Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

[Opossum]

This all starts...with a story.

Some people really don't know what they've had until it's gone. Many feel the same way about this adorable duo. I, though, had a much stronger personal connection to them. Unlike most, I knew them before Smash Bros. I had played their game when I was very young. A friend of my father had a few old arcade machines, and let me play them sometimes. I remember he had three: Mario Bros., Pac-Man, and Ice Climber. I was drawn to the latter. I'd completely forgotten about this until years later when I discovered Smash Bros. I saw them, and suddenly I was drowned by nostalgia. They'd been brought back.

I had hoped that someday they'd get a new game. A mountain-climbing adventure game with side quests, weather conditions, and scary wildlife. That day never came, sadly. They'd been forgotten, but at least not by Smash Bros. There, they'd live on. Forever.

Brawl came out, and it was an exciting time. To my surprise, quite a number of people were calling for the Climbers to be cut. "Irrelevant!" they'd say. "Unknown!" they'd chant. But I never let it get me down. Sakurai cared enough to bring them back from obscurity once, so I was sure he'd do it again. And he did! Sure, they were revealed much later than most characters. In fact, if I remember correctly, they were the third to last character revealed pre-release, with only Sheik and Olimar following. They looked beautiful, too. Brawl was quite the graphical update.

I never could effectively chain grab or wobble, but I never let that get me down. I just enjoyed playing as them. I started speculating for Smash 4 hardcore around early 2011, joining Smashboards in August. The 3DS came out, and on its Virtual Console, the first thing I did was download Ice Climber. It was the perfect game on the go. Life was good again. These days, those who called for the Climbers to be cut were near impossible to find. Many loved these little mountaineers. I was overjoyed to see others feel the way I did. I started speculating new Ice Climber stages, how some moves could be improved, thoughts to fix the chaingrab issue, and many other things. I was overjoyed to hear that soon their little fuzzy parkas would shine in brilliant HD.

The first trailer was shown, and everyone was blown away. Slowly, more and more characters were revealed. The Ice Climbers weren't shown right away, but hey, we still had time. They'd make it. They were guaranteed. Even if several anniversaries were missed, along with NES Remix.

The April Direct brought about the announcement of Smash Run. In it, I was overjoyed to see the Polar Bear take part in Smash Run as an enemy. This virtually confirmed the Ice Climbers! Why else would they bring back the Polar Bear?

Months pass. Still no Ice Climbers. I figure they'll again be among the last revealed. It happened in Brawl, I told myself. Late in the summer, a cryptic leak came about. You all know the one. It was text based. In it, they claimed the Ice Climbers were cut. While the information seemed believable, I didn't buy it. It was simply because they weren't in the build they saw. They likely still had some of those pesky "technical issues" to take care of on the 3DS. Sakurai wouldn't forsake them...would he?

Next comes late August. The leak now had picture evidence from the ESRB. It showed the roster. The Ice Climbers were nowhere to be found. Filled with despair, there was one last bit of hope I held on to. The lock. As a moderator, locks were part of my daily life. Now things just got meta. The lock meant some characters weren't unlocked!

Shulk was then shown to be exactly as the leak showed. This wasn't good. Eventually, we come to September 11th. The street date for Smash 3DS in Japan is broken. Tension stirs. Sadly, when the "All Characters Unlocked" message appears, the Ice Climbers are nowhere to be found. The Polar Bear's trophy has the Smash Bros. Symbol, instead of an eggplant. Hope was gone.

The Ice Climbers are without a doubt the most tragic loss. They had been reborn through Smash. They had been a staple in the series for thirteen long years. Now they're gone, likely through the 3DS limitations. They lost the only thing they had keeping them alive: Smash Bros.

Their only hope, no matter how slim now, is if they are on the Wii U version's starting roster, and are free 3DS DLC when Sakurai and his team figure out how to solve their issues. They'd do that for them. Sakurai wouldn't abandon them, would he? Right?

I'll preface by saying that I cannot draw. Given the circumstances, however, I doodled a thing.

Pardon my awful drawing and handwriting.



Rest in peace, Nana and Popo. Yours was truly the most devastating loss.

This was written the day the final roster was revealed. As expected, the 3DS version kept them out. And they were so close. A crowd chant, a Polar Bear, and being able to run on the Wii U...all for naught. Game over.

...But today, they've gained an extra life.

Today, Sakurai showed that DLC is possible. Mewtwo will be joining the battle in Spring of 2015.

But what does this mean for the Ice Climbers? Only good things. Allow me to explain.

1. They are likely the most completed characters not in the final game. Based on what we know, these guys were FAR in development. Sakurai said they ran completely fine on the Wii U (guess 8 Player wasn't an issue :D ).
2. They now have time. Going by what Sakurai said, he didn't work around their issue with a lot of effort due to them being irrelevant and not worth it, essentially. Other characters had to be made first. But now those characters are made. There is now a team working on Mewtwo until Spring. In some of the spare time, they can allocate resources to finding a fix for the Ice Climbers. There's no one else, barring Mewtwo, ahead of them after all. And the groundwork is already laid.
3. Somewhat minor, but Mewtwo shows that veterans with only trophies can indeed be DLC.

So it's time to join in and climb one last mountain together as Ice Climber fans. Let's join our Arctic Amigos, our Blizzard-bound Buddies, our Frozen friends...and bring them home once again. Smash is all they have, after all. Let's not let them lose that.

 

[Walbytamer11]

I want to be able to

Spoiler

wobble

everyone flawlessly this time around.

 

[DeLux]

I honestly hope they don't bring ICs back to the next installment. There's been so many "problems" with them over two games, that it might be a good idea to scrap them entirely.

Or give EVERYONE the option of playing as two characters at once :D :D :D

 

[Get Low]

Honestly, I didn't think they were going to make it into Brawl, but they did.
I think they have a shot of not making it to Smash 4, which would be nice considering that everyone hates them besides the people that main them.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I neither main, nor hate them.

You could even say I enjoy them.

What an anomaly I am.

 

[RedGamer]

infinate chain grabability? I smell a difference.

 

[Curious Villager]

Nah I like the Ice Climbers, I find them really fun to play as and their unique too. Just make Nana (or Popo if you're playing as Nana) a little less dumb and try to make their difficulty level adapt to your skill level if that's possible and they should hopefully be fine.

I hope they don't get rid of them. :/

 

[RedGamer]

you are awesome and right about that. but what if you could control nana with the alternate stick (i.e. c-stick for gamecube, right stick wii classic controller) without having to desync?

 

[SuperMetroid44]

I see no reason to simply remove completely original characters. I hope to see them return in the next installment.

 

[Retroend]

no dont remove them. just removing their freakin chain grab!

 

[Kink-Link5]

Removing Nana's grab, forcing her to U-throw, or having her throw in actually pseudo-random directions instead of throwing toward a ledge if she's close enough to one as in melee, would be the easiest solutions to the problem.

 

[RedGamer]

Removing Nana's grab, forcing her to U-throw, or having her throw in actually pseudo-random directions instead of throwing toward a ledge if she's close enough to one as in melee, would be the easiest solutions to the problem.

If the game developers force nana to u-throw, wouldn't that make the throw predictable and thus rendering yet an easier chainthrow?

 

[dettadeus]

Explain to me how you chaingrab off of Nana's U-throw.

 

[Bowserlick]

Removing Nana's grab, forcing her to U-throw, or having her throw in actually pseudo-random directions instead of throwing toward a ledge if she's close enough to one as in melee, would be the easiest solutions to the problem.

Nice solutions. Chain grabbing should be removed in every character. This is a creative way of solving the chain grab situation unique to the ice climbers. No need to remove them. They have an interesting mechanic.

 

[RedGamer]

Explain to me how you chaingrab off of Nana's U-throw.

the u-throw is my ideal for chaingrabbing because at low %, it's harder to escape.

Am I correct? or did I get something wrong...again?

 

[dettadeus]

Unless we have Melee physics (or footstooling) U-throw is basically impossible to chaingrab from.
And nobody u-throw hobbles anyways.

If it was D-throw that might be a different story, but with U-Throw, the opponent is first able to be grabbed again when they are out of your grab range.

 

[Life]

Teamwork is kind of the Climbers' thing. I see no reason to remove their chaingrabbing.

Bugs versus features.

 

[yoshi8984]

I'd like to see them come back, but I just wish that Popo's attacks weren't horrible alone. I'm not saying to make Popo strong to the point where he doesn't need Nana, but don't make him nearly useless when he's alone/seperated =P

Also I want chaingrabbing to be removed

 

[Kink-Link5]

Teamwork is kind of the Climbers' thing. I see no reason to remove their chaingrabbing.

Bugs versus features.

Hand-offs are mad buggy.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The thing that people need to remember is that the Ice Climbers do not have a good reach with their grabs. So even if their grab game is lethal, it's much harder to pull off than for the likes of Dedede, who has a much better grab range.

 

[dettadeus]

Although that's kind of a moot point in Brawl since they have so many guaranteed setups into grabs with various aspects of their desync game, but yes, their grab range is terrible.
Your hurtbox basically has to overlap with the opponent's to actually grab them. Or with a really well-spaced pivot grab, which still has terrible range.

 

[RedGamer]

Unless we have Melee physics (or footstooling) U-throw is basically impossible to chaingrab from.
And nobody u-throw hobbles anyways.

If it was D-throw that might be a different story, but with U-Throw, the opponent is first able to be grabbed again when they are out of your grab range.

I'm not talking about brawl physics, I meant re-grab as they're coming down.

 

[dettadeus]

In which case it would only work on fast fallers like Fox.

Which is nothing new, considering even Pichu had an U-throw chaingrab on spacies in Melee.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think the chain grab should be turned into a vortex. Is anyone familiar with Milia Rage?

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Didn't notic this thread :/.


ICs better come back and hopefully they will keep there CG infinite.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I hope they come back as a character that relies on more than one gimmick.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

I think it would be a good idea if you grab Nana, Popo can still attack, but if you grab Popo though, Nana shouldn't be able to attack. Also, chain-grabs must be banished and Popo needs more solo strength as others have said.

 

[BlueXenon]

Ice Climbers are important because they help you learn how to avoid getting grabbed. This can be very useful for people who main characters that have to avoid grabs.

 

[Ussi]

I hope i never see them again

 

[Opossum]

Hope all you want, but they're likely to come back. They've been in two games already, and have a unique playstyle in Sakurai's eyes.


I just hope they rely less on the chaingrab, and perhaps make the Down B a bit more useful.

 

[Akenero]

I like The IC's but I am pretty sure they're not going to make it,at least,not without much popularity which I don't hear them getting considering they have only 1 game to their own selves,which is an NES game,I just don't see it.I'd love to see them in,I love these two's playstyles and how they work together,just the "all or nothing" way of fighting,with how you think 'If Nana/Popo dies,I really have to play my best to try to KO the opponent another time,or I'll have to just get in some damage before he/she (possibly) KO's me.'(that's how I think)

I've thought about having them as my main, many times.I do actually consider them as a sub-main.I know nothing about the guard frames,or whatever technical things about them that makes them some of the worst characters in competitive play,I just care about"are they fun to play as"

 

[John12346]

You people are nuts if you think CG infinites need to return. It's an obvious bug that wasn't intended for gameplay, it just happened to be there. I mean, I'm fine that people use it and all in Brawl, y'know, play to win, but problems like these aren't meant to be carried over to later generations, no matter how much they can cause one to "learn" at an accelerated rate by playing against them >___>

Anyway, there are plenty of ways to make it so infinites are moot:
- Nana can't grab nor footstool anyone
- Nana throws in a random direction immediately after grabbing someone
- When Nana throws someone, they become frozen and hence ungrabbable(ala Brawl Minus)

among a few others.

 

[dettadeus]

Out of the three ideas you listed, I think the third would probably be the best.

I'd be willing to bet footstooling won't even be in the next game, and if it was, I think everyone would agree it'd work best like in P:M where you actually have to press a different button for it to happen.

 

[Big-Cat]

They can also make a change to throws where you cannot grab a mid-air opponent regardless of the circumstance.

 

[dettadeus]

That would be a nerf for every character just to "fix" one. And people would just figure out how to force their opponents onto the ground between grabs anyways.

 

[t!MmY]

If Ice Climber's chain-grabs were not intended then the developers would have made it so that characters in HitStun would not be able to be grabbed. It's a possibility that they wanted Popo to toss someone to Nana and then hit them with a Smash attack but ended up allowing for looped grabs instead. XD

 

[Big-Cat]

That would be a nerf for every character just to "fix" one. And people would just figure out how to force their opponents onto the ground between grabs anyways.

Whatever, chain grabs are dumb IMO.

 

[dettadeus]

As dumb as chaingrabbing may be, removing the ability to grab airborne opponents is a bad fix. If Kirby hit your shield with a badly spaced rising Bair, you wouldn't be able to shieldgrab him to punish.
So in a way, it would be a nerf for a lot of characters and a buff for a few.

 

[Big-Cat]

Then, adjust the blockstun on the attack or something. Look beyond what Brawl offers and explore other possibilities.

Think big picture. Seriously though, I think Smash Bros. is in need of a serious revamp. Namco coming on board might be the best thing to happen to this series.

 

[dettadeus]

We don't need to think big picture if the problem is only with one character.
Chaingrabbing in some form is basically unavoidable unless we went back to SSB64 throws or something. Or gave all throws a high enough amount of base knockback that they can only combo into certain attacks, but never another grab.
Even then, characters like Fox would still be a problem because they just fall that fast.

Taking it away when it would be completely broken is ok, but sometimes it's like, the only chance a character has in a matchup (Pichu vs Fox).