
[The hitbox listed on KH is frame 2-7.]


Some new Intangibility info about Lucario, you'll like this MythTrainerInfinity :

Double Team (Reversed or not):
For starters lets review the one thing Kurogane Hammer has, the counterattack which doesn't list if it's grounded or airborne. Although, the answer is grounded because Lucario can't really go into an airborne animation for a regular or reversed DT until frame 40 or so. So as long as Lucario is airborne before frame 40 or 41, he'll enter a slightly different animation riding the waves man!.

Grounded counterattack hitbox is frame 28-39. Intangibility window is frame 28-35 but technically I guess you can say the first intangibility window is frame 1-35 if you include Lucario starting to vanish.

A gap of vulnerability resides within frame 36-39, which is followed by a second intangibility window. However this second intangibility window varies on whether you're grounded or airborne. Grounded DT intangibility window is frame 40-68 for both the regular & reversed. Ground to Air DT being airborne for the latter has an intangibility window of frame 40-60 for both the regular & reversed. It's not recorded, but the Ground to Air endlag for DT is 70 Total Frames, acting on frame 71 for both the regular & reversed.

TL;DR
Grounded DT hitbox window: frame 28-39
Grounded DT first intangibility window: frame 28-35 OR frame 1-35 [whatever]
Grounded DT second intangibility window: frame 40-68 [KH is correct in that you can act on frame 61 if you want]
Airborne DT second intangibility window: frame 40-60
Airborne DT endlag: 70 Total Frames / FAF 71
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What I didn't lab:

• The Airborne DT's hitbox window & first intangibility window [could be the same as the grounded DT regular & reversed].

I don't think I fully understand this. So Lucario will counter moves from frame 1-35 (probably not)? Or did you always assume he got hit and it's just for the counterattack? The 2nd window only happens if he did counter something I guess, what happened in the meantime? He just vanishes or can he be hit inbetween?

So Luigi player , I guess apparently Little Mac's %-based heavy armor for his Straight Lunge requires the move to be about ~8.05% or more to break it. And the duration of said heavy armor from brief lab testing had me come to the notion that it can last at least from frame 1-123 or 124. It could be longer for all I know right now, but yeah weird stuff.

Hint: Little Mac's Dtilt dealing 8% couldn't break it, but Shield Shulk's Dash attack dealing 8.05% in Training Mode sure can. (???)

Interesting, thanks for testing this more accurately.

Thanks for all your testing! I've added most of it to the OP now (not the shieldbreak stuff (since the numbers can differ and being airborne can be seen by the players anyway), and also not the counter specific stuff for now).

 

[Masonomace]

Interesting. The time of invincibility should be dependant on the % of the character, since he can get out of a shieldbreak animation faster the more % he has. Since it's not always the same I don't think I'll list it here, and it should be assumed it's from frame 1 anyway, imo. And being midair should be easy enough to be seen and isn't fixed anyway (if they're moved away from the ground or the ground moved / disappeared below them).

Actually, I just re-labbed it & turns out that the intangible window of a shield-break is the same regardless of percent. Even when tested in VS Mode or Training Mode in case of a difference (I'm looking at you Star spit), one at 300% or 999% & another at 0% have the exact same amount of intangibility. So the percent just matters on how fast you act out of said shield-break. I would list it at least, but again I don't know how the intangible frame data should be worded. . .

I don't think I fully understand this. So Lucario will counter moves from frame 1-35 (probably not)? Or did you always assume he got hit and it's just for the counterattack? The 2nd window only happens if he did counter something I guess, what happened in the meantime? He just vanishes or can he be hit inbetween?

Nah for the first question, but yes for the second question . 's Double Team counter stance is intangible from frame 5-39 & the counter frames are also from frame 5-39 as seen on Kurogane. The moment you activate his DT counterattack however, it's frame 1-35 for the first window, & frame 40-68 (ground) or from frame 40-60 (air) for the second window. And yeah there's a gap of vulnerability during the DT counterattack, so your last question asking the latter if he can be hit in-between is a yes he can be. This vulnerable window is from frame 36-39.

 

[Luigi player]

Actually, I just re-labbed it & turns out that the intangible window of a shield-break is the same regardless of percent. Even when tested in VS Mode or Training Mode in case of a difference (I'm looking at you Star spit), one at 300% or 999% & another at 0% have the exact same amount of intangibility. So the percent just matters on how fast you act out of said shield-break. I would list it at least, but again I don't know how the intangible frame data should be worded. . .

Oh, whoops.. guess I had a total brainfart there, of course the landing and trying to break out of the shieldbreak isn't intangible. ^^"
But at the first part (wake up) it is, and 57 frames - got it, sorry lol. That should be listed then.

Nah for the first question, but yes for the second question . 's Double Team counter stance is intangible from frame 5-39 & the counter frames are also from frame 5-39 as seen on Kurogane. The moment you activate his DT counterattack however, it's frame 1-35 for the first window, & frame 40-68 (ground) or from frame 40-60 (air) for the second window. And yeah there's a gap of vulnerability during the DT counterattack, so your last question asking the latter if he can be hit in-between is a yes he can be. This vulnerable window is from frame 36-39.

Ah I see, makes sense then. Maybe I could include a counter-section, since it's kinda its own thing. But for now we only have Lucarios data anyway.

 

[Masonomace]

Yeah. I don't know if you wanna add the intangibility during the airtime happening immediately after the shield-break since that's character-specific, but otherwise yup 57 frames of wake-up intangibility sounds good!
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I might tackle other entries listed, like the Inhale stuff etc.. We'll see.